Cloak is ridiculous

AgentCrayon

It shouldn't be allowed to be cast during combat IMO, or at least make it so if they are hit by a stray swing or arrow they come visible again. Honestly it's like NBs can hop into battle whenever they wish, then when it gets too much put the cloak and and wait for an another opertunity.

It's the most unfair thing I've come across

VoiDGhOs7

Indeed a nerf is needed.

cosack_falx

reroll an NB then!

_Proteus_

It's this thread again! I wonder what happens if you gap close a NB and then use an aoe. Or use a detect pot. Or throw down caltrops on top of where the NB was a second ago. Or use radiant magelight and then keep gap closing on them once they come out of stealth.

GuyNamedSean

_Proteus_ wrote: »

It's this thread again! I wonder what happens if you gap close a NB and then use an aoe. Or use a detect pot. Or throw down caltrops on top of where the NB was a second ago. Or use radiant magelight and then keep gap closing on them once they come out of stealth.

Absolutely. It's ridiculously easy to counter stealth and they longer they stay under the radar, the less magicka they'll have left when they pop back up.

Alucardo

Shouldn't be allowed to be cast during combat? Lol then what's the point of cloak when it uses less resources to sneak? You get hit by a firepot and try to purge it using cloak, but wait.. you're in combat. So that morph becomes useless.
The whole idea of a stealth class with little to no defence is that they can indeed pick their fights. They don't have shields, wards, self heals, nothing. Just cloak.
I don't even even play Nightblade any more, but think that removing/nerfing cloak is a terrible idea. Though if you really want to screw them over in a more valid way without any nerfs, give Fighter's guild or some general tree a variation of Piercing Mark.

13igTyme

Templars shouldn't be able to heal or shield in combat, DKs shouldn't be able to shield or reflect attacks in combat, and sorcs shouldn't be able to shield or streak in combat. If all that happens then you can remove cloak from combat.

SemiD4rkness

Whats ur point? Healing doesnt make a templar op and lets not even talk about DK.
Cloak is a broken skill.

Jennifur_Vultee

Some abilities have limits...for example Bolt escape, costs more with each cast if you cast it over and over.

Bolt Escape
•Transform yourself into pure energy and flash forward, stunning enemies near origin location for 2 seconds
•Casting again within 4 seconds cost 50% more Magicka.

Why should cloak be any different? Why should the tooltip not read...

Shadow Cloak
•Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 2.5 seconds.
•Casting again within 4 seconds cost 50% more Magicka.

Oh that's right...I forgot that Nightblade is the class many of the combat team play...we can't ruin the devs pet class now can we? They certainly don't have an issue nerfing every other class into the dirt.

SemiD4rkness

0 magicka regen while cloaked sounds stupid but so did stam regen while blocking. I like the idea.

AgentCrayon

I don't have enough alchemy skill to make detect potions and mags light takes up a previous slot (on PS4), no idea what caltrops are either.

Maybe my build isn't the best as I never played on PC, but I genuinely think NB with the cloak skill are the hardest to fight in PVP, especially when they can heal whilst cloaked...

Junglejim82

Anyone got a picard facepalm for OP ? Can't use it in combat ? What exactly would be the point in it then? Not a term I use often but alot of l2p is needed for OP and others

Jennifur_Vultee

AgentCrayon wrote: »

I don't have enough alchemy skill to make detect potions and mags light takes up a previous slot (on PS4), no idea what caltrops are either.

Maybe my build isn't the best as I never played on PC, but I genuinely think NB with the cloak skill are the hardest to fight in PVP, especially when they can heal whilst cloaked...

Alliance War skills, Assault
Caltrops
•Hurl an exploding ball of caltrops that scatter over the target area, dealing (x) Physical Damage each second and reducing Movement Speed by 30% for 30 seconds

AgentCrayon

Junglejim82 Junglejim82
✭✭✭
Anyone got a picard facepalm for OP ? Can't use it in combat ? What exactly would be the point in it then? Not a term I use often but alot of l2p is needed for OP and others
#12
1:49PM

I already said I ain't no expert, just because some people don't freak on the game as much as you doesn't mean with need to l2p, no need to act like a complete bellend

CtrlAltDlt

Oh look yet another nerf cloack topic, l2p

Junglejim82

AgentCrayon wrote: »

Junglejim82 Junglejim82
✭✭✭
Anyone got a picard facepalm for OP ? Can't use it in combat ? What exactly would be the point in it then? Not a term I use often but alot of l2p is needed for OP and others
#12
1:49PM

I already said I ain't no expert, just because some people don't freak on the game as much as you doesn't mean with need to l2p, no need to act like a complete bellend

Nah I'm responding in kind for you acting like one . You say you have little understanding of pvp , don't know what caltrops is yet here you are demanding a Nerf for something you don't understand. Something you have a multitude of counters for but apparently don't know about that is indeed a l2p issue if ever I heard one. As for personal attacks I've not played in 2 weeks I'm busy on other games . It's attitudes like your own that lead to unwarranted Nerf's in mmos. Good day kind sir , keep on truckin

Malanor

the cloack itself aint that OP. But the entire setup of NB skills makes him so powerful.

GreenSoup2HoT

I have slotted radient mage light on one bar. This way i can cloak swap and use RML and mark them. Swap back over and be fine.

I've considered duel slotting RML since it reduces all damage from a cloaked attack or stealth attack by 50%. Sound's amazing.

Sounds like a LTP issue. This whole forum is a LTP issue. It's rare when someone actually has footage of there problem and has reason-able changes.

13igTyme

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Whats ur point? Healing doesnt make a templar op and lets not even talk about DK.
Cloak is a broken skill.

Lets just cut to the chase, your bad at the game if you can't use one of ten counters. L2p

Jumper45

AgentCrayon wrote: »

It shouldn't be allowed to be cast during combat IMO, or at least make it so if they are hit by a stray swing or arrow they come visible again. Honestly it's like NBs can hop into battle whenever they wish, then when it gets too much put the cloak and and wait for an another opertunity.

It's the most unfair thing I've come across

Old Post is old. Thinking its spread is just trolling now. If they are hit by a stray anything they do pop out of cloak so not sure where you get your info from. There are a ton of counters for cloak. Most of them from using stray attacks to make them pop out. Dots, Aoes etc and hard counter abilities like radiant light. Infact the short time i played a NB healer I was found by peoples stray attacks after I cloaked. If that is the most unfair thing youve come across then you havnt been playing much or noticed much lol. Its their GTFO ability and all classes have one or can get one and all GTFO abilities have counters. sooooo.......

Emma_Overload

_Proteus_ wrote: »

It's this thread again! I wonder what happens if you gap close a NB and then use an aoe. Or use a detect pot. Or throw down caltrops on top of where the NB was a second ago. Or use radiant magelight and then keep gap closing on them once they come out of stealth.

If all that stuff was really that great, you wouldn't see all these Nightblades in the IC.

Detect potions are expensive or time consuming to acquire and prevent you from have a normal potion available when you need it. AND... you can't keep 100% uptime even if you wanted to!

Caltrops works OK in many situations, but costs tons of stamina (bad for magicka users) AND is only available to long time PvPers. I don't have it yet, and it will probably be months before I do.

Radiant Magelight works SOMETIMES, but costs TWO slots on your weapon bars and screws magicka builds out of 5% magicka. Radiant Magelight FAILS on experienced NBs who just hover out of detection range and pepper you with bow attacks or whatever.

You can make all the excuses you want, but the fact is that there is a good reason you see thread after thread of complaints about Cloak on the forums. The so-called "counters" to this OP skill all have serious drawbacks and costs associated with them. The complaints will not stop until Cloak gets the same treatment as Bolt Escape and DK Flappy Wings.

PBpsy

...and that's how TESO was ruined from day one.

Jumper45

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

Some abilities have limits...for example Bolt escape, costs more with each cast if you cast it over and over.

Bolt Escape
•Transform yourself into pure energy and flash forward, stunning enemies near origin location for 2 seconds
•Casting again within 4 seconds cost 50% more Magicka.

Why should cloak be any different? Why should the tooltip not read...

Shadow Cloak
•Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 2.5 seconds.
•Casting again within 4 seconds cost 50% more Magicka.

Oh that's right...I forgot that Nightblade is the class many of the combat team play...we can't ruin the devs pet class now can we? They certainly don't have an issue nerfing every other class into the dirt.

Having higher costs the more you use cloak wont work which is why it hasnt been done yet I wager. The only change that would make that viable is if cloak was not breakable ( Which would make it harder to deal with then now) The reason it works for dodge roll and bolt is because No one can stop you from gaining the effects of it. If you cloak and you get hit the cloak drops instantly which means you got zero effect from the resource useage thus making the ability obsolete and just being generally unfair since all the other abilities if you spend resource youre going to get an effect.

If they want to make cloak unbreakable and add a higher cost per use im down for it. It just means the NB will be able to get away every single time vs now where you can catch them if you know what to do.

But adding a higher cost per use and being able to break it makes no sense at all. Not being able to use during combat also makes no sense. No one is going to slot an ability they can only use once and would be the only ability to do so. Also to make the most out of stealth you really have to give up several skill slots and use them in order which is quite the resource hog and time consuming. Also the simple fact EVERYONE gets stealth out of combat. So to use a skill slot that does just the same thing also makes no sense. Their Ambush build requires the use of cloak constantly during combat. You would have to rework most of the "assassin" abilities to make that viable so youre asking for a huge change there.

The reason bolt does not = Cloak is because you can bolt 2 times or so and be out of of range of anyone then use stealth cloak. NB does not have that option really so its not the same. Bolt literally puts you out of harms way. Cloak does not. Just by looking at these 2 tooltips you thrown up its easy to see Bolt would be superior. Not sure why you would want that. Hell you didnt even bring up the fact bolt stuns and other things while cloak does not. Its a shame really that all of this comes out of toxicity then a need to balance the game.

Id also like to add in most if not all other mmos a "Rogue/Assassin" does and can stealth/vanish mid combat. Even in TES games you can stealth mid combat. Why is there such toxicity over something that has been around since the stone ages.

NB Have to use a Skill slot for cloak. If you are unwilling to slot a hard counter Then I see no reason to leave it as is. Bolt doesnt have counters and cloak does ..... Honestly have no idea where people are going with this.

Brrrofski

They have no proper heals and no proper shield.

They have cloak instead.

Plenty of counters go it. Magelight, flare, curse, aoe in general, det pots.

eliisra

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

You can make all the excuses you want, but the fact is that there is a good reason you see thread after thread of complaints about Cloak on the forums. The so-called "counters" to this OP skill all have serious drawbacks and costs associated with them. The complaints will not stop until Cloak gets the same treatment as Bolt Escape and DK Flappy Wings.

It's really because magicka builds lack good counters that goes well into a normal PvP build.

Stamina builds have Caltrops or Steel Tornado, great skills they would slot anyway, that messes up cloak attempts.

Magicka builds have nothing simliar.

Expecting them to level Support all the way to 7, than run Flare, Dots + double RM and stop using PvP crucial Tri-Stat pots, only to counter one single class in a game that has 4, is a bit ridiculous.

Almost as unreasonable as the builds and skills you needed prior to 1.6, only to kill a DK: Staff attacks that couldn't be reflected, stamina drains, cc going through block, heal debuff, AoE, DoTs, even S&B.

All classes has to be equally hard or easy to counter. That's balance. One class cant require 20-25% of your entire skill bar, when no other class requires it.

There's reason in-combat cloak in any online game(but ESO) has a cooldown, cant be spammed AND has counters. But we're playing the Nightblade edition/DLC, so yeah.

OmniDevil

All cloak needs is the Sorcerer Bolt Escape treatment.

In all MMOs where a Rogue/Thief type class that had a Cloak/Vanish mechanic/skill, they are the one most class complained about, but are also one of the most played. Why? Cloak/Vanish. It's easier to cloak when a fight isn't going your way, wait till there is an unfair advantage for your opponent and only jump out when you can kill them. There is no Cost/Risk for the Reward. It's just Reward. Giving Cloak the Bolt Escape treatment would force a more strategic and well timed/planned use rather than just mindlessly using the skill until you go oom.

Otherwise, OP, no point in complaining about it on the forums. All you're going to get is the Nightblade fanbois screaming "L2P" or some other rant about how X Class Skill is just as overpowered as Y Class Skill. There's also the popular defense about X Skill, Y Potion or Z Ability counters it.

But in all honesty, with CC Immunity being as buggy as it is, take that away and have it work 100% of the time as intended, Nightblades, in general, wouldn't be that bad.

Keep at it though, OP. Not all Nightblades are good. Having a Cloak skill doesn't make all Nightblade players good and it's very easy to tell the difference between a good Nightblade and a bad one.

Gipo

AgentCrayon wrote: »

I don't have enough alchemy skill to make detect potions and mags light takes up a previous slot (on PS4), no idea what caltrops are either.

Maybe my build isn't the best as I never played on PC, but I genuinely think NB with the cloak skill are the hardest to fight in PVP, especially when they can heal whilst cloaked...

When I do pvp I try to modify my build all the time so I could counter as many builds/classes as I can.
And you basically want to run random and not optimized build and kill everyone. I'm sorry for you mate but that's not the way PvP should be!
As a mag nb your dps is not that great so cloak is there to help you survive and eventually kill.
As a stam nb you're very bursty but you can't cast cloak more than 4 times if you start at full magicka. Usually stam nbs use mag for other skills also so 4 cloaks is a mirage.
When I watch some good streamers or youtubers they always says that they hate fighting nb but nobody ever said nb is OP atm.
It's really bad to cause nerfs to other classes with countless threads because of l2p issues.

revonine

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Whats ur point? Healing doesnt make a templar op and lets not even talk about DK.
Cloak is a broken skill.

Actually thanks to the damage nerfs and healing being still pretty strong it's pretty hard to kill a good templar if you have nothing with defile.
It's also hard to kill a good DK without CC.
It's also hard to kill a good nightblade without cloak counters.
Also had to kill a good sorc without CC and high burst.
The point is every class has areas to which they excel you have to use appropriate counters if your going to deal with them.

HOWEVER I will say that some cloak counters could use a buff. Namely revealing flare for one.

I very nearly just didn't bother with this reply because I'm getting sick of these threads and I'm not the only one.

heystreethawk wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

If all that stuff was really that great, you wouldn't see all these Nightblades in the IC.

Gap closers, AoE, Caltrops, detect pots, and Radiant Magelight (which you don't actually need to slot on both bars unless you want extra spell crit, and if you do, what's the problem?) are actually that great. The only counter that isn't useful for something other than detecting stealthed enemies is Revealing Flare.

You see all these Nightblades in The OC IC because most people are too lazy to modify their play style in the slightest in order to effectively counter Nightblades (or anyone else). The options are available. They are usable, and they are useful -- you simply refuse them, and you construct excuses as to why they're no good. I've noticed that people who complain about cloak speak quite definitively about their situation, but they otherwise suggest that they're completely out of their element. If it will take you that much longer to get Caltrops, consider the possibility that you have no business speaking authoritatively about PvP mechanics.

The majority of Nightblades in the sewers are terrible players. They, like you, want things to be made easy for them, and so they have adopted a build which they believe to be easy. I do not believe that most of them even read the tooltips of their own class skills; they will burn through their entire magicka pool, cloaking frantically, right after I mark them. It's not a DoT, guys! Try again! These Nightblades are not actually a problem.

The problem here is that you, and the other people complaining about cloak, want to be able to beat anyone using what you are already have-- what you are already accustomed to-- and you want to be able to do this using the level of experience that you have right now (which is, in most cases, negligible). Furthermore, you and these other players reject the possibility that by improving your skills and your play style, you would find it easier to defeat the enemies that are causing you problems right now. You reject the advice offered to you by more skilled and more experienced PvPers, and perhaps you reject the idea of skill altogether. Perhaps it is more comforting to consider this a numbers game, where skills are ranked from 1 to 10 in order of their objective greatness, and whomever has the "10" will win no matter what. In which case, PvP is going to be a pretty hopeless endeavor for you no matter which class kills you the most frequently, so perhaps you should wait until Orsinium to collect all your crafting materials.

Want to frame this comment. I've been saying this since these threads started.

heystreethawk

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

If all that stuff was really that great, you wouldn't see all these Nightblades in the IC.

Gap closers, AoE, Caltrops, detect pots, and Radiant Magelight (which you don't actually need to slot on both bars unless you want extra spell crit, and if you do, what's the problem?) are actually that great. The only counter that isn't useful for something other than detecting stealthed enemies is Revealing Flare.

You see all these Nightblades in The OC IC because most people are too lazy to modify their play style in the slightest in order to effectively counter Nightblades (or anyone else). The options are available. They are usable, and they are useful -- you simply refuse them, and you construct excuses as to why they're no good. I've noticed that people who complain about cloak speak quite definitively about their situation, but they otherwise suggest that they're completely out of their element. If it will take you that much longer to get Caltrops, consider the possibility that you have no business speaking authoritatively about PvP mechanics.

The majority of Nightblades in the sewers are terrible players. They, like you, want things to be made easy for them, and so they have adopted a build which they believe to be easy. I do not believe that most of them even read the tooltips of their own class skills; they will burn through their entire magicka pool, cloaking frantically, right after I mark them. It's not a DoT, guys! Try again! These Nightblades are not actually a problem.

The problem here is that you, and the other people complaining about cloak, want to be able to beat anyone using what you are already have-- what you are already accustomed to-- and you want to be able to do this using the level of experience that you have right now (which is, in most cases, negligible). Furthermore, you and these other players reject the possibility that by improving your skills and your play style, you would find it easier to defeat the enemies that are causing you problems right now. You reject the advice offered to you by more skilled and more experienced PvPers, and perhaps you reject the idea of skill altogether. Perhaps it is more comforting to consider this a numbers game, where skills are ranked from 1 to 10 in order of their objective greatness, and whomever has the "10" will win no matter what. In which case, PvP is going to be a pretty hopeless endeavor for you no matter which class kills you the most frequently, so perhaps you should wait until Orsinium to collect all your crafting materials.

DannyLV702

_Proteus_ wrote: »

It's this thread again! I wonder what happens if you gap close a NB and then use an aoe. Or use a detect pot. Or throw down caltrops on top of where the NB was a second ago. Or use radiant magelight and then keep gap closing on them once they come out of stealth.

If you thing that bullsh*t works then you need to play something other than your nightblade

DannyLV702

juan0316 wrote: »

Oh look yet another nerf cloack topic, l2p

You're the one that's gonna have to actually l2p when your iwin button is nerfed