Why do you feel that Nightblades need to be nerfed

eNumbra · October 2015

I was killed by nightblades and tired of it

Alucardo wrote: »

Everyone should just roll a Nightblade. Can't get much more balance than that

Stamina (too much damage) vs Magicka (infinite cloak)

Lets just get rid of player interaction, we'll watch a dev play through the game, then it will be balanced.

TheNephilimCrow · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

The difficulty in countering it is NOT the only problem with Cloak. Let me explain...

9 times out of 10, when I get ganked in the IC sewers, the culprit is a Nightblade. Sometimes the NB uses Cloak frequently during the fight, but not always. The REAL problem, in my opinion, is the fact that the enemy Nightblade is traipsing around my faction's section of the sewers in the first place!

I keep hearing about how Sorcs are OP, too, blah blah blah... so how come I almost never see them? For the same reason I rarely see enemy DKs or Templars: because moving through the sewers past HUNDREDS of mobs is a huge pain in the butt if you are not a Nightblade. Nightblades use Cloak outside of combat to quickly position themselves in the best spots to grief hapless PvE grinders.

I think it's crap that NBs have escaped all the nerfs that have gutted other classes, and I think it's crap that they can use Cloak to dominate the IC in ways that no other class can. If @ZOS doesn't want to nerf Nightblades, at least they can look at the other classes and see about giving us some buffs or new skills to make up for this power deficit.

I don't know why "I don't see any other classes" is starting to trend. Whenever I am in IC or even Cyro, I see DKs and Sorc. The only one I could agree on is Templar. I don't see hardly any Templars, really.

I actually hardly see any Nightblades and please, spare me the puns... I run detect pots and counters for it and never see any. Many DK with Reflect and Sorc with mines.

I think different players are going to run into different enemies based on where and how they spend their time. I'm not looking for PvP, so I stay out of Cyrodiil and only go into the Districts to cash my trophies at the vaults. Grinders like me are going to be found in the sections of our own faction's sewers that have the highest density of easy to kill mobs. In my case, that's Vile Drainage in the DC sewer, but I'm sure AD and EP have similar areas.

The kind of guys who like to gank players like me KNOW where we are and what we are doing. There is almost a common profile of this ganker: a Nightblade with PvP rank in the 20's or higher. I'm not kidding when I say 9 out of 10 are NBs! Most of the rest are Sorcs and a few Templars. I don't know if I've EVER been ganked by a DK in Vile Drainage. Templars and DKs seem to prefer traveling in big groups. Maybe it's a different story outside the sewers.... I wouldn't know!

But, as I've stated, I play in both areas... and I run into more Sorc and DKs. Perhaps it just bad luck that you run into Nightblades? I don't stick to just one area. I roam all over in enemy territories.

Tholian1 · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

Aedaryl wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Just nerf it !

The problem with the NB is not the NB himself, but the mechanics that make NB powerfull, : In one hand, Harness Magicka for magicka NBs, it's make NB really hard to kill with magicka character, and it's the same for NB magicka VS magicka in general.

In the other hand, for the stamina NB, it's a Champion Point problem : you can reduce all damage with cp exept the PHYSICAL damage, so, the stamina increase his damage, but you can't do anything to stop it...

The only problem for the NB is for me the cloak, even stamina NBs can spam it to infinity. Cloak is the best escape in the game and it's need a little nerf.

As a stamina NB, I would like to know how to spam cloak to infinity. If a NB has enough magicka to do that, then they are not using a Stamina build. I really wish some of these "stamina" NBs that are able to spam cloak infinitely, would share their secret.

What you are most likely experiencing is them using cloak and breaking line of sight to enter stealth.

A NB hwo is not able to cloak when he want is a bad NB, sorry

Umm what does that have to do with your false statement that a stamina NB can infinitely use his cloak? You sound like you are just mad even if he uses it only once or twice. With zero points in magicka, and all gear, passives, and CPs aimed at stamina cost reduction and regen, a Stamina NB can only spam his cloak about 4 or 5 times in a row.

Quit making false statements.

Tryxus · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

My nightblade is balanced, the other 3 classes are the problem because they're underpowered.
Solution? Buff 3 classes instead of nerfing one. LOL.
And yes you're popular because you're op.

Buffing? Causes the ppl who main the 3 other classes to be happy and makes this forum a nicer place
Nerfing? Creates raging, unnecessary flaming and outcries, the creation of many useless QQ threads and more work for ZOS to create "balance" in PvP

Your move, pal!

and yes, I love being popular
/blowkiss

TheNephilimCrow · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

eNumbra wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Everyone should just roll a Nightblade. Can't get much more balance than that

Stamina (too much damage) vs Magicka (infinite cloak)

Lets just get rid of player interaction, we'll watch a dev play through the game, then it will be balanced.

Twitch is an amazing thing.

Alucardo · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

My nightblade is balanced, the other 3 classes are the problem because they're underpowered.
Solution? Buff 3 classes instead of nerfing one. LOL.
And yes you're popular because you're op.

Actually Sorc is fine, and Templar isn't bad. DKs are the main ones left behind.

SHADOW2KK · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

Tholian1 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Tholian1 wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

Just nerf it !

The problem with the NB is not the NB himself, but the mechanics that make NB powerfull, : In one hand, Harness Magicka for magicka NBs, it's make NB really hard to kill with magicka character, and it's the same for NB magicka VS magicka in general.

In the other hand, for the stamina NB, it's a Champion Point problem : you can reduce all damage with cp exept the PHYSICAL damage, so, the stamina increase his damage, but you can't do anything to stop it...

The only problem for the NB is for me the cloak, even stamina NBs can spam it to infinity. Cloak is the best escape in the game and it's need a little nerf.

As a stamina NB, I would like to know how to spam cloak to infinity. If a NB has enough magicka to do that, then they are not using a Stamina build. I really wish some of these "stamina" NBs that are able to spam cloak infinitely, would share their secret.

What you are most likely experiencing is them using cloak and breaking line of sight to enter stealth.

A NB hwo is not able to cloak when he want is a bad NB, sorry

Umm what does that have to do with your false statement that a stamina NB can infinitely use his cloak? You sound like you are just mad even if he uses it only once or twice. With zero points in magicka, and all gear, passives, and CPs aimed at stamina cost reduction and regen, a Stamina NB can only spam his cloak about 4 or 5 times in a row.

Quit making false statements.

Cant stress how just "This" is....

eliisra · October 2015

Just nerf it

I was going to be mature about it, say #Nonerfs and suggest that under-performing builds/classes in PvP gets improved instead. That's how I feel honestly. But I changed my mind after reading the usual crap.

Every single time magicka DK's, magicka templars, stamplars or stamina sorcs tries to discuss and come up with ideas to make gameplay better, more fun and smoother they're instantly jumped and shut down by the NB Mafia community. Every single time.

I was a heavy supporter of NB's and especially stamina ones getting major buffes, back when they were ***, in the beginning of the game. I could relate I guess, playing mostly templar, that also was borderline unplayable at start. But now when tables are turned, these guys sure as hell aren't returning the favour lol. Instead they're so comfortable playing master race, everyone else "is fine" and has "l2p issues".

So just screw it and enjoy whatever nerfs coming your way.

TheNephilimCrow · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

eliisra wrote: »

I was going to be mature about it, say #Nonerfs and suggest that under-performing builds/classes in PvP gets improved instead. That's how I feel honestly. But I changed my mind after reading the usual crap.

Every single time magicka DK's, magicka templars, stamplars or stamina sorcs tries to discuss and come up with ideas to make gameplay better, more fun and smoother they're instantly jumped and shut down by the NB Mafia community. Every single time.

I was a heavy supporter of NB's and especially stamina ones getting major buffes, back when they were ***, in the beginning of the game. I could relate I guess, playing mostly templar, that also was borderline unplayable at start. But now when tables are turned, these guys sure as hell aren't returning the favour lol. Instead they're so comfortable playing master race, everyone else "is fine" and has "l2p issues".

So just screw it and enjoy whatever nerfs coming your way.

No class is perfect. And yes, two out of the four classes should be buffed just a bit, but no class is master race. I can get behind Templars and DKs being buffed a bit more. Templars more than DKs, but honestly, NB's are fine.

Skiserony · October 2015

Cloak and I do not know of proper counters for it

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Wish people would just L2P and get good, instead of the `wahhhh wahhhhhh I died, you must hack wahhhh wahhh` pathetic mentality.

Then, to máke it worse, cos they died, they come on forums and wahhhhh and whine and gnash their teeth for nerfs cos they cannot adapt.

Sighs, people....

I guess you're a NB.

I feel like NB with a ridiculous amount of CP is OP, and more OP than another class with the same CP. But that's going to be fixed.

One thing that makes me doubt NB's OP'ness is the cloak, not the hiding necessarily or removing DoT's, but the fact they can just back off a fight and get back in agains't certain builds. Against a DK for example, NB's have the extreme upperhand because they have the mobility and cloak while DK's mobility really lacks and also lacks (yes, it is possible but in 90% of the situation not really) the oppertunity to counter it. Yes, we got detection pots, but they only work for 10s and then for the next 40s you can't use it.

It's more a class vs class imbalance to me, not NB being OP.

SemiD4rkness · October 2015

Just nerf it

eliisra wrote: »

I was going to be mature about it, say #Nonerfs and suggest that under-performing builds/classes in PvP gets improved instead. That's how I feel honestly. But I changed my mind after reading the usual crap.

Every single time magicka DK's, magicka templars, stamplars or stamina sorcs tries to discuss and come up with ideas to make gameplay better, more fun and smoother they're instantly jumped and shut down by the NB Mafia community. Every single time.

I was a heavy supporter of NB's and especially stamina ones getting major buffes, back when they were ***, in the beginning of the game. I could relate I guess, playing mostly templar, that also was borderline unplayable at start. But now when tables are turned, these guys sure as hell aren't returning the favour lol. Instead they're so comfortable playing master race, everyone else "is fine" and has "l2p issues".

So just screw it and enjoy whatever nerfs coming your way.

This is exactly how i feel.

Bloodgharm · October 2015

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

But the Sorc can slot carltrops, but but .....
Thats what a nightblade would say.

I'm really starting believe you are a troll.

So either I think NBs are balanced or Iam a troll. Good logic.
I know it's hard, I got my op class nerfed to hell back when i played Dofus and i cried a lot too.

You're really the only one I see around here QQing. You've created multiple threads to pick apart one skill. You refuse to even try the class out to test if your theory about NBs is true and you ignore any advice to counter said one skill. I'll admit that in the sewers they can easily sneak around and position themselves for a gank, but that's only in close quarters spaces where they are at an advantage. I'll also admit that stamina NBs can be easier to play because of their stealth bonuses, but a skilled player can take them down no problem.

A truly skilled player would try the class out to figure out what the weaknesses are then use those weaknesses to stomp out any nb opposition you come across. Instead of trying to land dots and burst down nbs, maybe try some utility and cc. For a stam nb, they don't have a lot of options once their initial attack has failed. They'll be low on stamina and won't have much magicka to slink away with cloak. The longer you can draw out the engagement the easier they are to take out. But I'm sure you knew that.

Regardless, it's easy to tell what kind of person you are since you always call for a nerf on a class you've never tried and barely understand. You've never offered any constructive criticism on how ZoS should buff the other classes to bring them on par with NBs. Cloak just got "fixed" in that it now doesn't take 3-4 spams of the skill to get it to work. You just want to cry about how OP it is. So in effect you are the biggest QQer of them all. I can sit here and argue with you all day in a gentlemanly manner, but I fear that our battle of the wits will simply end in you spouting vitriol and garbage until I have no sanity left. So good day to you sir.

SHADOW2KK · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

Skiserony wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Wish people would just L2P and get good, instead of the `wahhhh wahhhhhh I died, you must hack wahhhh wahhh` pathetic mentality.

Then, to máke it worse, cos they died, they come on forums and wahhhhh and whine and gnash their teeth for nerfs cos they cannot adapt.

Sighs, people....

I guess you're a NB.

I feel like NB with a ridiculous amount of CP is OP, and more OP than another class with the same CP. But that's going to be fixed.

One thing that makes me doubt NB's OP'ness is the cloak, not the hiding necessarily or removing DoT's, but the fact they can just back off a fight and get back in agains't certain builds. Against a DK for example, NB's have the extreme upperhand because they have the mobility and cloak while DK's mobility really lacks and also lacks (yes, it is possible but in 90% of the situation not really) the oppertunity to counter it. Yes, we got detection pots, but they only work for 10s and then for the next 40s you can't use it.

It's more a class vs class imbalance to me, not NB being OP.

Aye one of my main toons is a NB, but I méan just generally about attitudes of some gamers, there are counters, adapt and use them.

I personally have never screamed nerf, even for the godlike vamp dks back when the game was young, ye, they were a force to be reckoned with, but I relished the challenge, and didnt scream for nerfs.

As you said there are class imbalances atm, not just once class being OP as some players get pwned by them too much.

Just my 50p.

Tryxus · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

Skiserony wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Wish people would just L2P and get good, instead of the `wahhhh wahhhhhh I died, you must hack wahhhh wahhh` pathetic mentality.

Then, to máke it worse, cos they died, they come on forums and wahhhhh and whine and gnash their teeth for nerfs cos they cannot adapt.

Sighs, people....

I guess you're a NB.

I feel like NB with a ridiculous amount of CP is OP, and more OP than another class with the same CP. But that's going to be fixed.

One thing that makes me doubt NB's OP'ness is the cloak, not the hiding necessarily or removing DoT's, but the fact they can just back off a fight and get back in agains't certain builds. Against a DK for example, NB's have the extreme upperhand because they have the mobility and cloak while DK's mobility really lacks and also lacks (yes, it is possible but in 90% of the situation not really) the oppertunity to counter it. Yes, we got detection pots, but they only work for 10s and then for the next 40s you can't use it.

It's more a class vs class imbalance to me, not NB being OP.

Wait, so NB have the upper hand against DK? Then how come I die to each DK I encounter? (not taking my newbness into account)

The DK still has scales which makes my Destro Staff + Skills as well as my main attack Funnel Health completely useless, forcing me to rely on attacks that costs more Magicka or to get close to a DK who'll then proceed to whack me with his Lava Whip.

StamBlades are a diff story, since they can't spam Cloak and escape the DK but have the means to take him on.

OrphanHelgen · October 2015

Make some good poll alternatives, and I might vote and take this post serious.

TheNephilimCrow · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Make some good poll alternatives, and I might vote and take this post serious.

I've made the options based off of majority of arguments I've seen. Care to add a new one?

Tholian1 · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

Skiserony wrote: »

SHADOW2KK wrote: »

Wish people would just L2P and get good, instead of the `wahhhh wahhhhhh I died, you must hack wahhhh wahhh` pathetic mentality.

Then, to máke it worse, cos they died, they come on forums and wahhhhh and whine and gnash their teeth for nerfs cos they cannot adapt.

Sighs, people....

I guess you're a NB.

I feel like NB with a ridiculous amount of CP is OP, and more OP than another class with the same CP. But that's going to be fixed.

One thing that makes me doubt NB's OP'ness is the cloak, not the hiding necessarily or removing DoT's, but the fact they can just back off a fight and get back in agains't certain builds. Against a DK for example, NB's have the extreme upperhand because they have the mobility and cloak while DK's mobility really lacks and also lacks (yes, it is possible but in 90% of the situation not really) the oppertunity to counter it. Yes, we got detection pots, but they only work for 10s and then for the next 40s you can't use it.

It's more a class vs class imbalance to me, not NB being OP.

Just responding to the part I bolded...

Alchemy passive - Medicinal Use. Increases the length of potion effects.

Jewelry enchantments
- Glyph of Potion Boost. Increases potion Effect
- Glyph of Potion Speed. Reduce cool down of potions.

Jhunn · October 2015

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I think different players are going to run into different enemies based on where and how they spend their time. I'm not looking for PvP, so I stay out of Cyrodiil and only go into the Districts to cash my trophies at the vaults. Grinders like me are going to be found in the sections of our own faction's sewers that have the highest density of easy to kill mobs. In my case, that's Vile Drainage in the DC sewer, but I'm sure AD and EP have similar areas.

The kind of guys who like to gank players like me KNOW where we are and what we are doing. There is almost a common profile of this ganker: a Nightblade with PvP rank in the 20's or higher. I'm not kidding when I say 9 out of 10 are NBs! Most of the rest are Sorcs and a few Templars. I don't know if I've EVER been ganked by a DK in Vile Drainage. Templars and DKs seem to prefer traveling in big groups. Maybe it's a different story outside the sewers.... I wouldn't know!

Then you come here, voting on something that would effect PVP, which you don't care about, so you can safely grind your PVE mobs in the sewers?

Tryxus · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

eliisra wrote: »

I was going to be mature about it, say #Nonerfs and suggest that under-performing builds/classes in PvP gets improved instead. That's how I feel honestly. But I changed my mind after reading the usual crap.

Every single time magicka DK's, magicka templars, stamplars or stamina sorcs tries to discuss and come up with ideas to make gameplay better, more fun and smoother they're instantly jumped and shut down by the NB Mafia community. Every single time.

I was a heavy supporter of NB's and especially stamina ones getting major buffes, back when they were ***, in the beginning of the game. I could relate I guess, playing mostly templar, that also was borderline unplayable at start. But now when tables are turned, these guys sure as hell aren't returning the favour lol. Instead they're so comfortable playing master race, everyone else "is fine" and has "l2p issues".

So just screw it and enjoy whatever nerfs coming your way.

Just cuz there are a few rotten apples in the bunch, doesn't mean all NB are like that.

I mean, me and several other NB here are srsly wish that the other classes get their boosts as well instead of the NB getting nerfed so that we can all enjoy the game and the PvP aspect of it the way it was intended.

Plz dun be mean :'(

Shunravi · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

eliisra wrote: »

I was going to be mature about it, say #Nonerfs and suggest that under-performing builds/classes in PvP gets improved instead. That's how I feel honestly. But I changed my mind after reading the usual crap.

Every single time magicka DK's, magicka templars, stamplars or stamina sorcs tries to discuss and come up with ideas to make gameplay better, more fun and smoother they're instantly jumped and shut down by the NB Mafia community. Every single time.

I was a heavy supporter of NB's and especially stamina ones getting major buffes, back when they were ***, in the beginning of the game. I could relate I guess, playing mostly templar, that also was borderline unplayable at start. But now when tables are turned, these guys sure as hell aren't returning the favour lol. Instead they're so comfortable playing master race, everyone else "is fine" and has "l2p issues".

So just screw it and enjoy whatever nerfs coming your way.

I hate that part of the nightblade community too.

revonine · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

WHY does such ignorance come up in every NB thread. Stamina NB CANNOT spam cloak. What your witnessing is a stamblade cloak once or twice to break LOS gain distance and enter stealth normally. Don't you dare punish good players for using their environment and understanding game mechanics.

Magblades can spam cloak but their damage completely sucks.

Tryxus · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

Funny thing is: I was actually planning to make a serious thread regarding a certain tweak/nerf to cloak and asking for a bit of input on the matter, but then 3 "I HATE/LOVE NB"-threads popped up. And my inner joker just couldn't resist xD

Should I still make it?

TheNephilimCrow · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

revonine wrote: »

WHY does such ignorance come up in every NB thread. Stamina NB CANNOT spam cloak. What your witnessing is a stamblade cloak once or twice to break LOS gain distance and enter stealth normally. Don't you dare punish good players for using their environment and understanding game mechanics.

Magblades can spam cloak but their damage completely sucks.

You know what, I'm a stamina NB user and I do exactly what you describe when a mob of 30 players comes at me, well in the terms of cloak twice and go stealth as anyone else can. I didn't even think of this counter argument until you mentioned it. I wonder if anyone else did. Interesting. Good on ya.

usmcjdking · October 2015

There is a whole sordid list of issues around cloak, number one issues being the agro dump it does and the incredible utility out of it.

It's impossible to chase a NB that isn't completely resourced because any agro that he gets, is now your agro. The available counters to cloak are pathetic - detect pots timer being cut in half has turned them into nigh useless, flare just sucks (should have a much larger AOE, a non-purgeable reveal, greater range and be instant cast), there is no reveal range (should be default 3m MINIMUM) and the old spam gap closer/aoe trick only works for neckbeards who have legendary actions per minute.

With that said, NBs survivability is incredibly poor outside of cloak and their damage is slightly above marginal. Soul Siphon NEEDS TO AFFECT THE *** CASTER, Cripple's major expedition duration needs to be 12 seconds, and the damage component to Sap Essence needs to be nerfed to dust.

Add that to the removal of max stam/mag affecting weapon/spell power and NBs will be golden.

TheNephilimCrow · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

usmcjdking wrote: »

There is a whole sordid list of issues around cloak, number one issues being the agro dump it does and the incredible utility out of it.

It's impossible to chase a NB that isn't completely resourced because any agro that he gets, is now your agro. The available counters to cloak are pathetic - detect pots timer being cut in half has turned them into nigh useless, flare just sucks (should have a much larger AOE, a non-purgeable reveal, greater range and be instant cast), there is no reveal range (should be default 3m MINIMUM) and the old spam gap closer/aoe trick only works for neckbeards who have legendary actions per minute.

With that said, NBs survivability is incredibly poor outside of cloak and their damage is slightly above marginal. Soul Siphon NEEDS TO AFFECT THE *** CASTER, Cripple's major expedition duration needs to be 12 seconds, and the damage component to Sap Essence needs to be nerfed to dust.

Add that to the removal of max stam/mag affecting weapon/spell power and NBs will be golden.

@usmcjdking Ever try Caltrops? It's all the rave, sir. Super effective.

revonine · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

WHY does such ignorance come up in every NB thread. Stamina NB CANNOT spam cloak. What your witnessing is a stamblade cloak once or twice to break LOS gain distance and enter stealth normally. Don't you dare punish good players for using their environment and understanding game mechanics.

Magblades can spam cloak but their damage completely sucks.

You know what, I'm a stamina NB user and I do exactly what you describe when a mob of 30 players comes at me, well in the terms of cloak twice and go stealth as anyone else can. I didn't even think of this counter argument until you mentioned it. I wonder if anyone else did. Interesting. Good on ya.

The stuck in combat bug makes it impossible sometimes though.

SemiD4rkness · October 2015

Just nerf it

Bloodgharm wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

But the Sorc can slot carltrops, but but .....
Thats what a nightblade would say.

I'm really starting believe you are a troll.

So either I think NBs are balanced or Iam a troll. Good logic.
I know it's hard, I got my op class nerfed to hell back when i played Dofus and i cried a lot too.

You're really the only one I see around here QQing. You've created multiple threads to pick apart one skill. You refuse to even try the class out to test if your theory about NBs is true and you ignore any advice to counter said one skill. I'll admit that in the sewers they can easily sneak around and position themselves for a gank, but that's only in close quarters spaces where they are at an advantage. I'll also admit that stamina NBs can be easier to play because of their stealth bonuses, but a skilled player can take them down no problem.

A truly skilled player would try the class out to figure out what the weaknesses are then use those weaknesses to stomp out any nb opposition you come across. Instead of trying to land dots and burst down nbs, maybe try some utility and cc. For a stam nb, they don't have a lot of options once their initial attack has failed. They'll be low on stamina and won't have much magicka to slink away with cloak. The longer you can draw out the engagement the easier they are to take out. But I'm sure you knew that.

Regardless, it's easy to tell what kind of person you are since you always call for a nerf on a class you've never tried and barely understand. You've never offered any constructive criticism on how ZoS should buff the other classes to bring them on par with NBs. Cloak just got "fixed" in that it now doesn't take 3-4 spams of the skill to get it to work. You just want to cry about how OP it is. So in effect you are the biggest QQer of them all. I can sit here and argue with you all day in a gentlemanly manner, but I fear that our battle of the wits will simply end in you spouting vitriol and garbage until I have no sanity left. So good day to you sir.

. I actually have a nice build to counter nbs but thats puts me in a rough spot vs sorcerers

Tryxus wrote: »

Funny thing is: I was actually planning to make a serious thread regarding a certain tweak/nerf to cloak and asking for a bit of input on the matter, but then 3 "I HATE/LOVE NB"-threads popped up. And my inner joker just couldn't resist xD

Should I still make it?

if it doesn't have ridiculous and one sided answers as this one then yes, could be interesting.

dsalter · October 2015

Mass Hysteria is too powerful when close quarters

the only issue with Nightblades or more specifically, stamblades, is how hard they hit and how fast they can spam it. they gain a crap ton of synergy with all their skills and can control the crap out of a small group to kill his target and leave without worrying about dying.

fear is imba. so is the burst.

TheNephilimCrow · October 2015

It doesn't need a nerf

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

if it doesn't have ridiculous and one sided answers as this one then yes, could be interesting.

This is funny, coming from you... you get facts and beaten in your own thread, so you turn around making another thread about the same thing. You don't want a equal debate, you want people to just agree with you, which is making one sided.

And, in the defense of this particular thread, I made this to get all equal stats VS saying people want the nerf. So far, it's in the favor of not being nerfed. Since, statistics is the number one thing people keep saying they have, but never show.

usmcjdking · October 2015

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

There is a whole sordid list of issues around cloak, number one issues being the agro dump it does and the incredible utility out of it.

It's impossible to chase a NB that isn't completely resourced because any agro that he gets, is now your agro. The available counters to cloak are pathetic - detect pots timer being cut in half has turned them into nigh useless, flare just sucks (should have a much larger AOE, a non-purgeable reveal, greater range and be instant cast), there is no reveal range (should be default 3m MINIMUM) and the old spam gap closer/aoe trick only works for neckbeards who have legendary actions per minute.

With that said, NBs survivability is incredibly poor outside of cloak and their damage is slightly above marginal. Soul Siphon NEEDS TO AFFECT THE *** CASTER, Cripple's major expedition duration needs to be 12 seconds, and the damage component to Sap Essence needs to be nerfed to dust.

Add that to the removal of max stam/mag affecting weapon/spell power and NBs will be golden.

@usmcjdking Ever try Caltrops? It's all the rave, sir. Super effective.

Caltrops is neither a stealth nor cloak counter. It's a stealth/cloak area denial. Button mashing moron NBs might get hard countered by caltrops (spam ambush/SA/wbwbwbwbwbwb no stam to dodgeroll can't cloak omfg caltrops op).

Standing in caltrops is a l2p issue. Getting caught by a detect pot, flare and gap closer/immob and it becomes a "you've been countered" issue.

NBs who think caltrops is a legitimate counter can be added to the pile of cookie cutters who get their stones stolen in IC then make forum posts whining how squishy they are. Cloak has been enabling terrible players to perform better than they actually are, which is why it needs to get nerfed.