Cloak is ridiculous

Tryxus · October 2015

catalyst10e wrote: »

Why do NB assume the nerf to cloak is going to remove it entirely? They keep crying its their only defense like a nerf would mean they completely scrap it. Does lowering your ability to cast it forever really break your build? Stam blades have a limited use of the skill and still do just fine. It's not going away it'll most likely just get some sort of nerf that limits magicka regen or a slow creeping increase to cost at intervals of 5% or so.

Quote FTW

Cloak is only really needed to escape tricky situations, getting rid of DoT, or for infiltration/getting into position without being seen.

If a nerf gets applied to it, it should simply lower the Magicka Regen of the player to about 90% of the Magicka Cost of the Cloak so that they still have decent regen without being crippled (like Tanks with the latest Stam Block nerf) and without being able to infinite cloak throughout Cyrodiil

I_killed_Vivec · October 2015

Jumper45 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

juan0316 wrote: »

Oh look yet another nerf cloack topic, l2p

You're the one that's gonna have to actually l2p when your iwin button is nerfed

its not an i win button its im going invisible you have to stop pressing wb and find me button.

More usually it's the "I'm going invisible before I hit you with WB again" button.

The problem is that NBs here are saying that they need Cloak to escape, whereas the experience of other classes is that they use it to disengage before re-engaging. At the same time conveniently dropping any Dots that might have been applied.

It does amuse me to see people say they are playing an "assassin" class... with a 6 foot sword! Maybe if anyone wants to attack from stealth they should only be allowed to use a dagger

This is the WB/blur hit and run build. While it only works for a few passes it can seem kind of abusive of the build but -shrug- its just tactics really. It can be countered and can honestly tell you radiant light will shut this build down for you because the pop out of stealth damage is reduced by 50%. Currently the only build that seems like its abusive to cloak atm.

Think i died twice to this on my templar. While it was nuts, I knew exactly what was going on. It LOOKED abusive to cloak. But I also understood he was just using cloak as intended ( short bursts of just 1-2 seconds) to get the pop out of stealth bonus damage. Because he was using blur with speed he was moving around very quickly. I see nothing wrong with it. Thats it intended use and its all very very short timers. after 3-4 passes he would run away my guess b/c he was out of juice. Came back a few times to do it again. Finally got me once when i was fighting someone else.

That being said i had radiant on my bar next time and he was literally doing no damage to me. He would do 4 passes and only get me down to 55% without much healing and would run away. OFC me being a healer i had no offence for him but he left me alone after that. -Dusts Hands- Problem solved. All other uses for cloak that ive seen are just them running away and i see no reason to QQ about that because who cares. I didnt die so what lol. Let the rats run away fine with me. As far as IC goes you want those little critters to come at you. if and when you DO snag one they have tons of shards on them from running away and collecting. I dont see them as a threat when they come at my templar. I see them as a little cash bag running around swatting at me. That goes for anyone around me because Radiant is a AOE Buff. Honestly any healer in pvp that isnt using it is kinda derp to me. Reducing damage is just as important as healing it. Also most gankers go right for the healer anyways.

I don't have a problem with the tactic.

My point was that the majority of NBs on this thread are saying they need it as an escape, when most of the time that isn't actually how they use it.

Then they say to counter it use an ultimate or a potion that won't work properly and stops you using a "proper" potion.

All I'm asking for is a bit of honesty - like with WB... "Yeah, I use it - because it works!".

And no "Boohoo, I need it because I'm so squishy and need to run away".

Infinite12 · October 2015

Lol, they didn't completely remove blocking but they gimped DK's with that blocking nerf didn't they? Lol. A) ZoS doesn't know how to nerf things properly,

There is nothing wrong with cloak, like many people have pointed out here. It's completely defensive, it does no damage to you. Bolt escape is still far worse than cloak. It's basically still a get out of jail free card, the "nerf" to it was a joke. They need to focus more on sorcs. Mines, encase (which has no CC immunity), overload, bolt escape, velocious curse. If the NB's had that much of an advantage every single person would be petitioning for a huge nerf for the class. Somehow sorcs have gotten by with minimal nerfing AND they're going to get a hunding's rage-esque armor set to give them MORE damage. But yes, let's nerf cloak lol....

Jumper45 · October 2015

catalyst10e wrote: »

Why do NB assume the nerf to cloak is going to remove it entirely? They keep crying its their only defense like a nerf would mean they completely scrap it. Does lowering your ability to cast it forever really break your build? Stam blades have a limited use of the skill and still do just fine. It's not going away it'll most likely just get some sort of nerf that limits magicka regen or a slow creeping increase to cost at intervals of 5% or so.

Here is the problem with a higher cost per use. Getting the cloak to stick can be a pain sometimes. More importantly mid combat for ambush stamblades. Which already have a hard enough time with the cost. ( they can only get off a few before being out of magicka and since they dont use a staff they dont have a really good way to get magicka back unless there was a stamina morph for it. This is my guess why it never obtained the roll dodge nerf.

Removing magicka regen while under stealth WILL remove perma stealth from magicka NBs. Which is fine and my time on a Magicka NB healer would do the trick to block perma cloaking. But as ive said before. It wouldnt remove the situation as in pvp you arnt perma cloaking around. ( You need to be out of combat etc to perma cloak) Mid combat its still kinda pricey and Wouldnt leave you much magicka to do much else. Whats happening is they are cloaking 3-4 times then going into stealth mode ( which is perma for anyone def with the stamina reduce passives etc). I think the divide even between NBs is what works for magicka NB does not work for stamina NB. A blanket nerf would trash the viability for the build. Its not like perma blocking or anything because blocking is given. You need to spend a slot for cloak. Adding a cost would ruin Stam blades but not magicka ones.

I think the route right now is to fine tune it a little bit ( which they are doing right now ) with a few problems with the ability. But even adding the no regen would prevent perma cloak abuse i dont think it would change the situation of being the fact you cant be seen for long periods of time as that can be filled by stealth mode. It also has plenty of counters ( which they are tweaking right now) vs other setups that do not. ( you dont want added costs onto something that will just be countered within 0.5 seconds) It would be used as nothing more then a purge at that point in which case you mine as well just use purge to hit everyone other then yourself. Thats where the viable issues will come into play.
Cloak is a very very short timer i can personally tell you if you wanted to person cloak you literally could do nothing else. You will get ONE GCD before the cloak falls ( if even that) before having to cast again. Not to mention its not just one counter vs some other abilities but several and a multitude of ways to counter it and generally speaking someone will always have one of these on their bar.

Thats where you'll see the L2P Crusade pop up. Everyone generally has one of these counter abilities on their bar but dont do it properly or just unlucky with their aim or timing. The question is how do you change the ability to only effect the abuse and not its intended use. Its always hard. There are tons of ways to do it but ESO uses none of these routes in their game currently ( like CPs reducing the cost for stam blades only or removing the no Magicka regen while cloaked or making it stamina based etc.)

I dunno currently they are making it so using abilities under cloak will drop it or correcting the current counters. If that doesnt work then maybe some further nerfs are in its future like the no magicka regen etc.

Also and yes if cloak is trashed to a non viable point or taken away there will be a gaping hole in their defense. The reason cloak is used so much over anything else they have is because its universal to all the builds and abilities like fear just blow hard and do nothing vs ranged where wards work vs melee or ranged lol. Other classes will have wards/big heals SOMETHING etc. NB not so much. You can blame ZOS on that though.

catalyst10e · October 2015

Infinite12 wrote: »

Lol, they didn't completely remove blocking but they gimped DK's with that blocking nerf didn't they? Lol. A) ZoS doesn't know how to nerf things properly, There is nothing wrong with cloak, like many people have pointed out here. It's completely defensive, it does no damage to you. Bolt escape is still far worse than cloak. It's basically still a get out of jail free card, the "nerf" to it was a joke. They need to focus more on sorcs. Mines, encase (which has no CC immunity), overload, bolt escape, velocious curse. If the NB's had that much of an advantage every single person would be petitioning for a huge nerf for the class. Somehow sorcs have gotten by with minimal nerfing AND they're going to get a hunding's rage-esque armor set to give them MORE damage. But yes, let's nerf cloak lol....

Except for, in the case of bolt escape, it was being used exactly how Cloak is now, and instead of nerfing any of the "op" abilities you just listed they nerfed the actual problem which was Bolt escape. It was the heart of the real issue, even tho there were gap closing counters in place that could be used by every class. (all of this sounds familiar) Then it got a nerf, and the world didnt end. Cloak is being abused now, and needs to be looked at. You'll all make it through this nerf I promise you, it's going to be ok. And if it breaks your whole character and you rage quit, it kinda proves it was OP to begin with... "My character can't cloak 10 times anymore so i quit"

Jumper45 · October 2015

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Jumper45 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

juan0316 wrote: »

Oh look yet another nerf cloack topic, l2p

You're the one that's gonna have to actually l2p when your iwin button is nerfed

its not an i win button its im going invisible you have to stop pressing wb and find me button.

More usually it's the "I'm going invisible before I hit you with WB again" button.

The problem is that NBs here are saying that they need Cloak to escape, whereas the experience of other classes is that they use it to disengage before re-engaging. At the same time conveniently dropping any Dots that might have been applied.

It does amuse me to see people say they are playing an "assassin" class... with a 6 foot sword! Maybe if anyone wants to attack from stealth they should only be allowed to use a dagger

This is the WB/blur hit and run build. While it only works for a few passes it can seem kind of abusive of the build but -shrug- its just tactics really. It can be countered and can honestly tell you radiant light will shut this build down for you because the pop out of stealth damage is reduced by 50%. Currently the only build that seems like its abusive to cloak atm.

Think i died twice to this on my templar. While it was nuts, I knew exactly what was going on. It LOOKED abusive to cloak. But I also understood he was just using cloak as intended ( short bursts of just 1-2 seconds) to get the pop out of stealth bonus damage. Because he was using blur with speed he was moving around very quickly. I see nothing wrong with it. Thats it intended use and its all very very short timers. after 3-4 passes he would run away my guess b/c he was out of juice. Came back a few times to do it again. Finally got me once when i was fighting someone else.

That being said i had radiant on my bar next time and he was literally doing no damage to me. He would do 4 passes and only get me down to 55% without much healing and would run away. OFC me being a healer i had no offence for him but he left me alone after that. -Dusts Hands- Problem solved. All other uses for cloak that ive seen are just them running away and i see no reason to QQ about that because who cares. I didnt die so what lol. Let the rats run away fine with me. As far as IC goes you want those little critters to come at you. if and when you DO snag one they have tons of shards on them from running away and collecting. I dont see them as a threat when they come at my templar. I see them as a little cash bag running around swatting at me. That goes for anyone around me because Radiant is a AOE Buff. Honestly any healer in pvp that isnt using it is kinda derp to me. Reducing damage is just as important as healing it. Also most gankers go right for the healer anyways.

I don't have a problem with the tactic.

My point was that the majority of NBs on this thread are saying they need it as an escape, when most of the time that isn't actually how they use it.

Then they say to counter it use an ultimate or a potion that won't work properly and stops you using a "proper" potion.

All I'm asking for is a bit of honesty - like with WB... "Yeah, I use it - because it works!".

And no "Boohoo, I need it because I'm so squishy and need to run away".

Cloak is used FOR combat and to get OUT of combat much like bolt is or talon or reflective light etc. The WB build is somewhat ( and i cant stress somewhat) abusing it. But has nothing to do with the tons of other builds using it correctly.

The counters are being fixed as it is ( read the current patch notes) so they do work properly or are going to really soon here. There are minor counters mid counters and hard counters. Honestly no other ability has this much going against it. They will have one or 2 counters or some such. Cloak is also very simple. It doesnt instantly kill you or anything like that. Its Simple just an escape tool. Its like calling 8 cop cars for a speeding ticket at this point lol.

But whos to say whos using the Blur/WB build. There is no way to tell and I dont think cloak which everyone uses should get bashed because of one build.
And yes Boo Hoo they need it because they are squishy LMAO. They ARE Squishy. "rogue" types have always been in games. There is no holy grail ability that is viable vs something like cloak. They dont get a hardened ward ability. They dont get a reflect everything ability they dont get a massive heal ability. Hence why the NB your BSing meter is skyrocketing.

You dont need anyone to be truthful about it. You can test it yourself like I did. Short of OUT of combat walking around( Which effects no one) it works pretty much as intended.Its already not cheap, It can be broken, its very very short timer, can be broken by dots or any sort of damage, while it stops agro while under cloak it does not remove agro etc etc I'll be honest if you want to make cloak not function in any sort of way short of the already stealth mode Fine. Just give them a BOL,bolt,reflect, or a perma stealth like any other MMO yadda yadda like ability or something else to compensate.

You cant just take cookies out of the cookie jar without putting more back in. All youre left with is just an empty jar.

@catalyst10e Bolt is a far cry from cloak. They dont even function similar. Also streak doesnt really have any counters. You just GTFO and it works pretty much like that and only had a single counter. Gap closer.

Cloak is something different You dont cloak and jump ahead 15m . Youre still in range. They know the exact last known location etc. It doesnt stun people around you when you use it to buy you time to gtfo etc. The only reason the bolt nerf didnt smash it so hard is because it always does it what does. Moves you ahead 15m. Cloak will work or it does not. So if it has a high cost and does not work then what? It makes no sense.

Infinite12 · October 2015

catalyst10e wrote: »

Infinite12 wrote: »

Lol, they didn't completely remove blocking but they gimped DK's with that blocking nerf didn't they? Lol. A) ZoS doesn't know how to nerf things properly, There is nothing wrong with cloak, like many people have pointed out here. It's completely defensive, it does no damage to you. Bolt escape is still far worse than cloak. It's basically still a get out of jail free card, the "nerf" to it was a joke. They need to focus more on sorcs. Mines, encase (which has no CC immunity), overload, bolt escape, velocious curse. If the NB's had that much of an advantage every single person would be petitioning for a huge nerf for the class. Somehow sorcs have gotten by with minimal nerfing AND they're going to get a hunding's rage-esque armor set to give them MORE damage. But yes, let's nerf cloak lol....

Except for, in the case of bolt escape, it was being used exactly how Cloak is now, and instead of nerfing any of the "op" abilities you just listed they nerfed the actual problem which was Bolt escape. It was the heart of the real issue, even tho there were gap closing counters in place that could be used by every class. (all of this sounds familiar) Then it got a nerf, and the world didnt end. Cloak is being abused now, and needs to be looked at. You'll all make it through this nerf I promise you, it's going to be ok. And if it breaks your whole character and you rage quit, it kinda proves it was OP to begin with... "My character can't cloak 10 times anymore so i quit"

The problem was, and still is, that even with my gap closer I still run out of resources before the bolt escaping sorc does. A nightblade has to stay in the area with close, bolt escape is an almost guaranteed escape. And also, I can only cloak 3 times, that's it. I cannot cloak 10 times. All cloak is for me is something to give me a break to recover some of my resources. How is that abuse?

Shardaxx · October 2015

I'm a NB and other NBs are the class I worry about meeting in Cyrodiil the least, and get killed by the least.

Omgwtfbbq321 · October 2015

Jumper45 wrote: »

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

"You see all these Nightblades in The OC IC because most people are too lazy to modify their play style in the slightest in order to effectively counter Nightblades (or anyone else). "

^--Incorrect. You see Nightblades in IC because of this:
Attack player from stealth.

Start to lose fight.

Run to closest mobs pull agro.

Cloak and lose agro.

Watch mobs attack enemy player.

Re-engage when enemy player is vulnerable fighting from mobs.

Profit.

This is a L2P issue. This should have ended at step 4. Step 5, 6 and 7 is player error. Even if you went through step 5 then step 6 and 7 should not happen. This means the player KNOWINGLY decided to put themselves in that situation and also stick around for the last step. Any person in their right mind would have just ran from the mobs, Ran through the mobs or Not have ran into them in the first place. Anyone who sticks around to fight them mid fight deserves to get ganked. If said NB got away because of it then no harm no foul. The fight is a draw.

Also anyone can use their surroundings to their advantage. This is no different then me as a Templar healer healing NPC guards/mages/archers to kill people chasing me or attacking me. Id like to point out I single handedly protected a farm from 8 players simply by healing the NPC guards. a FAR cry from just a NB running away.

Are you mentally deficient? .

It was CLEAR that steps 5 and 6 were one example. It is also CLEAR that mobs chase you in IC for quite some time, dealing massive damage. (Bosses being the worst, chasing you around an entire zone.). You don't need to stand and fight to be bombarded with spells. A lot of the time you cant help but pick up more mobs when running.

The Nightblades in IC are the ONLY class that can use the NPCs to their advantage in such a powerful way. It has nothing to do with "L2P". It has nothing to do with skill.

Nightblades will always run into mobs and cloak. Even if you deal with the mobs. You know they are just waiting to try it again.

I am in no way suggesting a nerf to the class, nor am I saying they are OP in general. I am pointing out the OBVIOUS advantage they have, that they seem to HATE to admit.

Lord-Otto · October 2015

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Jumper45 wrote: »

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

tennant94 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

juan0316 wrote: »

Oh look yet another nerf cloack topic, l2p

You're the one that's gonna have to actually l2p when your iwin button is nerfed

its not an i win button its im going invisible you have to stop pressing wb and find me button.

More usually it's the "I'm going invisible before I hit you with WB again" button.

The problem is that NBs here are saying that they need Cloak to escape, whereas the experience of other classes is that they use it to disengage before re-engaging. At the same time conveniently dropping any Dots that might have been applied.

It does amuse me to see people say they are playing an "assassin" class... with a 6 foot sword! Maybe if anyone wants to attack from stealth they should only be allowed to use a dagger

This is the WB/blur hit and run build. While it only works for a few passes it can seem kind of abusive of the build but -shrug- its just tactics really. It can be countered and can honestly tell you radiant light will shut this build down for you because the pop out of stealth damage is reduced by 50%. Currently the only build that seems like its abusive to cloak atm.

Think i died twice to this on my templar. While it was nuts, I knew exactly what was going on. It LOOKED abusive to cloak. But I also understood he was just using cloak as intended ( short bursts of just 1-2 seconds) to get the pop out of stealth bonus damage. Because he was using blur with speed he was moving around very quickly. I see nothing wrong with it. Thats it intended use and its all very very short timers. after 3-4 passes he would run away my guess b/c he was out of juice. Came back a few times to do it again. Finally got me once when i was fighting someone else.

That being said i had radiant on my bar next time and he was literally doing no damage to me. He would do 4 passes and only get me down to 55% without much healing and would run away. OFC me being a healer i had no offence for him but he left me alone after that. -Dusts Hands- Problem solved. All other uses for cloak that ive seen are just them running away and i see no reason to QQ about that because who cares. I didnt die so what lol. Let the rats run away fine with me. As far as IC goes you want those little critters to come at you. if and when you DO snag one they have tons of shards on them from running away and collecting. I dont see them as a threat when they come at my templar. I see them as a little cash bag running around swatting at me. That goes for anyone around me because Radiant is a AOE Buff. Honestly any healer in pvp that isnt using it is kinda derp to me. Reducing damage is just as important as healing it. Also most gankers go right for the healer anyways.

I don't have a problem with the tactic.

My point was that the majority of NBs on this thread are saying they need it as an escape, when most of the time that isn't actually how they use it.

Then they say to counter it use an ultimate or a potion that won't work properly and stops you using a "proper" potion.

All I'm asking for is a bit of honesty - like with WB... "Yeah, I use it - because it works!".

And no "Boohoo, I need it because I'm so squishy and need to run away".

I hereby nominate you for the title of "Forum Sage of Truth"!
d(^_^)

SemiD4rkness · October 2015

Hurr durr don't nerf my cloak! Im superior to all classes becaude im the smartest player out there but suddenly if you nerf one single skill im gonna suuuck and rage quit. L2p nubs alsoo nerf sorcerers cause theyre the only class that stands a fight against us!

Tannakaobi · October 2015

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

The Nightblades in IC are the ONLY class that can use the NPCs to their advantage in such a powerful way. It has nothing to do with "L2P". It has nothing to do with skill.

Nightblades will always run into mobs and cloak. Even if you deal with the mobs. You know they are just waiting to try it again.

I am in no way suggesting a nerf to the class, nor am I saying they are OP in general. I am pointing out the OBVIOUS advantage they have, that they seem to HATE to admit.

I don't hate to admit this, it's obvious, but how can you change this? A simple mana cost nerf won't help.

SemiD4rkness · October 2015

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

The Nightblades in IC are the ONLY class that can use the NPCs to their advantage in such a powerful way. It has nothing to do with "L2P". It has nothing to do with skill.

Nightblades will always run into mobs and cloak. Even if you deal with the mobs. You know they are just waiting to try it again.

I am in no way suggesting a nerf to the class, nor am I saying they are OP in general. I am pointing out the OBVIOUS advantage they have, that they seem to HATE to admit.

I don't hate to admit this, it's obvious, but how can you change this? A simple mana cost nerf won't help.

Once you aggro mobs, you can't cloak until theyre all dead.

Bashev · October 2015

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

The Nightblades in IC are the ONLY class that can use the NPCs to their advantage in such a powerful way. It has nothing to do with "L2P". It has nothing to do with skill.

Nightblades will always run into mobs and cloak. Even if you deal with the mobs. You know they are just waiting to try it again.

I am in no way suggesting a nerf to the class, nor am I saying they are OP in general. I am pointing out the OBVIOUS advantage they have, that they seem to HATE to admit.

I don't hate to admit this, it's obvious, but how can you change this? A simple mana cost nerf won't help.

Once you aggro mobs, you can't cloak until theyre all dead.

I like it but then what is the purpose of this skill in PvE? Remove dots or getting 100% crit?

Tannakaobi · October 2015

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

The Nightblades in IC are the ONLY class that can use the NPCs to their advantage in such a powerful way. It has nothing to do with "L2P". It has nothing to do with skill.

Nightblades will always run into mobs and cloak. Even if you deal with the mobs. You know they are just waiting to try it again.

I am in no way suggesting a nerf to the class, nor am I saying they are OP in general. I am pointing out the OBVIOUS advantage they have, that they seem to HATE to admit.

I don't hate to admit this, it's obvious, but how can you change this? A simple mana cost nerf won't help.

Once you aggro mobs, you can't cloak until theyre all dead.

Well, as a mana base NB I can tell you that would be ridiculous in my opinion. That would leave me completely open to the mobs with no defence.

I can see the problem, but that's not the solution and I don't have a better one.

SemiD4rkness · October 2015

Tannakaobi wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

The Nightblades in IC are the ONLY class that can use the NPCs to their advantage in such a powerful way. It has nothing to do with "L2P". It has nothing to do with skill.

Nightblades will always run into mobs and cloak. Even if you deal with the mobs. You know they are just waiting to try it again.

I am in no way suggesting a nerf to the class, nor am I saying they are OP in general. I am pointing out the OBVIOUS advantage they have, that they seem to HATE to admit.

I don't hate to admit this, it's obvious, but how can you change this? A simple mana cost nerf won't help.

Once you aggro mobs, you can't cloak until theyre all dead.

Well, as a mana base NB I can tell you that would be ridiculous in my opinion. That would leave me completely open to the mobs with no defence.

I can see the problem, but that's not the solution and I don't have a better one.

Im sorry to tell you this but if you rely on one skill not to die to pve mobs then you're so dependant on it that you're simply a bad player without it. It's not like you have 1 skill to def and all others to attack.
There are three classes that survive without being invisible. And if you're gonna reply to this post don't you dare to bring up templars heals! Im a stamina one and im as tanky as a stam nb per say and i don't need to be invisible to survive in pve.

Ara_Valleria · October 2015

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

The Nightblades in IC are the ONLY class that can use the NPCs to their advantage in such a powerful way. It has nothing to do with "L2P". It has nothing to do with skill.

Nightblades will always run into mobs and cloak. Even if you deal with the mobs. You know they are just waiting to try it again.

I am in no way suggesting a nerf to the class, nor am I saying they are OP in general. I am pointing out the OBVIOUS advantage they have, that they seem to HATE to admit.

I don't hate to admit this, it's obvious, but how can you change this? A simple mana cost nerf won't help.

Once you aggro mobs, you can't cloak until theyre all dead.

Well, as a mana base NB I can tell you that would be ridiculous in my opinion. That would leave me completely open to the mobs with no defence.

I can see the problem, but that's not the solution and I don't have a better one.

Im sorry to tell you this but if you rely on one skill not to die to pve mobs then you're so dependant on it that you're simply a bad player without it. It's not like you have 1 skill to def and all others to attack.
There are three classes that survive without being invisible. And if you're gonna reply to this post don't you dare to bring up templars heals! Im a stamina one and im as tanky as a stam nb per say and i don't need to be invisible to survive in pve.

templars heals.
There I brought it up. Now What are you going to do about it ?

SemiD4rkness · October 2015

Ara_Valleria wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

The Nightblades in IC are the ONLY class that can use the NPCs to their advantage in such a powerful way. It has nothing to do with "L2P". It has nothing to do with skill.

Nightblades will always run into mobs and cloak. Even if you deal with the mobs. You know they are just waiting to try it again.

I am in no way suggesting a nerf to the class, nor am I saying they are OP in general. I am pointing out the OBVIOUS advantage they have, that they seem to HATE to admit.

I don't hate to admit this, it's obvious, but how can you change this? A simple mana cost nerf won't help.

Once you aggro mobs, you can't cloak until theyre all dead.

Well, as a mana base NB I can tell you that would be ridiculous in my opinion. That would leave me completely open to the mobs with no defence.

I can see the problem, but that's not the solution and I don't have a better one.

Im sorry to tell you this but if you rely on one skill not to die to pve mobs then you're so dependant on it that you're simply a bad player without it. It's not like you have 1 skill to def and all others to attack.
There are three classes that survive without being invisible. And if you're gonna reply to this post don't you dare to bring up templars heals! Im a stamina one and im as tanky as a stam nb per say and i don't need to be invisible to survive in pve.

templars heals.
There I brought it up. Now What are you going to do about it ?

Im trying to have a constructive discussion with a normal person over here, without hearts btw. Go troll some other dude im done with you.

WreckfulAbandon · October 2015

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

The Nightblades in IC are the ONLY class that can use the NPCs to their advantage in such a powerful way. It has nothing to do with "L2P". It has nothing to do with skill.

Nightblades will always run into mobs and cloak. Even if you deal with the mobs. You know they are just waiting to try it again.

I am in no way suggesting a nerf to the class, nor am I saying they are OP in general. I am pointing out the OBVIOUS advantage they have, that they seem to HATE to admit.

I don't hate to admit this, it's obvious, but how can you change this? A simple mana cost nerf won't help.

Once you aggro mobs, you can't cloak until theyre all dead.

Well, as a mana base NB I can tell you that would be ridiculous in my opinion. That would leave me completely open to the mobs with no defence.

I can see the problem, but that's not the solution and I don't have a better one.

Im sorry to tell you this but if you rely on one skill not to die to pve mobs then you're so dependant on it that you're simply a bad player without it. It's not like you have 1 skill to def and all others to attack.
There are three classes that survive without being invisible. And if you're gonna reply to this post don't you dare to bring up templars heals! Im a stamina one and im as tanky as a stam nb per say and i don't need to be invisible to survive in pve.

You're "tanky as a stam NB" what does that even mean?

And don't come onto the forums telling ppl what they can or can't bring up to argue. You don't need invisibility, good for you. So you want to gut or remove a mechanic that does not cater to your playstyle?

You said in your own NB QQ thread (although I can see you definitely make the rounds) that "if NB's weren't OP these threads would all die." That isn't how this works. There is so much misinformation on these forums put out by ppl who I'm not convinced have the best grasp of basic game mechanics. Cloak was miserably ineffective for quite some time, now that is actually (usually) works ppl like you refuse to adapt and learn to counter it.

NB's are easy to kill, we don't have Templar heals. Oops, I accidentally said it.

LBxFinalDeath · October 2015

I personally would rather see Camo Hunter get nerfed than Cloak.

Random light attack causing a 20K damage OHK camo hunter = GGs.

That seemingly can proc itself to do another 20K to make sure you're nice and rekt if you manage to survive.

It leaves people confused as to why the guy they were attacking died instantly.

Much more of a problem than cloak in the grand scheme of things.

SemiD4rkness · October 2015

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

The Nightblades in IC are the ONLY class that can use the NPCs to their advantage in such a powerful way. It has nothing to do with "L2P". It has nothing to do with skill.

Nightblades will always run into mobs and cloak. Even if you deal with the mobs. You know they are just waiting to try it again.

I am in no way suggesting a nerf to the class, nor am I saying they are OP in general. I am pointing out the OBVIOUS advantage they have, that they seem to HATE to admit.

I don't hate to admit this, it's obvious, but how can you change this? A simple mana cost nerf won't help.

Once you aggro mobs, you can't cloak until theyre all dead.

Well, as a mana base NB I can tell you that would be ridiculous in my opinion. That would leave me completely open to the mobs with no defence.

I can see the problem, but that's not the solution and I don't have a better one.

Im sorry to tell you this but if you rely on one skill not to die to pve mobs then you're so dependant on it that you're simply a bad player without it. It's not like you have 1 skill to def and all others to attack.
There are three classes that survive without being invisible. And if you're gonna reply to this post don't you dare to bring up templars heals! Im a stamina one and im as tanky as a stam nb per say and i don't need to be invisible to survive in pve.

You're "tanky as a stam NB" what does that even mean?

And don't come onto the forums telling ppl what they can or can't bring up to argue. You don't need invisibility, good for you. So you want to gut or remove a mechanic that does not cater to your playstyle?

You said in your own NB QQ thread (although I can see you definitely make the rounds) that "if NB's weren't OP these threads would all die." That isn't how this works. There is so much misinformation on these forums put out by ppl who I'm not convinced have the best grasp of basic game mechanics. Cloak was miserably ineffective for quite some time, now that is actually (usually) works ppl like you refuse to adapt and learn to counter it.

NB's are easy to kill, we don't have Templar heals. Oops, I accidentally said it.

The templar heals thing sounded kinda rude, wasn't my intention though was more like a joke that i made. Ofc it's a valid argument.
And no, cloak does not ''usually work great'' it's OP.

WreckfulAbandon · October 2015

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

The Nightblades in IC are the ONLY class that can use the NPCs to their advantage in such a powerful way. It has nothing to do with "L2P". It has nothing to do with skill.

Nightblades will always run into mobs and cloak. Even if you deal with the mobs. You know they are just waiting to try it again.

I am in no way suggesting a nerf to the class, nor am I saying they are OP in general. I am pointing out the OBVIOUS advantage they have, that they seem to HATE to admit.

I don't hate to admit this, it's obvious, but how can you change this? A simple mana cost nerf won't help.

Once you aggro mobs, you can't cloak until theyre all dead.

Well, as a mana base NB I can tell you that would be ridiculous in my opinion. That would leave me completely open to the mobs with no defence.

I can see the problem, but that's not the solution and I don't have a better one.

Im sorry to tell you this but if you rely on one skill not to die to pve mobs then you're so dependant on it that you're simply a bad player without it. It's not like you have 1 skill to def and all others to attack.
There are three classes that survive without being invisible. And if you're gonna reply to this post don't you dare to bring up templars heals! Im a stamina one and im as tanky as a stam nb per say and i don't need to be invisible to survive in pve.

You're "tanky as a stam NB" what does that even mean?

And don't come onto the forums telling ppl what they can or can't bring up to argue. You don't need invisibility, good for you. So you want to gut or remove a mechanic that does not cater to your playstyle?

You said in your own NB QQ thread (although I can see you definitely make the rounds) that "if NB's weren't OP these threads would all die." That isn't how this works. There is so much misinformation on these forums put out by ppl who I'm not convinced have the best grasp of basic game mechanics. Cloak was miserably ineffective for quite some time, now that is actually (usually) works ppl like you refuse to adapt and learn to counter it.

NB's are easy to kill, we don't have Templar heals. Oops, I accidentally said it.

The templar heals thing sounded kinda rude, wasn't my intention though was more like a joke that i made. Ofc it's a valid argument.
And no, cloak does not ''usually work great'' it's OP.

I can tell you right now, it doesn't work 100%. More like 60% of the time, every time. (It's actually way more reliable than 60%, I just couldn't help it)

Do I like that ppl use cloak to aggro mobs onto ppl? No, that's not my playstyle and I consider it dishonorable. But then again, this is war...

Do I think that using Vigor in cloak should allow stamblades to remain hidden? No, if magblades break cloak to heal than stamblades should too.

The ppl defending cloak aren't saying that it isn't a great skill, if sometimes a little unreliable. We're saying that there are counters out there that every player needs to get acquainted with. When IC first dropped, there was a lot of cloak QQ. It gradually dropped off as players learned to deal with it.

But then, ZOS states that they are "looking into ways" to "balance" it. And the QQers, encouraged by ZOS's vague statement, think "if it bleeds we can kill it" and revert to just trying to get it nerfed.

Most good players have learned how to deal with it by now. I have had to take steps to mitigate it on each of my characters, it's something we all deal with. And it might just be the number of NB's around these days, but those "kill NB" quests are getting turned in faster than ever. And they were always the quickest ones to turn in anyway.

SemiD4rkness · October 2015

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

The Nightblades in IC are the ONLY class that can use the NPCs to their advantage in such a powerful way. It has nothing to do with "L2P". It has nothing to do with skill.

Nightblades will always run into mobs and cloak. Even if you deal with the mobs. You know they are just waiting to try it again.

I am in no way suggesting a nerf to the class, nor am I saying they are OP in general. I am pointing out the OBVIOUS advantage they have, that they seem to HATE to admit.

I don't hate to admit this, it's obvious, but how can you change this? A simple mana cost nerf won't help.

Once you aggro mobs, you can't cloak until theyre all dead.

Well, as a mana base NB I can tell you that would be ridiculous in my opinion. That would leave me completely open to the mobs with no defence.

I can see the problem, but that's not the solution and I don't have a better one.

Im sorry to tell you this but if you rely on one skill not to die to pve mobs then you're so dependant on it that you're simply a bad player without it. It's not like you have 1 skill to def and all others to attack.
There are three classes that survive without being invisible. And if you're gonna reply to this post don't you dare to bring up templars heals! Im a stamina one and im as tanky as a stam nb per say and i don't need to be invisible to survive in pve.

You're "tanky as a stam NB" what does that even mean?

And don't come onto the forums telling ppl what they can or can't bring up to argue. You don't need invisibility, good for you. So you want to gut or remove a mechanic that does not cater to your playstyle?

You said in your own NB QQ thread (although I can see you definitely make the rounds) that "if NB's weren't OP these threads would all die." That isn't how this works. There is so much misinformation on these forums put out by ppl who I'm not convinced have the best grasp of basic game mechanics. Cloak was miserably ineffective for quite some time, now that is actually (usually) works ppl like you refuse to adapt and learn to counter it.

NB's are easy to kill, we don't have Templar heals. Oops, I accidentally said it.

The templar heals thing sounded kinda rude, wasn't my intention though was more like a joke that i made. Ofc it's a valid argument.
And no, cloak does not ''usually work great'' it's OP.

I can tell you right now, it doesn't work 100%. More like 60% of the time, every time. (It's actually way more reliable than 60%, I just couldn't help it)

Do I like that ppl use cloak to aggro mobs onto ppl? No, that's not my playstyle and I consider it dishonorable. But then again, this is war...

Do I think that using Vigor in cloak should allow stamblades to remain hidden? No, if magblades break cloak to heal than stamblades should too.

The ppl defending cloak aren't saying that it isn't a great skill, if sometimes a little unreliable. We're saying that there are counters out there that every player needs to get acquainted with. When IC first dropped, there was a lot of cloak QQ. It gradually dropped off as players learned to deal with it.

But then, ZOS states that they are "looking into ways" to "balance" it. And the QQers, encouraged by ZOS's vague statement, think "if it bleeds we can kill it" and revert to just trying to get it nerfed.

Most good players have learned how to deal with it by now. I have had to take steps to mitigate it on each of my characters, it's something we all deal with. And it might just be the number of NB's around these days, but those "kill NB" quests are getting turned in faster than ever. And they were always the quickest ones to turn in anyway.

Every skill that has ever been nerfed had a counter or two (hell even 10), doesn't mean it's balanced.
Cloak is too good of a skill right now and allows Nbs to aggro 10-20 mobs and many players and if *** goes wrong theyre able to get the hell out. And if he's a smart player non of the counters to cloak will get him killed.

WreckfulAbandon · October 2015

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

The Nightblades in IC are the ONLY class that can use the NPCs to their advantage in such a powerful way. It has nothing to do with "L2P". It has nothing to do with skill.

Nightblades will always run into mobs and cloak. Even if you deal with the mobs. You know they are just waiting to try it again.

I am in no way suggesting a nerf to the class, nor am I saying they are OP in general. I am pointing out the OBVIOUS advantage they have, that they seem to HATE to admit.

I don't hate to admit this, it's obvious, but how can you change this? A simple mana cost nerf won't help.

Once you aggro mobs, you can't cloak until theyre all dead.

Well, as a mana base NB I can tell you that would be ridiculous in my opinion. That would leave me completely open to the mobs with no defence.

I can see the problem, but that's not the solution and I don't have a better one.

Im sorry to tell you this but if you rely on one skill not to die to pve mobs then you're so dependant on it that you're simply a bad player without it. It's not like you have 1 skill to def and all others to attack.
There are three classes that survive without being invisible. And if you're gonna reply to this post don't you dare to bring up templars heals! Im a stamina one and im as tanky as a stam nb per say and i don't need to be invisible to survive in pve.

You're "tanky as a stam NB" what does that even mean?

And don't come onto the forums telling ppl what they can or can't bring up to argue. You don't need invisibility, good for you. So you want to gut or remove a mechanic that does not cater to your playstyle?

You said in your own NB QQ thread (although I can see you definitely make the rounds) that "if NB's weren't OP these threads would all die." That isn't how this works. There is so much misinformation on these forums put out by ppl who I'm not convinced have the best grasp of basic game mechanics. Cloak was miserably ineffective for quite some time, now that is actually (usually) works ppl like you refuse to adapt and learn to counter it.

NB's are easy to kill, we don't have Templar heals. Oops, I accidentally said it.

The templar heals thing sounded kinda rude, wasn't my intention though was more like a joke that i made. Ofc it's a valid argument.
And no, cloak does not ''usually work great'' it's OP.

I can tell you right now, it doesn't work 100%. More like 60% of the time, every time. (It's actually way more reliable than 60%, I just couldn't help it)

Do I like that ppl use cloak to aggro mobs onto ppl? No, that's not my playstyle and I consider it dishonorable. But then again, this is war...

Do I think that using Vigor in cloak should allow stamblades to remain hidden? No, if magblades break cloak to heal than stamblades should too.

The ppl defending cloak aren't saying that it isn't a great skill, if sometimes a little unreliable. We're saying that there are counters out there that every player needs to get acquainted with. When IC first dropped, there was a lot of cloak QQ. It gradually dropped off as players learned to deal with it.

But then, ZOS states that they are "looking into ways" to "balance" it. And the QQers, encouraged by ZOS's vague statement, think "if it bleeds we can kill it" and revert to just trying to get it nerfed.

Most good players have learned how to deal with it by now. I have had to take steps to mitigate it on each of my characters, it's something we all deal with. And it might just be the number of NB's around these days, but those "kill NB" quests are getting turned in faster than ever. And they were always the quickest ones to turn in anyway.

Every skill that has ever been nerfed had a counter or two (hell even 10), doesn't mean it's balanced.
Cloak is too good of a skill right now and allows Nbs to aggro 10-20 mobs and many players and if *** goes wrong theyre able to get the hell out. And if he's a smart player non of the counters to cloak will get him killed.

I consider myself a smart player, and have definitely been hounded down while trying to cloak by good players who knew what they were doing. Just last night I hunted down a stamblade who was trying to cloak away from me, and they very nearly got away. I don't even use mark on my NB, and when playing my magblade it's usually Steel Tornado, a simple AoE, that gets me busted.

NB's have very limited options for surviving, cloak is a much needed defensive tool. A lot of NB's use it offensively too, but the fact remains. NB's are the squishiest class by far (even after the terrible GDB nerf) and are definitely geared towards offense. I would be more than happy to tell you (as a Templar) how to counter cloak with minimal changes on your bar, but could you please (and I mean this sincerely) just try to think of ways to combat it? It really isn't too hard. To get good at this game you are going to have to die. A lot. If you can accept that and put in the time to improve you will probably never have to ask for nerfs on the forums again.

Jumper45 · October 2015

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

Jumper45 wrote: »

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

"You see all these Nightblades in The OC IC because most people are too lazy to modify their play style in the slightest in order to effectively counter Nightblades (or anyone else). "

^--Incorrect. You see Nightblades in IC because of this:
Attack player from stealth.

Start to lose fight.

Run to closest mobs pull agro.

Cloak and lose agro.

Watch mobs attack enemy player.

Re-engage when enemy player is vulnerable fighting from mobs.

Profit.

This is a L2P issue. This should have ended at step 4. Step 5, 6 and 7 is player error. Even if you went through step 5 then step 6 and 7 should not happen. This means the player KNOWINGLY decided to put themselves in that situation and also stick around for the last step. Any person in their right mind would have just ran from the mobs, Ran through the mobs or Not have ran into them in the first place. Anyone who sticks around to fight them mid fight deserves to get ganked. If said NB got away because of it then no harm no foul. The fight is a draw.

Also anyone can use their surroundings to their advantage. This is no different then me as a Templar healer healing NPC guards/mages/archers to kill people chasing me or attacking me. Id like to point out I single handedly protected a farm from 8 players simply by healing the NPC guards. a FAR cry from just a NB running away.

Are you mentally deficient? .

It was CLEAR that steps 5 and 6 were one example. It is also CLEAR that mobs chase you in IC for quite some time, dealing massive damage. (Bosses being the worst, chasing you around an entire zone.). You don't need to stand and fight to be bombarded with spells. A lot of the time you cant help but pick up more mobs when running.

The Nightblades in IC are the ONLY class that can use the NPCs to their advantage in such a powerful way. It has nothing to do with "L2P". It has nothing to do with skill.

Nightblades will always run into mobs and cloak. Even if you deal with the mobs. You know they are just waiting to try it again.

I am in no way suggesting a nerf to the class, nor am I saying they are OP in general. I am pointing out the OBVIOUS advantage they have, that they seem to HATE to admit.

Am I mentally deficient? Lol no i dont think so. Nice .. comeback? I guess? heh. More importantly there is a very CLEAR line in your situation of player skill and learning to play. NO ONE told you to walk into mobs. You say you cant help but walk into them but .... you dont have to.. Im not real sure where your line of reasoning is on this part though. You see mobs. They have a agro range and thankfully in ESO they even have a agro range indicator with a 1 maybe 1.5 seconds agro timer? What else do you need to not walk into mobs? This is the player skill/Learning to play part im speaking of. Also like I said assuming you arnt ..... Mentally Deficient as you put it so well... You shouldnt agro trash mobs unless you literally walk into them on purpose with those safety nets in place.

As for your bosses issue ....... They go right through cloak. So anyone and i mean anyone who tries to use a boss to kill another person will by my guess die as well unless someone takes action on the boss and agros it over whoever pulled it. You may want to look into that. Feel free to test that situation yourself. A couple of times please...

You also must have completely skipped over the rest of the post about Templars ( or any healer for that matter) using Good NPCs to their advantage to a much much much greater degree but thats not an issue right? Because they arnt night blades? Granted they arnt so much in IC but no need to act like people only PVP in IC. They have an situational advantage that you dont have so you cry foul is all it is. Not to mention its always been that way in all games with npcs and cloak.

Tannakaobi · October 2015

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

SemiD4rkness wrote: »

Tannakaobi wrote: »

Omgwtfbbq321 wrote: »

The Nightblades in IC are the ONLY class that can use the NPCs to their advantage in such a powerful way. It has nothing to do with "L2P". It has nothing to do with skill.

Nightblades will always run into mobs and cloak. Even if you deal with the mobs. You know they are just waiting to try it again.

I am in no way suggesting a nerf to the class, nor am I saying they are OP in general. I am pointing out the OBVIOUS advantage they have, that they seem to HATE to admit.

I don't hate to admit this, it's obvious, but how can you change this? A simple mana cost nerf won't help.

Once you aggro mobs, you can't cloak until theyre all dead.

Well, as a mana base NB I can tell you that would be ridiculous in my opinion. That would leave me completely open to the mobs with no defence.

I can see the problem, but that's not the solution and I don't have a better one.

Im sorry to tell you this but if you rely on one skill not to die to pve mobs then you're so dependant on it that you're simply a bad player without it. It's not like you have 1 skill to def and all others to attack.
There are three classes that survive without being invisible. And if you're gonna reply to this post don't you dare to bring up templars heals! Im a stamina one and im as tanky as a stam nb per say and i don't need to be invisible to survive in pve.

You clearly have no understanding of the magika Nightblade that I play.

Firstly I said it would leave me defenseless, I didn't say I would die. Take a look at some of the passives of the Nightblade: Master Assassin - Shadow Barrior - Dark Veil, all of them would basically be redundant without cloak on my build. Then there is concealed weapon which relies on cloak as a cc. and the only other shadow ability I use. Which without cloak I wouldn't bother with.

When fighting mobs I rely on cloak to keep out of their fire and to cc them with concealed weapon, this prevents me taking pretty much any damage with the combined use of Malefic Wreath and increases my own damage. Why would I not use it?

Then I look at the Lore of the Nightblade: (I keep pointing to this.)

Possibly the most feared class of all is the nightblade. They possess many of the skills and philosophy of the thiefly classes, combined with the powers of the mage. Their natural agility and stealth, and their mastery of the School of Illusion, means nightblades are seldom seen, though their hand is certainly felt.

Basically within the Lore of the game Cloak is the defining skill of the Nightblade. When I chose what class I wanted, I picked the one that was sneaky, invisible with high burst damage because that's what sounded interesting. Now you are telling me that such a build should not exist basically, and Why? Because you don't like it.

To sum up, I use cloak not because I need to rely on it, but because I choose to rely on it.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · October 2015

They finally get cloak to actually work as intended more than a year after launch, and immediately its time to nerf it. What complete and utter nonsense. A rogue class without true self heal or shield gets their escape ability to finally work. OMG the world is ending. There are so many ways to pull a NB out of cloak. I have never posted this on a forum, but Learn 2 Play (and quit your whining)!!!

Waffennacht · October 2015

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

They finally get cloak to actually work as intended more than a year after launch, and immediately its time to nerf it. What complete and utter nonsense. A rogue class without true self heal or shield gets their escape ability to finally work. OMG the world is ending. There are so many ways to pull a NB out of cloak. I have never posted this on a forum, but Learn 2 Play (and quit your whining)!!!

Go a head and list them... wait I will

Caltrops, need to do massive PvP, (after 110 days of playing only level 4 here) so far one decent (for an attacking NB)
Potions: work once if close and are rendered completely worthless there after (they can just recloak)
AoEs: well for a sorc the AoEs are either a cone shape with low likelihood of connecting, LL lmao, and bolt. Bolt is best but by far inconsistent
Curse: only works when it goes off and then they can recloak

And... and... um.. some absolutely horrid spell magelight and absolutely horrid flare

In which case even if you do use these they are hardly a guarantee to work. (Mind you this is just a reaction to them cloaking, nothing to do with the ACTUAL battle that's occuring) So while we have to have dedicated counters we also have to deal with the same buffs, damage, heals etc every other class deals with.

You act as if you do manage to counter cloak its an auto win, its not, its not even a long lasting de cloak.

Bolt almost never seems to actually get you away anymore fyi

I will agree that the escape use of cloak, and cloak itself is not the problem persai its in conjunction to the absolutely better abilities. (Offensively speaking which is the best defense remember)

Perma cloak is not an issue, just once is enough, and most use it for attacking anyway

CP5 · October 2015

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

They finally get cloak to actually work as intended more than a year after launch, and immediately its time to nerf it. What complete and utter nonsense. A rogue class without true self heal or shield gets their escape ability to finally work. OMG the world is ending. There are so many ways to pull a NB out of cloak. I have never posted this on a forum, but Learn 2 Play (and quit your whining)!!!

Because its 100% impossible that the skill would be deemed overpowered if it worked as intended since day 1. Having the skill been broken isn't justification for it to remain significantly more effective than other skills, just look at scales. Also, the world is ending? Just ask sorc's how they feel after so many nerfs, wait, people are still arguing that they are overpowered? Sure nb's will be fine.

WreckfulAbandon · October 2015

Waffennacht wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

They finally get cloak to actually work as intended more than a year after launch, and immediately its time to nerf it. What complete and utter nonsense. A rogue class without true self heal or shield gets their escape ability to finally work. OMG the world is ending. There are so many ways to pull a NB out of cloak. I have never posted this on a forum, but Learn 2 Play (and quit your whining)!!!

Go a head and list them... wait I will

Caltrops, need to do massive PvP, (after 110 days of playing only level 4 here) so far one decent (for an attacking NB)
Potions: work once if close and are rendered completely worthless there after (they can just recloak)
AoEs: well for a sorc the AoEs are either a cone shape with low likelihood of connecting, LL lmao, and bolt. Bolt is best but by far inconsistent
Curse: only works when it goes off and then they can recloak

And... and... um.. some absolutely horrid spell magelight and absolutely horrid flare

In which case even if you do use these they are hardly a guarantee to work. (Mind you this is just a reaction to them cloaking, nothing to do with the ACTUAL battle that's occuring) So while we have to have dedicated counters we also have to deal with the same buffs, damage, heals etc every other class deals with.

You act as if you do manage to counter cloak its an auto win, its not, its not even a long lasting de cloak.

Bolt almost never seems to actually get you away anymore fyi

I will agree that the escape use of cloak, and cloak itself is not the problem persai its in conjunction to the absolutely better abilities. (Offensively speaking which is the best defense remember)

Perma cloak is not an issue, just once is enough, and most use it for attacking anyway

What are you asking for here, a "Cloak Breaker" set? So none of the counters you listed are good enough for you?

Oh, wait, I see the problem here... 110 days played and only level 4 (I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're referring to the skill trees)? Given that, you probably don't understand how limited the class defense options of NB's truly are.

Was your first time PvPing in IC just to get v16 mats? If I was ever gonna tell someone to L2P I would do it right now, but I won't. I'll just say that you either haven't spent enough time actually trying to counter cloak or that your reflexes/strategy/skill level just are not up to par compared to even average PvPer's.

Your opinion on PvP balance is now pretty much worthless to me, unfortunately not so with ZOS I bet. You don't have to respond to me, I'd actually rather you not, given that you just admitted that you dunno wtf you're doing in PvP.

CP5 wrote: »

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

They finally get cloak to actually work as intended more than a year after launch, and immediately its time to nerf it. What complete and utter nonsense. A rogue class without true self heal or shield gets their escape ability to finally work. OMG the world is ending. There are so many ways to pull a NB out of cloak. I have never posted this on a forum, but Learn 2 Play (and quit your whining)!!!

Because its 100% impossible that the skill would be deemed overpowered if it worked as intended since day 1. Having the skill been broken isn't justification for it to remain significantly more effective than other skills, just look at scales. Also, the world is ending? Just ask sorc's how they feel after so many nerfs, wait, people are still arguing that they are overpowered? Sure nb's will be fine.

You can probably just stop posting in "nerf Cloak" threads at this point. I think we all know your response to anything anyone has to say about this topic : "the poor sorcs got nerfed, NB's deserve it too and will be fine."