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Immersion breaking new polymorps and mounts!
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Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And for the folks protesting the possible inclusion of the OP's polymorphs and mounts, was there outrage that no "backstory" was given for the Headless Horseman of Harnvir's Rest? You can see him in the game, but as far as I know there isn't any sort of quest or other ingame mechanic to tell his backstory.
When BGS did the Headless Horseman, they anchored it into the world and it performed a task, even if it was just leading the player to the graveyard. This is the difference between BGS putting the Headless Horseman into Skyrim and ZOS suggesting a jack o' lantern spirggan for the Crown Store. ZOS is not putting this in the world in any meaningful manner. If the players are intended to create the meaning, can we please have something that does not look so cliché?
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus3 -
Lnin0✭✭✭Many cultures and societies across time have harvest festivals and celebrations of the dead.....1 -
Orthodoxa✭✭✭theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »
And sorry, for me at least, when I see things in the game based upon real world culture, I don't think "Skyrim architecture", I think of their real world precedents moved into this fantasy world. And so a Pumpkin Head costume isn't out of place at all, nor are skeletal mounts. Both are featured in the mythologies that the Elder Scrolls uses as its' inspiration.Us "lore enthusiasts" don't like fire mounts, ice mounts, lightning mounts, scarecrows and jack-o-lantern all resemble other MMOs out there. They're too generic.
More than 99% of contemporary fantasy has a common ancestral thread that borrows from real-life theology, mythology, folk tales, oral horror (ghost stories), and classic literature. Almost everything put in a fantasy video game has been borrowed from some sort of written or oral history.
Very little of Elder Scrolls is original fantasy. It's an old idea with a new name and morphology. Calling out crown store items as too generic is holding up a mirror and seeing that fantasy as you know it now is generic. The only thing that changes is the technology it's viewed on.
ZOS doesn't just have Elder Scrolls to draw inspiration from. They have the entire fantasy playbook, which is both familiar and reliable. When Luwin said on Game of Thrones, "Maybe magic was once a mighty force in the world, but not anymore" he pretty much made the most mainstream assertion that just because you don't know about something doesn't mean it didn't happen. History forgets a lot of things. Rarely do you have an opportunity to really explore them.
Every purchase in the crown store is something that happened to somebody whether it was written down or not.
As right as you are, that hardly explains the poor method by which these crown store items are introduced. They stick out like a sore thumb when compared to previous TES games. Even mystical mounts like Shadowmere and Arvak were presented in a more respectable manner.
Part of what encompasses what some consider 'good writing' is how exactly they decide to "rehash" (for lack of a better term) their real life inspiration. Like most songs of today, plot devices and creatures are often taken from old-source inspirations within the same medium. Few things have not been done before anymore. But like the songs of today also, the reason people don't really identify them as the X things from which the new piece was inspired is because the modern incarnation has a significant amount of changes to make it seem original.
That 'pseudo-distinction' is what these crown store items seem to lack.
For all of the Celtic inspiration in the old ruins and structures of TESV:Skyrim, there was always a bit of a twist to how it was presented so that most people think "Skyrim architecture" instead of "Celtic architecture". I am not sure if I am communicating the idea adequately but....I suppose it is the HOW and not so much the WHAT that we concern ourselves with as far as the new crown store items go. With how they are implemented, the subjects present in the crown store currently seem to exempt themselves from all prior logic from which the rest of the game world spawned.
Which mythologies had the pumpkin head?
The most infamous myth is from The Legend of Sleepy Hollow, by Washington Irving -- which in turn was based upon earlier Celtic and Germanic myths. His version of the Headless Horseman would sometimes ride about with a Jack O'Lantern in place of his missing head.
Before anyone protests that Irving's tale is relatively modern, please note that the games' vampires are in like manner more influenced by Bram Stroker's tale than that of the medieval Nosferatu (the Bloodfiends fit into that latter meme well) and likewise the games Elves are obviously influenced by Tolkien -- they aren't the medieval mischievous imps that were also called elves.
The Skyrim game itself has a homage to the Irving tale, with an easter egg of a Headless Horseman who rides a spectral mount to Harnvir's Rest.
And for the folks protesting the possible inclusion of the OP's polymorphs and mounts, was there outrage that no "backstory" was given for the Headless Horseman of Harnvir's Rest? You can see him in the game, but as far as I know there isn't any sort of quest or other ingame mechanic to tell his backstory.
I may be wrong, but I don't think Irving's version was portrayed with a Jack O'Lantern for a head until the Disney movie. And I'm not sure the Celtics even had pumpkins. Paying homage to classical literature is fine as long as it's not... I don't know.. disruptive might be a good word? Jack O'Lanterns have such a commercial feel to them, that their inclusion just feels shoehorned and excessively campy.
I doesn't help that the costume bright yellow and orange.
Here's a painting of Irving's character that was made in 1858, long before Disney.
And that might be a big part of some people's hostility. If their only memory of the Irving story was the campy Disney movie, then that would influence their reaction. Here's another movie depiction that IMHO would fit right into an Elder Scrolls tale aside from Colonial dress and other such minor details.
https://youtu.be/SI1K-_VTFrQ
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Rampeal✭✭✭✭✭Found the history of the Jack o' Lantern
As the story goes, several centuries ago amongst myriad towns and villages in Ireland, there lived a drunkard known as "Stingy Jack". Jack was known throughout the land as a deceiver, manipulator and otherwise dreg of society. On a fateful night, the devil overheard the tale of Jack's evil deeds and silver tongue. Unconvinced (and envious) of the rumors, the devil went to find out for himself whether or not Jack lived up to his vile reputation.
Typical of Jack, he was drunk and wandering through the countryside at night when he came upon a body on his cobblestone path. The body with an eerie grimace on its face turned out to be Satan. Jack realized somberly this was his end; Satan had finally come to collect his malevolent soul. Jack made a last request: he asked Satan to let him drink ale before he departed to Hades. Finding no reason not to acquiesce the request, Satan took Jack to the local pub and supplied him with many alcoholic beverages. Upon quenching his thirst, Jack asked Satan to pay the tab on the ale, to Satan's surprise. Jack convinced Satan to metamorphose into a silver coin with which to pay the bartender (impressed upon by Jack's unyielding nefarious tactics). Shrewdly, Jack stuck the now transmogrified Satan (coin) into his pocket, which also contained a crucifix. The crucifix's presence kept Satan from escaping his form. This coerced Satan to agree to Jack's demand: in exchange for Satan's freedom, he had to spare Jack's soul for ten years.
Ten years later to the date when Jack originally struck his deal, he found himself once again in Satan's presence. Jack happened upon Satan in the same setting as before and seemingly accepted it was his time to go to Hades for good. As the Satan prepared to take him to hell, Jack asked if he could have one apple to feed his starving belly. Foolishly Satan once again agreed to this request. As Satan climbed up the branches of a nearby apple tree, Jack surrounded its base with crucifixes. Satan, frustrated at the fact that he been entrapped again, demanded his release. As Jack did before, he made a demand: that his soul never be taken by Satan into Hades. Satan agreed and was set free.
Eventually the drinking and unstable lifestyle took its toll on Jack; he died the way he lived. As Jack's soul prepared to enter Heaven through the gates of St. Peter he was stopped. Jack was told by God that because of his sinful lifestyle of deceitfulness and drinking, he was not allowed into Heaven. The dreary Jack went before the Gates of Hades and begged for commission into underworld. Satan, fulfilling his obligation to Jack, could not take his soul. To warn others, he gave Jack an ember, marking him a denizen of the netherworld. From that day on until eternity's end, Jack is doomed to roam the world between the planes of good and evil, with only an ember inside a hollowed turnip ("turnip" actually referring to a large rutabaga) to light his way.
There are many different versions of this story.
So he should have a Turnip head instead. "THEY ARE BREAKING LORE" lol jk
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Orthodoxa✭✭✭Found the history of the Jack o' Lantern
[snip
So he should have a Turnip head instead. "THEY ARE BREAKING LORE" lol jk
LOL, except that in Tamriel, just like in Colonial America where the change in vegetable was believed to have taken place, pumpkins are plentiful and make a much better looking Jack O'Lantern than a turnip.
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Orthodoxa✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »...If the players are intended to create the meaning, can we please have something that does not look so cliché?
As opposed to elves with bows, Norse-inspired helmets with horns on them, casting spells with staves, vampires, werewolves, etc. etc. etc.?1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »...If the players are intended to create the meaning, can we please have something that does not look so cliché?
As opposed to elves with bows, Norse-inspired helmets with horns on them, casting spells with staves, vampires, werewolves, etc. etc. etc.?
ExactlyXBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus2 -
eNumbra✭✭✭✭✭
As opposed to elves with bows, Norse-inspired helmets with horns on them, casting spells with staves, vampires, werewolves, etc. etc. etc.?
Horned helmets aren't even Norse inspired. There's no evidence the Vikings ever wore helmets with horns on them, its taken from popular depictions of Vikings, most likely originally created to help demonize them.
So its even worse than a regular cliche.3 -
Nic727✭✭✭✭I think polymorps is okay. Just don't want only skeletons. I want human or elvish polymorps.1 -
Rampeal✭✭✭✭✭
As opposed to elves with bows, Norse-inspired helmets with horns on them, casting spells with staves, vampires, werewolves, etc. etc. etc.?
Horned helmets aren't even Norse inspired. There's no evidence the Vikings ever wore helmets with horns on them, its taken from popular depictions of Vikings, most likely originally created to help demonize them.
So its even worse than a regular cliche.
In fact a lot of Vikings and Norse clans would pillage, plunder, and would use ANY Armor/weapons they came across. There have been Norse remains dug up that had been wearing armor from three different cultural backgrounds.
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Rampeal✭✭✭✭✭I want a polymorph that has a Crown made of elf ears, a necklace made out of Orc tusk, A vest made out of Khajiit fur, Boots and gloves made out of arrgoninan hide and the tail for the belt, Vampire fang ear rings, Daedroth skull shoulder pads, and a kilt made of werewolf tails.
Would be very lore friendly.1 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »Jack O'Lanterns have such a commercial feel to them, that their inclusion just feels shoehorned and excessively campy.
This one sentence has made me want an Evil Dead MMO...What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
Rampeal✭✭✭✭✭theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »Jack O'Lanterns have such a commercial feel to them, that their inclusion just feels shoehorned and excessively campy.
This one sentence has made me want an Evil Dead MMO...
End game would be us turning into deadites and Ash using the boomstick and then the chainsaw. Best MMO ever
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Rodvic✭✭✭If they actually put the stuff in the world and gave more lore on them than a throwaway sentence I doubt people would be as angry as they are.1 -
JKorr✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This sort of complaint is one that I find highly amusing.
The Elder Scrolls IP draws an immense amount of its' inspiration from real world cultures, from the "Romanesque" Imperials, to the "Arabised North African" culture of the Redguards, to the "Norse" Nords, the "British" Bretons and so on.
It is part of what I find personally appealing in the franchise, while having new stories, they are set in a mythologically somewhat familiar setting -- the storytellers don't really have to go into a huge amount of backstory to explain what a Wisp, Draugr, etc. is unless doing so enhances the overall story.
And with that said, none of the additions clash with the mythos that the Elder Scrolls uses as its' source of inspiration. Are folks who are so enraged by the Jack O'Lantern polymorph equally offended by Imperial places of worship that obviously are inspired by Medieval Catholic Churches, even including stained glass, and the vast multitude of similar items obviously inspired by real world culture?
To the argument that these items were (or will be) just popped in with no explanation, in a massively multiplayer game that is just plain silly. You meet new people ingame every single day and you were not there when they bought a mount at a stable (if they did so) and so on. Part of the fun of the Elder Scrolls for me has always been the exploration and surprises. In this MMO version, sometimes the surprises can be some style or item that another player is sporting that I had not noticed before.
I could understand folks being upset if they were introducing space ships or machine guns, but none of the items shown in the OP look out of place at all in a medieval fantasy setting -- which is what the ES franchise is.
Problem is, for the players from the ES single player games, there was usually an explanation somewhere. Might not be as elaborate as some people want, or as extensive, but there was a reason somewhere. Like the first time the draugr turned up in Bloodmoon. If you look around you'll find:
The Draugr found on the island of Solstheim are different from their mainland brethren. They were once a tribe similar to the Skaal. Trapped and starving on the island, they feasted on the flesh of their dead. The All-Maker saw this as a crime against nature, and cursed them to walk the land for eternity as undead, in search of more human flesh to consume.
There are pumpkins in the game. There are spriggans in the game. So far nothing to explain why a spriggan would need to wear a pumpkin head.1 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭LOL this is hilarious. A pumpkin polymorph just in time for halloween.
Can we get a Santa Polymorph for christmas too?0 -
kip_silverwolf✭✭✭✭✭The pumpkin polymorph is actually the ghost of this guy!
"I'm going to live forever..or at least die trying"
drunken Nord & Tamriel streaker since Arena1 -
bedlom✭✭✭✭✭
✭Immersion is my thing when it comes to gaming. But I really dont find these costumes immersion breaking just my opinion.
I find all these cartoony effects during combat way more immersion breaking. As a long time TES fan I really dont need any of these or any screen clutter.0 -
NobleNerd✭✭✭✭jeremiah911 wrote: »I want them and I like them. I wish people would stop using lore like its a holy grail or something as an excuse not to have neat things. It's a game and supposed to be fun. These items are just that. Lighten up people.
I agree 100%! This stuff looks awesome. It's elderscrolls *Ish* and it's fun. It's a game. The lore gods won't hurt you for saying you enjoy having fun... it's ok. lol.
We just need some lore oriented events, quests and mini games to go with the items!
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Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭That's all fine and good @Nichordius... the real issue is the Witches Festival has past. It was Frostfall (October) the 13th.
What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »LOL this is hilarious. A pumpkin polymorph just in time for halloween.
Can we get a Santa Polymorph for christmas too?
I'm sure we'll get something along the lines of santa-esque suit.What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
Osteos✭✭✭✭✭
✭That's all fine and good @Nichordius... the real issue is the Witches Festival has past. It was Frostfall (October) the 13th.
Oh Bologna!
1)The calendar in TES has changed over the years with different games. Skyrim matches our calendar but the others haven't.
2) With the current day and night cycles in ESO its impossible to know what the exact date is.
3) People from all over the world play this game for varying amounts on varying days. Having the Witches Festival only happen on 1 day would be really unfair to a lot of players.
The lore is important! But so is having a fun. You got your in-game explanation for these, which you stated was all you needed to accept them.
Stop being a stick in the mud snagged in a wet blanket
DAGGERFALL COVENANTNA PCFormer Vehemence MemberOnistka Valerius <> Artemis Renault <> Gonk gra-Ugrash <> Karietta <> Zercon at-Rusa <> Genevieve Renault <> Ktaka <> Brenlyn Renault1 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭thanks for posting this; it makes it easy for me to see yet another set of things I won't ever buy... eeeewwww!0 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
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Hate to be the bearer of bad news but these were revealed as coming along with a Zombie Horse and will be available between October 22nd up until Orsinium launch on PC. The Mind-Shriven Horse will also be unavailable as of said launch. As for the rest, datamining guarantees nothing beyond the fact the data exists.
Now then many of you don't want the stuff because it breaks immersion, is counter-intuitative to Nirn's ways, etc. but others do want them. Besides, we already have Draugr Wolves in this game so yeah they've already broken this wall down hard...
Also consider TESV: Skyrim had a headless horseman wandering around. So yeah this isn't really as unreasonable as many think and it's fair to those that have been crying out for holiday events.
Is this fair to everyone? No.
Is anything ever fair to everyone? No.
Is that just how it is? Yes.
There is no such thing as a game that can perfectly please every single one of its players. Those it doesn't please either quit or continue to play with a disgruntled demeanor.Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0 -
Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭UltimaJoe777 wrote: »
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but these were revealed as coming along with a Zombie Horse and will be available between October 22nd up until Orsinium launch on PC. The Mind-Shriven Horse will also be unavailable as of said launch. As for the rest, datamining guarantees nothing beyond the fact the data exists.
Now then many of you don't want the stuff because it breaks immersion, is counter-intuitative to Nirn's ways, etc. but others do want them. Besides, we already have Draugr Wolves in this game so yeah they've already broken this wall down hard...
Also consider TESV: Skyrim had a headless horseman wandering around. So yeah this isn't really as unreasonable as many think and it's fair to those that have been crying out for holiday events.
Is this fair to everyone? No.
Is anything ever fair to everyone? No.
Is that just how it is? Yes.
There is no such thing as a game that can perfectly please every single one of its players. Those it doesn't please either quit or continue to play with a disgruntled demeanor.
Not really; some of us play happily resting on all our crowns that we can spend on other things we don't find silly so it's all good.0 -
UltimaJoe777✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭UltimaJoe777 wrote: »
Hate to be the bearer of bad news but these were revealed as coming along with a Zombie Horse and will be available between October 22nd up until Orsinium launch on PC. The Mind-Shriven Horse will also be unavailable as of said launch. As for the rest, datamining guarantees nothing beyond the fact the data exists.
Now then many of you don't want the stuff because it breaks immersion, is counter-intuitative to Nirn's ways, etc. but others do want them. Besides, we already have Draugr Wolves in this game so yeah they've already broken this wall down hard...
Also consider TESV: Skyrim had a headless horseman wandering around. So yeah this isn't really as unreasonable as many think and it's fair to those that have been crying out for holiday events.
Is this fair to everyone? No.
Is anything ever fair to everyone? No.
Is that just how it is? Yes.
There is no such thing as a game that can perfectly please every single one of its players. Those it doesn't please either quit or continue to play with a disgruntled demeanor.
Not really; some of us play happily resting on all our crowns that we can spend on other things we don't find silly so it's all good.
Which was the point I was making lol one man's trash is another man's treasure and all that.Guildmaster of Power With Numbers in PS4 NA Server's Aldmeri Dominion.
Proud Founder of the Yaysay cult! DOWN WITH THE NAYSAY CULT!! #ToxicRemedy0
