So with the removal of Veteran Levels how do you propose that enemy NPCs are scaled in Cadwell Silver, Cadwell Gold, Craglorn, Cyrodiil, The Imperial City and all future DLCs?

Would you like them to have their own version of battle scaling?

Would you like them to be set at different levels of Champion Points (This will be funny watching new players complete any content after level 50)?

I believe the reason why Veteran Levels have not been removed is because it sets a good base level to set enemy NPCs stats at in any given zone that everybody can understand. Not only that, it makes creating content more simplistic without having to worry where players have spent their Champion Points. Removing Veteran Levels would make the game a nightmare and ZOS know this.

Also removal of Veteran Level would mean a total overhaul of crafting and gear. The very thing that is at the center of all RPGs. Yes you can say you are playing for the story, but it's the gear that makes your mouth water.

If you really want a game where everyone has the same skills, same gear and so on, then there are several hundred games available already to cater to your needs. This however is an MMORPG, that means spending time leveling, learning, farming, wandering around looking for trouble, understanding that certain classes are going to be better in certain areas where others aren't. If you are unable to stomach spending time doing this then I'm afraid that this is the wrong genre for you to be playing.

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

@stewart.leslie76b16_ESO

Some information for you: https://youtu.be/5Rtw2wfJaLU?t=52m50s

Yes, however saying they are committed to doing something without going into any detail on how it is to be done means they don't know how to do it without massive fallout, and it will be massive.

I've presented several points as to why it has not been done from NPCs to gear with reasons behind my views. It's common sense.

Ok, let's say for arguments sake that Veteran Levels are going to be removed as of March 2016, 1 of 2 things will happen.
First, all gear will be at the same level. That mean removal of all Veteran Crafting Materials and Recipes. A lot of people have spent time and effort getting the things they need to create the top end items. I think more people are going to be upset about this then having to earn 13,600,000 xp.

The second, the items will be linked to the amount of CP you've earned. So to wear the current high level items you will need to have earned hundreds of CP. How many people are going to be upset at that, bear in mind you need 400,000 xp to earn 1 CP?

Result in either of these is a mass exodus unless there is a very nice sweetener involved.

Ok, now let's look at enemy NPCs. I know if I kill a Vet1 NPC what xp I'll get and the kind of gear that will drop. If they all become the same level, how do I know what they will give? Also for new players that haven't got any CP yet, are they going to be able to compete in the area or are they going to have to go to a lower level area in order to grind xp to get CP in order to progress?

And what about those that have CP already, are these area going to be made significantly easier for them, or are the NPCs going to scale to make it a challenge for them? And in this case what happens when a lower level player comes into the fight?

Result, well, I don't think new players are going to be too frilled to know they are going to have a nightmare after they've finished getting their levels.

Also, if they are so committed to removing Veteran Levels, then why the increase? Any argument for the increase can easily be countered.

There is a simple solution to these problems, but due to laws they are unable to do this. But it is to hire a 5 year old child on the pre development team. If you explain your idea to the 5 year old child and they think it's a good idea, then proceed. If the child looks at you in a funny way, then obviously it's going to fail. And any 5 year old child will see that removing the veteran system is going to cause serious problems.

However, this is a public forum that is monitored by the moderators, if you present an idea for the removal that doesn't get torn to shreds, I'm pretty sure that the idea will be presented to the development team to look at. You never know you might get a private message from them giving you a reward.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

So with the removal of Veteran Levels how do you propose that enemy NPCs are scaled in Cadwell Silver, Cadwell Gold, Craglorn, Cyrodiil, The Imperial City and all future DLCs?

Would you like them to have their own version of battle scaling?

Would you like them to be set at different levels of Champion Points (This will be funny watching new players complete any content after level 50)?

I believe the reason why Veteran Levels have not been removed is because it sets a good base level to set enemy NPCs stats at in any given zone that everybody can understand. Not only that, it makes creating content more simplistic without having to worry where players have spent their Champion Points. Removing Veteran Levels would make the game a nightmare and ZOS know this.

Also removal of Veteran Level would mean a total overhaul of crafting and gear. The very thing that is at the center of all RPGs. Yes you can say you are playing for the story, but it's the gear that makes your mouth water.

If you really want a game where everyone has the same skills, same gear and so on, then there are several hundred games available already to cater to your needs. This however is an MMORPG, that means spending time leveling, learning, farming, wandering around looking for trouble, understanding that certain classes are going to be better in certain areas where others aren't. If you are unable to stomach spending time doing this then I'm afraid that this is the wrong genre for you to be playing.

Scale them to 50 surely? If VR goes, we'll all be 50 at cap, therefore all mobs, armour and weapons etc should also be 50.

well I think it will make for some interesting combos, master and maelstrom daggers working together seems like a pretty nice combo. That's the only one you will be able to use in conjunction with another, except for the shield but that doesn't provide a bonus for any ability from the 1h/s line.

Yes agree, all masters weapons at the same base weapon and spell dmg would be nice. The knock back from masters destro are not worth the spell dmg loss in my opinion.

.

Imdrefan wrote: »

The removal of veteran ranks has been a carrot on stick for a while. The illusion of content is being created by constantly having to re craft gear as the VR cap gets raised. It happened from VR10-12 then 12-14 then 14-16 and it will happen again.

?

When each of those changes came, they came with actual new content, not just illusions.

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Guys, they said they're removing the veteran ranks. I'm just saying that I hope they keep the power of master weapons equal; that way people can choose their preferred master weapon without penalty. That's all

also why raise the VR to 16 if their just going to remove them theres no logic in that

Xabien wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

So with the removal of Veteran Levels how do you propose that enemy NPCs are scaled in Cadwell Silver, Cadwell Gold, Craglorn, Cyrodiil, The Imperial City and all future DLCs?

Would you like them to have their own version of battle scaling?

Would you like them to be set at different levels of Champion Points (This will be funny watching new players complete any content after level 50)?

I believe the reason why Veteran Levels have not been removed is because it sets a good base level to set enemy NPCs stats at in any given zone that everybody can understand. Not only that, it makes creating content more simplistic without having to worry where players have spent their Champion Points. Removing Veteran Levels would make the game a nightmare and ZOS know this.

Also removal of Veteran Level would mean a total overhaul of crafting and gear. The very thing that is at the center of all RPGs. Yes you can say you are playing for the story, but it's the gear that makes your mouth water.

If you really want a game where everyone has the same skills, same gear and so on, then there are several hundred games available already to cater to your needs. This however is an MMORPG, that means spending time leveling, learning, farming, wandering around looking for trouble, understanding that certain classes are going to be better in certain areas where others aren't. If you are unable to stomach spending time doing this then I'm afraid that this is the wrong genre for you to be playing.

Scale them to 50 surely? If VR goes, we'll all be 50 at cap, therefore all mobs, armour and weapons etc should also be 50.

Yup. Really simple when you think about it.
Cadwell's should have been optional from the very start.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

Scale them to 50 surely? If VR goes, we'll all be 50 at cap, therefore all mobs, armour and weapons etc should also be 50.

But you still have the problem with the current gear and recipes in game, that is where the fallout is going to come from and it will not be a pretty sight. Who's going to tell the person that has farmed for 950 VERY rare crafting materials that their V16 armour is going to be taken away from them?

Who says it needs to be taken away? Scale those armours down to lvl 50.

Xabien wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Xabien wrote: »

Scale them to 50 surely? If VR goes, we'll all be 50 at cap, therefore all mobs, armour and weapons etc should also be 50.

But you still have the problem with the current gear and recipes in game, that is where the fallout is going to come from and it will not be a pretty sight. Who's going to tell the person that has farmed for 950 VERY rare crafting materials that their V16 armour is going to be taken away from them?

Who says it needs to be taken away? Scale those armours down to lvl 50.

Ok, to be fair, the stuff to make lvl 46-50 are even rarer, but the quantities involved was nowhere near as horrific. But saying scale it down to level 50, well what are you saying exactly? Because scaling all armour to 50 is going to cause problems, for example to make V16 heavy armour you need 10 in metalwork, but to make lvl 46-50 armour you only need 5. So it either means having different tiers of lvl 50 (which in effect that is exactly what V1-16 does) armour that increases in protection which means you can jump from wearing lvl 48 armour till you hit 50 and jump straight to the V16 armour if you have the gold or resources to make it. Or, removing them totally from the game. But removing them from the game just means they will be implemented later under a different name as the character level rises, and it will rise. The final result would be ZOS spending more money for doing the same job.

Bah, I'll just force people to read over providing links lol.

This is how itemization could work:

Riko_Futatabi wrote:

Perhaps they will apply the Veteran Ranks to items only?

For example in the vid I posted, Matt says that we'll be back to level 50. So instead of our characters having these Veteran Ranks, perhaps all the items from equipment to crafting mats will have the "Veteran Rank" tag instead, as a way to differentiate between the items power. So VR will ultimately become the "Item level", if you understand this concept from previous MMOs.

For those that don't understand what I mean by "Item Level". This means if capped at Lv50, then all items currently touched by Veteran Ranks(Post-Lv50 items) are also equipable/usable at Lv50, but they have different values.

So for example, you could have a Greatsword made with Voidstone ingots and its "Item Level" can be that of VR 9-14. Or you can choose to make a Greatsword with Galatite ingots and its "Item Level" would be that of VR 4-6. Both Greatswords can be equipped at Level 50, but have different power values.

I'm sure there are many other questions on peoples minds such as "What level VR will zones be?" and I also wonder this. I'm not sure, but they may all just be level 50. I haven't thought much about that yet lol. But I can't see a problem with them being Lv50.

@Strider_Roshin I'm sorry this thread got taken down the road of "I think the ranks will stay, I like them." "They're getting removed." "No they aren't." "Yes they are." "Prove it brah." etc.

My quote may provide an explanation on your question about the Master Weapons. I do think all these Master Weapons should scale to as low or high as possible though. Since they do seems like the most interesting weapons in the game that are not apart of an item set.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

@stewart.leslie76b16_ESO

I went to sleep right after I posted that. However, I understand that we don't know how everything is going to change and this is why I made a thread about this a couple weeks back with many questions and some interesting discussions. You can check it out here if you like.

Also, once you click this link to my thread you will also be able to click a link next to the question about how VR Crafting Mats might work whilst still using the Veteran Rank system. In fact I'll just post a link to that specific post here too.

Yes but you are basing all your information on player speculation, just as I'm basing my comments on player speculation. Now unless the entire development team is filled with YES men, then it is fair to assume that the same argument is being made within the development offices otherwise the changes would have already happened. Points to note, an argument is not a heated discussion but presenting information that counters another.

The fact is though that Veteran levels have increased twice already, once being after the fact it has been stated they want to remove it.

Now my theory is that the reason why the change has not taken place is because the accountant has seen that it makes no financial sense to remove it or even bother with making a name change on it as the evolution of all MMORPGs involve the character level rising. It is inevitable the levels will rise as seen on the last DLC.

Look at WoW, the hard cap is 60, but with each expansion the cap is raised to 110. And that is just one example. If you were an accountant and you see data like this, would you authorise spending money to remove levels in order to put them back in later?

We know where TES likes to spend it's money when it comes to development, you just need to look at the voice actor cast for the series. Personally I'd rather have the money spent on Kate Beckinsale finishing her story as to what happened with the purple velvet dress.

Not to be rude but, did you even attempt to watch the Vid to the point when Matt said "sometime after Orsinium". And yes, if you want to make a hyperbolic response then you could say "Well that could be anytime from then until the sun has burned out."

Honestly I'm tired of "debating" it and I'd rather have conversations on how it will change the game. With that being said, my previous links and posts are all I need to say. We'll see what happens by the end of the year and I'll try my best to stop posting on such threads anymore lol.