Fix the macro users

Herbatio · October 2015

Please fix the macro users ingame.
Sincerely, paying customer (not for long)

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Bashing & Slanderous Comments]

Winnamine · October 2015

Don't sugarcoat it now. Express yourself!

Speely · October 2015

Tell us how you really feel.

Yonkit · October 2015

Macros don't let you cast anything faster, in fact, they're usually much slower than actual human speed. So. L2P.

Anazasi · October 2015

Macro= ability to activate multiple keys that produce animation canceling in rapid succession.

DannyLV702 · October 2015

Wow i never knew this existed. Is it exclusive to PC?

Teargrants · October 2015

FriedEggSandwich · October 2015

Chill. As someone who has pvp'd fairly constantly for well over a year I can assure you that macro users are the least of your problems, and are certainly not the main reason you die. As @Yonkit pointed out; macros are more likely to gimp you in pvp. If you want to actually survive in pvp then the buttons you press should depend on the animations and particle effects you see from your opponent. You react to what you see. Macros can't read the battlefield or your opponent and therefore are too rigid to be useful in pvp. The only macro I can think of that might be useful in pvp would be 'light attack > skill' but this is so easy to do manually that you'd not be gaining a real advantage by using that macro.

What you're probably experiencing are people animation cancelling with mmo mice such as the razer naga. Combine this with all the types of latency you get in cyro and it can look like your opponent is doing something abnormal. I have been asked by opponents if I used macros, and my Templar guildie who uses a lot of channels has also been asked if he macros lol. We don't. We just have all our skills under our right thumb and know our rotations and game mechanics better than we know our own family.

Get yourself an mmo mouse and teach yourself to animation cancel, and once the muscle memory is there you will be able to compete.

LeoTheBatiamigo · October 2015

Didn't even know this was an issue

FriedEggSandwich · October 2015

LeoTheBatiamigo wrote: »

Didn't even know this was an issue

It's not.

Akinos · October 2015

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Chill. As someone who has pvp'd fairly constantly for well over a year I can assure you that macro users are the least of your problems, and are certainly not the main reason you die. As @Yonkit pointed out; macros are more likely to gimp you in pvp. If you want to actually survive in pvp then the buttons you press should depend on the animations and particle effects you see from your opponent. You react to what you see. Macros can't read the battlefield or your opponent and therefore are too rigid to be useful in pvp. The only macro I can think of that might be useful in pvp would be 'light attack > skill' but this is so easy to do manually that you'd not be gaining a real advantage by using that macro.

What you're probably experiencing are people animation cancelling with mmo mice such as the razer naga. Combine this with all the types of latency you get in cyro and it can look like your opponent is doing something abnormal. I have been asked by opponents if I used macros, and my Templar guildie who uses a lot of channels has also been asked if he macros lol. We don't. We just have all our skills under our right thumb and know our rotations and game mechanics better than we know our own family.

Get yourself an mmo mouse and teach yourself to animation cancel, and once the muscle memory is there you will be able to compete.

So what you're saying is that you are bad at the game, probably have T-Rex arms IRL and need extra hardware/software in order to automate certain in game functions? Well said, spoken like a true macro user.
Pushing buttons on your mouse doesn't somehow make them faster then pushing them on your keyboard.

Seriously, anybody that feels the need to automate gameplay for PvP...smh. Just uninstall already.

Galalin · October 2015

Agreed... the only issue here is l2p... just as @Yonkit said macros will only help low reaction time players to slightly improve them... good players do it much more effectively and not to mention different situations call for different animation canceling sequences... the only advice i have is what eas previously stated... learn to animation cancel and practice it until your the one ppl are crying about.

DK SCRUB OUT

Akinos · October 2015

double post on accident.

FriedEggSandwich · October 2015

Akinos wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Chill. As someone who has pvp'd fairly constantly for well over a year I can assure you that macro users are the least of your problems, and are certainly not the main reason you die. As @Yonkit pointed out; macros are more likely to gimp you in pvp. If you want to actually survive in pvp then the buttons you press should depend on the animations and particle effects you see from your opponent. You react to what you see. Macros can't read the battlefield or your opponent and therefore are too rigid to be useful in pvp. The only macro I can think of that might be useful in pvp would be 'light attack > skill' but this is so easy to do manually that you'd not be gaining a real advantage by using that macro.

What you're probably experiencing are people animation cancelling with mmo mice such as the razer naga. Combine this with all the types of latency you get in cyro and it can look like your opponent is doing something abnormal. I have been asked by opponents if I used macros, and my Templar guildie who uses a lot of channels has also been asked if he macros lol. We don't. We just have all our skills under our right thumb and know our rotations and game mechanics better than we know our own family.

Get yourself an mmo mouse and teach yourself to animation cancel, and once the muscle memory is there you will be able to compete.

So what you're saying is that you are bad at the game, probably have T-Rex arms IRL and need extra hardware/software in order to automate certain in game functions? Well said, spoken like a true macro user.
Pushing buttons on your mouse doesn't somehow make them faster then pushing them on your keyboard.

Seriously, anybody that feels the need to automate gameplay for PvP...smh. Just uninstall already.

/facepalm

Galalin · October 2015

Anazasi wrote: »

Macro= ability to activate multiple keys that produce animation canceling in rapid succession.

Just false

DK SCRUB OUT

AhPook_Is_Here · October 2015

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Wow i never knew this existed. Is it exclusive to PC?

yes, it's a software program that scripts out a string of key-presses with pauses, holds and so on. It streamlines things like light attack weaving and signing your e-mails.

Akinos · October 2015

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Chill. As someone who has pvp'd fairly constantly for well over a year I can assure you that macro users are the least of your problems, and are certainly not the main reason you die. As @Yonkit pointed out; macros are more likely to gimp you in pvp. If you want to actually survive in pvp then the buttons you press should depend on the animations and particle effects you see from your opponent. You react to what you see. Macros can't read the battlefield or your opponent and therefore are too rigid to be useful in pvp. The only macro I can think of that might be useful in pvp would be 'light attack > skill' but this is so easy to do manually that you'd not be gaining a real advantage by using that macro.

What you're probably experiencing are people animation cancelling with mmo mice such as the razer naga. Combine this with all the types of latency you get in cyro and it can look like your opponent is doing something abnormal. I have been asked by opponents if I used macros, and my Templar guildie who uses a lot of channels has also been asked if he macros lol. We don't. We just have all our skills under our right thumb and know our rotations and game mechanics better than we know our own family.

Get yourself an mmo mouse and teach yourself to animation cancel, and once the muscle memory is there you will be able to compete.

So what you're saying is that you are bad at the game, probably have T-Rex arms IRL and need extra hardware/software in order to automate certain in game functions? Well said, spoken like a true macro user.
Pushing buttons on your mouse doesn't somehow make them faster then pushing them on your keyboard.

Seriously, anybody that feels the need to automate gameplay for PvP...smh. Just uninstall already.

/facepalm

Yeah you facepalm lol, you might be able to defend yourself against macro accusations, but you cannot say that nobody in this game macros or blame it on latency. There ARE people that macro in this game. Among other unlegit ways to play. FACT.

FriedEggSandwich · October 2015

Akinos wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Akinos wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Chill. As someone who has pvp'd fairly constantly for well over a year I can assure you that macro users are the least of your problems, and are certainly not the main reason you die. As @Yonkit pointed out; macros are more likely to gimp you in pvp. If you want to actually survive in pvp then the buttons you press should depend on the animations and particle effects you see from your opponent. You react to what you see. Macros can't read the battlefield or your opponent and therefore are too rigid to be useful in pvp. The only macro I can think of that might be useful in pvp would be 'light attack > skill' but this is so easy to do manually that you'd not be gaining a real advantage by using that macro.

What you're probably experiencing are people animation cancelling with mmo mice such as the razer naga. Combine this with all the types of latency you get in cyro and it can look like your opponent is doing something abnormal. I have been asked by opponents if I used macros, and my Templar guildie who uses a lot of channels has also been asked if he macros lol. We don't. We just have all our skills under our right thumb and know our rotations and game mechanics better than we know our own family.

Get yourself an mmo mouse and teach yourself to animation cancel, and once the muscle memory is there you will be able to compete.

So what you're saying is that you are bad at the game, probably have T-Rex arms IRL and need extra hardware/software in order to automate certain in game functions? Well said, spoken like a true macro user.
Pushing buttons on your mouse doesn't somehow make them faster then pushing them on your keyboard.

Seriously, anybody that feels the need to automate gameplay for PvP...smh. Just uninstall already.

/facepalm

Yeah you facepalm lol, you might be able to defend yourself against macro accusations, but you cannot say that nobody in this game macros or blame it on latency. There ARE people that macro in this game. Among other unlegit ways to play. FACT.

Quote the bit where I denied they were used. I said they're not an issue, not that they didn't exist. I've never used a macro for anything and I genuinely believe that I have an advantage in pvp over people that do use them. I could of course be wrong, but I will only change my mind if presented with hard evidence that they can be used to do things my fingers can't.

Ackwalan · October 2015

Most macro users don't string together long macros. They tie animation cancelling into individual attacks, or have follow up abilities after some attacks. Like have cloak macro'd in with ambush.

For the people screaming 'L2P', we know you are desperately trying to deflect and protect your macro use.

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO · October 2015

Animation cancelling is legitimate? Sweet, tomorrow I'm going to win the Grand Prix, I'll just cancel the animation of me driving the car.

FriedEggSandwich · October 2015

Ackwalan wrote: »

Most macro users don't string together long macros. They tie animation cancelling into individual attacks, or have follow up abilities after some attacks. Like have cloak macro'd in with ambush.

For the people screaming 'L2P', we know you are desperately trying to deflect and protect your macro use.

I understand how macros work and realise that shorter ones would be more useful for pvp than longer ones. But I still think that to use them is to overcomplicate things. Take your example of the cloak into ambush macro; what if you want to cloak but not ambush? You then have to have a button for cloak, a button for ambush and a button for the cloak>ambush macro. The more of these little macros you have the more buttons you have to include into your rotation and the more scope there is for mistake. Not useful imo. If you programmed a light attack before every skill you could avoid having extra buttons, but sometimes I want skill into skill with no weapon attack in between, what then? PvP is too dynamic for even simple macros to give you any advantage imo. Now if you could program a macro to break-free whenever you were cc'd I would say that would give you an unfair advantage, but I don't think that's possible without hacking the game in some way.

Ackwalan · October 2015

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Most macro users don't string together long macros. They tie animation cancelling into individual attacks, or have follow up abilities after some attacks. Like have cloak macro'd in with ambush.

For the people screaming 'L2P', we know you are desperately trying to deflect and protect your macro use.

I understand how macros work and realise that shorter ones would be more useful for pvp than longer ones. But I still think that to use them is to overcomplicate things. Take your example of the cloak into ambush macro; what if you want to cloak but not ambush? You then have to have a button for cloak, a button for ambush and a button for the cloak>ambush macro. The more of these little macros you have the more buttons you have to include into your rotation and the more scope there is for mistake. Not useful imo. If you programmed a light attack before every skill you could avoid having extra buttons, but sometimes I want skill into skill with no weapon attack in between, what then? PvP is too dynamic for even simple macros to give you any advantage imo. Now if you could program a macro to break-free whenever you were cc'd I would say that would give you an unfair advantage, but I don't think that's possible without hacking the game in some way.

You don't have to macro every ability you have. With the number of buttons available on gaming mice, you can have your 'I win' button and 'run away' button, and still have the standard setup for you abilities.

FriedEggSandwich · October 2015

Ackwalan wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Most macro users don't string together long macros. They tie animation cancelling into individual attacks, or have follow up abilities after some attacks. Like have cloak macro'd in with ambush.

For the people screaming 'L2P', we know you are desperately trying to deflect and protect your macro use.

I understand how macros work and realise that shorter ones would be more useful for pvp than longer ones. But I still think that to use them is to overcomplicate things. Take your example of the cloak into ambush macro; what if you want to cloak but not ambush? You then have to have a button for cloak, a button for ambush and a button for the cloak>ambush macro. The more of these little macros you have the more buttons you have to include into your rotation and the more scope there is for mistake. Not useful imo. If you programmed a light attack before every skill you could avoid having extra buttons, but sometimes I want skill into skill with no weapon attack in between, what then? PvP is too dynamic for even simple macros to give you any advantage imo. Now if you could program a macro to break-free whenever you were cc'd I would say that would give you an unfair advantage, but I don't think that's possible without hacking the game in some way.

You don't have to macro every ability you have. With the number of buttons available on gaming mice, you can have your 'I win' button and 'run away' button, and still have the standard setup for you abilities.

I use a naga 2014 and I believe you, but still don't see where the massive advantage lies. I could probably string together a macro that cast all my shields together with a 'tap-block' in between to cancel the animations. But I do this manually so frequently that it's fixed in my muscle memory, and even if a macro could do it 0.4 seconds faster I wouldn't enjoy the lack of control. Can these macros be interrupted? I'm guessing they can in the same way skills can be interrupted. But I have so many 'oh snip' moments in pvp where I have to forget whatever I was doing a fraction of a second ago and hit dodge-roll or streak or healing ward with immediate urgency, I really wouldn't want macros getting in the way. People rage about macros when they think they were hit by 5 skills in the blink of an eye, I believe they are wrong.

SleepyTroll · October 2015

Do you have proof?

Teargrants · October 2015

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Animation cancelling is legitimate? Sweet, tomorrow I'm going to win the Grand Prix, I'll just cancel the animation of me driving the car.

Let's not get our panties in a bunch. The ZOS devs have specifically stated that while unforeseen during development, they approve of animation cancelling and see it as emergent gameplay. They have no plans to remove or alter it in the future, not to mention, end game PvE content is balanced around DPS checks that require animation cancelling so...

If you don't like animation cancelling, take it up w/ Eric Wrobel.

Ackwalan · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Animation cancelling is legitimate? Sweet, tomorrow I'm going to win the Grand Prix, I'll just cancel the animation of me driving the car.

Let's not get our panties in a bunch. The ZOS devs have specifically stated that while unforeseen during development, they approve of animation cancelling and see it as emergent gameplay. They have no plans to remove or alter it in the future, not to mention, end game PvE content is balanced around DPS checks that require animation cancelling so...

If you don't like animation cancelling, take it up w/ Eric Wrobel.

Do you have a link for that quote? I seem to remember them saying they didn't have a fix for it, so they weren't going to call it an exploit.

Teargrants · October 2015

Ackwalan wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Animation cancelling is legitimate? Sweet, tomorrow I'm going to win the Grand Prix, I'll just cancel the animation of me driving the car.

Let's not get our panties in a bunch. The ZOS devs have specifically stated that while unforeseen during development, they approve of animation cancelling and see it as emergent gameplay. They have no plans to remove or alter it in the future, not to mention, end game PvE content is balanced around DPS checks that require animation cancelling so...

If you don't like animation cancelling, take it up w/ Eric Wrobel.

Do you have a link for that quote? I seem to remember them saying they didn't have a fix for it, so they weren't going to call it an exploit.

Perhaps this would enlighten you? From one of the ESO Lives last year:

Ackwalan · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Animation cancelling is legitimate? Sweet, tomorrow I'm going to win the Grand Prix, I'll just cancel the animation of me driving the car.

Let's not get our panties in a bunch. The ZOS devs have specifically stated that while unforeseen during development, they approve of animation cancelling and see it as emergent gameplay. They have no plans to remove or alter it in the future, not to mention, end game PvE content is balanced around DPS checks that require animation cancelling so...

If you don't like animation cancelling, take it up w/ Eric Wrobel.

Do you have a link for that quote? I seem to remember them saying they didn't have a fix for it, so they weren't going to call it an exploit.

Perhaps this would enlighten you? From one of the ESO Lives last year:

That is a lot different then saying its "emergent gameplay" When something is "Not exactly intended" it is broken gameplay.

SleepyTroll · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Animation cancelling is legitimate? Sweet, tomorrow I'm going to win the Grand Prix, I'll just cancel the animation of me driving the car.

Let's not get our panties in a bunch. The ZOS devs have specifically stated that while unforeseen during development, they approve of animation cancelling and see it as emergent gameplay. They have no plans to remove or alter it in the future, not to mention, end game PvE content is balanced around DPS checks that require animation cancelling so...

If you don't like animation cancelling, take it up w/ Eric Wrobel.

But macros are not aloud.

Poxheart · October 2015

SleepyTroll wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Animation cancelling is legitimate? Sweet, tomorrow I'm going to win the Grand Prix, I'll just cancel the animation of me driving the car.

Let's not get our panties in a bunch. The ZOS devs have specifically stated that while unforeseen during development, they approve of animation cancelling and see it as emergent gameplay. They have no plans to remove or alter it in the future, not to mention, end game PvE content is balanced around DPS checks that require animation cancelling so...

If you don't like animation cancelling, take it up w/ Eric Wrobel.

But macros are not aloud.

Only if you don't have a mechanical keyboard.

Teargrants · October 2015

Ackwalan wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

stewart.leslie76b16_ESO wrote: »

Animation cancelling is legitimate? Sweet, tomorrow I'm going to win the Grand Prix, I'll just cancel the animation of me driving the car.

Let's not get our panties in a bunch. The ZOS devs have specifically stated that while unforeseen during development, they approve of animation cancelling and see it as emergent gameplay. They have no plans to remove or alter it in the future, not to mention, end game PvE content is balanced around DPS checks that require animation cancelling so...

If you don't like animation cancelling, take it up w/ Eric Wrobel.

Do you have a link for that quote? I seem to remember them saying they didn't have a fix for it, so they weren't going to call it an exploit.

Perhaps this would enlighten you? From one of the ESO Lives last year:

That is a lot different then saying its "emergent gameplay" When something is "Not exactly intended" it is broken gameplay.

That was the first thing I could find. There's a number of other dev responses on the forums if you want to look for them. At this point you're just splitting hairs over diction and phraseology, what matters is that ZOS does not deem this a bug or exploit and has not plans to change it.