Armor Master and why you're using it wrong.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · October 2015

I know it may sound like a troll post off the title but really it's a great Tank Set. As long as it's Medium Armor with 5m 2l or 5m 2h you can be a great Tank with tons of regen if you used Immovable + Armor Master and a power that grants both minor buffs you will have Tank level damage mitigation with DPS level regeneration.

Now if you craft this set heavy it's a waste ZoS has had some pretty laughable sets but this one frees Tanks from the Five Heavy while still having the resistance to not get one shotted.

Personofsecrets · October 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I know it may sound like a troll post off the title but really it's a great Tank Set. As long as it's Medium Armor with 5m 2l or 5m 2h you can be a great Tank with tons of regen if you used Immovable + Armor Master and a power that grants both minor buffs you will have Tank level damage mitigation with DPS level regeneration.

Now if you craft this set heavy it's a waste ZoS has had some pretty laughable sets but this one frees Tanks from the Five Heavy while still having the resistance to not get one shotted.

why is it bad as heavy armor?

Usara · October 2015

Lol try tanking the IC dungeons in medium Armor Master. And take pictures ! We want to laugh too.

RizaHawkeye · October 2015

Usara wrote: »

Lol try tanking the IC dungeons in medium Armor Master. And take pictures ! We want to laugh too.

Completely off-topic, but @Usara you have the best sig! I love your characters names and backstories!

Have an awesome!

Yakidafi · October 2015

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

Usara wrote: »

Lol try tanking the IC dungeons in medium Armor Master. And take pictures ! We want to laugh too.

Completely off-topic, but @Usara you have the best sig! I love your characters names and backstories!

Have an awesome!

Sarcasm detected? Bcs sig is bigger then his post...

i3ig_Gun · October 2015

Your goal with armor master is 25k Physical and spell resistance

once you pop unstoppable you will peak over the 33k mitigation cap (with 5 peice armor master)

Leaving you plenty of room to spend skills and champion points to help you with damage

I used to run sword and board on both bars, but because of armor master, i can now switch to a 2 hander and deal some mean damage (after I've proc'd unstoppable, since the extra bonuses from armor master doest fall off for 20 seconds.)

I now run sword and board, and 2H, with 5 peice armor master, 3 peice endurance, and 3 peice night mothers (both medium with 2H sword)

Doing great ATM in my tank spec.

Usara · October 2015

Yakidafi wrote: »

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

Usara wrote: »

Lol try tanking the IC dungeons in medium Armor Master. And take pictures ! We want to laugh too.

Completely off-topic, but @Usara you have the best sig! I love your characters names and backstories!

Have an awesome!

Sarcasm detected? Bcs sig is bigger then his post...

Bah, I posted because Zen removed "LOL" but I recognized that my comment was far from being an in-depth analysis

So yep, for dailies, no arguments from me : medium armor master, I don't doubt it works well. But as far as I'm concerned, my guildmates healers tank in healer stuff with just a taunt and a sword/shield in dailies.

In IC dungeons : what good is your medium armor ? Regen stam ? Why ? You don't regen when blocking. Weapon crit ? Or maybe improved sneaking ? Great passive for a tank ! (yes, THAT is sarcasm)

But then, if I want my "HL" tanks to wear heavy, I don't like Armor Master. That is just my opinion though, I don't think it's a good set : mostly because of the spell res which we don't need, we have so many already.... and the extra life... yeah, no thanks. I know some tanks do love their 30k+ HP and being low in stam and/or magicka, nothing wrong with that I guess... but that's not how I like to play my tanks. Just a question of taste.

So yep, to be back on track : I'm not saying tanking in medium Armor Master is impossible in IC dungeons, but at best it would be for fun and/or challenge, and certainly not for optimization

Edit : and thank you @RizaHawkeye

Xjcon · October 2015

Usara wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

Usara wrote: »

Lol try tanking the IC dungeons in medium Armor Master. And take pictures ! We want to laugh too.

Completely off-topic, but @Usara you have the best sig! I love your characters names and backstories!

Have an awesome!

Sarcasm detected? Bcs sig is bigger then his post...

Bah, I posted because Zen removed "LOL" but I recognized that my comment was far from being an in-depth analysis

So yep, for dailies, no arguments from me : medium armor master, I don't doubt it works well. But as far as I'm concerned, my guildmates healers tank in healer stuff with just a taunt and a sword/shield in dailies.

In IC dungeons : what good is your medium armor ? Regen stam ? Why ? You don't regen when blocking. Weapon crit ? Or maybe improved sneaking ? Great passive for a tank ! (yes, THAT is sarcasm)

But then, if I want my "HL" tanks to wear heavy, I don't like Armor Master. That is just my opinion though, I don't think it's a good set : mostly because of the spell res which we don't need, we have so many already.... and the extra life... yeah, no thanks. I know some tanks do love their 30k+ HP and being low in stam and/or magicka, nothing wrong with that I guess... but that's not how I like to play my tanks. Just a question of taste.

So yep, to be back on track : I'm not saying tanking in medium Armor Master is impossible in IC dungeons, but at best it would be for fun and/or challenge, and certainly not for optimization

Edit : and thank you @RizaHawkeye

Not to mention you won't get constatution which in itself isn't that great but it's something to go along with the other ways you need to recover stamina while not being 1 shot by bosses in harder content.

Forestd16b14_ESO · October 2015

So your pretty much saying is "Lets drive the final nail into HA coffin and use nothing but MA and LA." No Armor Master was suppose to be a amazing tank set till ZOS nerfed it even before it went live by making so you need to use one of those terrible armor skills.

HA skill Immovable we all know the story with it and why it's nothing but useless and side note of ZOS nerfing HA even more by taking out one of it's greatest passives of reduce break free cost from its passive and slapping it into one of immovable morphs. Sham ZOS jsut sham.

MA skill Evasion yes some argue that it is good but does a dodge increase to 20% really help that much when tanks are suppose to be taking hits from most of the enemies?

LA skill Annulment does not help against physical damage at all and to tanks that's a giant gap in our armor. Sure can "absorb" X amount of magic damage but what about the giant sword or mace that's currently going into your skull?

Fix Armor Master and buff HA simple as the sky is blue.

damtotb16_ESO · October 2015

Fix Armor Master and buff HA simple as the sky is blue.[/quote]

No offence m8, did you ever tank since you asking buff for HA?

AngryNord · October 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I know it may sound like a troll post off the title but really it's a great Tank Set. As long as it's Medium Armor with 5m 2l or 5m 2h you can be a great Tank with tons of regen if you used Immovable + Armor Master and a power that grants both minor buffs you will have Tank level damage mitigation with DPS level regeneration.

Now if you craft this set heavy it's a waste ZoS has had some pretty laughable sets but this one frees Tanks from the Five Heavy while still having the resistance to not get one shotted.

The fact that Tanks perform WORSE in full heavy armour, is the only sign needed that this game is on the wrong course.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · October 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I know it may sound like a troll post off the title but really it's a great Tank Set. As long as it's Medium Armor with 5m 2l or 5m 2h you can be a great Tank with tons of regen if you used Immovable + Armor Master and a power that grants both minor buffs you will have Tank level damage mitigation with DPS level regeneration.

Now if you craft this set heavy it's a waste ZoS has had some pretty laughable sets but this one frees Tanks from the Five Heavy while still having the resistance to not get one shotted.

why is it bad as heavy armor?

In heavy you will be so far pass the Cap that the bonus will not matter over 33k resistance is not counter only good if you get debuffed.

Usara wrote: »

Lol try tanking the IC dungeons in medium Armor Master. And take pictures ! We want to laugh too.

I have and with twice the regeneration and the same health and resistance wouldn't have made a post if I don't try it out first.

AngryNord wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I know it may sound like a troll post off the title but really it's a great Tank Set. As long as it's Medium Armor with 5m 2l or 5m 2h you can be a great Tank with tons of regen if you used Immovable + Armor Master and a power that grants both minor buffs you will have Tank level damage mitigation with DPS level regeneration.

Now if you craft this set heavy it's a waste ZoS has had some pretty laughable sets but this one frees Tanks from the Five Heavy while still having the resistance to not get one shotted.

The fact that Tanks perform WORSE in full heavy armour, is the only sign needed that this game is on the wrong course.

Sadly yes I changed my Tank from 5 heavy armor to 5 medium Armor Master and two light my power to stay alive without the healer's heals and shards Night and God damn Day.

@Usara my Tank is a Nightblade I can't block much to start with so I only block power hits Blur on my off bar, Caltrops permanently down for Siphoning Attacks plus the 2k regen Vigor and Rally both with back to back crits.

In 5 Heavy armor when Siphoning Attacks dropped and I don't see it I would die cause I would be burning so much magic and stamina and the light attack return is the most cruel joke @ZOS_RichLambert ever made, in medium I regeneration enough stamina to lay down caltrops and get my stamina back.

Elvenpath · October 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I know it may sound like a troll post off the title but really it's a great Tank Set. As long as it's Medium Armor with 5m 2l or 5m 2h you can be a great Tank with tons of regen if you used Immovable + Armor Master and a power that grants both minor buffs you will have Tank level damage mitigation with DPS level regeneration.

Now if you craft this set heavy it's a waste ZoS has had some pretty laughable sets but this one frees Tanks from the Five Heavy while still having the resistance to not get one shotted.

why is it bad as heavy armor?

In heavy you will be so far pass the Cap that the bonus will not matter over 33k resistance is not counter only good if you get debuffed.

Usara wrote: »

Lol try tanking the IC dungeons in medium Armor Master. And take pictures ! We want to laugh too.

I have and with twice the regeneration and the same health and resistance wouldn't have made a post if I don't try it out first.

AngryNord wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I know it may sound like a troll post off the title but really it's a great Tank Set. As long as it's Medium Armor with 5m 2l or 5m 2h you can be a great Tank with tons of regen if you used Immovable + Armor Master and a power that grants both minor buffs you will have Tank level damage mitigation with DPS level regeneration.

Now if you craft this set heavy it's a waste ZoS has had some pretty laughable sets but this one frees Tanks from the Five Heavy while still having the resistance to not get one shotted.

The fact that Tanks perform WORSE in full heavy armour, is the only sign needed that this game is on the wrong course.

Sadly yes I changed my Tank from 5 heavy armor to 5 medium Armor Master and two light my power to stay alive without the healer's heals and shards Night and God damn Day.

@Usara my Tank is a Nightblade I can't block much to start with so I only block power hits Blur on my off bar, Caltrops permanently down for Siphoning Attacks plus the 2k regen Vigor and Rally both with back to back crits.

In 5 Heavy armor when Siphoning Attacks dropped and I don't see it I would die cause I would be burning so much magic and stamina and the light attack return is the most cruel joke @ZOS_RichLambert ever made, in medium I regeneration enough stamina to lay down caltrops and get my stamina back.

First, it's still possible to permablock with a nightblade tank when you are using full heavy. And second, you dont need stam regen at all maybe a bit is ok. I'm tanking veteran wgt and prison with my current build. Probably you are missing something. You only need magicka regen as a nb tank.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · October 2015

Elvenpath wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I know it may sound like a troll post off the title but really it's a great Tank Set. As long as it's Medium Armor with 5m 2l or 5m 2h you can be a great Tank with tons of regen if you used Immovable + Armor Master and a power that grants both minor buffs you will have Tank level damage mitigation with DPS level regeneration.

Now if you craft this set heavy it's a waste ZoS has had some pretty laughable sets but this one frees Tanks from the Five Heavy while still having the resistance to not get one shotted.

why is it bad as heavy armor?

In heavy you will be so far pass the Cap that the bonus will not matter over 33k resistance is not counter only good if you get debuffed.

Usara wrote: »

Lol try tanking the IC dungeons in medium Armor Master. And take pictures ! We want to laugh too.

I have and with twice the regeneration and the same health and resistance wouldn't have made a post if I don't try it out first.

AngryNord wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

I know it may sound like a troll post off the title but really it's a great Tank Set. As long as it's Medium Armor with 5m 2l or 5m 2h you can be a great Tank with tons of regen if you used Immovable + Armor Master and a power that grants both minor buffs you will have Tank level damage mitigation with DPS level regeneration.

Now if you craft this set heavy it's a waste ZoS has had some pretty laughable sets but this one frees Tanks from the Five Heavy while still having the resistance to not get one shotted.

The fact that Tanks perform WORSE in full heavy armour, is the only sign needed that this game is on the wrong course.

Sadly yes I changed my Tank from 5 heavy armor to 5 medium Armor Master and two light my power to stay alive without the healer's heals and shards Night and God damn Day.

@Usara my Tank is a Nightblade I can't block much to start with so I only block power hits Blur on my off bar, Caltrops permanently down for Siphoning Attacks plus the 2k regen Vigor and Rally both with back to back crits.

In 5 Heavy armor when Siphoning Attacks dropped and I don't see it I would die cause I would be burning so much magic and stamina and the light attack return is the most cruel joke @ZOS_RichLambert ever made, in medium I regeneration enough stamina to lay down caltrops and get my stamina back.

First, it's still possible to permablock with a nightblade tank when you are using full heavy. And second, you dont need stam regen at all maybe a bit is ok. I'm tanking veteran wgt and prison with my current build. Probably you are missing something. You only need magicka regen as a nb tank.

I run a Stamina Tank not a magic Tank, Siphoning Attacks used to be great when it was percent based I get a third the stamina I used to permanently blocking is just not an option.

Using Caltrops to keep up some extra stamina is great in 5 HA I died without them down now it's just a nice bonus stamina return.

Hiero_Glyph · October 2015

There are a few light armor tanks that use this set rather effectively due to stacking it with skills like Rune Focus. Add in Evasion and what many see as a pointless skill/armor set becomes a quite nice evasive tank similar to red mage/ninja from FFXI. Equip other mitigation tools like a 1h/s, use Inner Fire for taunting, and have effective healing and you can become self-sufficient to a degree (just need other DPS). The only bad part of the set is that it tends to be overkill on most heavy armor setups but there are other interesting heavy armor sets to use.

Ommamar · October 2015

It is interesting no one uses the 5 piece then one from each of the other armor types to take advantage of the Undaunted passive. Do people feel it not worth doing that?

Hiero_Glyph · October 2015

Ommamar wrote: »

It is interesting no one uses the 5 piece then one from each of the other armor types to take advantage of the Undaunted passive. Do people feel it not worth doing that?

It depends on the build but typically mitigiation is more important than just stacking health. As a light tank I go 5/1/1 for the added 6% stats and stack Imperial racials and Armor Master on top of this is nice but mitigation is generally more important since it can effectively double your health. It really depends on the build and player preference. Keep in mind that a 5/2 setup still gets a 4% undaunted mettle bonus so you really only lose 2%.

Usara · October 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

@Usara my Tank is a Nightblade I can't block much to start with so I only block power hits Blur on my off bar, Caltrops permanently down for Siphoning Attacks plus the 2k regen Vigor and Rally both with back to back crits.

I run regularly with 2 NB magicka tanks of my guild. They do perma block, with no issue. But they don't waste their stam on caltrops.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · October 2015

Usara wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

@Usara my Tank is a Nightblade I can't block much to start with so I only block power hits Blur on my off bar, Caltrops permanently down for Siphoning Attacks plus the 2k regen Vigor and Rally both with back to back crits.

I run regularly with 2 NB magicka tanks of my guild. They do perma block, with no issue. But they don't waste their stam on caltrops.

I run a DPS tank if I want to just block I would run my heavy DK magic tank my Nightblade Tank's Role is more then just taunting. But that's me.

Usara · October 2015

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Usara wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

@Usara my Tank is a Nightblade I can't block much to start with so I only block power hits Blur on my off bar, Caltrops permanently down for Siphoning Attacks plus the 2k regen Vigor and Rally both with back to back crits.

I run regularly with 2 NB magicka tanks of my guild. They do perma block, with no issue. But they don't waste their stam on caltrops.

I run a DPS tank if I want to just block I would run my heavy DK magic tank my Nightblade Tank's Role is more then just taunting. But that's me.

I assume, since you know your class, that you do know that most of NB skills are usuable in block. So I don't see why you are implying that permablock means just taunt-and-block-and-nothing-else.
Unless you don't know your class, but I'm sure that's not the case

Septimus_Magna · December 2015

I was wondering if you can reach (or come close to) the 33k armor cap with 5 MA/ 2 HA with Immovable and Armor Master 5pc?

For my Bosmer stamina NB tank I was considering the following setup:

5x MA/2x HA > S&B/2H

5x Armor Master (heavy reinforced chest, 3x reinforced medium, reinforced shield)
1x Blood Spawn (heavy divines helmet)
3x Willows Path (2x divines medium, defending sword, sharpened maul)
3x Endurance jewelry (healthy) 2x reduce block cost and 1x stam regen enchant

Serpent mundus for stam regen and v15 tri-stat buff food.

Does anyone have experience with a similar setup for his tank?

hrothbern · December 2015

Interesting build

I would also be interested in practical experience of such a build.

Theocrafting:
Assuming you will always have the Shield Expert passive from CP constellation The Steed,
With Blood Spawn 1 piece,
Buffed with Armor Master bonus and Immovable,
you need 17% increase from CP star Spell Shield to get to approx 33.036 Spell Resistance. (needs about 60 CP)
Physical Resistance will be approx 28.236. And cannot be increased with a CP star, because the star Heavy Armor Focus is only valid with 5 pc HA.

With Lord Warden 1 piece, you get an additional 1935 Spell & Physical Resistance.
Then you only need 9% from Spell Shield, needing 20-25 CP's.
The difference of 35-40 CP's invested back in Block Expertise, will probably save you more Stamina, than you gain with Blood Spawn. But that depends on the situation.
AND you gain an additional 1935 Physical Resistance.

EDIT
Maxing Armor needs Lord Warden AND a Maelstrom hammer. Physical Resist about 32k. But then you lose your 3rd piece of Willows Path and Stamina Recovery.

Sevalaricgirl · December 2015

Yakidafi wrote: »

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

Usara wrote: »

Lol try tanking the IC dungeons in medium Armor Master. And take pictures ! We want to laugh too.

Completely off-topic, but @Usara you have the best sig! I love your characters names and backstories!

Have an awesome!

Sarcasm detected? Bcs sig is bigger then his post...

I don't detect sarcasm. There are people who appreciate the RP in RPG. I've always wanted to do a signature that is Riana The Bosmer "She doesn't eat meat"

jakeedmundson · December 2015

um.... nope

5h-1m-1l

Use armor master 5p, engine guardian 2p and footmans 5p or mix 3 endurance jewelry with a 2p bulwark

Don't use immovable (or any class resistance buff like hardened armor)... that would be stupid. You would be wasting the extra resist and could fill it in with something useful.

if you're using armor master, use the evasion skill from the medium armor line. (you could also use the light armor skill on your other bar too... depending on the fight)
You get the benefit of histbark (20% dodge chance) except now you don't even have to block to get it... so in those trash pulls with 10+ things hitting you.... 2-3 out of those 10-12 attacks will likely miss.... no damage... no block... no stamina drain.
Footman helps a lot with blocking the HEAVY attacks from bosses and hard hitting uppercut mobs... that's all you should be blocking unless you're very low on health.

Why would you think that's using this set wrong?

Septimus_Magna · December 2015

hrothbern wrote: »

Interesting build

I would also be interested in practical experience of such a build.

Theocrafting:
Assuming you will always have the Shield Expert passive from CP constellation The Steed,
With Blood Spawn 1 piece,
Buffed with Armor Master bonus and Immovable,
you need 17% increase from CP star Spell Shield to get to approx 33.036 Spell Resistance. (needs about 60 CP)
Physical Resistance will be approx 28.236. And cannot be increased with a CP star, because the star Heavy Armor Focus is only valid with 5 pc HA.

With Lord Warden 1 piece, you get an additional 1935 Spell & Physical Resistance.
Then you only need 9% from Spell Shield, needing 20-25 CP's.
The difference of 35-40 CP's invested back in Block Expertise, will probably save you more Stamina, than you gain with Blood Spawn. But that depends on the situation.
AND you gain an additional 1935 Physical Resistance.

EDIT
Maxing Armor needs Lord Warden AND a Maelstrom hammer. Physical Resist about 32k. But then you lose your 3rd piece of Willows Path and Stamina Recovery.

Thanks for the detailed reply!

Did you calculate this for v16 purple or gold armor?
And what traits did you use for the gear?

I think you can increase physical resistance of medium armor with the Medium Armor Focus in the Steed tree (Warrior constellation). This would reduce the amount of CP needed for spell resist because you can get the Shield Expert passive which increases shield spell resist by 75%, it would probably be smart to get a nirnhoned shield with this passive.

Without Maelstrom weapons, the choice is between:
3x Willows + 1x Bloodspawn (2x stam regen, 1x mag regen)
3x Willows + 1x Lord Warden (1x mag regen, 1x stam regen, 1x spell resist)

Im not really sure what would be the best for this build but changing Lord Warden for Bloodspawn would be simple ofc.

hrothbern · December 2015

.

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Interesting build

I would also be interested in practical experience of such a build.

Theocrafting:
Assuming you will always have the Shield Expert passive from CP constellation The Steed,
With Blood Spawn 1 piece,
Buffed with Armor Master bonus and Immovable,
you need 17% increase from CP star Spell Shield to get to approx 33.036 Spell Resistance. (needs about 60 CP)
Physical Resistance will be approx 28.236. And cannot be increased with a CP star, because the star Heavy Armor Focus is only valid with 5 pc HA.

With Lord Warden 1 piece, you get an additional 1935 Spell & Physical Resistance.
Then you only need 9% from Spell Shield, needing 20-25 CP's.
The difference of 35-40 CP's invested back in Block Expertise, will probably save you more Stamina, than you gain with Blood Spawn. But that depends on the situation.
AND you gain an additional 1935 Physical Resistance.

EDIT
Maxing Armor needs Lord Warden AND a Maelstrom hammer. Physical Resist about 32k. But then you lose your 3rd piece of Willows Path and Stamina Recovery.

Thanks for the detailed reply!

Did you calculate this for v16 purple or gold armor?
And what traits did you use for the gear?

I think you can increase physical resistance of medium armor with the Medium Armor Focus in the Steed tree (Warrior constellation). This would reduce the amount of CP needed for spell resist because you can get the Shield Expert passive which increases shield spell resist by 75%, it would probably be smart to get a nirnhoned shield with this passive.

Without Maelstrom weapons, the choice is between:
3x Willows + 1x Bloodspawn (2x stam regen, 1x mag regen)
3x Willows + 1x Lord Warden (1x mag regen, 1x stam regen, 1x spell resist)

Im not really sure what would be the best for this build but changing Lord Warden for Bloodspawn would be simple ofc.

I used Gold v16, Belt & Bracers Divine the rest Reinforced.
(I overlooked that your Bloodspawn Helmet was Divine, so my calculation was approx 400 Resistance too high and overlooked that your Sword was defensive, so there my calculation was 1280 too low)

Using Nirnhoned for your Shield will give you (including effect CP passive Shield Expert) approx 250 more Spell Resistance, but 500 less Physical Resistance.
I think that is only interesting if you do not want to max Physical Resist.
BTW. I calculate with a Lord Warden that gives both Spell as Physical Resist, according to the Patch 2.1.2. But I do not have it, to fact check.

Summarising:
With Armor Master buff, Immovable, S&B bar (Defensive), Bloodspawn (Divine Helmet), Bracers & Belt Divine, and the rest Reinforced incl Shield: 29,116 Armor Resistance. Needing 12% buff from Spell Shield (35 CP) and Medium Armor Focus (86 CP) to get to 33k.
With Lord Warden, rest the same: 31,051 Armor Resistance. Needing 7% buff from Spel Shield (16 CP) and Medium Armor Focus (33 CP) to get to 33k.

So a saving of 72 CP ! 72 CP put in Block Expertise saves 19.9% Block costs. So it depends on the combat situation and your playstyle whether the Block Stamina costs savings are higher than your Stamina Regeneration.

What also plays a role is whether you use Mirage with a high uptime. That gives a 990 Armor Resist buff.

For my own current HA NB Siphoning build, I have for heavy duty fights always Sturdy Horn and Mirage up. Good for 2k buff. (with Soul Harvest in my fighting bar to get the ultimate up fast enough. With enough mobs, PVE, my Sturdy Warhorn (duration 39 seconds) is up 100%)

kojou · December 2015

I've done my fair share of tanking in this game, and while I don't agree that using heavy armor with the Armor Master set is wrong, I do think that what the OP is suggesting is viable for most situations.

The places where I could see it struggle would be having to keep aggro on multiple targets, blocking, and spending stamina to keep casting evasion or immovable every 10 seconds to keep resistances up. I would be interested to know if there are any dungeon situations that run the build out of stamina.

I would also be interested to see what Physical and Spell resist numbers OP gets buffed and unbuffed, and I would also like to know what the healers he tanks for have to say about his durability...

And before I would commit resources (Rubedo and Dregh Wax) to creating a medium Amor Master set I would want to know what DPS numbers are possible with the build. Currently my tank does not die often and even has the vWGT "no death" achievement, but I would not change my armor type, and risk survivability for a small DPS increase when my healer can do 12k DPS while healing because he doesn't have to worry about me.

Currently my favorite setup on my DK is heavy Armor Master, Footman, and Engine Guardian and I use mostly magic skills and use Harness Magic to activate the Armor Master bonus. Lately I have been switching Footman out for Trinimac where the extra mitigation is not needed and have been having fun spamming Obsidian Shield for the heal and dps boost along with getting the extra magic and magic regen from the set.

Anyway thanks for posting your ideas it gives me something to think about for other tanking options.

Asherons_Call · December 2015

Yakidafi wrote: »

RizaHawkeye wrote: »

Usara wrote: »

Lol try tanking the IC dungeons in medium Armor Master. And take pictures ! We want to laugh too.

Completely off-topic, but @Usara you have the best sig! I love your characters names and backstories!

Have an awesome!

Sarcasm detected? Bcs sig is bigger then his post...

No it came across as genuine to me. That sig (although long, is kind of unique as it gives a one line backstory for the characters. We need more RP in RPG!

Septimus_Magna · December 2015

@hrothbern

Yesterday I made a screenshot of my Heavy Lord Warden shoulder piece.
The 1pc bonus only gives spell resist.

Mirage and Sturdy Horn both give the minor ward/resolve buff so they dont stack unfortunately.
With the WW ulti slotted on the main bar it will be hard to keep Sturdy Horn up so Veil of Blades could be more useful.
Veil of Blades and Ring of Preservation both give minor dmg reduction which is useful for a tank.
Casting RoP in between VoBs allows 100% up time of the minor dmg reduction buff.
Testing will prove if RoP is necessary, if not, RoP could be replaced with Caltrops for the aoe dmg + snare and chance to proc Siphon Attacks.

For skills I was considering the followings setup:

bar 1 - S&B
-Pierce Armor (taunt + major fracture/breach) 15s
-Resolving Vigor (self-hot) 5s
-Immovable Brute (major ward/resolve + CC immunity) 15s + Armor Master buff
-Siphon Attacks (resource return) 10s
-Defensive Posture (increased block + reduced block cost)
>WW ultimate (15% stam regen)

bar 2 - 2H
-Stampede (gap closer + snare)
-Rally (major weapon dmg buff + hot) 33s
-Mirage (major evasion + minor ward/resolve) 26s
-Shade (minor maim) 17s
-Caltrops (aoe snare + dmg) 30s / Ring of Preservation (minor dmg reduction + major health regen) 10s
>Veil of Blades (aoe dmg + minor dmg reduction / Sturdy Horn (10% tri-stat group buff + minor ward/resolve)

With 5x medium armor the stamina regen should be more than enough to keep Pierce Armor+Vigor+Immovable up at all times. This would allow the tank to rely on self-healing in most cases, mainly using block for the heavy/charged attacks. The cost to dodge and break-free will be pretty low with the medium armor passives so there are other ways to mitigate dmg compared to a 'traditional' heavy armor block tank.

The alliance rank of my NB is low so I havent unlocked Vigor and Caltrops yet.
Vigor plays a crucial role in this build so I will craft the gear after Ive unlocked it.
The gear will be purple at first, I might upgrade the heavy chest if the armor and spell resist are too low.

hrothbern · December 2015

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

@hrothbern

Yesterday I made a screenshot of my Heavy Lord Warden shoulder piece.
The 1pc bonus only gives spell resist.

Mirage and Sturdy Horn both give the minor ward/resolve buff so they dont stack unfortunately.
With the WW ulti slotted on the main bar it will be hard to keep Sturdy Horn up so Veil of Blades could be more useful.
Veil of Blades and Ring of Preservation both give minor dmg reduction which is useful for a tank.
Casting RoP in between VoBs allows 100% up time of the minor dmg reduction buff.
Testing will prove if RoP is necessary, if not, RoP could be replaced with Caltrops for the aoe dmg + snare and chance to proc Siphon Attacks.

For skills I was considering the followings setup:

bar 1 - S&B
-Pierce Armor (taunt + major fracture/breach) 15s
-Resolving Vigor (self-hot) 5s
-Immovable Brute (major ward/resolve + CC immunity) 15s + Armor Master buff
-Siphon Attacks (resource return) 10s
-Defensive Posture (increased block + reduced block cost)
>WW ultimate (15% stam regen)

bar 2 - 2H
-Stampede (gap closer + snare)
-Rally (major weapon dmg buff + hot) 33s
-Mirage (major evasion + minor ward/resolve) 26s
-Shade (minor maim) 17s
-Caltrops (aoe snare + dmg) 30s / Ring of Preservation (minor dmg reduction + major health regen) 10s
>Veil of Blades (aoe dmg + minor dmg reduction / Sturdy Horn (10% tri-stat group buff + minor ward/resolve)

With 5x medium armor the stamina regen should be more than enough to keep Pierce Armor+Vigor+Immovable up at all times. This would allow the tank to rely on self-healing in most cases, mainly using block for the heavy/charged attacks. The cost to dodge and break-free will be pretty low with the medium armor passives so there are other ways to mitigate dmg compared to a 'traditional' heavy armor block tank.

The alliance rank of my NB is low so I havent unlocked Vigor and Caltrops yet.
Vigor plays a crucial role in this build so I will craft the gear after Ive unlocked it.
The gear will be purple at first, I might upgrade the heavy chest if the armor and spell resist are too low.

@Septimus_Magna ,

On the minor Ward and the Lord Warden 1 piece bonus: thanks!
Will need to consider grinding for a defensive Maelstrom Mace for the Armor Resist and the savings in CP's in the warrior :-(
SA has a duration of 15 s

So... all in all, this looks like a viable tank with enough self heal to free up the Healer more (for more Healer DPS) and able to contribute more Damage than the classic HA tank.
Worth trying

good luck and fun with getting your AP up !

Still curious whether there is already a similar MA tank.

Oldmanlawlor · December 2015

My Templar is a tank. And I must say, it's completly and utterly boring as hell. Now don't get me wrong, I stand in the middle of the mobs saying "you can't kill me" but it's the same when I try to solo kill things, they get to say it.

Usually dungeons consist of me taunting a boss and shielding up, or, taunting a boss and running in a circle. Yes it's effective and the other three get to melt the boss.

But for the tank? Boring. There needs to be something in game to reward effective blocking. Perhaps, a successful block costs no stamina and grants massive hp recovery for three seconds.