Shield Breaker - But Wait, There's More!

Emma_Overload · October 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Alright seriously though, you can remove Shield Breaker from the game now ZoS, and this is coming from someone who doesn't even play a Sorcerer, the set is asinine on so many levels......

Do I get all my tv stones back? I spent a lot of time as a lvl 39 soloing IC for this set. Suffice it to say I'd be pretty annoyed if they removed or nerfed it without reimbursing me in some way.

Uh, I spent a lot more gold on the Desert Rose set than the Shield Breaker set is worth, and I'm still waiting for reimbursement from ZOS.

Yonkit · October 2015

FireCowCommando wrote: »

Ever since this Yonkit became part of Yonkit, Yonkit does not know which Yonkit to believe.

Part of Yonkit agrees, and part of Yonkit disagrees. Yonkit, help!

@FireCowCommando The Yonkit in me agrees with this post, so the Yonkit in you must agree too! Or you will tear the very fabric of Yonkit apart and cause chaos throughout the realm!

Xeven · October 2015

Xeven wrote: »

Lucky28 · October 2015

^ DK's with shieldbreaker are the problem. nightblades with it are a joke. they have better skills.

Cinnamon_Spider · October 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Alright seriously though, you can remove Shield Breaker from the game now ZoS, and this is coming from someone who doesn't even play a Sorcerer, the set is asinine on so many levels......

Do I get all my tv stones back? I spent a lot of time as a lvl 39 soloing IC for this set. Suffice it to say I'd be pretty annoyed if they removed or nerfed it without reimbursing me in some way.

And how about my Arch Mage that I spent hours upon hours farming AP to get that has now been nerfed into complete uselessness? And I know lots of people that spent more in gold for it.
If a set needs to be changed, then it needs to be changed regardless of how much we've spent to get it.

Yonkit · October 2015

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

Alright seriously though, you can remove Shield Breaker from the game now ZoS, and this is coming from someone who doesn't even play a Sorcerer, the set is asinine on so many levels......

Do I get all my tv stones back? I spent a lot of time as a lvl 39 soloing IC for this set. Suffice it to say I'd be pretty annoyed if they removed or nerfed it without reimbursing me in some way.

And how about my Arch Mage that I spent hours upon hours farming AP to get that has now been nerfed into complete uselessness? And I know lots of people that spent more in gold for it.
If a set needs to be changed, then it needs to be changed regardless of how much we've spent to get it.

Sounds like a L2P issue Cin, have you tried resetting your router and disabling all your addons?

kevlarto_ESO · October 2015

ESO live 10/15/15 Eric tells you the scoop on shield breaker, might want to go over to twitch and watch his interview, but in a nut shell the dev's are happy with metrics from shield breaker and it is not going anywhere. Eric even gives hints to sorcs on how to play against shield breaker.

Teargrants · October 2015

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

ESO live 10/15/15 Eric tells you the scoop on shield breaker, might want to go over to twitch and watch his interview, but in a nut shell the dev's are happy with metrics from shield breaker and it is not going anywhere. Eric even gives hints to sorcs on how to play against shield breaker.

His 'hint' was pretty much just "don't use shields, haha."

Yonkit · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

ESO live 10/15/15 Eric tells you the scoop on shield breaker, might want to go over to twitch and watch his interview, but in a nut shell the dev's are happy with metrics from shield breaker and it is not going anywhere. Eric even gives hints to sorcs on how to play against shield breaker.

His 'hint' was pretty much just "don't use shields, haha."

This. Anyone who takes Eric Wrobel's "hints" or "tips" seriously, is an idiot. I can't even.

Valindor Magnus · October 2015

Eso dev logic = design a class to rely on shields with a few supplemental heals then gives a set that bypasses shields and says to not use shields... Pretty sure if Eric wroble has never pvp'd on a sorc. Starting to feel like he has never played the game...

Teargrants · October 2015

Valindor Magnus wrote: »

Eso dev logic = design a class to rely on shields with a few supplemental heals then gives a set that bypasses shields and says to not use shields... Pretty sure if Eric wroble has never pvp'd on a sorc. Starting to feel like he has never played the game...

He played a stam sorc on one of the dev livestreams in IC. He was spamming WB w/o animation cancelling heavy atks at all.

Alucardo · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

He played a stam sorc on one of the dev livestreams in IC. He was spamming WB w/o animation cancelling heavy atks at all.

The main idea behind them types of live streams is to show you the content, so like, who gives a crap what play style he uses? Are you just picking on him to better your argument against Shield breaker? If so, that's pretty weak.

I expected better from you

Lol no I didn't

rokrdt05 · October 2015

Aren't the Dev's the same people who said that pets were the best DPS for a sorc?

Seriously... they do not play there own game.

Alucardo · October 2015

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Aren't the Dev's the same people who said that pets were the best DPS for a sorc?

I don't remember that one, but if you remember the ESO live episode I'd love to see it. Could use a laugh

rokrdt05 · October 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Aren't the Dev's the same people who said that pets were the best DPS for a sorc?

I don't remember that one, but if you remember the ESO live episode I'd love to see it. Could use a laugh

I don't remember the episode, but they were testing it in Sanctum Ophidia when it was still rather new. It was hilarious to say the least.

Sorc pets best DPS... gtfo...

Alucardo · October 2015

rokrdt05 wrote: »

I don't remember the episode, but they were testing it in Sanctum Ophidia when it was still rather new. It was hilarious to say the least.

Sorc pets best DPS... gtfo...

I see them pop up in PVP a lot more recently. I'm not sure why - silver leash literally one hits them every time. They make great distractions though!

bowmanz607 · October 2015

Yonkit wrote: »

Okay so we got Shield Breaker, now we need a Stealth-Breaker, Reflect-Breaker, and a Heal-Breaker... I'm thinking like...

Stealth Breaker - Deals 2,000 Unresistable damage to all targets in a 20m radius of you that are stealthed or cloaked.

Reflect Breaker - Deals 2,000 Unresistable damage to anyone that uses Reflective Scales or Defensive Posture.

Heal Breaker - Deals 2,000 Unresistable damage to anyone that heals in a 20m radius of you.

Sounds fair right? I tried not to make them too OP but we gotta balance it you know?

Alright seriously though, you can remove Shield Breaker from the game now ZoS, and this is coming from someone who doesn't even play a Sorcerer, the set is asinine on so many levels......

Inb4 "But you give up a 5 set bonus!"

And gain weapon damage recovery and max stamina... Omg such a trade off!

you know the difference between shields and everything else you listed....shields have no counter and everything else does.
how is it insacne really?

a player who spams it dies to a half-way decent player that knows what they are doing.
the proper way to use the set is as an execute. so rather than people being almost dead and throwing on a shield that equates to another health bar while you heal and regen, the player actually dies.

and yes you have to give up a 5 peice bonus for a set that works against limited players rather than say...sheer venom which is much better. ya sure you get those 2,3,4 bonuses, but i can find other sets that give those bonuses too.

get over yourself.

Teargrants · October 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

He played a stam sorc on one of the dev livestreams in IC. He was spamming WB w/o animation cancelling heavy atks at all.

The main idea behind them types of live streams is to show you the content, so like, who gives a crap what play style he uses? Are you just picking on him to better your argument against Shield breaker? If so, that's pretty weak.

I expected better from you
Lol no I didn't

Um no? It doesn't matter what the "main idea" behind the livestream was, what is objectively important was what it presented on screen, which was devs playing the game like casuals who don't understand all the mechanics. It has nothing to do with Shield Breaker, Eric isn't directly in charge of that, that's on the itemization team. My beef with Eric extends to him demonstrating an overall poor knowledge of how combat actually plays in this game. You know, the game that he is lead combat designer of. Statements such as the infamous "people melt in Wall of Elements".

There's a whole host of combat changes Eric is responsible for which I disagree with; things like no stam regen on block, dodge roll & bolt escape cost stacking, battle spirit changes, talons stealth nerf, ect. These issues could all have been better solved by adding the soft caps back, but of course they will never do that because it would conflict with the CP system.

But that's ok, I hope you enjoyed your half baked insult of me while completely missing the point of my post.

Alucardo · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

But that's ok, I hope you enjoyed your half baked insult of me while completely missing the point of my post.

Yes I did, thank you

Amica · October 2015

Just change the damage of the shield breaker set.. by half the amount. Still viable but not as OP, especially when you have light and heavy attacks macro-ed on a Naga or R.A.T 9 mouse. But NOOOO zos would not take that into consideration. I understand that one of the bosses they are working on for future content relies on this set but for the love of god it needs halving imo.

Yes i did roll a sorc at last and im a little bias in my opinion. But even when im on my nb i think its sickening how op the set is.

bowmanz607 · October 2015

Amica wrote: »

Just change the damage of the shield breaker set.. by half the amount. Still viable but not as OP, especially when you have light and heavy attacks macro-ed on a Naga or R.A.T 9 mouse. But NOOOO zos would not take that into consideration. I understand that one of the bosses they are working on for future content relies on this set but for the love of god it needs halving imo.

Yes i did roll a sorc at last and im a little bias in my opinion. But even when im on my nb i think its sickening how op the set is.

It started on half the damage it is now on the pts and the set was useless.also, you should never take into account something like macros when designing the game. They are not allowed and should not be considered in how the game operates. Please tell me how this set is op. Here are the two secnarios.

0layer using shield breaker spams light attacks. Player spamming dies to any competent player because light attacks doing 2k damage will not kill you. If it does then you are a horrible player and deserve to die.

Scenario 2,
Player uses the set situationall. Basically uses it as an execute. So now instead of a player using shields until healing ward pop and gets you back to full health, the player dies to shield breaker just like a player would die to any execute. This is the only counter to op shields.

ToRelax · October 2015

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Amica wrote: »

Just change the damage of the shield breaker set.. by half the amount. Still viable but not as OP, especially when you have light and heavy attacks macro-ed on a Naga or R.A.T 9 mouse. But NOOOO zos would not take that into consideration. I understand that one of the bosses they are working on for future content relies on this set but for the love of god it needs halving imo.

Yes i did roll a sorc at last and im a little bias in my opinion. But even when im on my nb i think its sickening how op the set is.

It started on half the damage it is now on the pts and the set was useless.also, you should never take into account something like macros when designing the game. They are not allowed and should not be considered in how the game operates. Please tell me how this set is op. Here are the two secnarios.

0layer using shield breaker spams light attacks. Player spamming dies to any competent player because light attacks doing 2k damage will not kill you. If it does then you are a horrible player and deserve to die.

Scenario 2,
Player uses the set situationall. Basically uses it as an execute. So now instead of a player using shields until healing ward pop and gets you back to full health, the player dies to shield breaker just like a player would die to any execute. This is the only counter to op shields.

Shields already take execute damage when you're in execute range. A burst heal would pull you right out.
I am all for removing shield stacking, in that Harness would be removed by something else and Healing Ward changed into a weaker instant burst heal. Maybe that would stop some of the QQ about shieldstacking from players who see their enemies complete health bar in blue, but it definitely wouldn't make me any weaker...

Sharee · October 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Amica wrote: »

Just change the damage of the shield breaker set.. by half the amount. Still viable but not as OP, especially when you have light and heavy attacks macro-ed on a Naga or R.A.T 9 mouse. But NOOOO zos would not take that into consideration. I understand that one of the bosses they are working on for future content relies on this set but for the love of god it needs halving imo.

Yes i did roll a sorc at last and im a little bias in my opinion. But even when im on my nb i think its sickening how op the set is.

It started on half the damage it is now on the pts and the set was useless.also, you should never take into account something like macros when designing the game. They are not allowed and should not be considered in how the game operates. Please tell me how this set is op. Here are the two secnarios.

0layer using shield breaker spams light attacks. Player spamming dies to any competent player because light attacks doing 2k damage will not kill you. If it does then you are a horrible player and deserve to die.

Scenario 2,
Player uses the set situationall. Basically uses it as an execute. So now instead of a player using shields until healing ward pop and gets you back to full health, the player dies to shield breaker just like a player would die to any execute. This is the only counter to op shields.

Shields already take execute damage when you're in execute range.

The damage a shielded player in execute range takes is increased, but so is the shield value of healing ward, by the same ratio. So they cancel each other out, effectively making a healing ward user un-executable.

On top of that, any execute hitting healing ward is guaranteed not to crit.

Teargrants · October 2015

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Amica wrote: »

Just change the damage of the shield breaker set.. by half the amount. Still viable but not as OP, especially when you have light and heavy attacks macro-ed on a Naga or R.A.T 9 mouse. But NOOOO zos would not take that into consideration. I understand that one of the bosses they are working on for future content relies on this set but for the love of god it needs halving imo.

Yes i did roll a sorc at last and im a little bias in my opinion. But even when im on my nb i think its sickening how op the set is.

It started on half the damage it is now on the pts and the set was useless.also, you should never take into account something like macros when designing the game. They are not allowed and should not be considered in how the game operates. Please tell me how this set is op. Here are the two secnarios.

0layer using shield breaker spams light attacks. Player spamming dies to any competent player because light attacks doing 2k damage will not kill you. If it does then you are a horrible player and deserve to die.

Scenario 2,
Player uses the set situationall. Basically uses it as an execute. So now instead of a player using shields until healing ward pop and gets you back to full health, the player dies to shield breaker just like a player would die to any execute. This is the only counter to op shields.

Shields already take execute damage when you're in execute range.

The damage a shielded player in execute range takes is increased, but so is the shield value of healing ward, by the same ratio. So they cancel each other out, effectively making a healing ward user un-executable.

On top of that, any execute hitting healing ward is guaranteed not to crit.

They will keep executing you, and if they break through your healing ward in 6 seconds, you will have to recast it - meaning you will not get the big burst heal, and most likely remain in execute range. The only way out is combining healing ward with other shields/heals/dmg mitigation over those 6 seconds to keep healing ward from being depleted.

CP5 · October 2015

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

rokrdt05 wrote: »

Aren't the Dev's the same people who said that pets were the best DPS for a sorc?

I don't remember that one, but if you remember the ESO live episode I'd love to see it. Could use a laugh

I don't remember the episode, but they were testing it in Sanctum Ophidia when it was still rather new. It was hilarious to say the least.

Sorc pets best DPS... gtfo...

I don't remember the episode number but it was the same one where he talked about the new skills the other classes got. He was so excited when he talked about the nb's spectral bow, or when saying it was the templars 'time to shine' but when he finally came to sorcs (as kind of an afterthought) he said "We buffed pets so much on our internal servers that they were overpowered." Hence the nerf pets got between their internal testing and pts... Would love to see an 'op' pet.

CP5 · October 2015

Found it:

https://youtu.be/C9yqeetasSQ?t=1h34m30s[/youtube]
Starts at 1h 34m 30s, in case the video starts a few minutes later for whatever reason.

He also mentioned how classes on average have 3 stamina morphs, but i'm wondering what he felt sorcs had. After all of these changes since we have Bound Armaments (love those toggles) and Thundering Presence (which I doubt stamina sorcs will use).

https://youtu.be/2lhbH7PdEU0?t=37m5s[/youtube]
37m 5s, in case this one is bugged as well.

And this one where he got very excited to talk about the nerf to negate, but then talked about how buffing the duration of liquid lightning would help sorcerer sustained dps.

Sharee · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Amica wrote: »

Just change the damage of the shield breaker set.. by half the amount. Still viable but not as OP, especially when you have light and heavy attacks macro-ed on a Naga or R.A.T 9 mouse. But NOOOO zos would not take that into consideration. I understand that one of the bosses they are working on for future content relies on this set but for the love of god it needs halving imo.

Yes i did roll a sorc at last and im a little bias in my opinion. But even when im on my nb i think its sickening how op the set is.

It started on half the damage it is now on the pts and the set was useless.also, you should never take into account something like macros when designing the game. They are not allowed and should not be considered in how the game operates. Please tell me how this set is op. Here are the two secnarios.

0layer using shield breaker spams light attacks. Player spamming dies to any competent player because light attacks doing 2k damage will not kill you. If it does then you are a horrible player and deserve to die.

Scenario 2,
Player uses the set situationall. Basically uses it as an execute. So now instead of a player using shields until healing ward pop and gets you back to full health, the player dies to shield breaker just like a player would die to any execute. This is the only counter to op shields.

Shields already take execute damage when you're in execute range.

The damage a shielded player in execute range takes is increased, but so is the shield value of healing ward, by the same ratio. So they cancel each other out, effectively making a healing ward user un-executable.

On top of that, any execute hitting healing ward is guaranteed not to crit.

They will keep executing you, and if they break through your healing ward in 6 seconds, you will have to recast it - meaning you will not get the big burst heal, and most likely remain in execute range. The only way out is combining healing ward with other shields/heals/dmg mitigation over those 6 seconds to keep healing ward from being depleted.

That doesn't change the fact you are unexecutable as long as you keep healing ward up. Any extra damage you would take thanks to being in execute range will be absorbed by extra shielding you also get thanks to being in execute range.

As long as you take care to never let the shield drop completely, you can just continue fighting as if you weren't low on HP and in execute range, effectively ignoring the execute mechanic, until you get healed in some way, either through some other heal source or by breaking contact with enemy for 6 seconds.

rfennell_ESO · October 2015

They need to make a "macro breaker" set.

It does 2000 unresistable damage to the player behind the macroing character (which is an instant kill I suspect).

Teargrants · October 2015

Sharee wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Amica wrote: »

Just change the damage of the shield breaker set.. by half the amount. Still viable but not as OP, especially when you have light and heavy attacks macro-ed on a Naga or R.A.T 9 mouse. But NOOOO zos would not take that into consideration. I understand that one of the bosses they are working on for future content relies on this set but for the love of god it needs halving imo.

Yes i did roll a sorc at last and im a little bias in my opinion. But even when im on my nb i think its sickening how op the set is.

It started on half the damage it is now on the pts and the set was useless.also, you should never take into account something like macros when designing the game. They are not allowed and should not be considered in how the game operates. Please tell me how this set is op. Here are the two secnarios.

0layer using shield breaker spams light attacks. Player spamming dies to any competent player because light attacks doing 2k damage will not kill you. If it does then you are a horrible player and deserve to die.

Scenario 2,
Player uses the set situationall. Basically uses it as an execute. So now instead of a player using shields until healing ward pop and gets you back to full health, the player dies to shield breaker just like a player would die to any execute. This is the only counter to op shields.

Shields already take execute damage when you're in execute range.

The damage a shielded player in execute range takes is increased, but so is the shield value of healing ward, by the same ratio. So they cancel each other out, effectively making a healing ward user un-executable.

On top of that, any execute hitting healing ward is guaranteed not to crit.

They will keep executing you, and if they break through your healing ward in 6 seconds, you will have to recast it - meaning you will not get the big burst heal, and most likely remain in execute range. The only way out is combining healing ward with other shields/heals/dmg mitigation over those 6 seconds to keep healing ward from being depleted.

That doesn't change the fact you are unexecutable as long as you keep healing ward up. Any extra damage you would take thanks to being in execute range will be absorbed by extra shielding you also get thanks to being in execute range.

As long as you take care to never let the shield drop completely, you can just continue fighting as if you weren't low on HP and in execute range, effectively ignoring the execute mechanic, until you get healed in some way, either through some other heal source or by breaking contact with enemy for 6 seconds.

Uhm no you can't. It will take about 2 executes max for them to break your healing ward, that gives you at most 1 out of every 2 GCD to cast another shield (which you will have to do if you don't want to be killed as soon as you get CC'd w/ Healing Ward depleted) or dps. Have you ever tried healing up from execute range, while a good 2 hand user is on you, w/ a build that relies on Healing Ward? It's not an easy thing to do w/o LOS, and definitely not "fighting as if you weren't low on HP".

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

They need to make a "macro breaker" set.

It does 2000 unresistable damage to the player behind the macroing character (which is an instant kill I suspect).

Huehue? Are you the same kind of person who sends the "f***ing macroer no skill l2p" tells to bowblades when they burst you down?

Yonkit · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Amica wrote: »

Just change the damage of the shield breaker set.. by half the amount. Still viable but not as OP, especially when you have light and heavy attacks macro-ed on a Naga or R.A.T 9 mouse. But NOOOO zos would not take that into consideration. I understand that one of the bosses they are working on for future content relies on this set but for the love of god it needs halving imo.

Yes i did roll a sorc at last and im a little bias in my opinion. But even when im on my nb i think its sickening how op the set is.

It started on half the damage it is now on the pts and the set was useless.also, you should never take into account something like macros when designing the game. They are not allowed and should not be considered in how the game operates. Please tell me how this set is op. Here are the two secnarios.

0layer using shield breaker spams light attacks. Player spamming dies to any competent player because light attacks doing 2k damage will not kill you. If it does then you are a horrible player and deserve to die.

Scenario 2,
Player uses the set situationall. Basically uses it as an execute. So now instead of a player using shields until healing ward pop and gets you back to full health, the player dies to shield breaker just like a player would die to any execute. This is the only counter to op shields.

Shields already take execute damage when you're in execute range.

The damage a shielded player in execute range takes is increased, but so is the shield value of healing ward, by the same ratio. So they cancel each other out, effectively making a healing ward user un-executable.

On top of that, any execute hitting healing ward is guaranteed not to crit.

They will keep executing you, and if they break through your healing ward in 6 seconds, you will have to recast it - meaning you will not get the big burst heal, and most likely remain in execute range. The only way out is combining healing ward with other shields/heals/dmg mitigation over those 6 seconds to keep healing ward from being depleted.

That doesn't change the fact you are unexecutable as long as you keep healing ward up. Any extra damage you would take thanks to being in execute range will be absorbed by extra shielding you also get thanks to being in execute range.

As long as you take care to never let the shield drop completely, you can just continue fighting as if you weren't low on HP and in execute range, effectively ignoring the execute mechanic, until you get healed in some way, either through some other heal source or by breaking contact with enemy for 6 seconds.

Uhm no you can't. It will take about 2 executes max for them to break your healing ward, that gives you at most 1 out of every 2 GCD to cast another shield (which you will have to do if you don't want to be killed as soon as you get CC'd w/ Healing Ward depleted) or dps. Have you ever tried healing up from execute range, while a good 2 hand user is on you, w/ a build that relies on Healing Ward? It's not an easy thing to do w/o LOS, and definitely not "fighting as if you weren't low on HP".

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

They need to make a "macro breaker" set.

It does 2000 unresistable damage to the player behind the macroing character (which is an instant kill I suspect).

Huehue? Are you the same kind of person who sends the "f***ing macroer no skill l2p" tells to bowblades when they burst you down?

I love when people complain about macros...

Macro: a single instruction that expands automatically into a set of instructions to perform a particular task.

So, now that we have that out of the way, yes, there are macro users in ESO, as there are in every game, hell, certain brands of Mouses allow you to setup macros with the mouse, so. Macros actually make you 'slower' in games like ESO because they're sending commands over and over, ping-rate and lag will effect the speed of a Macro.

Lets say a macro user, Snipes, Heavy Attacks, Poison Injections, Swaps bars, ambushes.

If I did it, without a Macro, i'd be faster every single time, of course that's because I have very fast fingers, it varies from person to person, but Macros generally make you slower and perform worse. They don't bypass the global cooldowns or make you super 1337 like some people believe. They're just for older fellows with slow fingers or really lazy folk.