Shield Breaker needs to go

k2blader · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Just paraphrasing what Eric Wrobel said on ESO Live about 2 minutes ago:

So there's been a lot of talk about Shield Breaker on the forums. I think it's a very polarizing issue. I think Shield Breaker is a lot of fun for people using it, maybe less fun for people being killed by it. [...] I think it helps because now you can't just put 3 shields on your bar and have all those shields. [...] We may look at adding ability based counters to shields as well in the future.

Wow. Just wow. Not even a single acknowledgement of the Evil Hunter procing through shields w/ Shield Breaker bug, or the fact that Shield Breaker does not follow Battle Spirit damage reduction, or the fact that Shield Breaker procs on Harness Magicka w/ physical attacks.

Gross.

However, if they just hate shields so much, why did they design them that way in the first place? Why did they design some classes to need shields for defense? Are they going to fix that by giving certain classes reliable defensiveness in place of shields?

Teargrants · October 2015

k2blader wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Just paraphrasing what Eric Wrobel said on ESO Live about 2 minutes ago:

So there's been a lot of talk about Shield Breaker on the forums. I think it's a very polarizing issue. I think Shield Breaker is a lot of fun for people using it, maybe less fun for people being killed by it. [...] I think it helps because now you can't just put 3 shields on your bar and have all those shields. [...] We may look at adding ability based counters to shields as well in the future.

Wow. Just wow. Not even a single acknowledgement of the Evil Hunter procing through shields w/ Shield Breaker bug, or the fact that Shield Breaker does not follow Battle Spirit damage reduction, or the fact that Shield Breaker procs on Harness Magicka w/ physical attacks.

Gross.

However, if they just hate shields so much, why did they design them that way in the first place? Why did they design some classes to need shields for defense? Are they going to fix that by giving certain classes reliable defensiveness in place of shields?

We already have Clanfear heal, totally legit, I dunno what you're talking about.

#petsorconlysorc
#verybestlikenooneeverwas

k2blader · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Just paraphrasing what Eric Wrobel said on ESO Live about 2 minutes ago:

So there's been a lot of talk about Shield Breaker on the forums. I think it's a very polarizing issue. I think Shield Breaker is a lot of fun for people using it, maybe less fun for people being killed by it. [...] I think it helps because now you can't just put 3 shields on your bar and have all those shields. [...] We may look at adding ability based counters to shields as well in the future.

Wow. Just wow. Not even a single acknowledgement of the Evil Hunter procing through shields w/ Shield Breaker bug, or the fact that Shield Breaker does not follow Battle Spirit damage reduction, or the fact that Shield Breaker procs on Harness Magicka w/ physical attacks.

Gross.

However, if they just hate shields so much, why did they design them that way in the first place? Why did they design some classes to need shields for defense? Are they going to fix that by giving certain classes reliable defensiveness in place of shields?

We already have Clanfear heal, totally legit, I dunno what you're talking about.

#petsorconlysorc
#verybestlikenooneeverwas

True dat. Think I'll also go full heavy and all attributes in to health. Why didn't I think of this before?!

LegendaryChef · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Just paraphrasing what Eric Wrobel said on ESO Live about 2 minutes ago:

So there's been a lot of talk about Shield Breaker on the forums. I think it's a very polarizing issue. I think Shield Breaker is a lot of fun for people using it, maybe less fun for people being killed by it. [...] I think it helps because now you can't just put 3 shields on your bar and have all those shields. [...] We may look at adding ability based counters to shields as well in the future.

Wow. Just wow. Not even a single acknowledgement of the Evil Hunter procing through shields w/ Shield Breaker bug, or the fact that Shield Breaker does not follow Battle Spirit damage reduction, or the fact that Shield Breaker procs on Harness Magicka w/ physical attacks.

Sooooo I think we have our answer?

All the devs are defininetly stamina sorcs.

Erudition · October 2015

Acts wrote: »

Shield Breaker is downright a Lazy balance fix to a game were Balance is so needed and wanted.

This set is outright OP, People say you lose so much when using this set, look at the 2-4 Piece bonuses, This set is nearly a Godsend for all Stam builds.
I have fought against really good People who use this set and lost. I have ran Mutegen and Blessing of Protection, Only using Hardened ward and always lose. Sorcs cannot Out heal or mitigate the damage.

The 2.5 Damage that it does, Is to much. look at all the Sorcs, They always have anywhere from 16 - 20k Health. This is the meta, Been like this even before 1.6. 2.5k Damage is way to much.

I know the QQ'ers will say, ' Well Put more into health " That will not solve anything. Just another 1 or 2 hits from Shield breaker will negate the health.

I know even more QQ'ers will say "'''' Put pressure on said Shield Breaking Guy " Against a Person who knows how to play this game. A Real PVP'er not some Scrub PVE'er. That is not nearly Possible.

Stam builds Heals are nearly better then my DPS and I am currently Running 2942 Spell damage.
That is not even adding in the Fact that Stam builds have the ability to Roll Dodge, and Break free alot more then any Mag build can.

This set needs to be changed. The fact that you Do not lose anything but gain everything from this set is just downright Wrong.

My 2 Cents,
Acts.

As usual spot on Act

Sharee · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

or the fact that Shield Breaker does not follow Battle Spirit damage reduction

Reduction down from what? It's PvE damage levels? There is no PvE damage for shieldbreaker. It only procs on players.

Wrecking blow etc. needs to be reduced by battle spirit, because it's damage needs to be high in PvE(the encounters are balanced around it), but that damage would be too high for PvP.

There is no such need in case of shieldbreaker. It's damage can be set directly to the desired PvP level, as it does nothing in PvE anyway, so there is no need to first set the damage high for PvE, then reduce it for PvP.

Alucardo · October 2015

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Why would I? To convince you what I say is true? I think you are seriously overestimating your importance. Whether you believe me or not is not really an issue here.

I noticed, because I was seriously confused why it procs so often when I just dropped vamp cuz of the annoyance of camo.

Which is why I pointed out, that dropping vamp is not a satisfying solution to not get hit by camo anymore. Or camo and sb combo...

Anything else you want to add?

Well you're attempting to prove someone wrong on the rarity of something, and they are supposed to just take your word for it?
I believe the camo hunter and SB bug, but a 4% chance to be on the receiving end of camo hunter and you say it happens often.. well, yeah, I would like to see that. Not outright calling you a liar here, I'd just be interested to see how often 4% procs. I run with camo hunter 24/7 and it rarely works on non-vamps/WW's.

Alucardo · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Not even, it takes about 10 min to buy a set of shield breaker from guild stores. Another 10 min for load screens if you want to scope out the best prices. Boom, done, zero effort. Not many players are gona do that? That statement is so wrong you are either woefully ignorant or deliberately downplaying it.

Actually it took me around 5.5 hours to get. I don't group and join sewer zergs, so collecting TV stones is a lot trickier. It was also harder considering the guy I did it with was level 39, but anyway.
Ultimately I did not want to buy Shield Breaker - as stated, it's a one trick pony and not overly useful long term. I was kind of looking for something similar to Hundings, but that I could buy with TV stones until I had my 6 traits researched. Unfortunately the other sets looked pretty crappy for what I was going for, so I chose SB in the meantime.

Teargrants wrote: »

You are aware that he is the same person who said people melt in Wall of Elements?

On a lighter side to this thread, this made me laugh. Thanks Eric.

contact.opiumb16_ESO · October 2015

I repost this again, because it seems that people flaming each other about shield stacking issue/shield breaker (in reality it's a shield bypasser) don't take time to read solutions to balance those 2 issues. If sorcerers want to insist more in defending shield stacking instead of a rework of how shields work, the will have in response the ZOS logic, aka "more shield bypassers". This response is a lazy one, but i honnestly think my solution should be the most balanced way to go. Please leave a comment on the post to let him go back to the top of the forum list

Link here : http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/fr/discussion/215648/a-smart-and-fair-solution-for-shield-stacking-and-shield-breaker-set-changes/p1

Mojomonkeyman · October 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Why would I? To convince you what I say is true? I think you are seriously overestimating your importance. Whether you believe me or not is not really an issue here.

I noticed, because I was seriously confused why it procs so often when I just dropped vamp cuz of the annoyance of camo.

Which is why I pointed out, that dropping vamp is not a satisfying solution to not get hit by camo anymore. Or camo and sb combo...

Anything else you want to add?

Well you're attempting to prove someone wrong on the rarity of something, and they are supposed to just take your word for it?
I believe the camo hunter and SB bug, but a 4% chance to be on the receiving end of camo hunter and you say it happens often.. well, yeah, I would like to see that. Not outright calling you a liar here, I'd just be interested to see how often 4% procs. I run with camo hunter 24/7 and it rarely works on non-vamps/WW's.

I pity you for not growing up in an environment were people trust the experience and expertise of others. I`m used to have dicussions with grown ups where people are usually able to state their opinions and experiences objectively and discuss with each other based on that.

If you didnt make the same experience as me, thats totally fine. We can disagree.

But why in hell would I not trust that you honestly believe in what you state? Sorry, but that`s not the environment I like to have conversations in.

Derra · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Just paraphrasing what Eric Wrobel said on ESO Live about 2 minutes ago:

So there's been a lot of talk about Shield Breaker on the forums. I think it's a very polarizing issue. I think Shield Breaker is a lot of fun for people using it, maybe less fun for people being killed by it. [...] I think it helps because now you can't just put 3 shields on your bar and have all those shields. [...] We may look at adding ability based counters to shields as well in the future.

Wow. Just wow. Not even a single acknowledgement of the Evil Hunter procing through shields w/ Shield Breaker bug, or the fact that Shield Breaker does not follow Battle Spirit damage reduction, or the fact that Shield Breaker procs on Harness Magicka w/ physical attacks.

If they don´t make the ability counter to shields magica based i´m seriously gonna break something.

All in all it´s a pretty *** poor response by a guy who has no idea about how the game actually works. I don´t see shieldbreaker as a large problem anymore but what i see as a problem is that a sorc has no alternative to using shields as their defense. The class is limited to the use of hardened ward as their defense skill. It´s not like there is a choice to use something else...
Shieldbreaker further forces you to use resto staff because the class defense is a shield and therefor you don´t get a vaible heal all that with the burstheal of the restostaff skillline being - a shield. Ironic.

Also him mentioning that you can put up three shields and have those shields... That´s still the case. You never had three shields against stam builds (except if you were also using barrier). Magica users fight against three shields and they still have to do that - because that genious made shieldbreaker a stam thing...
But yeah. He think´s wall of elements is a vaible skill.

All i can think of is lastos comment regarding that guy. It stands 100% true to this very day. I don´t get how he´s keeping his job.

ToRelax · October 2015

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

I repost this again, because it seems that people flaming each other about shield stacking issue/shield breaker (in reality it's a shield bypasser) don't take time to read solutions to balance those 2 issues. If sorcerers want to insist more in defending shield stacking instead of a rework of how shields work, the will have in response the ZOS logic, aka "more shield bypassers". This response is a lazy one, but i honnestly think my solution should be the most balanced way to go. Please leave a comment on the post to let him go back to the top of the forum list

Link here : http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/fr/discussion/215648/a-smart-and-fair-solution-for-shield-stacking-and-shield-breaker-set-changes/p1

Buff system is so lame, just takes away form fine tuning your stats / theorycrafting, wich is what I enjoy.
So, I'd rather go with shieldbreaker than not be able to configure my build myself.

Etaniel · October 2015

Derra wrote: »

Magica users fight against three shields and they still have to do that - because that genious made shieldbreaker a stam thing...
But yeah. He think´s wall of elements is a vaible skill.

All i can think of is lastos comment regarding that guy. It stands 100% true to this very day. I don´t get how he´s keeping his job.

Incompetence at it's finest.
It's mind boggling that the lead combat designer has no clue how combat actually works in his game. But then again no one else in ZOS know about it either, so no wonder he's keeping his job.

contact.opiumb16_ESO · October 2015

Derra wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Just paraphrasing what Eric Wrobel said on ESO Live about 2 minutes ago:

So there's been a lot of talk about Shield Breaker on the forums. I think it's a very polarizing issue. I think Shield Breaker is a lot of fun for people using it, maybe less fun for people being killed by it. [...] I think it helps because now you can't just put 3 shields on your bar and have all those shields. [...] We may look at adding ability based counters to shields as well in the future.

Wow. Just wow. Not even a single acknowledgement of the Evil Hunter procing through shields w/ Shield Breaker bug, or the fact that Shield Breaker does not follow Battle Spirit damage reduction, or the fact that Shield Breaker procs on Harness Magicka w/ physical attacks.

If they don´t make the ability counter to shields magica based i´m seriously gonna break something.

All in all it´s a pretty *** poor response by a guy who has no idea about how the game actually works. I don´t see shieldbreaker as a large problem anymore but what i see as a problem is that a sorc has no alternative to using shields as their defense. The class is limited to the use of hardened ward as their defense skill. It´s not like there is a choice to use something else...

Also him mentioning that you can put up three shields and have those shields... That´s still the case. You never had three shields against stam builds (except if you were also using barrier). Magica users fight against three shields and they still have to do that - because that genious made shieldbreaker a stam thing...
But yeah. He think´s wall of elements is a vaible skill.

All i can think of is lastos comment regarding that guy. It stands 100% true to this very day.

Sorcerers who claim "we don't have other choices than shield stacking" do not know their class well enough or are liar in order to keep this broken mecanic, and i know what i say, i played a sorcerer since beta. Thundering form + bound armor gives you the best armor buff stacking class base (minor + major resolve + major ward). Put this on top of a single conjured ward and you actually have a real strong defense WITHOUT using any shield stack. Sure shield stacking is stronger, but it is a broken mecanic compared to what other classes can have.

Not to mention that people usually claim "sorcerers have no heals" with is not true. Sorcerers and NB have heals based on damages done : surge and strife.

Derra · October 2015

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Just paraphrasing what Eric Wrobel said on ESO Live about 2 minutes ago:

So there's been a lot of talk about Shield Breaker on the forums. I think it's a very polarizing issue. I think Shield Breaker is a lot of fun for people using it, maybe less fun for people being killed by it. [...] I think it helps because now you can't just put 3 shields on your bar and have all those shields. [...] We may look at adding ability based counters to shields as well in the future.

Wow. Just wow. Not even a single acknowledgement of the Evil Hunter procing through shields w/ Shield Breaker bug, or the fact that Shield Breaker does not follow Battle Spirit damage reduction, or the fact that Shield Breaker procs on Harness Magicka w/ physical attacks.

If they don´t make the ability counter to shields magica based i´m seriously gonna break something.

All in all it´s a pretty *** poor response by a guy who has no idea about how the game actually works. I don´t see shieldbreaker as a large problem anymore but what i see as a problem is that a sorc has no alternative to using shields as their defense. The class is limited to the use of hardened ward as their defense skill. It´s not like there is a choice to use something else...

Also him mentioning that you can put up three shields and have those shields... That´s still the case. You never had three shields against stam builds (except if you were also using barrier). Magica users fight against three shields and they still have to do that - because that genious made shieldbreaker a stam thing...
But yeah. He think´s wall of elements is a vaible skill.

All i can think of is lastos comment regarding that guy. It stands 100% true to this very day.

Sorcerers who claim "we don't have other choices than shield stacking" do not know their class well enough or are liar in order to keep this broken mecanic, and i know what i say, i played a sorcerer since beta. Thundering form + bound armor gives you the best armor buff stacking class base (minor + major resolve + major ward). Put this on top of a single conjured ward and you actually have a real strong defense WITHOUT using any shield stack. Sure shield stacking is stronger, but it is a broken mecanic compared to what other classes can have.

Not to mention that people usually claim "sorcerers have no heals" with is not true. Sorcerers and NB have heals based on damages done : surge and strife.

Nowhere did i state anything about stacking shields. Still the only reliable active defense for sorcerers is hardened ward/ conjure ward/ empowering ward. I do not talk about stacking shields (sometimes i think ppl don´t even know what that means). I talk about using ONE shield because the class has no alternative to using that ONE shield.

Every class can achieve minor + major resolve and ward with relative ease - this is not sorcerer exclusive and only for your example comes at the cost of 3 ability slots. I guess you need to learn a bit yourself. Claiming you played a sorc since beta proves nothing.

I´ve stated on multiple occasions i´m all in favor of removing stacking shields alltogether - but that would require rebalancing on a couple of abilities and therefor is highly unlikely.

ToRelax · October 2015

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Just paraphrasing what Eric Wrobel said on ESO Live about 2 minutes ago:

So there's been a lot of talk about Shield Breaker on the forums. I think it's a very polarizing issue. I think Shield Breaker is a lot of fun for people using it, maybe less fun for people being killed by it. [...] I think it helps because now you can't just put 3 shields on your bar and have all those shields. [...] We may look at adding ability based counters to shields as well in the future.

Wow. Just wow. Not even a single acknowledgement of the Evil Hunter procing through shields w/ Shield Breaker bug, or the fact that Shield Breaker does not follow Battle Spirit damage reduction, or the fact that Shield Breaker procs on Harness Magicka w/ physical attacks.

If they don´t make the ability counter to shields magica based i´m seriously gonna break something.

All in all it´s a pretty *** poor response by a guy who has no idea about how the game actually works. I don´t see shieldbreaker as a large problem anymore but what i see as a problem is that a sorc has no alternative to using shields as their defense. The class is limited to the use of hardened ward as their defense skill. It´s not like there is a choice to use something else...

Also him mentioning that you can put up three shields and have those shields... That´s still the case. You never had three shields against stam builds (except if you were also using barrier). Magica users fight against three shields and they still have to do that - because that genious made shieldbreaker a stam thing...
But yeah. He think´s wall of elements is a vaible skill.

All i can think of is lastos comment regarding that guy. It stands 100% true to this very day.

Sorcerers who claim "we don't have other choices than shield stacking" do not know their class well enough or are liar in order to keep this broken mecanic, and i know what i say, i played a sorcerer since beta. Thundering form + bound armor gives you the best armor buff stacking class base (minor + major resolve + major ward). Put this on top of a single conjured ward and you actually have a real strong defense WITHOUT using any shield stack. Sure shield stacking is stronger, but it is a broken mecanic compared to what other classes can have.

Not to mention that people usually claim "sorcerers have no heals" with is not true. Sorcerers and NB have heals based on damages done : surge and strife.

NBs also have Refreshing Path and Sap Essence and Soul Tether. Sorc got Blood Magic and Clannfear - only Surge actually gives strong heals and that one is not as reliable as the NB heals. I wouldn't mind shield breaker *that* much if I could just stack HoTs like that instead of healing with a shield.

Also, Bound Armor just isn't a defensive skill anymore. It was nerfed by 90% with that buff system and got 8% max magicka instead. Any any class has access to the major spell and physical resistance buff, that doesn't make them tanky at all.

PS: I'm not saying I have to stack shields. I could do fine without - if that wouldn't put me at a massive disadvantage against other magicka builds and not help one bit against shieldbreaker.

Teargrants · October 2015

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Just paraphrasing what Eric Wrobel said on ESO Live about 2 minutes ago:

So there's been a lot of talk about Shield Breaker on the forums. I think it's a very polarizing issue. I think Shield Breaker is a lot of fun for people using it, maybe less fun for people being killed by it. [...] I think it helps because now you can't just put 3 shields on your bar and have all those shields. [...] We may look at adding ability based counters to shields as well in the future.

Wow. Just wow. Not even a single acknowledgement of the Evil Hunter procing through shields w/ Shield Breaker bug, or the fact that Shield Breaker does not follow Battle Spirit damage reduction, or the fact that Shield Breaker procs on Harness Magicka w/ physical attacks.

If they don´t make the ability counter to shields magica based i´m seriously gonna break something.

All in all it´s a pretty *** poor response by a guy who has no idea about how the game actually works. I don´t see shieldbreaker as a large problem anymore but what i see as a problem is that a sorc has no alternative to using shields as their defense. The class is limited to the use of hardened ward as their defense skill. It´s not like there is a choice to use something else...

Also him mentioning that you can put up three shields and have those shields... That´s still the case. You never had three shields against stam builds (except if you were also using barrier). Magica users fight against three shields and they still have to do that - because that genious made shieldbreaker a stam thing...
But yeah. He think´s wall of elements is a vaible skill.

All i can think of is lastos comment regarding that guy. It stands 100% true to this very day.

Sorcerers who claim "we don't have other choices than shield stacking" do not know their class well enough or are liar in order to keep this broken mecanic, and i know what i say, i played a sorcerer since beta. Thundering form + bound armor gives you the best armor buff stacking class base (minor + major resolve + major ward). Put this on top of a single conjured ward and you actually have a real strong defense WITHOUT using any shield stack. Sure shield stacking is stronger, but it is a broken mecanic compared to what other classes can have.

Not to mention that people usually claim "sorcerers have no heals" with is not true. Sorcerers and NB have heals based on damages done : surge and strife.

This is a parody response, right? Lightning Form for 5k armor/spell resist does not provide that much dmg mitigation to begin with. The actual useful aspects of it are speed boost & aoe to reveal Cloak spammers. Bound Armor is a joke of a skill, the minor buff provides less than 1k armor/spell resist, that's less than 2% dmg mitigation. 8% max magicka? Inner Light provides 5% + 2% from Mages Guild passives + 10% crit - superior in all situations to Bound Armor.

All that said and guess what, sorc does not have a viable class heal. Crit Surge 40% return = 20% after battle spirit. Healing yourself for 20% of your crit dmg is not a burst heal. Combining it with Degeneration on a desto build offers better returns, but you're still stuck relying on Healing Ward for a burst heal.

Alucardo · October 2015

Change the fifth piece to something similar to Hunding's (weapon damage) with the added benefit of dealing an additional 10-15% damage to shields (not the person with the shield, the actual shield) and let's call it a day.
The set would be useful in all scenarios then, and live up to its name "Shield Breaker".

ToRelax · October 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Change the fifth piece to something similar to Hunding's (weapon damage) with the added benefit of dealing an additional 10-15% damage to shields (not the person with the shield, the actual shield) and let's call it a day.
The set would be useful in all scenarios then, and live up to its name "Shield Breaker".

Well it would have to be less weapon damage than Hunding's obviously, but could deal a bit more damge to shields. Something like ~189 wp dmg (1 1/2 regular wp dmg bonuses) + 30% damage against shields.

contact.opiumb16_ESO · October 2015

@Derra i don't say YOU especially want to keep shield stack etc. "Every class can achieve minor + major resolve" : templars don't. Only the rune gives major resolve for 8s except if you stay in. DK have majot only, not major+minor stack. NB don't have any.

"your example comes at the cost of 3 ability slots" : 2 slots, that also gives a lot of other buffs.

"Claiming you played a sorc since beta proves nothing" : sure, but this argument can be argued for anyone so...

@ToRelax "NBs also have Refreshing Path and Sap Essence and Soul Tether" : Soul tether do not heal except IF the synergy is used by an ally+it's an ulti. You are right for refreshing path but in fights it is not very effective. Most non vampires NB use it for it speed buff, the hot is simply not good enough to be considered.

"Also, Bound Armor just isn't a defensive skill anymore" : bound aegis alone is indeed not so good but with boundless storm you have, with just 2 slots, Major+minor Resolve, Major+minor Ward, 8% max magicka, Major expedition, 'and a not very good AOE). It is a LOT of good buffs together, giving a huge passive mitigation.

"Any any class has access to the major spell and physical resistance buff, that doesn't make them tanky at all" : not true. Sorry but major+minor buff gives you a lot of mitigation, we can streak while in trouble, run fast and on top of that a good shield (hardened ward, the best class shield in game for now).

"Buff system is so lame, just takes away form fine tuning your stats / theorycrafting, wich is what I enjoy.
So, I'd rather go with shieldbreaker than not be able to configure my build myself." : so please don't complain about SB my friend. Any sorcerer (and i include myself in this) rely on shield stacking because it is very, very strong, and sorcerers who plays other classes know how broken it is. So, if sorcerers don't want to compromise in order to be in line with other classes, we can't complain about ZOS giving another more broken mecanic.

@Teargrants "This is a parody response, right?" no it is not.

"Lightning Form for 5k armor/spell resist does not provide that much dmg mitigation to begin with" maybe but it is the same mitigation buff that have other classes.

"Bound Armor is a joke of a skill, the minor buff provides less than 1k armor/spell resist" the logic of minor/major buffs is to stacks those 2 together. Get it ?

"All that said and guess what, sorc does not have a viable class heal. Crit Surge 40% return = 20% after battle spirit" as any other healing ability dude.

In PVP, the top 20 leaderboard is actually about 45% sorcerers, 45% NB, then comes DK, then templars. When you see it, you know their is something wrong. For sorcerers it is shield stacking, for NB it is cloak. No matter what people say, i have both of them, enjoy both but i know why those 2 caracters are way stronger than my templar. I can't speak for DK because i never played it.

ToRelax · October 2015

O_o

All right, let's clear the mess up.

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra i don't say YOU especially want to keep shield stack etc. "Every class can achieve minor + major resolve" : templars don't. Only the rune gives major resolve for 8s except if you stay in. DK have majot only, not major+minor stack. NB don't have any.

Shadow Barrier:
Activating a Shadow ability gives you Major Ward and Major Resolve, increasing Spell Resistance and Armor by 5120 for 2 seconds. This duration is increased by 1 second for each piece of Heavy Armor equipped.

And all Shadow skills are fantastic.

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

"your example comes at the cost of 3 ability slots" : 2 slots, that also gives a lot of other buffs.

Look, Boundless Storm is a good skill, costs one skill slot and provides you with a small AoE, a bit of mitigation and most importantly, a speedbuff.
Bound Aegis is a bad skill, it costs two to three skill slots and provides you with an amount of mitigation that is barely worth mentioning as well as 8% max magicka. It's in any way inferior to Inner Light and just look how many people are running that in PvP.

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

ToRelax "NBs also have Refreshing Path and Sap Essence and Soul Tether" : Soul tether do not heal except IF the synergy is used by an ally+it's an ulti. You are right for refreshing path but in fights it is not very effective. Most non vampires NB use it for it speed buff, the hot is simply not good enough to be considered.

Soul Tether is putting a life stealing DoT on up to 6 nearby enemies. That synergy is useless.
The HoT on Refreshing Path is actually great. Just try it out, it's very effective and the only reason I choose that skill over Double Take or Crippling Grasp on my NB - wich are providing the same speedbuff. Also, There is no point in not using it because you're vamp, vamp doesn't give you a speedbuff.

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

"Also, Bound Armor just isn't a defensive skill anymore" : bound aegis alone is indeed not so good but with boundless storm you have, with just 2 slots, Major+minor Resolve, Major+minor Ward, 8% max magicka, Major expedition, 'and a not very good AOE). It is a LOT of good buffs together, giving a huge passive mitigation.

As I said, both together cost you 3-4 slots. The mitigation of both together is around 12% and does not even work while you have a shield active.

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

"Any any class has access to the major spell and physical resistance buff, that doesn't make them tanky at all" : not true. Sorry but major+minor buff gives you a lot of mitigation, we can streak while in trouble, run fast and on top of that a good shield (hardened ward, the best class shield in game for now).

Do you even read? I said it's not what makes other classes (builds) tanky. And it will do the least for someone using a damage shield. Can't be that hard.

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

"Buff system is so lame, just takes away form fine tuning your stats / theorycrafting, wich is what I enjoy.
So, I'd rather go with shieldbreaker than not be able to configure my build myself." : so please don't complain about SB my friend. Any sorcerer (and i include myself in this) rely on shield stacking because it is very, very strong, and sorcerers who plays other classes know how broken it is. So, if sorcerers don't want to compromise in order to be in line with other classes, we can't complain about ZOS giving another more broken mecanic.

I play other classes and I know how broken it is. So change Healing Ward that it's not a shield anymore and remove Harness Magicka completely, put some other skill in it's place.
So why the *** should I by happy with Shieldbreaker now?

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

"Lightning Form for 5k armor/spell resist does not provide that much dmg mitigation to begin with" maybe but it is the same mitigation buff that have other classes.

How often? No build just relies on that "major" mitigation buff. it just doesn't work that way.

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

"All that said and guess what, sorc does not have a viable class heal. Crit Surge 40% return = 20% after battle spirit" as any other healing ability dude.

So you say Breath of Life is comparable to Surge?

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

In PVP, the top 20 leaderboard is actually about 45% sorcerers, 45% NB, then comes DK, then templars. When you see it, you know their is something wrong. For sorcerers it is shield stacking, for NB it is cloak. No matter what people say, i have both of them, enjoy both but i know why those 2 caracters are way stronger than my templar. I can't speak for DK because i never played it.

Leaderboards rofl
Go out and spam Rapid Regen, than you should get an idea of how accurately the leaderboards reflect class balance...

kevlarto_ESO · October 2015

ESO live 10/15/15, shield breaker is not going anywhere, in fact Eric gave some ideas on how counter it, so all the whining is now on deaf ears..

Derra · October 2015

contact.opiumb16_ESO wrote: »

@Derra i don't say YOU especially want to keep shield stack etc. "Every class can achieve minor + major resolve" : templars don't. Only the rune gives major resolve for 8s except if you stay in. DK have majot only, not major+minor stack. NB don't have any.

All i will say is:

Blessing of Restoration + Shadowbarrier / Rune Focus / Volatile Armor / Immovable.

I´d trade rune focus against Stormarmor in an instant. It´s one of the best skills in the game thanks to it´s secondary effects.

All classes can achieve this in some way. All classes except sorc have defensive utility that is not countered by a setbonus.

Jules · October 2015

As someone who doesn't usually play a Sorc, my opinion of sorc shields is that they need a viable counter. Without it, the class is simply too strong as it has mobility, tankiness and damage with little to no weakness. However there's 1000 better ways to counter shield stacking than this set, if that's infact what the aim was. Could've made shields 25-50% weaker if placed on top of other shields. Could've made hardened ward scale off of health like every other shield in the game.

As far as the actual set, make the irresistible damage hit the actual shield rather than circumvent it and hitting the players health. However with average sorc shields being 20k, it's going to need to hit harder than 2k to be a viable counter. Not sure what the exact number would be.

Edit: also, think it's asinine that the set procs off harness magicka/dampen as this shield doesn't protect one from physical attacks. That needs to be addressed.

contact.opiumb16_ESO · October 2015

@ToRelax you are the most dishonest guy i have ever read in this forum. I won't argue with you anymore. Any honnest pvp player knows how strong sorcerer are, way stronger than 50% of the other classes AKA templars and DK. Stay in you lil sorcerer lobby PoV i don't care. Guys like you are the one after release who said "no dunmer magicka DK vamp are not op, just L2P" when ANYONE knew (even those dunmer DK) how broken and OP this build was. I can explain in long terms how OP sorcerers are compared to DK and temps but i don't argue with you anymore. Enjoy your QQ in forums about a broken solution given by ZOS to "fix" a broken game mecanic wich is shield stacking.

@Derra "I´d trade rune focus against Stormarmor in an instant. It´s one of the best skills in the game thanks to it´s secondary effects." i loled so hard ! no comment

CU guys i will not give any response to this trash thread

Darnathian · October 2015

LegendaryChef wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

Fenrlr wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

because I wouldn't even feel like I had accomplished a single thing if I won.

That's the same reason i decided to never roll a sorc

I've been a sorc since the day I started playing the game and I'm currently levelling a Templar because I'm tired of people saying that. Yes we have shields and stack them well over 30k, we deal HUGE damage and never take any back because we can streak away from danger as much as we want and shield again, we have infinite magicka pools and we never EVER have to block because shields. (Got a bit carried away sorry)

To sit and say that it doesn't take any skill to play sorc is completely ridiculous.

That's the problem. Chou shouldn't have to reroll. Help us find balance. Come up with ideas to help fix the problem. In this case it is shield stacking

What changed that wasn't here at the beginning of the game allowing this? The damn champion system. The only viable counter was to attack their stamina. champion system fix led that. Along with guardian set. I literally had a guy that I burnt with my Magicka DK /t me that watch out. Once he got his cp's up he would ..... my face. Turns out he was right.

I'm all for being able to crit shields, I think that would be a lot more of a balance than shieldbreaker anyway, 100% mitigation with a crit would seem reasonable against shields and I see that as being more of a fix IMO.

How does that fix it though? The. The sorc just recasts in a second. The. When it doesn't crit you are dead

With being able to crit shields you could do a lot more damage to them because as I've ALREADY SAID (feel like a broken record on the forum) you get 100% mitigation and then the crit on top of that would do nice damage overall but to simply just be able to go through the shield with up to 10k damage is disgusting and should never have been what SB was.

Not really in the mood for typing essays again for people who clearly haven't read what I've wrote but as I've spoofed your other post I'll tell you the my name is The Bald Mage and if you haven't heard of me IDGAF. Keep defending SB all you like but at some point or another your gona realise yourself how stupid this set is when your team fires a healing ward on you and your a non vamp but still take like 8k damage just from your team trying to give you a helping hand. Yes it does most affect sorcs but your all gona get a death from it at some point just a lot less than us.

B R O K E N.

Then read all my posts hypocrit. Long before shield breaker came out I was advocating removing shield stacking. You ignore that just like all the other sorcs because that would bring balance. But sorcs just want to hide behind their shields.

Critable shields is a solution. Just not the best one.

You sound like a player that has never killed a sorc in his life lmao. I know plenty of guys that can kill me 1v1 and they have never had to use shield breaker before or now because they improved and got better. I look at it like when you used to play games on you play station and you got stuck on a hard level that you try over and over, you know that if you do put your mind to it you can win, but instead you use a different root which allows you to skip the hard part and you don't even have to do any of the hard work. It's lazy. It's boring. Last of all it's BROKEN. Being able to crit shields would do a lot more damage and also makes a lot more sense than SB and just being able to go straight through a sorcs main defense.

Give me an alternative solution that IS NOT shield breaker and I'll happily listen but if your just going to defend it and tell me it's "balance" then I won't waste another finger typing to you because your blind the rest of the people defending it's current state.

I DID. right in the one you quoted which you ignored again.

Remove shield stacking.

I don't think critable shields are enough. They will just reapply them. Never killed a sorc? I literally melted them before the co system and the FOTM build became public. It was easy. Drain their stamina and kill them if they didn't blink away.

Your comment does nothing to this conversation.

Keep deflecting.

Darnathian · October 2015

Derra wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

Fenrlr wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

because I wouldn't even feel like I had accomplished a single thing if I won.

That's the same reason i decided to never roll a sorc

I've been a sorc since the day I started playing the game and I'm currently levelling a Templar because I'm tired of people saying that. Yes we have shields and stack them well over 30k, we deal HUGE damage and never take any back because we can streak away from danger as much as we want and shield again, we have infinite magicka pools and we never EVER have to block because shields. (Got a bit carried away sorry)

To sit and say that it doesn't take any skill to play sorc is completely ridiculous.

That's the problem. Chou shouldn't have to reroll. Help us find balance. Come up with ideas to help fix the problem. In this case it is shield stacking

What changed that wasn't here at the beginning of the game allowing this? The damn champion system. The only viable counter was to attack their stamina. champion system fix led that. Along with guardian set. I literally had a guy that I burnt with my Magicka DK /t me that watch out. Once he got his cp's up he would ..... my face. Turns out he was right.

I'm all for being able to crit shields, I think that would be a lot more of a balance than shieldbreaker anyway, 100% mitigation with a crit would seem reasonable against shields and I see that as being more of a fix IMO.

How does that fix it though? The. The sorc just recasts in a second. The. When it doesn't crit you are dead

With being able to crit shields you could do a lot more damage to them because as I've ALREADY SAID (feel like a broken record on the forum) you get 100% mitigation and then the crit on top of that would do nice damage overall but to simply just be able to go through the shield with up to 10k damage is disgusting and should never have been what SB was.

Not really in the mood for typing essays again for people who clearly haven't read what I've wrote but as I've spoofed your other post I'll tell you the my name is The Bald Mage and if you haven't heard of me IDGAF. Keep defending SB all you like but at some point or another your gona realise yourself how stupid this set is when your team fires a healing ward on you and your a non vamp but still take like 8k damage just from your team trying to give you a helping hand. Yes it does most affect sorcs but your all gona get a death from it at some point just a lot less than us.

B R O K E N.

Then read all my posts hypocrit. Long before shield breaker came out I was advocating removing shield stacking. You ignore that just like all the other sorcs because that would bring balance. But sorcs just want to hide behind their shields.

Critable shields is a solution. Just not the best one.

The problem with non stackable shields would be:

1. They´d have to rework harnessmagica / dampen magic. A magica only shield that can not be combined with other shields it pretty obsolete with the popularity of stamina builds currently.
2. Healing ward would have to be reworked as you could no longer reliably heal allies if they had a shield for themselves. ZOS once stated they liked the healingward mechanic bc it was different from templar bol healing.

These two things make unstackable shields highly unlikely as they´d require work and rebalancing.
I´m all for unstackable shields though. I hate sorcs hiding behind harness + hardened and healingward once they drop low. Still most of them die anyways.

You got me there. Two great points.

Only thing I could recommend would be like to make it a damage shield not just magick.

Darnathian · October 2015

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

Fenrlr wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

because I wouldn't even feel like I had accomplished a single thing if I won.

That's the same reason i decided to never roll a sorc

I've been a sorc since the day I started playing the game and I'm currently levelling a Templar because I'm tired of people saying that. Yes we have shields and stack them well over 30k, we deal HUGE damage and never take any back because we can streak away from danger as much as we want and shield again, we have infinite magicka pools and we never EVER have to block because shields. (Got a bit carried away sorry)

To sit and say that it doesn't take any skill to play sorc is completely ridiculous.

That's the problem. Chou shouldn't have to reroll. Help us find balance. Come up with ideas to help fix the problem. In this case it is shield stacking

What changed that wasn't here at the beginning of the game allowing this? The damn champion system. The only viable counter was to attack their stamina. champion system fix led that. Along with guardian set. I literally had a guy that I burnt with my Magicka DK /t me that watch out. Once he got his cp's up he would ..... my face. Turns out he was right.

I'm all for being able to crit shields, I think that would be a lot more of a balance than shieldbreaker anyway, 100% mitigation with a crit would seem reasonable against shields and I see that as being more of a fix IMO.

How does that fix it though? The. The sorc just recasts in a second. The. When it doesn't crit you are dead

With being able to crit shields you could do a lot more damage to them because as I've ALREADY SAID (feel like a broken record on the forum) you get 100% mitigation and then the crit on top of that would do nice damage overall but to simply just be able to go through the shield with up to 10k damage is disgusting and should never have been what SB was.

Not really in the mood for typing essays again for people who clearly haven't read what I've wrote but as I've spoofed your other post I'll tell you the my name is The Bald Mage and if you haven't heard of me IDGAF. Keep defending SB all you like but at some point or another your gona realise yourself how stupid this set is when your team fires a healing ward on you and your a non vamp but still take like 8k damage just from your team trying to give you a helping hand. Yes it does most affect sorcs but your all gona get a death from it at some point just a lot less than us.

B R O K E N.

Then read all my posts hypocrit. Long before shield breaker came out I was advocating removing shield stacking. You ignore that just like all the other sorcs because that would bring balance. But sorcs just want to hide behind their shields.

Critable shields is a solution. Just not the best one.

The problem with non stackable shields would be:

1. They´d have to rework harnessmagica / dampen magic. A magica only shield that can not be combined with other shields it pretty obsolete with the popularity of stamina builds currently.
2. Healing ward would have to be reworked as you could no longer reliably heal allies if they had a shield for themselves. ZOS once stated they liked the healingward mechanic bc it was different from templar bol healing.

These two things make unstackable shields highly unlikely as they´d require work and rebalancing.
I´m all for unstackable shields though. I hate sorcs hiding behind harness + hardened and healingward once they drop low. Still most of them die anyways.

What's funny is that stamina users got the SB set, instead of magic users who need it much more.

Edit: I'm not advocating for SB set at all, but magicka users should have gotten SB if they had to release the stupid set.

I thought about that on my dk but I will not do it. The set needs to go. It was a terrible bandaid and unfair to shield users. Don't hate on players for using tools Zos gave them though.

RoamingRiverElk · October 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

So change Healing Ward that it's not a shield anymore and remove Harness Magicka completely, put some other skill in it's place.

I don't want Harness Magicka removed. It is very useful on a sorcerer, but at the same time, I also use it on my other classes to counter sorcs a little (depending on how much max magicka my character is able to have, since not all magicka builds can put nearly everything into max magicka). Now that blocking was nerfed, one needs something extra on top of one's health so that one doesn't get burst down so easily while not blocking.

Derra wrote:

All classes except sorc have defensive utility that is not countered by a setbonus.

Ball of Lightning has double defensive utility - it lets one bolt in a direction of one's choosing (at times even over chasms other players can't cross) and gives protection against spell projectiles for a while, so I do count that as defensive utility.

That being said, I don't want sorcs to be nerfed, I don't want nightblades to be nerfed. I want DKs and templars to be buffed. I want blocking to be a viable option for a magicka build again. I want us to be able to dodge roll more than we can currently (not endlessly, but more).

I think that in fights where people are outnumbering the enemy, Shield Breaker on a bow is totally OP and functions against not only sorcs, but pretty much against every magicka build or anyone around someone using igneous shield or healing ward. It is part of a larger issue that favors unskilled zerg play (that is not to say that all who run Shield Breaker are skilless, however). It should have a cooldown or only do its damage against shields, not against health.

Darnathian · October 2015

Derra wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Just paraphrasing what Eric Wrobel said on ESO Live about 2 minutes ago:

So there's been a lot of talk about Shield Breaker on the forums. I think it's a very polarizing issue. I think Shield Breaker is a lot of fun for people using it, maybe less fun for people being killed by it. [...] I think it helps because now you can't just put 3 shields on your bar and have all those shields. [...] We may look at adding ability based counters to shields as well in the future.

Wow. Just wow. Not even a single acknowledgement of the Evil Hunter procing through shields w/ Shield Breaker bug, or the fact that Shield Breaker does not follow Battle Spirit damage reduction, or the fact that Shield Breaker procs on Harness Magicka w/ physical attacks.

If they don´t make the ability counter to shields magica based i´m seriously gonna break something.

All in all it´s a pretty *** poor response by a guy who has no idea about how the game actually works. I don´t see shieldbreaker as a large problem anymore but what i see as a problem is that a sorc has no alternative to using shields as their defense. The class is limited to the use of hardened ward as their defense skill. It´s not like there is a choice to use something else...
Shieldbreaker further forces you to use resto staff because the class defense is a shield and therefor you don´t get a vaible heal all that with the burstheal of the restostaff skillline being - a shield. Ironic.

Also him mentioning that you can put up three shields and have those shields... That´s still the case. You never had three shields against stam builds (except if you were also using barrier). Magica users fight against three shields and they still have to do that - because that genious made shieldbreaker a stam thing...
But yeah. He think´s wall of elements is a vaible skill.

All i can think of is lastos comment regarding that guy. It stands 100% true to this very day. I don´t get how he´s keeping his job.

This is such a simple fix. HIRE DAMN CONSULTANTS. Consult some of those guys from the podcast to help fix the game. Make sure you get a couple raid leaders. Do your own podcast for a couple hours a week and talk to these damn decision makers and programmers at Zos. Won't cost you much and these players get paid for their expertise in pvping. They will do it.

Note: only for pvp changes.