DannyLV702 wrote: »

_Proteus_ wrote: »

It's this thread again! I wonder what happens if you gap close a NB and then use an aoe. Or use a detect pot. Or throw down caltrops on top of where the NB was a second ago. Or use radiant magelight and then keep gap closing on them once they come out of stealth.

If you thing that bullsh*t works then you need to play something other than your nightblade

Your kidding right? One gap close followed by sap/steel tornado and their cloak is broken every single time.

invasion-> talons

etc etc. Even BETTER if it's a stamblade, they can only use cloak tops 3 times.

EDIT: ZOS themselves even acknowledge there's legitimate counters to this skill and will take them into consideration before any adjustments are made. And as Armitas has said below me they should never had interfered with the balance in the first place they should have not touched detect pots at all.

Armitas wrote: »

What I hate about all this is the main reason these nerf threads are occurring is because of the nerf to detect pots. So now the skill is likely going to get nerfed because ZOS made the poor decision to nerf detect pots. When cloak inevitably gets nerfed it will be the result of two groups of players, those that begged for pots nerfs, and those that begged for cloak to be nerfed as a result of the previous nerf. There was no reason to nerf the pots in the first place, stealth detect has plenty of counters as well as a hard counter, shadow image and cloak. When cloak gets nerfed it will be a travesty to the class that never need to have happened but did happen because ZOS interfered for no reason.

It won't get nerfed. Many of the people that make these post are like the same 5 or 10 ppl just making new threads to make it seem like more ppl want it. Also, there is no grantee that cloak works everytime so you can't give same treatment as boltescape. Can't increase cost or else unusable for stam. Also, these forums are a small fraction of what the population thinks. The only reasonable nerf I can think 9f is no magika regen while in cloak.

Dracane wrote: »

I don't think, it needs to be discussed that cloak needs a penalty.
No regen while cloaked sounds good. I actually like the bolt escape treatment better. But Zenimax wants to be careful..... how can they be carefull with such an overpowered ability.

Dracane back at the cloak is op line

You cant give volt escape treatment. Streak is a grated ability. Cloak is not. Therefore, giving BE treatment means that wither by the time you get it to work you are out of magika or it never works and your out.

@Dracane what about sorcs? Shield-encase-mines-bolt escape....nothing wrong there right? Every pisses and moans about cloak when what REALLY needs nerfing is sorcs. Nightblades have cloak and that's it, that's their defense. Now they actually fixed cloak counters, more stuff pulls NB's out of cloak than before the last update. It's easier to counter NB's now.

Imo, cloak should funtion as is but be slightly viable similar to mist. It is cloak, not invisable. And Cloak should not drop agro.

Armitas wrote: »

I don't play a night blade but I worry that stopping magicka recovery while cloaked would severely damage a stamblades ability to stealth. I could just as well be wrong though as I don't play the class.

hmm I can manage 3 cloaks with drinks and vampirism before I'm fresh out of magicka. I use magicka for relentless focus and fear too. I don't use double take anymore because it's just too much. Opting instead for Shuffle. In a small group I run mark which is another magicka ability.
A nerf to magicka regen while cloaked would essentially mean I'd have to drop fear or focus.
People don't seem to realize how HUGE a magicka sink cloak is for a stamblade and it still doesn't work properally sometimes
Cloak would only ever be used for the DOT removal for a stamblade if this change occurs. How would one define a NB playstyle then? Class identity would be gone at least for stamblades. It's the same situation going with stamDK's atm and it's a damn shame. Most stamn DK's are just a weapon class not a DK and I don't want this to happen to any other class (lose it's identity)

Infinite12 wrote: »

@Dracane what about sorcs? Shield-encase-mines-bolt escape....nothing wrong there right? Every pisses and moans about cloak when what REALLY needs nerfing is sorcs. Nightblades have cloak and that's it, that's their defense. Now they actually fixed cloak counters, more stuff pulls NB's out of cloak than before the last update. It's easier to counter NB's now.

On the paper probably. But reality is different.
Cloak combined with the high speed of nightblades and probably even teleport shade if you mean it really serious, makes cloak almost impossible to counter,

I can't write it down, I would need to show you and talk to you to show you, that cloak is way too strong currently. it's the strongest survival mechanic in the game.
And Magicka Nightblades have strong damage shields on top and Stamblades can roll dodge all the time and have Vigor. Nightblades are not squishy, this is the biggest lie of all. Nightblade can be the hardest class to kill.

Malanor wrote: »

the cloack itself aint that OP. But the entire setup of NB skills makes him so powerful.

Then why do they get smacked down all the time?

I've been leveling up a templar in the sewers, so this guy is true green, at least one slot on my main bar is used for leveling, and I'm not even that keen on the templar playstyle yet, so you think I'd be a super easy target for NB's. But when they come out and jump me I either: A) survive long enough to get help, Kill them outright, C) drive them away and go about my business, or D) die after a long competitive fight. It's actually a pretty healthy balance between all of these and this is coming from a lowbie templar who just jab spams and keeps up my defenses for stopping big attacks like WB. How do I handle cloak spam? I toss a shard into the areas where a nb will most likely move towards in their efforts to get away. Once their movement patterns are established, cloak is essentially useless. This is exactly how I kill people on my v16 fully geared NB, and the same tactics work on a lowbie temp, or on my sorc or on my dk.

The complaints against cloak are an L2P issue. It's a class defining skill, but I can't think of any NB that I think of as even being "OP" and there are plenty of people who have killed me enough times that I'm certainly not that either.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Here is the Nightblade "elite skillz"

Stealth and wait
WB WB cloak WB WB gg

You MAY see, WB assault WB sneak attack WB, if not dead cloak.

There is a very noticeable pattern of only two moves...

In your scenario WB is the issue not stealth.

As a NB I learned to counter cloak with Sap Essence. Does it always work? No, and it's annoying when stamblades disappear and then reappear with full health. If I really wanted to counter cloak I would slot Piercing Mark, but I prefer to be able to deal with a variety of situations than spec to kill a certain class/build.

If nerfing cloak is really being considered by ZOS, I would add that simply putting an equivalent to Piercing Mark in the Alliance War tree would be sufficient. The counters are already there, don't nerf Cloak, add more counters maybe, but Cloak is fine. I play every class btw not just NB and it's just something you have to learn to deal with like flappy wings and BoL and shielded sorcs standing in their mines.

Dracane wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

As a NB I learned to counter cloak with Sap Essence. Does it always work? No, and it's annoying when stamblades disappear and then reappear with full health. If I really wanted to counter cloak I would slot Piercing Mark, but I prefer to be able to deal with a variety of situations than spec to kill a certain class/build.

If nerfing cloak is really being considered by ZOS, I would add that simply putting an equivalent to Piercing Mark in the Alliance War tree would be sufficient. The counters are already there, don't nerf Cloak, add more counters maybe, but Cloak is fine. I play every class btw not just NB and it's just something you have to learn to deal with like flappy wings and BoL and shielded sorcs standing in their mines.

Cloak gets abused to have full control over each battle, just like bolt escape in its golden days.
Time that this stops. Cloak actually is superior at controlling battle in its own way.

I wouldn't say it's being abused in that way, that's pretty much how it was intended. How else can NB's survive in combat, 20% dodge is meh, healing ward is honestly still a bit OP but not enough (even with NB HoTs). A nerf to cloak would hurt plenty of NB's who don't permacloak (like me) but who do need to spam Cloak from time to time. Curse removes NB's from Cloak btw and there is usually time to reapply that Curse when they are popped out of stealth from the first one.

I will admit that as a NB I have it easy compared to those poor magic DK's

Dracane wrote: »

And Magicka Nightblades have strong damage shields on top and Stamblades can roll dodge all the time and have Vigor. Nightblades are not squishy, this is the biggest lie of all. Nightblade can be the hardest class to kill.

They have damage shields? I would like to know what skill that is, because anything remotely similar to a damage shield is Mirage and that's just a physical resistance buff that has a 30 second duration including 20% dodge rate.

And, Nightblades are squishy. It is not a lie just because you say it is. Where I can argue that statement, I would be more inclined to agree with "Nightblades can be made tanks." versus all nightblades not being squishy. The typical Nightblade runs medium armor and possible one or two heavy pieces. The ones that wear medium armor and light armor are the squishiest. Leaving only the solo heavy armor wearer being the tank. Though, this can be said about any class. Hell, my old sorcerer was a tank.

I've said it time and time again that Cloak is not the issue. Cloak does no damage, cloak is EASILY counterable and despite mainly claims in the contrary, Cloak doesn't last forever.

You can't just cloak out and run whenever you feel like it, there are limits to this already. If you are in the middle of a fight and being CC'd, mid swing in an attack or taking damage, you can't cloak. Granted in some skills you can animation cancel and then cloak, but more often, animation cancelling to cloak will cause you to take damage from whoever you are fighting.

Any CC, Root or AoE can pull a NB out of cloak. Don't believe me? Grab a friend and test it out. You don't have to just buy/make dect pots or even use Radiant Magelight. Each and every class, including nightblade, has an AoE or a CC that pulls people out of cloak. Also worth mentioning, with the recent update, certain CC/Roots now properly damage NB's while cloaked, on top of pulling them out of it. So, you now can damage and CC and REVEAL them if you just use your skills that ZOS provided.

What I don't understand is why people are so quick to jump to nerf threads to complain instead of actually learning how to play the game as it is intended. This community really disappoints me sometimes.

juan0316 wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

juan0316 wrote: »

Oh look yet another nerf cloack topic, l2p

You're the one that's gonna have to actually l2p when your iwin button is nerfed

Funny because Im not a magicka NB and can only cloak 2, 3 times if Im lucky and have gotten beaten by good players regardless. So once again L2P.

It is alright. Anyone who thinks it is an I win button is crazy. And good player can counter it. If they think it is I win then they need to l2p against a nb.

What is so funny is the fact that no one saw an issue with this ability until more people started rolling nb. I used nb back when dk was reigning supreme and used cloak the same way I do now. Only then there were not many ppl running into nb so no reason to slot a counter. Now ppl have to change there build to slot a counter because more nb. Basically, ppl are whining cause enough people use it to where it effects the skills they want to slot.

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

And Magicka Nightblades have strong damage shields on top and Stamblades can roll dodge all the time and have Vigor. Nightblades are not squishy, this is the biggest lie of all. Nightblade can be the hardest class to kill.

They have damage shields? I would like to know what skill that is, because anything remotely similar to a damage shield is Mirage and that's just a physical resistance buff that has a 30 second duration including 20% dodge rate.

And, Nightblades are squishy. It is not a lie just because you say it is. Where I can argue that statement, I would be more inclined to agree with "Nightblades can be made tanks." versus all nightblades not being squishy. The typical Nightblade runs medium armor and possible one or two heavy pieces. The ones that wear medium armor and light armor are the squishiest. Leaving only the solo heavy armor wearer being the tank. Though, this can be said about any class. Hell, my old sorcerer was a tank.

I've said it time and time again that Cloak is not the issue. Cloak does no damage, cloak is EASILY counterable and despite mainly claims in the contrary, Cloak doesn't last forever.

You can't just cloak out and run whenever you feel like it, there are limits to this already. If you are in the middle of a fight and being CC'd, mid swing in an attack or taking damage, you can't cloak. Granted in some skills you can animation cancel and then cloak, but more often, animation cancelling to cloak will cause you to take damage from whoever you are fighting.

Any CC, Root or AoE can pull a NB out of cloak. Don't believe me? Grab a friend and test it out. You don't have to just buy/make dect pots or even use Radiant Magelight. Each and every class, including nightblade, has an AoE or a CC that pulls people out of cloak. Also worth mentioning, with the recent update, certain CC/Roots now properly damage NB's while cloaked, on top of pulling them out of it. So, you now can damage and CC and REVEAL them if you just use your skills that ZOS provided.

What I don't understand is why people are so quick to jump to nerf threads to complain instead of actually learning how to play the game as it is intended. This community really disappoints me sometimes.

Harness Magicka and Healing Ward. You can't always look at your class skills to justify your Pro-Nightblade-Supremacy campaign. You have acces to these shields and they make you immortal combined with cloak. Which is because healing ward is a broken ability.

Just like wrecking blow (a non class ability) is the backbone of most stamina builds and Vigor (a non class heal) is essential for each stamina build. You must consider synergies between your class arsenal and other skill lines.
Sorcerer would be a joke if there wasn't force shock (which actually is a joke itself)

With that being said, you can't just look at your class abilities and call it a day. All of that would be true, if there were no weapon abilities etc. But this is not the case.

PS: no, a root does not pull Nbs out of cloak. grab a friend and encase him and see what happens. Cloak does not get destroyed. I imagine talons can indeed destroy cloak, because they also deal damage for some silly reason.