Shield Breaker needs to go

Acts · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

Acts wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

People can't counter this in a 1 v 1? And what are you doing while this player is spamming light attacks at you? Are you use degeneration? Power Surge? Tri-stats? Any of these things will counter 3-4 seconds of shield breaker spam while you're doing far more damage to the other player.

If you cant do more than 4K DPS to another player spamming you with light attacks then you're doing it wrong. Every time they cast or do anything they're not attack you. This is where dodge roll becomes more useful.

I'm just not seeing it.

In the 1v1 tests I have have ran, Which are 1v1 situations, Shield breaker will come out ontop.

What really makes this set OP is when a NB can Weave 8k Surprise attacks with the light attacks and throw in an Ulti.
That cannot be outhealed or Mitigated.
You cannot do anything against a Strong player who does this.

You cannot out pressure them when There Heals with Vigor and Rally can Out heal Most Sorc Builds DPS, while still being able to do massive damage and even CC with Fear.

So you are being Melee to death by a nightblade running this? Makes zero sense to me. I guess I just have to run into a good nightblade using it. It seems to me that people are just stuck on the whole max shield, no other defense meta who are having problems here. The suprise attack damage is hitting the shield, as is the ulti. The only thing hitting behind your shields is shield breaker which is 2K a second at best(since using a SA weave).

Mines heal you for close to 1K and there is 5 of them that NB should be eating while he's attacking you. Then if he is SAing your face he's going to be eating fragments or overload and if degen procs or I get a crit I'm at 100% health again. I'd love to see a NB out DPS my overload while trying to heal himself.

The Tests I ran was against people who have Really high Weapon damage, Pulling 8-9k Surpise attacks.
Doing that much damage while weaving Light attacks to proc Shield breaker will kill you really fast.

You Might think to say Streak to get away, Tried that
Ambush, Crit rush. Fixes that.

So use mines? With people who have about 400 CP and 100 into hardy, They only do about 3-4K. ( Based off my Build )
Rotate around the mines to keep Distance? Vigor and Rally actually out heal my Mines damage. Not really Phasing them.
The Root should help? Not with Elude or whatever the morph is that Give you immunity for a few secs.

These Tests I did are against Really good PVP'ers, Not any PVE'er.

Soulac · October 2015

Acts wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

People can't counter this in a 1 v 1? And what are you doing while this player is spamming light attacks at you? Are you use degeneration? Power Surge? Tri-stats? Any of these things will counter 3-4 seconds of shield breaker spam while you're doing far more damage to the other player.

If you cant do more than 4K DPS to another player spamming you with light attacks then you're doing it wrong. Every time they cast or do anything they're not attack you. This is where dodge roll becomes more useful.

I'm just not seeing it.

In the 1v1 tests I have have ran, Which are 1v1 situations, Shield breaker will come out ontop.

What really makes this set OP is when a NB can Weave 8k Surprise attacks with the light attacks and throw in an Ulti.
That cannot be outhealed or Mitigated.
You cannot do anything against a Strong player who does this.

You cannot out pressure them when There Heals with Vigor and Rally can Out heal Most Sorc Builds DPS, while still being able to do massive damage and even CC with Fear.

@Hexys

CP5 · October 2015

Galalin wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

shields are sorcs main defence and that's a fact.

And the effectiveness of that "defense" is the issue. As we have discussed in numerous threads, the issue is that huge damage shields, that are spammable, combined with mobility and dps creates a vastly unbalanced PvP class/build.

Sorc's as a class only have the one shield, DK's have more damage shields (2). The huge shields you see are a combination of ward, annulment, and healing ward. Have you tried killing a decent magicka nb who has healing ward slotted? It all comes back to a player using healing ward then defending that ward until the heal goes off.

Are you seriously comparing DK shields to that of sorc shield stacking and claiming DK have more shields? you gonna sit here and say a DK can produce a higher shield than a sorc?

and if your not saying that then wth would you even make that comment?

DK SCRUB OUT

I was pointing out that dk's have double the number of shields as sorcs, to drive the point that shields aren't a rare thing in the game. People's first thought when talking about shields is generally sorcs, and I want people to 1. think about that, and 2. think about how many other shields are in the game. I only made comment to number of shields and didn't compare power.

Hexys · October 2015

Soulac wrote: »

Acts wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

People can't counter this in a 1 v 1? And what are you doing while this player is spamming light attacks at you? Are you use degeneration? Power Surge? Tri-stats? Any of these things will counter 3-4 seconds of shield breaker spam while you're doing far more damage to the other player.

If you cant do more than 4K DPS to another player spamming you with light attacks then you're doing it wrong. Every time they cast or do anything they're not attack you. This is where dodge roll becomes more useful.

I'm just not seeing it.

In the 1v1 tests I have have ran, Which are 1v1 situations, Shield breaker will come out ontop.

What really makes this set OP is when a NB can Weave 8k Surprise attacks with the light attacks and throw in an Ulti.
That cannot be outhealed or Mitigated.
You cannot do anything against a Strong player who does this.

You cannot out pressure them when There Heals with Vigor and Rally can Out heal Most Sorc Builds DPS, while still being able to do massive damage and even CC with Fear.

@Hexys

hahahaha you basterd

Muizer · October 2015

Xsorus wrote: »

Instead of saying "sorcs are fine" or "shields are fine" you'll take everyone's suggestion seriously about possibly toning down your op class or abilities instead of letting the devs try and come up with ways.

Shields had no counter, now they do.. Suck it up

It's a sign of inexperience IMHO. I know I was like that when I first started playing video games. I'd go onto the forums and make all sorts of suggestions and counter those of others as if it would make a difference. It doesn't. Devs don't jump on forum bandwagons. They may listen to feedback but they will always do their own checks and if they realise there is a problem, they will come up with their own solution.

Derra · October 2015

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

You can outheal the damage. Blessing of restoration + rapid regen is enough to outheal it with some CP into increased healing.

If you're facing multiple players? Well, ZOS don't want 1vX.

Once someone uses healdebuffs you need purge also. Three extra abilities addet to normal defense spells just to counter the set. Nice one.

Thats what all magicka templars use to PvP since we were not given the pleasure to use a good class based damage shield. Considering the amount of times i spam the BoL button, i would take equivalent strength blazing shield of hardened ward. Even if it was with 6 second duration. The idea of shields negating execute damage and crits and denying damage before its done is worth alot. Sorcs just want it the easy way.

Are you kidding me?

A templar needs their classpurge and bol.

A sorc needs restoheal1 + restoheal2 + alliancepurge + classshield.

All to fight against a freaking setbonus. But thanks for smearing your ignorance into everyones face who bothers to read this topic.

Alucardo · October 2015

delete. fkn forums

Alucardo · October 2015

I spent all morning soloing IC to afford this set so I can grief sorcs in non-vet campaigns with my CPs and Shield Breaker. If you get my set nerfed I will be extremely unhappy.

P.S. I'm having a great time. Love to you all

Edit: Just in case you're wondering.. while the above statement is somewhat true, it's mainly to point out (mock) these sets and CPs should have no place in not-vet campaigns. But that's a topic for another day.

Tankqull · October 2015

Master_Kas wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

You can outheal the damage. Blessing of restoration + rapid regen is enough to outheal it with some CP into increased healing.

If you're facing multiple players? Well, ZOS don't want 1vX.

Once someone uses healdebuffs you need purge also. Three extra abilities addet to normal defense spells just to counter the set. Nice one.

What can nbs do to counter a pot ? Try to run away. You didn't read the rest of my posts?

That I hate it on my magicka builds. It is enough to outheal the damage from 1 shieldbreak spammer. Didn't say anything about how its balanced or not to have to slot them.

use a pot themselfes? counter a pot with another pot is perfectly fine for me.

Galalin · October 2015

CP5 wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

shields are sorcs main defence and that's a fact.

And the effectiveness of that "defense" is the issue. As we have discussed in numerous threads, the issue is that huge damage shields, that are spammable, combined with mobility and dps creates a vastly unbalanced PvP class/build.

Sorc's as a class only have the one shield, DK's have more damage shields (2). The huge shields you see are a combination of ward, annulment, and healing ward. Have you tried killing a decent magicka nb who has healing ward slotted? It all comes back to a player using healing ward then defending that ward until the heal goes off.

Are you seriously comparing DK shields to that of sorc shield stacking and claiming DK have more shields? you gonna sit here and say a DK can produce a higher shield than a sorc?

and if your not saying that then wth would you even make that comment?

DK SCRUB OUT

I was pointing out that dk's have double the number of shields as sorcs, to drive the point that shields aren't a rare thing in the game. People's first thought when talking about shields is generally sorcs, and I want people to 1. think about that, and 2. think about how many other shields are in the game. I only made comment to number of shields and didn't compare power.

then I would have to agree with you

DK SCRUB OUT

Mojomonkeyman · October 2015

Played both this patch, mag & stam sorc.

I feel mag sorc is totally beatable without shield breaker. I`m not saying I beat any mag sorc any time, but I think shields alone are pretty much in a good spot this patch. S&b with heal reduc + continuous pressure is doing a good job. Any heavy hitting wpn should do even better.

Mines make it difficult to keep the pressure up, tho. But that`s how it should be, right? Opportunities to outplay each other with the tools given to us.

I also tested shield breaker and thrilling fights become boring even vs decent mag sorcs. The very best manage still to give a good fight or win, but I feel I`m favored far too much. Stam CP allocation and therefore dmg output is far more effective than building a mag counterpart, I think that`s an equalizer to shields itself, even if unintended by the developer. At least for stam users, who will be the only ones using the shield breaker set.

So why do we need to dumb down gameplay with such a set agin?

Alucardo · October 2015

If anything, the Shield Breaker set should have been limited to proc on melee hits only. On my Nightblade built for little sustain and full weapon damage from range; camo hunter, poison injection, Silver leash (for those pesky vamps), the ability to cloak and re-position myself, and now the ability to chain some quick high damaging light and heavy attacks, the damage is just insane. People are getting put under so much pressure they instinctively recast their shields.
Shield Breaker is the best and worst thing that has ever happened.
It is a bit late to change it now. Too many people have invested a lot of hard-earned TV stones for this gear, and to just nerf or remove it would be extremely unfair. I don't plan on using this set for much longer - there are more practical ones out there, but it is extremely useful having one person in your group with it, when you're having trouble taking down those DKs and sorcs that just refuse to die. I don't care how many points you have in bastion.

Ryuho · October 2015

I am using sword/shield setup on my sorc.. Completly 0 shields, well healing ward + blessing of resto.. Heling ward only when blinkin away, but always follow uped by blessing of resto.. I perma block like a boss with dark conv and just laugh when som1 try to light attack me with shieldbreaker.. Taste 3.3k spell dmg - crystal/curse/dege + dawnbrkr - mage wrath if needed bye bye shieldbreaker user..

But ofc I understand OP, as destro/resto sorc u cant block much, so u need to use protection = shields.. And shield breaker *** ur gameplay badly ;/ But otherside why u dont slot blessing of resto/healing ward/emp ward for more heal..

Imo sorcs cant admit that 2.1 is not for 1 vs x godmode fights any more and thats the hugest problem with this set.. Try to adjust, u cant kill many players, well u can vs pve scrubs its esy, and always was but if they have dedicated healer u wont burst them down anyway... u need to use wise tactic so called tactical retreat

Sad times, but 1 vs x its really rare with zerglings running around.. and i agree that if u meet 2 shieldbreaker users u are just rekt by it.. Maybe change it to proc work only from 1 player.. That would help a bit.. But changing completly this set b4 changing shieldstacking system is pointless, there must be penalty for shieldstacking.. Its just *** lame..

I am not happy of shieldbreaker, but either i am not sad.. Shieldstacking was always annoying, some penalty of using that mechanism was needed, naturally shieldbreaker is not proper solution, but imo better that than nothing..

Ezareth · October 2015

Acts wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Acts wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

People can't counter this in a 1 v 1? And what are you doing while this player is spamming light attacks at you? Are you use degeneration? Power Surge? Tri-stats? Any of these things will counter 3-4 seconds of shield breaker spam while you're doing far more damage to the other player.

If you cant do more than 4K DPS to another player spamming you with light attacks then you're doing it wrong. Every time they cast or do anything they're not attack you. This is where dodge roll becomes more useful.

I'm just not seeing it.

In the 1v1 tests I have have ran, Which are 1v1 situations, Shield breaker will come out ontop.

What really makes this set OP is when a NB can Weave 8k Surprise attacks with the light attacks and throw in an Ulti.
That cannot be outhealed or Mitigated.
You cannot do anything against a Strong player who does this.

You cannot out pressure them when There Heals with Vigor and Rally can Out heal Most Sorc Builds DPS, while still being able to do massive damage and even CC with Fear.

So you are being Melee to death by a nightblade running this? Makes zero sense to me. I guess I just have to run into a good nightblade using it. It seems to me that people are just stuck on the whole max shield, no other defense meta who are having problems here. The suprise attack damage is hitting the shield, as is the ulti. The only thing hitting behind your shields is shield breaker which is 2K a second at best(since using a SA weave).

Mines heal you for close to 1K and there is 5 of them that NB should be eating while he's attacking you. Then if he is SAing your face he's going to be eating fragments or overload and if degen procs or I get a crit I'm at 100% health again. I'd love to see a NB out DPS my overload while trying to heal himself.

The Tests I ran was against people who have Really high Weapon damage, Pulling 8-9k Surpise attacks.
Doing that much damage while weaving Light attacks to proc Shield breaker will kill you really fast.

You Might think to say Streak to get away, Tried that
Ambush, Crit rush. Fixes that.

So use mines? With people who have about 400 CP and 100 into hardy, They only do about 3-4K. ( Based off my Build )
Rotate around the mines to keep Distance? Vigor and Rally actually out heal my Mines damage. Not really Phasing them.
The Root should help? Not with Elude or whatever the morph is that Give you immunity for a few secs.

These Tests I did are against Really good PVP'ers, Not any PVE'er.

The mines are for the heal and root (forcing a dodge roll or a GCD on shuffle if they aren't still immune) as much the damage (which heals behind your shield).

Any stamblade with only 400 CP and 100 into Hardy is a moron IMO but you should be able to counter that by having max Thaumaturge or at least 50 points into it countering 2/3rds of it.

As I said, the key to defeating shield breaker is heals that are offensive in nature. Crit surge and degeneration. Have you run either of these against these shield breaker la spammers?

The entire sorc meta is so dry and boring right now I love that this set trumps it. Every damn sorc out there is running practically the same build. Streak, Fragments, Velocious curse, Dawnbreaker....yawn. It was stale and boring in 1.6 and it's still stale in 2.1.

I've actually stopped running healing ward altogether and just rely on Hardened Ward, Ball of Lightning and Power Surge/Degeneration for heals with Tri-pots being my emergency heal.

I'm not saying that an amazing stamblade out there couldn't defeat me in a 1v1 using shield breaker with a build crafted to defeat me. He's not going to have an easy time of it though, and he's not going to win every time either. That seems fair to me.

Maulkin · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Personally, being a Sorc and all, I of course am not the biggest fan of the set (Cpt Obvious).

I've kinda learned to live with it. I don't really mind the melee damage (unless it's coming from a DK) but the ranged with the bow.

Speaking of the DK... a stamina S&B DK with Shield Breaker and good sustain both magicka and stamina wise is the hard counter to almost any Sorc build:
- Very strong physical damage with double anim cancel (la+skill+bash) and the only phys dmg ultimate (Take Flight)
- Shield Breaker bypassing shields
- Reverberating Bash cutting whatever pitiful heals you have
- Scales reflecting all your hard hitters.

Hell, I'm leveling one myself

Well they´re basically hardcountering every ranged build available while having the best stamina sustain in the game if redguard...
For dueling there is no better class to be found.

Which is why I'm leveling a Redguard Stamina DK.

Maulkin The Rastafarian is coming like a wrecking ball

*cough* fotm *cough*

I know, I know

I need a break from the Sorc man, I've been Sorcing for 90% of the time for the last 14 months. Went from rank 1 to rank 33 playing solo.

I brought up that manablade for a bit of variety. It's super strong, especially in IC, but pressing that Cloak button every 2" is not for me it seems. I know it's not much different on Sorc applying shields all the time, but it's a preference thing.

I prefer being in peoples faces than weaving in and out of view constantly. I prefer having them screaming "Focus that fecking Sorc!" than "Where is that fecking NB?". I think, being a Sorc yourself, you know what I mean.

Also, I'm keen to try my first stam build. I think it'll make me see some things from a different PoV too.

No reason to go DK when you can go NB and do everything better...without cloak.

I just don't understand how people are having issues with this set unless they're fighting 2 or more players with it or something.

People can't counter this in a 1 v 1? And what are you doing while this player is spamming light attacks at you? Are you use degeneration? Power Surge? Tri-stats? Any of these things will counter 3-4 seconds of shield breaker spam while you're doing far more damage to the other player.

If you cant do more than 4K DPS to another player spamming you with light attacks then you're doing it wrong. Every time they cast or do anything they're not attack you. This is where dodge roll becomes more useful.

I'm just not seeing it.

I beg to differ. I think a stam DK can do a lot of things better than a stamblade, outside of cloak.

Namely 42% extra healing through Igneous Shield + Burning Heart passive. Or better defense from projectiles through Scales. Or the best DoTs in the game through Unstable Flame and Burning Breath. Or the best physical damage ultimate with Take Flight. Or (built correctly and with enough CPs) the ability to create a build with decent sustain using food instead of drinks, thanks to Helping Hands passive.

Such build is hard to master but it thrives in a small group as the sustain is good enough and the burst damage with ~40k stamina is off the scales.

Regarding the 2nd part of the question, the shield breaker, the problem is two-fold. In 1vX it's certainly a big problem as you can imagine, I don't think I need to explain why. For 1v1s you set up differently if you know your opponent is running shield breaker.

Since someone with shield breaker is de facto a stam build, you replace Harness Magicka with either Rapid Regen or Dark Conversion and things become manageable. But again in 1v1s people won't just spam light attacks, they will apply constant DPS pressure of which light attacks and shield breaker is only part of. The advantage such build has is pretty big, but a Sorc in good hands can still prevail.

For normal PvP running triple shields is still more effective than running 2 shields and a HoT. Overall there are way more magicka builds than there stamina shield breaker bow builds. So harness magicka is more useful. Also the nature of open PvP is that you will get focused by more than 1 person at a time. So Rapid Regen might be very helpful against a single opponent with shield breaker but not so much useful against multiple opponents.

Edit: Power Surge is a must for magicka sorcs these days, if people are not running this I don't know what they are doing. That said there is an issue which is that mines don't proc power surge because the game thinks they are a DoTs. So the only heals you get from mines are through blood magic and that's kinda small in PvP. Fixing that would go a long way towards helping Sorcs in duels.

Ezareth · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Personally, being a Sorc and all, I of course am not the biggest fan of the set (Cpt Obvious).

I've kinda learned to live with it. I don't really mind the melee damage (unless it's coming from a DK) but the ranged with the bow.

Speaking of the DK... a stamina S&B DK with Shield Breaker and good sustain both magicka and stamina wise is the hard counter to almost any Sorc build:
- Very strong physical damage with double anim cancel (la+skill+bash) and the only phys dmg ultimate (Take Flight)
- Shield Breaker bypassing shields
- Reverberating Bash cutting whatever pitiful heals you have
- Scales reflecting all your hard hitters.

Hell, I'm leveling one myself

Well they´re basically hardcountering every ranged build available while having the best stamina sustain in the game if redguard...
For dueling there is no better class to be found.

Which is why I'm leveling a Redguard Stamina DK.

Maulkin The Rastafarian is coming like a wrecking ball

*cough* fotm *cough*

I know, I know

I need a break from the Sorc man, I've been Sorcing for 90% of the time for the last 14 months. Went from rank 1 to rank 33 playing solo.

I brought up that manablade for a bit of variety. It's super strong, especially in IC, but pressing that Cloak button every 2" is not for me it seems. I know it's not much different on Sorc applying shields all the time, but it's a preference thing.

I prefer being in peoples faces than weaving in and out of view constantly. I prefer having them screaming "Focus that fecking Sorc!" than "Where is that fecking NB?". I think, being a Sorc yourself, you know what I mean.

Also, I'm keen to try my first stam build. I think it'll make me see some things from a different PoV too.

No reason to go DK when you can go NB and do everything better...without cloak.

I just don't understand how people are having issues with this set unless they're fighting 2 or more players with it or something.

People can't counter this in a 1 v 1? And what are you doing while this player is spamming light attacks at you? Are you use degeneration? Power Surge? Tri-stats? Any of these things will counter 3-4 seconds of shield breaker spam while you're doing far more damage to the other player.

If you cant do more than 4K DPS to another player spamming you with light attacks then you're doing it wrong. Every time they cast or do anything they're not attack you. This is where dodge roll becomes more useful.

I'm just not seeing it.

I beg to differ. I think a stam DK can do a lot of things better than a stamblade, outside of cloak.

Namely 42% extra healing through Igneous Shield + Burning Heart passive. Or better defense from projectiles through Scales. Or the best DoTs in the game through Unstable Flame and Burning Breath. Or the best physical damage ultimate with Take Flight. Or (built correctly and with enough CPs) the ability to create a build with decent sustain using food instead of drinks, thanks to Helping Hands passive.

Such build is hard to master but it thrives in a small group as the sustain is good enough and the burst damage with ~40k stamina is off the scales.

Regarding the 2nd part of the question, the shield breaker, the problem is two-fold. In 1vX it's certainly a big problem as you can imagine, I don't think I need to explain why. For 1v1s you set up differently if you know your opponent is running shield breaker.

Since someone with shield breaker is de facto a stam build, you replace Harness Magicka with either Rapid Regen or Dark Conversion and things become manageable. But again in 1v1s people won't just spam light attacks, they will apply constant DPS pressure of which light attacks and shield breaker is only part of. The advantage such build has is pretty big, but a Sorc in good hands can still prevail.

For normal PvP running triple shields is still more effective than running 2 shields and a HoT. Overall there are way more magicka builds than there stamina shield breaker bow builds. So harness magicka is more useful. Also the nature of open PvP is that you will get focused by more than 1 person at a time. So Rapid Regen might be very helpful against a single opponent with shield breaker but not so much useful against multiple opponents.

Edit: Power Surge is a must for magicka sorcs these days, if people are not running this I don't know what they are doing. That said there is an issue which is that mines don't proc power surge because the game thinks they are a DoTs. So the only heals you get from mines are through blood magic and that's kinda small in PvP. Fixing that would go a long way towards helping Sorcs in duels.

The NB class has some of the best Passives in the game.10% Weapon Damage while stealth/invis, 2519 Crit Strike Rating(4% crit) for each assassination ability slotted, 10% bonus crit damage, Minor Savagery (1% Crit), shadow barrier (Mjaor Ward/Resolve for 4 seconds after casting a shadow ability), refreshing shadows 15% regen to all

Double-take: 20 Seconds of 20% Evasion, 4 Seconds of Major Expedition, 2519 Crit Strike rating

Piercing Mark: Makes killing nightblades who rely on cloak a walk in the part

Incapacitating Strike: Cheapest ult in the game, high damage provides major defile, 2519 Crit strike rating

Mass Hysteria: AoE Cc with no need to target that maims your targets and snares as well as puts your targets "offbalance" for exploiter champion passive

Dark Cloak: Invis, Removes dots(like Unstable Flame/Burning breath), grants shadow barrier

Suprise attack: Highest damage class stamina attack in game. Grants major fracture, Shadow Barrier, stuns and provides offbalance when used from cloak/stealth

Dots in general are very weak because they don't hit through shields if I recall, can be removed by cloak, and are reduced by both Hardy and Thick skinned. Take flight is great when it lands but I often dodge roll it which for an ult that costs that much makes it less effective against skilled player (I still remember Krotha whining in his twitch when I dodged his Take flight and he was swearing it bugged out on him because he evidently isn't away it is dodgeable)

I just don't find the DKs passives and abilities all that strong, I'm sure they can do great in dueling scenario because they're very single target oriented but they lack the mobility and have no escape, maim effect, and any decent source of defile(RIP Standard) without using reverberating bash.

Scales are nice but they are easy to counter, aren't spammable with a stam build and if you're using the dragon fire morph end up increasing the damage done to you when double-reflected.

I've come across some of the top Stam DKs in the game but I fear the good Stam NBs far more when I see them.

To each their own I guess. After thinking about it, I will say with my NB playstyle that doesn't use cloak may perform worse than a DK is many ways.

Maulkin · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

To each their own I guess. After thinking about it, I will say with my NB playstyle that doesn't use cloak may perform worse than a DK is many ways.

This is pretty much what it boils down to. Cloak trumps everything because it's an escape, a purge, a dodge and a damage boost (through passives) all rolled into one. And the escape part is insanely useful when playing in small groups.

If you decide to not use Cloak, as in your case, I think DK is definitely at least on a par.

What drives me nuts about cloak is how easy it is for even stam builds to spam it. I try to chase a stamblade, he cloaks, I try to pull him out of cloak with Streak and he cloaks each and every time I do so. He can cloak 7-8+ times on his magicka pool while after 4 streaks I have to check myself before I wreck myself. But I'm not gonna QQ about NBs here

Sharee · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

To each their own I guess. After thinking about it, I will say with my NB playstyle that doesn't use cloak may perform worse than a DK is many ways.

This is pretty much what it boils down to. Cloak trumps everything because it's an escape, a purge, a dodge and a damage boost (through passives) all rolled into one. And the escape part is insanely useful when playing in small groups.

If you decide to not use Cloak, as in your case, I think DK is definitely at least on a par.

What drives me nuts about cloak is how easy it is for even stam builds to spam it. I try to chase a stamblade, he cloaks, I try to pull him out of cloak with Streak and he cloaks each and every time I do so. He can cloak 7-8+ times on his magicka pool while after 4 streaks I have to check myself before I wreck myself. But I'm not gonna QQ about NBs here

That's not a stamina NB. I can cloak 3 times if i spam it one after another(like you have to when being constantly uncovered as soon as you cloak), then one more time after a small delay(as my regen catches up). If i was using food, increase that by one. 7-8+ times is a magicka NB.

(11405 max magicka, 3654 cloak cost)

ToRelax · October 2015

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

To each their own I guess. After thinking about it, I will say with my NB playstyle that doesn't use cloak may perform worse than a DK is many ways.

This is pretty much what it boils down to. Cloak trumps everything because it's an escape, a purge, a dodge and a damage boost (through passives) all rolled into one. And the escape part is insanely useful when playing in small groups.

If you decide to not use Cloak, as in your case, I think DK is definitely at least on a par.

What drives me nuts about cloak is how easy it is for even stam builds to spam it. I try to chase a stamblade, he cloaks, I try to pull him out of cloak with Streak and he cloaks each and every time I do so. He can cloak 7-8+ times on his magicka pool while after 4 streaks I have to check myself before I wreck myself. But I'm not gonna QQ about NBs here

That's not a stamina NB. I can cloak 3 times if i spam it one after another(like you have to when being constantly uncovered as soon as you cloak), then one more time after a small delay(as my regen catches up). If i was using food, increase that by one. 7-8+ times is a magicka NB.

Magicka NBs is when you regen magicka while perma cloaking.

Sharee · October 2015

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

To each their own I guess. After thinking about it, I will say with my NB playstyle that doesn't use cloak may perform worse than a DK is many ways.

This is pretty much what it boils down to. Cloak trumps everything because it's an escape, a purge, a dodge and a damage boost (through passives) all rolled into one. And the escape part is insanely useful when playing in small groups.

If you decide to not use Cloak, as in your case, I think DK is definitely at least on a par.

What drives me nuts about cloak is how easy it is for even stam builds to spam it. I try to chase a stamblade, he cloaks, I try to pull him out of cloak with Streak and he cloaks each and every time I do so. He can cloak 7-8+ times on his magicka pool while after 4 streaks I have to check myself before I wreck myself. But I'm not gonna QQ about NBs here

That's not a stamina NB. I can cloak 3 times if i spam it one after another(like you have to when being constantly uncovered as soon as you cloak), then one more time after a small delay(as my regen catches up). If i was using food, increase that by one. 7-8+ times is a magicka NB.

Magicka NBs is when you regen magicka while perma cloaking.

I'm saying if a NB can spam cloak 7-8+ times in a row, it is a magicka NB.

I did not say a magicka NB can't cloak more than that.

Ezareth · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

To each their own I guess. After thinking about it, I will say with my NB playstyle that doesn't use cloak may perform worse than a DK is many ways.

This is pretty much what it boils down to. Cloak trumps everything because it's an escape, a purge, a dodge and a damage boost (through passives) all rolled into one. And the escape part is insanely useful when playing in small groups.

If you decide to not use Cloak, as in your case, I think DK is definitely at least on a par.

What drives me nuts about cloak is how easy it is for even stam builds to spam it. I try to chase a stamblade, he cloaks, I try to pull him out of cloak with Streak and he cloaks each and every time I do so. He can cloak 7-8+ times on his magicka pool while after 4 streaks I have to check myself before I wreck myself. But I'm not gonna QQ about NBs here

Just do what I do, pop an unstoppable detect pot, fire up the overload cannon and melt his face. Not a damn thing he can do unless he's running sword and board and he'll run out of dodge rolls long before you run out of detection ( =

I still feel Cloak is a cruch and when you take that away from many "good" nightblades they don't react to the situation with the skill they would had they not been relying on it in the first place.

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

To each their own I guess. After thinking about it, I will say with my NB playstyle that doesn't use cloak may perform worse than a DK is many ways.

This is pretty much what it boils down to. Cloak trumps everything because it's an escape, a purge, a dodge and a damage boost (through passives) all rolled into one. And the escape part is insanely useful when playing in small groups.

If you decide to not use Cloak, as in your case, I think DK is definitely at least on a par.

What drives me nuts about cloak is how easy it is for even stam builds to spam it. I try to chase a stamblade, he cloaks, I try to pull him out of cloak with Streak and he cloaks each and every time I do so. He can cloak 7-8+ times on his magicka pool while after 4 streaks I have to check myself before I wreck myself. But I'm not gonna QQ about NBs here

That's not a stamina NB. I can cloak 3 times if i spam it one after another(like you have to when being constantly uncovered as soon as you cloak), then one more time after a small delay(as my regen catches up). If i was using food, increase that by one. 7-8+ times is a magicka NB.

Magicka NBs is when you regen magicka while perma cloaking.

I'm saying if a NB can spam cloak 7-8+ times in a row, it is a magicka NB.

I did not say a magicka NB can't cloak more than that.

I slotted cloak last night so I could solo some Vet16 dungeons for the (*shudder*) undaunted dailies. I was able to cloak at least 8 times in a row to go through packs. Since I'm not a vampire my cloak speed is super slow. With a stamina player in PvP they can easily add another two cloaks to their rotation by popping a detect potion.

Let's not kid ourselves here. We all know and fight stamblades all the time who cloak enough that whether or not they are "Permacloaking" is debatable. The only thing a Stamblade can't do is stay in cloak stealth permanently like a magicka NB. Normally you're going to cloak once, Surprise attack, wait for the counter attack and cloak away before it lands so you're only casting cloak once every 4-5 seconds.

Soulac · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

To each their own I guess. After thinking about it, I will say with my NB playstyle that doesn't use cloak may perform worse than a DK is many ways.

This is pretty much what it boils down to. Cloak trumps everything because it's an escape, a purge, a dodge and a damage boost (through passives) all rolled into one. And the escape part is insanely useful when playing in small groups.

If you decide to not use Cloak, as in your case, I think DK is definitely at least on a par.

What drives me nuts about cloak is how easy it is for even stam builds to spam it. I try to chase a stamblade, he cloaks, I try to pull him out of cloak with Streak and he cloaks each and every time I do so. He can cloak 7-8+ times on his magicka pool while after 4 streaks I have to check myself before I wreck myself. But I'm not gonna QQ about NBs here

Just do what I do, pop an unstoppable detect pot, fire up the overload cannon and melt his face. Not a damn thing he can do unless he's running sword and board and he'll run out of dodge rolls long before you run out of detection ( =

I still feel Cloak is a cruch and when you take that away from many "good" nightblades they don't react to the situation with the skill they would had they not been relying on it in the first place.

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

To each their own I guess. After thinking about it, I will say with my NB playstyle that doesn't use cloak may perform worse than a DK is many ways.

This is pretty much what it boils down to. Cloak trumps everything because it's an escape, a purge, a dodge and a damage boost (through passives) all rolled into one. And the escape part is insanely useful when playing in small groups.

If you decide to not use Cloak, as in your case, I think DK is definitely at least on a par.

What drives me nuts about cloak is how easy it is for even stam builds to spam it. I try to chase a stamblade, he cloaks, I try to pull him out of cloak with Streak and he cloaks each and every time I do so. He can cloak 7-8+ times on his magicka pool while after 4 streaks I have to check myself before I wreck myself. But I'm not gonna QQ about NBs here

That's not a stamina NB. I can cloak 3 times if i spam it one after another(like you have to when being constantly uncovered as soon as you cloak), then one more time after a small delay(as my regen catches up). If i was using food, increase that by one. 7-8+ times is a magicka NB.

Magicka NBs is when you regen magicka while perma cloaking.

I'm saying if a NB can spam cloak 7-8+ times in a row, it is a magicka NB.

I did not say a magicka NB can't cloak more than that.

I slotted cloak last night so I could solo some Vet16 dungeons for the (*shudder*) undaunted dailies. I was able to cloak at least 8 times in a row to go through packs. Since I'm not a vampire my cloak speed is super slow. With a stamina player in PvP they can easily add another two cloaks to their rotation by popping a detect potion.

Let's not kid ourselves here. We all know and fight stamblades all the time who cloak enough that whether or not they are "Permacloaking" is debatable. The only thing a Stamblade can't do is stay in cloak stealth permanently like a magicka NB. Normally you're going to cloak once, Surprise attack, wait for the counter attack and cloak away before it lands so you're only casting cloak once every 4-5 seconds.

Cloak is normal run speed except you start in sneak or use concealed weapon.

Sharee · October 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

To each their own I guess. After thinking about it, I will say with my NB playstyle that doesn't use cloak may perform worse than a DK is many ways.

This is pretty much what it boils down to. Cloak trumps everything because it's an escape, a purge, a dodge and a damage boost (through passives) all rolled into one. And the escape part is insanely useful when playing in small groups.

If you decide to not use Cloak, as in your case, I think DK is definitely at least on a par.

What drives me nuts about cloak is how easy it is for even stam builds to spam it. I try to chase a stamblade, he cloaks, I try to pull him out of cloak with Streak and he cloaks each and every time I do so. He can cloak 7-8+ times on his magicka pool while after 4 streaks I have to check myself before I wreck myself. But I'm not gonna QQ about NBs here

Just do what I do, pop an unstoppable detect pot, fire up the overload cannon and melt his face. Not a damn thing he can do unless he's running sword and board and he'll run out of dodge rolls long before you run out of detection ( =

I still feel Cloak is a cruch and when you take that away from many "good" nightblades they don't react to the situation with the skill they would had they not been relying on it in the first place.

Sharee wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

To each their own I guess. After thinking about it, I will say with my NB playstyle that doesn't use cloak may perform worse than a DK is many ways.

This is pretty much what it boils down to. Cloak trumps everything because it's an escape, a purge, a dodge and a damage boost (through passives) all rolled into one. And the escape part is insanely useful when playing in small groups.

If you decide to not use Cloak, as in your case, I think DK is definitely at least on a par.

What drives me nuts about cloak is how easy it is for even stam builds to spam it. I try to chase a stamblade, he cloaks, I try to pull him out of cloak with Streak and he cloaks each and every time I do so. He can cloak 7-8+ times on his magicka pool while after 4 streaks I have to check myself before I wreck myself. But I'm not gonna QQ about NBs here

That's not a stamina NB. I can cloak 3 times if i spam it one after another(like you have to when being constantly uncovered as soon as you cloak), then one more time after a small delay(as my regen catches up). If i was using food, increase that by one. 7-8+ times is a magicka NB.

Magicka NBs is when you regen magicka while perma cloaking.

I'm saying if a NB can spam cloak 7-8+ times in a row, it is a magicka NB.

I did not say a magicka NB can't cloak more than that.

I slotted cloak last night so I could solo some Vet16 dungeons for the (*shudder*) undaunted dailies. I was able to cloak at least 8 times in a row to go through packs. Since I'm not a vampire my cloak speed is super slow. With a stamina player in PvP they can easily add another two cloaks to their rotation by popping a detect potion.

Let's not kid ourselves here. We all know and fight stamblades all the time who cloak enough that whether or not they are "Permacloaking" is debatable. The only thing a Stamblade can't do is stay in cloak stealth permanently like a magicka NB. Normally you're going to cloak once, Surprise attack, wait for the counter attack and cloak away before it lands so you're only casting cloak once every 4-5 seconds.

He was talking about a NB recloaking as soon as he gets uncovered by streak tho. That's different from 'cloaking in a row to get through packs' where you can stay cloaked for the full duration before casting another cloak, and thus giving your magicka time to regen.

When you are getting constantly uncloaked by streak, and thus have to spam cloak as fast as you can to reapply it, you won't be able to do it 7-8+ times in a row as a stamina NB, let's not kid ourselves here.

LegendaryChef · October 2015

So here's another reason why shieldbreaker should GTF. Was pvping last night on azuras with Lana (stam NB that doesn't wear shieldbreaker btw) and we actually found a nice average sized group of 5 players (none high AW ranked) and we had lured them up the hill between chalman and arrius. Fight was going really well and we had killed 2 of them when I spotted 2 more players joining in and what seemed like a fight we had completely under control turned into a complete mess because of this single unskillful little moron that was wearing this set. He stood at the back of the fight spamming me with light attacks and as soon as I seen my health going out the window I instantly took cover behind the rocks and healed away from the unbelievably skilful light attack spammer. At this point i told Lana to focus the NB with me and we took him down and continued the fight, things were still looking pretty decent at this point until I made the mistake of not watching the corpse and kags hope res swooped in to save the day and before I knew it I was dead and a fight that was completely winnable turned to poop because of 1 highly skilled player that had no resources and just stood and spamming his left mouse button on me.

I can safely say that it requires more skill to wipe my own bottom than to use this set. Fact.

If you need shieldbreaker to kill a sorc then you either seriously suck or your extremely lazy to have to use a set which is so stupidly designed and not thought out properly in order to kill kill a half decent player. I have fought many strong players in duels, won some and lost some, yet they didn't need to use the set to get through my shields so why should people have to use it now?

It's not balance or adapting, it's an easy way out of putting effort in and actually improving.

_Chaos · October 2015

LegendaryChef wrote: »

So here's another reason why shieldbreaker should GTF. Was pvping last night on azuras with Lana (stam NB that doesn't wear shieldbreaker btw) and we actually found a nice average sized group of 5 players (none high AW ranked) and we had lured them up the hill between chalman and arrius. Fight was going really well and we had killed 2 of them when I spotted 2 more players joining in and what seemed like a fight we had completely under control turned into a complete mess because of this single unskillful little moron that was wearing this set. He stood at the back of the fight spamming me with light attacks and as soon as I seen my health going out the window I instantly took cover behind the rocks and healed away from the unbelievably skilful light attack spammer. At this point i told Lana to focus the NB with me and we took him down and continued the fight, things were still looking pretty decent at this point until I made the mistake of not watching the corpse and kags hope res swooped in to save the day and before I knew it I was dead and a fight that was completely winnable turned to poop because of 1 highly skilled player that had no resources and just stood and spamming his left mouse button on me.

I can safely say that it requires more skill to wipe my own bottom than to use this set. Fact.

If you need shieldbreaker to kill a sorc then you either seriously suck or your extremely lazy to have to use a set which is so stupidly designed and not thought out properly in order to kill kill a half decent player. I have fought many strong players in duels, won some and lost some, yet they didn't need to use the set to get through my shields so why should people have to use it now?

It's not balance or adapting, it's an easy way out of putting effort in and actually improving.

18k shield vs magicka DK? Nope!

PS.. sounds like a L2P issue, why not camp the shield-breaker body?

LegendaryChef · October 2015

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

So here's another reason why shieldbreaker should GTF. Was pvping last night on azuras with Lana (stam NB that doesn't wear shieldbreaker btw) and we actually found a nice average sized group of 5 players (none high AW ranked) and we had lured them up the hill between chalman and arrius. Fight was going really well and we had killed 2 of them when I spotted 2 more players joining in and what seemed like a fight we had completely under control turned into a complete mess because of this single unskillful little moron that was wearing this set. He stood at the back of the fight spamming me with light attacks and as soon as I seen my health going out the window I instantly took cover behind the rocks and healed away from the unbelievably skilful light attack spammer. At this point i told Lana to focus the NB with me and we took him down and continued the fight, things were still looking pretty decent at this point until I made the mistake of not watching the corpse and kags hope res swooped in to save the day and before I knew it I was dead and a fight that was completely winnable turned to poop because of 1 highly skilled player that had no resources and just stood and spamming his left mouse button on me.

I can safely say that it requires more skill to wipe my own bottom than to use this set. Fact.

If you need shieldbreaker to kill a sorc then you either seriously suck or your extremely lazy to have to use a set which is so stupidly designed and not thought out properly in order to kill kill a half decent player. I have fought many strong players in duels, won some and lost some, yet they didn't need to use the set to get through my shields so why should people have to use it now?

It's not balance or adapting, it's an easy way out of putting effort in and actually improving.

18k shield vs magicka DK? Nope!

PS.. sounds like a L2P issue, why not camp the shield-breaker body?

As I said, I made a mistake. We were still being attacked and I slipped up

But thanks for completely missing the point and jumping straight on the L2P band wagon

_Chaos · October 2015

LegendaryChef wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

So here's another reason why shieldbreaker should GTF. Was pvping last night on azuras with Lana (stam NB that doesn't wear shieldbreaker btw) and we actually found a nice average sized group of 5 players (none high AW ranked) and we had lured them up the hill between chalman and arrius. Fight was going really well and we had killed 2 of them when I spotted 2 more players joining in and what seemed like a fight we had completely under control turned into a complete mess because of this single unskillful little moron that was wearing this set. He stood at the back of the fight spamming me with light attacks and as soon as I seen my health going out the window I instantly took cover behind the rocks and healed away from the unbelievably skilful light attack spammer. At this point i told Lana to focus the NB with me and we took him down and continued the fight, things were still looking pretty decent at this point until I made the mistake of not watching the corpse and kags hope res swooped in to save the day and before I knew it I was dead and a fight that was completely winnable turned to poop because of 1 highly skilled player that had no resources and just stood and spamming his left mouse button on me.

I can safely say that it requires more skill to wipe my own bottom than to use this set. Fact.

If you need shieldbreaker to kill a sorc then you either seriously suck or your extremely lazy to have to use a set which is so stupidly designed and not thought out properly in order to kill kill a half decent player. I have fought many strong players in duels, won some and lost some, yet they didn't need to use the set to get through my shields so why should people have to use it now?

It's not balance or adapting, it's an easy way out of putting effort in and actually improving.

18k shield vs magicka DK? Nope!

PS.. sounds like a L2P issue, why not camp the shield-breaker body?

As I said, I made a mistake. We were still being attacked and I slipped up
But thanks for completely missing the point and jumping straight on the L2P band wagon

Don't cha know we're all supposed to be perfect players that make zero mistakes? (L2P comment was sarcasm, you're a great player. I'm sorry

)

Buuut... "If you need shieldbreaker to kill a sorc then you either seriously suck or your extremely lazy"
Have you played a magicka DK lately? We have zero burst to take out that kind of defense.

Ezareth · October 2015

Soulac wrote: »

Cloak is normal run speed except you start in sneak or use concealed weapon.

Ohh you can sprint while cloaked?! lol. Guess my green is showing on my NB ( =

LegendaryChef · October 2015

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

LegendaryChef wrote: »

So here's another reason why shieldbreaker should GTF. Was pvping last night on azuras with Lana (stam NB that doesn't wear shieldbreaker btw) and we actually found a nice average sized group of 5 players (none high AW ranked) and we had lured them up the hill between chalman and arrius. Fight was going really well and we had killed 2 of them when I spotted 2 more players joining in and what seemed like a fight we had completely under control turned into a complete mess because of this single unskillful little moron that was wearing this set. He stood at the back of the fight spamming me with light attacks and as soon as I seen my health going out the window I instantly took cover behind the rocks and healed away from the unbelievably skilful light attack spammer. At this point i told Lana to focus the NB with me and we took him down and continued the fight, things were still looking pretty decent at this point until I made the mistake of not watching the corpse and kags hope res swooped in to save the day and before I knew it I was dead and a fight that was completely winnable turned to poop because of 1 highly skilled player that had no resources and just stood and spamming his left mouse button on me.

I can safely say that it requires more skill to wipe my own bottom than to use this set. Fact.

If you need shieldbreaker to kill a sorc then you either seriously suck or your extremely lazy to have to use a set which is so stupidly designed and not thought out properly in order to kill kill a half decent player. I have fought many strong players in duels, won some and lost some, yet they didn't need to use the set to get through my shields so why should people have to use it now?

It's not balance or adapting, it's an easy way out of putting effort in and actually improving.

18k shield vs magicka DK? Nope!

PS.. sounds like a L2P issue, why not camp the shield-breaker body?

As I said, I made a mistake. We were still being attacked and I slipped up
But thanks for completely missing the point and jumping straight on the L2P band wagon

Don't cha know we're all supposed to be perfect players that make zero mistakes? (L2P comment was sarcasm, you're a great player. I'm sorry )

Buuut... "If you need shieldbreaker to kill a sorc then you either seriously suck or your extremely lazy"
Have you played a magicka DK lately? We have zero burst to take out that kind of defense.

Sorry I just get a bit touchy when I see the phrase L2P, not sure why it just gives me a weird shiver

I haven't played a dk for a long time and was actually thinking about levelling one again soon, it seems fun. I've encountered a number of magicka dks and actually had some really nice 1v1s. I won't show myself as an idiot here by saying magicka dks are fine because I do believe that they could use a few tweaks here and there but I guess Zos went a bit OTT after the Dk masterrace in 1.5 and will get round to fixing it in 2018.

I still stand by my statement though, even if I was handed a v16 stam NB with the set fully gold and asked to fight a sorc then I would take it off, spit on it and then destroy it because I wouldn't even feel like I had accomplished a single thing if I won.

Mr_Nobody · October 2015

Derra wrote: »

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Master_Kas wrote: »

You can outheal the damage. Blessing of restoration + rapid regen is enough to outheal it with some CP into increased healing.

If you're facing multiple players? Well, ZOS don't want 1vX.

Once someone uses healdebuffs you need purge also. Three extra abilities addet to normal defense spells just to counter the set. Nice one.

Thats what all magicka templars use to PvP since we were not given the pleasure to use a good class based damage shield. Considering the amount of times i spam the BoL button, i would take equivalent strength blazing shield of hardened ward. Even if it was with 6 second duration. The idea of shields negating execute damage and crits and denying damage before its done is worth alot. Sorcs just want it the easy way.

Are you kidding me?

A templar needs their classpurge and bol.

A sorc needs restoheal1 + restoheal2 + alliancepurge + classshield.

All to fight against a freaking setbonus. But thanks for smearing your ignorance into everyones face who bothers to read this topic.

And yet i cant put up a 20k shield and deal damage while staying *safe* for the next 20 seconds after casting 2/3 spells. You clearly have never played a templar, or atleast have been a good one.

I have played a sorc and rekt alot of faces and SB isnt the issue, and im super bad on a sorc. Not like any of the REALLY good sorcs are crying about a set here either. A bunch of mediocre *organized* zergers or duel-only shieldstackers crying over and over.

Get over it, clearly L2P issue.