The Decline and Fall of the Magicka DK

Armitas · October 2015

Alcast wrote: »

I just got gear together to test Magicka DK and its totally fine, only thing that kinda sucks is the mobility (SAME AS TEMPLARS).

I hate to say it but it is a l2p issue

What did you test?

Galalin · October 2015

Yeah @Alcast thats a very vague statement can you elaborate a bit on that for us? Im not saying you didn't find something that none of us have but i am a bit sceptical.

DK SCRUB OUT

Etaniel · October 2015

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

@Ishammael l I said I'd be making a video to show DK's aren't as dead as people say they are, here it is :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzELYnlbyjw

Just wanted to point out the fact that 2 experienced PvPers killing PvE noobs in the sewers hardly proves they are ok. Im betting that you 2 could play any other classes and have killed them a lot more efficiently.

DK SCRUB OUT

I said that for shock value haha
Although I could never have pulled that off in 1.6....

Galalin · October 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

@Ishammael l I said I'd be making a video to show DK's aren't as dead as people say they are, here it is :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzELYnlbyjw

Just wanted to point out the fact that 2 experienced PvPers killing PvE noobs in the sewers hardly proves they are ok. Im betting that you 2 could play any other classes and have killed them a lot more efficiently.

DK SCRUB OUT

I said that for shock value haha
Although I could never have pulled that off in 1.6....

Fair enough

none the less nice vid but i still feel magicka DK's need much love

DK SCRUB OUT

Ernest145 · October 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

@Ishammael l I said I'd be making a video to show DK's aren't as dead as people say they are, here it is :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzELYnlbyjw

Nice video makes me happy seeing players stick with a certain build/playstyle and make it work and not come on the forums to QQ.

Alcast wrote: »

I just got gear together to test Magicka DK and its totally fine, only thing that kinda sucks is the mobility (SAME AS TEMPLARS).

I hate to say it but it is a l2p issue

I believe in you but you might have to make a cool video for all the non believers

Jules · October 2015

Alcast wrote: »

I just got gear together to test Magicka DK and its totally fine, only thing that kinda sucks is the mobility (SAME AS TEMPLARS).

I hate to say it but it is a l2p issue

Put your money where your mouth is. Let's see a pvp vid proving how totally fine magicka DK is.

DUTCH_REAPER · October 2015

Hahaha 1.7 NOBODY

WRX · October 2015

I have played with or against most players arguing in this thread.

Can a good magicka DK still kill a bunch of light attacking bads? Sure.

But put two equally skilled players into a fight with each other and magicka DK will get lose the vast majority of the fights against any other of the 7 combos. It either needs more burst, mobility, or diversity.

Galalin · October 2015

WRX wrote: »

I have played with or against most players arguing in this thread.

Can a good magicka DK still kill a bunch of light attacking bads? Sure.

But put two equally skilled players into a fight with each other and magicka DK will get lose the vast majority of the fights against any other of the 7 combos. It either needs more burst, mobility, or diversity.

Exactly this ^^^

DK SCRUB OUT

Joy_Division · October 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

@Ishammael l I said I'd be making a video to show DK's aren't as dead as people say they are, here it is :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzELYnlbyjw

I hate it when people do this, but I have to. This takes nothing away from the skill demonstrated by you two in the video, but that's what this video is, a demonstration of just how good you two are compared to those AD is the clannfear room, all of whom were low Alliance war ranks.

I am also guessing that you have those prismatic enchants seeing that you have 27K health, 37K magicka, 17K stamina. I think a DK has to go that route but with ZoS's rediculous gear grind, I'm not going to blow a 50K enchant just to test something on my DK to see if it might work...when I know if I put that on my sorcerer or templar, it will work...better.

I wish the two of you entered in the legends 2v2 tournament. Had I seen 2 magicka Dks go against players I also know are good with classes that I think are better, that would have been much more convincing.

Alcast · October 2015

Galalin wrote: »

Yeah @Alcast thats a very vague statement can you elaborate a bit on that for us? Im not saying you didn't find something that none of us have but i am a bit sceptical.

DK SCRUB OUT

I just started testing, will have to do some more testing to get things right, I loose quite a lot due to not being able to remember where I put my skills on the bars LOL.
WIll upload videos once I get some footage together.
However, people will surely QQ that this playstyle sucks....once again xD

Using Destro/Resto
5x Krag
3x Will
1x Kena
2x Torug
Still all purple gear for now.

Only thing that bothers me (same with templars) you have no way to escape or at least port away like other classes to create some space between you and your enemies

And by escape I do not mean run away like a chicken, but for example Sorcs can "sustain" their Stamina a lot better due to Streak, DK/Temps have to sit there and cant do shizzle

And last but not least, if you wanna play DK
DD= Destro/resto, DW/resto
Tanky as f: Sword N board (not a lot of dmg outpuut then but basically invincibru)
DD+Tanky= not in 2.1 > I think this is what ppl want, but this is no more, that was way too OP anyway.

And Etaniels Video shows also a good use of Magicka DK...ofc those were PvE pugs in IC but w/e...seemed to work quite well

Vanzen · October 2015

Boost GDB by 30% and everything will be perfect. (on top of igneous ofc)

Ryuho · October 2015

Vanzen wrote: »

Boost GDB by 30% and everything will be perfect. (on top of igneous ofc)

Yep exactly, bring GDB back to recover 30% missing HP.. It won't solve DKs problems completly, but having vialble self heal again would help much..

Galalin · October 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Yeah @Alcast thats a very vague statement can you elaborate a bit on that for us? Im not saying you didn't find something that none of us have but i am a bit sceptical.

DK SCRUB OUT

I just started testing, will have to do some more testing to get things right, I loose quite a lot due to not being able to remember where I put my skills on the bars LOL.
WIll upload videos once I get some footage together.
However, people will surely QQ that this playstyle sucks....once again xD

Using Destro/Resto
5x Krag
3x Will
1x Kena
2x Torug
Still all purple gear for now.

Only thing that bothers me (same with templars) you have no way to escape or at least port away like other classes to create some space between you and your enemies

And by escape I do not mean run away like a chicken, but for example Sorcs can "sustain" their Stamina a lot better due to Streak, DK/Temps have to sit there and cant do shizzle

And last but not least, if you wanna play DK
DD= Destro/resto, DW/resto
Tanky as f: Sword N board (not a lot of dmg outpuut then but basically invincibru)
DD+Tanky= not in 2.1 > I think this is what ppl want, but this is no more, that was way too OP anyway.

And Etaniels Video shows also a good use of Magicka DK...ofc those were PvE pugs in IC but w/e...seemed to work quite well

I all honesty I hope you do get it sorted out and make the build work.... cause I sure as *** would like it if I did not have to wait until next year.

DK SCRUB OUT

Tankqull · October 2015

Nijjion wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Maybe in the end you are right, maybe its utterly garbage, but you cannot excpect to do both anymore be tanky + deal OP dmg....choose one of both or go forum and QQ.

Then we need a get away like sorc or NB... as DKs had tankiness with damage to combat no get away.

well that can be easily done if they chose to balance the DK properly.
so you want mobility, just create a DKísh copy of bolt escape - switch one of the reflective scale moprhs into it, by rotating the wings animation 90° call it lets say "Flight time" by using it the DK hovers fast forward like bolt escape over 15m with the same spell animation time and make respect hight differences like BE. that way DK´s would have to give up tankability(projectile immunity) for movement and escapability (i would guess it´ll be rarly skilled though^^)

hammayolettuce · October 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Yeah @Alcast thats a very vague statement can you elaborate a bit on that for us? Im not saying you didn't find something that none of us have but i am a bit sceptical.

DK SCRUB OUT

I just started testing, will have to do some more testing to get things right, I loose quite a lot due to not being able to remember where I put my skills on the bars LOL.
WIll upload videos once I get some footage together.
However, people will surely QQ that this playstyle sucks....once again xD

Using Destro/Resto
5x Krag
3x Will
1x Kena
2x Torug
Still all purple gear for now.

Only thing that bothers me (same with templars) you have no way to escape or at least port away like other classes to create some space between you and your enemies

And by escape I do not mean run away like a chicken, but for example Sorcs can "sustain" their Stamina a lot better due to Streak, DK/Temps have to sit there and cant do shizzle

And last but not least, if you wanna play DK
DD= Destro/resto, DW/resto
Tanky as f: Sword N board (not a lot of dmg outpuut then but basically invincibru)
DD+Tanky= not in 2.1 > I think this is what ppl want, but this is no more, that was way too OP anyway.

And Etaniels Video shows also a good use of Magicka DK...ofc those were PvE pugs in IC but w/e...seemed to work quite well

I'm pretty sure more than half of us here have tried that setup already. It isn't going to work very well for you solo. Sure you'll kill a bad here and there like anyone else but you still aren't killing 2 people anywhere near your skill level like you could do on any other class.

Armitas · October 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Yeah @Alcast thats a very vague statement can you elaborate a bit on that for us? Im not saying you didn't find something that none of us have but i am a bit sceptical.

DK SCRUB OUT

I just started testing, will have to do some more testing to get things right, I loose quite a lot due to not being able to remember where I put my skills on the bars LOL.

That is quite a thing to say after just posting "I tested the DK, it's totally fine, L2P. " Needless to say we were all expecting something far more substantial than this. We all recognize that you are a good pvper and not a scrub, but that doesn't mean you can make flippant and glib comments like that. We all own the DK and we need to make sure we are doing what is best for it. That kind of premise and conclusion making is not what is best for the DK or anything for that matter.

Alcast · October 2015

Armitas wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Yeah @Alcast thats a very vague statement can you elaborate a bit on that for us? Im not saying you didn't find something that none of us have but i am a bit sceptical.

DK SCRUB OUT

I just started testing, will have to do some more testing to get things right, I loose quite a lot due to not being able to remember where I put my skills on the bars LOL.

That is quite a thing to say after just posting "I tested the DK, it's totally fine, L2P. " Needless to say we were all expecting something far more substantial than this. We all recognize that you are a good pvper and not a scrub, but that doesn't mean you can make flippant and glib comments like that. We all own the DK and we need to make sure we are doing what is best for it. That kind of premise and conclusion making is not what is best for the DK or anything for that matter.

I know the comments i bring in can be crappy, but every person can theorycraft on their own, if you are just going to pretend same build will work next patch too, then ESO is the wrong game.
I am working on it Magicka DK atm...but have to test things first before I can say it works good.

I was also pissed off at start bc i had to redo stamplar again because ZOS changed so much. And the dmg mitigation hurts templars lot more than DKs for example. And Sorcs/Nbs dont five a f...bc they have burst skills.

OtarTheMad · October 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

@Ishammael l I said I'd be making a video to show DK's aren't as dead as people say they are, here it is :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzELYnlbyjw

Nice video, love the use of 1h and shield as a gap closer, just like the old days.

Anyway, the build I was going to test was something outside of the box, which I will share since... well why not. I was going to use 5pc. Julianos set (I am testing on the PTS, this is a new set in Orsinium... it is magicka version of Hundings) I also wanted to do 5pc of Armor of the Code (also new but not sure if it drops just armor or if it includes jewelry) for now though I am going to do 3pc Torug's Pact with 3pc Willpower. I was also contemplating using the other new set called: Winterborn and getting the 5pc bonus by using an Ice Staff.

Weapon are destro/resto and it's a build that is heavily reliant on heavy and light attacks so you'd have to put a good amount of CP into Staff Expert. Also have to put a good amount into Blessed to help with heals and also as much as you can into Elemental Expert. As for the other trees, probably typical except the Thief where I will put a good amount into Tumbling and even Evasive (might have got the name wrong)

I got the set info from game but this is a link: elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Sets

Bars: (rough draft)
Destro:
Molten Armanents
Molten Whip
Burning Talons
Structured Entropy
Reflect
Ultimate- Dragon Leap

Resto:
Razor Armor
Eruption
Healing Ward
Fossilize
Open spot (probably inevitable det.)
Ultimate- Barrier

Just testing this, haven't done much at all with it yet but I see some names in here that have played DK longer and are better at it so that's why I shared.

RadioheadSh0t · October 2015

I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.

They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).

Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.

NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.

That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.

They do need to revert the most form change, though.

RadioheadSh0t · October 2015

If I had to venture to guess, DB or TG will have some sort of escape in their lines available to all classes.

Rylana · October 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Yeah @Alcast thats a very vague statement can you elaborate a bit on that for us? Im not saying you didn't find something that none of us have but i am a bit sceptical.

DK SCRUB OUT

I just started testing, will have to do some more testing to get things right, I loose quite a lot due to not being able to remember where I put my skills on the bars LOL.
WIll upload videos once I get some footage together.
However, people will surely QQ that this playstyle sucks....once again xD

Using Destro/Resto
5x Krag
3x Will
1x Kena
2x Torug
Still all purple gear for now.

Only thing that bothers me (same with templars) you have no way to escape or at least port away like other classes to create some space between you and your enemies

And by escape I do not mean run away like a chicken, but for example Sorcs can "sustain" their Stamina a lot better due to Streak, DK/Temps have to sit there and cant do shizzle

And last but not least, if you wanna play DK
DD= Destro/resto, DW/resto
Tanky as f: Sword N board (not a lot of dmg outpuut then but basically invincibru)
DD+Tanky= not in 2.1 > I think this is what ppl want, but this is no more, that was way too OP anyway.

And Etaniels Video shows also a good use of Magicka DK...ofc those were PvE pugs in IC but w/e...seemed to work quite well

Pretty much my sorc build, and also ported to my magicka DK (though on the sorc i use dual swords/resto,. and the dk I use snb/destro)

What i found, is that for raw damage, the Sorc still wins except if I am running the single target heavy attack/molten thing.

The snb is actually just for a bit more survival and is the offbar. Again, nothing really competes with shielded sorc here.

Bottom line, using the same sets, might as well just be a sorc if I am honest.

The main reason? Sure you can build a DK to be an off-sorc styled caster build, but unless Igneous shield scales off of Magicka, or DKs get a mobility skill, they simply cannot compete with a similarly built sorc caster.

Armitas · October 2015

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.

They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).

This is correct. Our class relies on defense and healing to secure viability, it's NB and Sorcs that secure viability through mobility. It's true that because we have no mobility that we should have defense and healing, but we cant ask for escape and mobility without paying for it in survival and healing and just become a sorc/nb clone.

Rylana · October 2015

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.

They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).

Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.

NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.

That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.

They do need to revert the most form change, though.

That is not what anyone is asking for, actually.

Currently in the meta...

Magicka DPS - Nightblade, Sorc, Templar, DK in that order
Stamina DPS - Nightblade, Templar, Sorc, DK in that order (varies as a stam DPS is pretty much all weapon skills and barely relies on class abilities anyway)
Magicka Tank - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Only a sorc or a beefy templar could really do this, by not mitigation but sustain shield stacking + heals
Stamina Tank - literally the only place a DK shines, but still a Stamplar could make a solid argument for being superior, completely useless in PvP
Healer - DKs have no real class support in their skill lines to be a healer. Any other class is better for this role, of either flavor.

My whole point, minus nitpicking of where I placed the classes, universally DKs are now the lowest order of preference in ANY role, both PvE and PvP (except for stam tanking trials and vet dungeons, they are still "ok" there)

DKs always needed to be able to both tank/survive as well as do damage or bring something else to the group to be viable in PvP, by pure nature of their class skill lines. Templars of any flavor can heal and throw down mitigations/shards/repentance. Nightblades can stealth/reset. throw down veil, offheal very well with saps and funnels, and have the best CCs in the game. Sorcs are mobile cannons with arguably the best survival mechanics (movement and shields).

What does a DK in your group bring? What is their role now? Stand there, get CCed, blobbed, no self heals, take it up the ass and die?

pretty much.

Joy_Division · October 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Yeah @Alcast thats a very vague statement can you elaborate a bit on that for us? Im not saying you didn't find something that none of us have but i am a bit sceptical.

DK SCRUB OUT

I just started testing, will have to do some more testing to get things right, I loose quite a lot due to not being able to remember where I put my skills on the bars LOL.
WIll upload videos once I get some footage together.
However, people will surely QQ that this playstyle sucks....once again xD

Using Destro/Resto
5x Krag
3x Will
1x Kena
2x Torug
Still all purple gear for now.

Only thing that bothers me (same with templars) you have no way to escape or at least port away like other classes to create some space between you and your enemies

And by escape I do not mean run away like a chicken, but for example Sorcs can "sustain" their Stamina a lot better due to Streak, DK/Temps have to sit there and cant do shizzle

And last but not least, if you wanna play DK
DD= Destro/resto, DW/resto
Tanky as f: Sword N board (not a lot of dmg outpuut then but basically invincibru)
DD+Tanky= not in 2.1 > I think this is what ppl want, but this is no more, that was way too OP anyway.

And Etaniels Video shows also a good use of Magicka DK...ofc those were PvE pugs in IC but w/e...seemed to work quite well

You just don't get it. We have already done this and, despite the perceived QQing, have actually managed to defeat some opponents without getting ourselves killed. But is that success due to the player or the class? As much I as find your play-style of stacking weapon damage and sniping people who cannot see your or the arrows you fire boring, it is clear that you know what you are doing. So, what exactly is your video going to show me? That you are a good enough player that you can still play left-handed so to speak, and still manage to win more than lose on the EU server.

On the NA server, there was a 2v2 tournament this past weekend. No scrubs, no sniping unaware opponents, all tried and tested PvP builds, just immediate and intense pressure put on you from the get go. When I see a magicka DK compete, let alone thrive, in that sort of environment, then maybe that will convince me that toe-to-toe a DK ain't all that bad. Even then we'd still have the whole lack of mobility issue - which is more than an annoyance, it is glaring vulnerability - that is *not* compensated by it ability to tank since much of this was taken away. I mean is it really saying much that a DK can go toe-to-toe with a nightblade. Just use that gear on your sorc and have real burst damage and mobility.

Dreyloch · October 2015

The Dev's just don't know what to do with DK's. Are they DPS? Are they tanks? Are they stam or magicka? What kind of armor should they be in? Can they do any combo of both for PvE and PvP? IMO, the answer is no. They have no clue wtf to do with DK's. There's just too much going on with the skills and abilities across the board. No true identifier anymore.

The gear choices and nerfs have made it very hard to come up with builds that work for different playstyles. Especially since IC came out. Now they are talking about going over class and balance changes after the beginning of next year. Which we all know means like 6 months from now till it's all said and done. Really need CU to come out so I can move on.

Alcast · October 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Yeah @Alcast thats a very vague statement can you elaborate a bit on that for us? Im not saying you didn't find something that none of us have but i am a bit sceptical.

DK SCRUB OUT

I just started testing, will have to do some more testing to get things right, I loose quite a lot due to not being able to remember where I put my skills on the bars LOL.
WIll upload videos once I get some footage together.
However, people will surely QQ that this playstyle sucks....once again xD

Using Destro/Resto
5x Krag
3x Will
1x Kena
2x Torug
Still all purple gear for now.

Only thing that bothers me (same with templars) you have no way to escape or at least port away like other classes to create some space between you and your enemies

And by escape I do not mean run away like a chicken, but for example Sorcs can "sustain" their Stamina a lot better due to Streak, DK/Temps have to sit there and cant do shizzle

And last but not least, if you wanna play DK
DD= Destro/resto, DW/resto
Tanky as f: Sword N board (not a lot of dmg outpuut then but basically invincibru)
DD+Tanky= not in 2.1 > I think this is what ppl want, but this is no more, that was way too OP anyway.

And Etaniels Video shows also a good use of Magicka DK...ofc those were PvE pugs in IC but w/e...seemed to work quite well

You just don't get it. We have already done this and, despite the perceived QQing, have actually managed to defeat some opponents without getting ourselves killed. But is that success due to the player or the class? As much I as find your play-style of stacking weapon damage and sniping people who cannot see your or the arrows you fire boring, it is clear that you know what you are doing. So, what exactly is your video going to show me? That you are a good enough player that you can still play left-handed so to speak, and still manage to win more than lose on the EU server.

On the NA server, there was a 2v2 tournament this past weekend. No scrubs, no sniping unaware opponents, all tried and tested PvP builds, just immediate and intense pressure put on you from the get go. When I see a magicka DK compete, let alone thrive, in that sort of environment, then maybe that will convince me that toe-to-toe a DK ain't all that bad. Even then we'd still have the whole lack of mobility issue - which is more than an annoyance, it is glaring vulnerability - that is *not* compensated by it ability to tank since much of this was taken away. I mean is it really saying much that a DK can go toe-to-toe with a nightblade. Just use that gear on your sorc and have real burst damage and mobility.

The mobility thingy is the biggest issue, but I do not think ZOS wants to change that soon. Same issue as Templar, you are just sitting ducks and then RIP

RadioheadSh0t · October 2015

Rylana wrote: »

RadioheadSh0t wrote: »

I find it hilarious that people want both DKs to be buffed AND get an escape.

They basically want DKs to be able to do everything other classes can do (escape) while still being able to do things those classes who have escape can't (tank damage, reflect, etc.).

Balance DOES NOT MEAN everyone can do the same thing. Sure, DK could use some tweaks, but not all classes should be able to do all things, and one class certainy shouldnt have them all.

NBs don't have a shield, viable self heal, or reflect. Sorcs have no melee class skills, reflect, or viable self heal. Templars and DKs don't have an escape, but they excel at things NBs and Sorcs cannot do.

That's not to say there aren't improvements to be made to class balance, but just "give DKs everything they don't have, while making the things they have more powerful" is not an option.

They do need to revert the most form change, though.

That is not what anyone is asking for, actually.

Currently in the meta...

Magicka DPS - Nightblade, Sorc, Templar, DK in that order
Stamina DPS - Nightblade, Templar, Sorc, DK in that order (varies as a stam DPS is pretty much all weapon skills and barely relies on class abilities anyway)
Magicka Tank - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Only a sorc or a beefy templar could really do this, by not mitigation but sustain shield stacking + heals
Stamina Tank - literally the only place a DK shines, but still a Stamplar could make a solid argument for being superior, completely useless in PvP
Healer - DKs have no real class support in their skill lines to be a healer. Any other class is better for this role, of either flavor.

My whole point, minus nitpicking of where I placed the classes, universally DKs are now the lowest order of preference in ANY role, both PvE and PvP (except for stam tanking trials and vet dungeons, they are still "ok" there)

DKs always needed to be able to both tank/survive as well as do damage or bring something else to the group to be viable in PvP, by pure nature of their class skill lines. Templars of any flavor can heal and throw down mitigations/shards/repentance. Nightblades can stealth/reset. throw down veil, offheal very well with saps and funnels, and have the best CCs in the game. Sorcs are mobile cannons with arguably the best survival mechanics (movement and shields).

What does a DK in your group bring? What is their role now? Stand there, get CCed, blobbed, no self heals, take it up the ass and die?

pretty much.

That's not what anyone is asking for? You must not be listening, because I could cite several posts where people complain about the lack of mobility/escape. There are loads of people asking for it, and in this very thread. In the "We Are ESO" podcast, 3/4 of the panelists wanted some sort of DK escape.

And I think you're MASSIVELY underrating Stam DKs. They give me more trouble than any other build 1v1. They can mitigate tons of damage and still hit me very hard. Fossilize and leap are great 1v1.

In group, Stam DKs can still spin just as well as anyone, have an incredibly useful CC against groups (shouldnt be block able though), and have by far the best AOE ultimate in the game.

DK could use some love, but rumors of its demise are greatly exaggerated.

Joy_Division · October 2015

Alcast wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

Yeah @Alcast thats a very vague statement can you elaborate a bit on that for us? Im not saying you didn't find something that none of us have but i am a bit sceptical.

DK SCRUB OUT

I just started testing, will have to do some more testing to get things right, I loose quite a lot due to not being able to remember where I put my skills on the bars LOL.
WIll upload videos once I get some footage together.
However, people will surely QQ that this playstyle sucks....once again xD

Using Destro/Resto
5x Krag
3x Will
1x Kena
2x Torug
Still all purple gear for now.

Only thing that bothers me (same with templars) you have no way to escape or at least port away like other classes to create some space between you and your enemies

And by escape I do not mean run away like a chicken, but for example Sorcs can "sustain" their Stamina a lot better due to Streak, DK/Temps have to sit there and cant do shizzle

And last but not least, if you wanna play DK
DD= Destro/resto, DW/resto
Tanky as f: Sword N board (not a lot of dmg outpuut then but basically invincibru)
DD+Tanky= not in 2.1 > I think this is what ppl want, but this is no more, that was way too OP anyway.

And Etaniels Video shows also a good use of Magicka DK...ofc those were PvE pugs in IC but w/e...seemed to work quite well

You just don't get it. We have already done this and, despite the perceived QQing, have actually managed to defeat some opponents without getting ourselves killed. But is that success due to the player or the class? As much I as find your play-style of stacking weapon damage and sniping people who cannot see your or the arrows you fire boring, it is clear that you know what you are doing. So, what exactly is your video going to show me? That you are a good enough player that you can still play left-handed so to speak, and still manage to win more than lose on the EU server.

On the NA server, there was a 2v2 tournament this past weekend. No scrubs, no sniping unaware opponents, all tried and tested PvP builds, just immediate and intense pressure put on you from the get go. When I see a magicka DK compete, let alone thrive, in that sort of environment, then maybe that will convince me that toe-to-toe a DK ain't all that bad. Even then we'd still have the whole lack of mobility issue - which is more than an annoyance, it is glaring vulnerability - that is *not* compensated by it ability to tank since much of this was taken away. I mean is it really saying much that a DK can go toe-to-toe with a nightblade. Just use that gear on your sorc and have real burst damage and mobility.

The mobility thingy is the biggest issue, but I do not think ZOS wants to change that soon. Same issue as Templar, you are just sitting ducks and then RIP

Nor necessarily should they. But not having mobility was hella better to deal with when I had blinding flashes and a decent shield

Dyride · October 2015

I think GDB going to around 25% of missing health after battle spirit would bring back the ability to rally against the odds like in the past.

Also having a class ability that gave gave immunity to snares for 3-5 secs could aid in mobility. I don't think a full escape mechanism should be given however.

I am a firm believer that DKs should not expect to easily achieve both tankiness and damage.