Shield Breaker needs to go

Soulac · October 2015

Small damage ignoring shields - not okay
Skills completely breaking cloak, block or ignoring dodge - balanced

Run Stamina Sorc and you will die to undodgeable skills. Undodgeable skills you can't outheal.
I see a problem with SB if the wielder uses a Bow, but otherwise I've yet to see any sorc who would die simply cause someone is using this set.
It's strong in Xv1, but so are mark, beam, etc.

Teargrants · October 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

One more time here.... This is NOT a sorc nerf.... this affects everyone with a shield.

DK SCRUB OUT

Sorcs can actually troll allies by popping healing wards on low health players. It's like a bullseye for Shield Breaker snipers.

It gets better, DK petrify counts as a shield on the target, so you can Petrify someone who doesn't even use shields and start spamming the Shield Breaker on him.

Alucardo · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

It gets better, DK petrify counts as a shield on the target, so you can Petrify someone who doesn't even use shields and start spamming the Shield Breaker on him.

Lol I didn't know that. Brb, buying Shield Breaker set.

Domander · October 2015

Acts wrote: »

Shield Breaker is downright a Lazy balance fix to a game were Balance is so needed and wanted.

This set is outright OP, People say you lose so much when using this set, look at the 2-4 Piece bonuses, This set is nearly a Godsend for all Stam builds.
I have fought against really good People who use this set and lost. I have ran Mutegen and Blessing of Protection, Only using Hardened ward and always lose. Sorcs cannot Out heal or mitigate the damage.

The 2.5 Damage that it does, Is to much. look at all the Sorcs, They always have anywhere from 16 - 20k Health. This is the meta, Been like this even before 1.6. 2.5k Damage is way to much.

I know the QQ'ers will say, ' Well Put more into health " That will not solve anything. Just another 1 or 2 hits from Shield breaker will negate the health.

I know even more QQ'ers will say "'''' Put pressure on said Shield Breaking Guy " Against a Person who knows how to play this game. A Real PVP'er not some Scrub PVE'er. That is not nearly Possible.

Stam builds Heals are nearly better then my DPS and I am currently Running 2942 Spell damage.
That is not even adding in the Fact that Stam builds have the ability to Roll Dodge, and Break free alot more then any Mag build can.

This set needs to be changed. The fact that you Do not lose anything but gain everything from this set is just downright Wrong.

My 2 Cents,
Acts.

I... so...you would rather have a general nerf to shields? I prefer counter play to nerfing of any kind.

Galalin · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

One more time here.... This is NOT a sorc nerf.... this affects everyone with a shield.

DK SCRUB OUT

Sorcs can actually troll allies by popping healing wards on low health players. It's like a bullseye for Shield Breaker snipers.

It gets better, DK petrify counts as a shield on the target, so you can Petrify someone who doesn't even use shields and start spamming the Shield Breaker on him.

Lmao i may have to follow @Alucardo on this one... the troll potential is just to great

DK SCRUB OUT

Teargrants · October 2015

Galalin wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

One more time here.... This is NOT a sorc nerf.... this affects everyone with a shield.

DK SCRUB OUT

Sorcs can actually troll allies by popping healing wards on low health players. It's like a bullseye for Shield Breaker snipers.

It gets better, DK petrify counts as a shield on the target, so you can Petrify someone who doesn't even use shields and start spamming the Shield Breaker on him.

Lmao i may have to follow @Alucardo on this one... the troll potential is just to great

DK SCRUB OUT

Bonus points if you proc camo hunter with shield breaker while they're inside your petrify.

NordJitsu · October 2015

This is how you balance it and still have it be strong: Shield Breaker Should Break Shields, that's it.

Basically any damage would nullify the shields, but not do damage to the player.

The set would be worth having, but slightly less powerful. This would also prevent people from hurting OTHER players by casting healing ward, they'd never be worse off.

Acts · October 2015

Domander wrote: »

Acts wrote: »

Shield Breaker is downright a Lazy balance fix to a game were Balance is so needed and wanted.

This set is outright OP, People say you lose so much when using this set, look at the 2-4 Piece bonuses, This set is nearly a Godsend for all Stam builds.
I have fought against really good People who use this set and lost. I have ran Mutegen and Blessing of Protection, Only using Hardened ward and always lose. Sorcs cannot Out heal or mitigate the damage.

The 2.5 Damage that it does, Is to much. look at all the Sorcs, They always have anywhere from 16 - 20k Health. This is the meta, Been like this even before 1.6. 2.5k Damage is way to much.

I know the QQ'ers will say, ' Well Put more into health " That will not solve anything. Just another 1 or 2 hits from Shield breaker will negate the health.

I know even more QQ'ers will say "'''' Put pressure on said Shield Breaking Guy " Against a Person who knows how to play this game. A Real PVP'er not some Scrub PVE'er. That is not nearly Possible.

Stam builds Heals are nearly better then my DPS and I am currently Running 2942 Spell damage.
That is not even adding in the Fact that Stam builds have the ability to Roll Dodge, and Break free alot more then any Mag build can.

This set needs to be changed. The fact that you Do not lose anything but gain everything from this set is just downright Wrong.

My 2 Cents,
Acts.

I... so...you would rather have a general nerf to shields? I prefer counter play to nerfing of any kind.

I would like things to be balanced, One simple change to shields being that they are critable. That will and should even out Shield balance. The Shield nerf of 1.7 is fine, Just making them critable would be perfect. No more QQ. If there is QQ once Shields are critable, That will be L2P issue.

There maybe more ways to balance it out but that is not what this thread is for.

Alucardo · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Bonus points if you proc camo hunter with shield breaker while they're inside your petrify.

Challenge accepted.

Scyantific · October 2015

Domander wrote: »

Acts wrote: »

Shield Breaker is downright a Lazy balance fix to a game were Balance is so needed and wanted.

This set is outright OP, People say you lose so much when using this set, look at the 2-4 Piece bonuses, This set is nearly a Godsend for all Stam builds.
I have fought against really good People who use this set and lost. I have ran Mutegen and Blessing of Protection, Only using Hardened ward and always lose. Sorcs cannot Out heal or mitigate the damage.

The 2.5 Damage that it does, Is to much. look at all the Sorcs, They always have anywhere from 16 - 20k Health. This is the meta, Been like this even before 1.6. 2.5k Damage is way to much.

I know the QQ'ers will say, ' Well Put more into health " That will not solve anything. Just another 1 or 2 hits from Shield breaker will negate the health.

I know even more QQ'ers will say "'''' Put pressure on said Shield Breaking Guy " Against a Person who knows how to play this game. A Real PVP'er not some Scrub PVE'er. That is not nearly Possible.

Stam builds Heals are nearly better then my DPS and I am currently Running 2942 Spell damage.
That is not even adding in the Fact that Stam builds have the ability to Roll Dodge, and Break free alot more then any Mag build can.

This set needs to be changed. The fact that you Do not lose anything but gain everything from this set is just downright Wrong.

My 2 Cents,
Acts.

I... so...you would rather have a general nerf to shields? I prefer counter play to nerfing of any kind.

lol you think Shield Breaker is "good counter play."

Galalin · October 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Bonus points if you proc camo hunter with shield breaker while they're inside your petrify.

Challenge accepted.

Count me in on this^^^^ and i

you @Teargrants for the juicy info

DK SCRUB OUT

Domander · October 2015

Scyantific wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Acts wrote: »

Shield Breaker is downright a Lazy balance fix to a game were Balance is so needed and wanted.

This set is outright OP, People say you lose so much when using this set, look at the 2-4 Piece bonuses, This set is nearly a Godsend for all Stam builds.
I have fought against really good People who use this set and lost. I have ran Mutegen and Blessing of Protection, Only using Hardened ward and always lose. Sorcs cannot Out heal or mitigate the damage.

The 2.5 Damage that it does, Is to much. look at all the Sorcs, They always have anywhere from 16 - 20k Health. This is the meta, Been like this even before 1.6. 2.5k Damage is way to much.

I know the QQ'ers will say, ' Well Put more into health " That will not solve anything. Just another 1 or 2 hits from Shield breaker will negate the health.

I know even more QQ'ers will say "'''' Put pressure on said Shield Breaking Guy " Against a Person who knows how to play this game. A Real PVP'er not some Scrub PVE'er. That is not nearly Possible.

Stam builds Heals are nearly better then my DPS and I am currently Running 2942 Spell damage.
That is not even adding in the Fact that Stam builds have the ability to Roll Dodge, and Break free alot more then any Mag build can.

This set needs to be changed. The fact that you Do not lose anything but gain everything from this set is just downright Wrong.

My 2 Cents,
Acts.

I... so...you would rather have a general nerf to shields? I prefer counter play to nerfing of any kind.

lol you think Shield Breaker is "good counter play."

Where the *** did I say that?

revonine · October 2015

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Easy fix... go NB and spam the I win/Cloak.

Did you seriously just try turn a thread about Shield Breaker into a nerf cloak debate?

Domander · October 2015

Acts wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Acts wrote: »

Shield Breaker is downright a Lazy balance fix to a game were Balance is so needed and wanted.

This set is outright OP, People say you lose so much when using this set, look at the 2-4 Piece bonuses, This set is nearly a Godsend for all Stam builds.
I have fought against really good People who use this set and lost. I have ran Mutegen and Blessing of Protection, Only using Hardened ward and always lose. Sorcs cannot Out heal or mitigate the damage.

The 2.5 Damage that it does, Is to much. look at all the Sorcs, They always have anywhere from 16 - 20k Health. This is the meta, Been like this even before 1.6. 2.5k Damage is way to much.

I know the QQ'ers will say, ' Well Put more into health " That will not solve anything. Just another 1 or 2 hits from Shield breaker will negate the health.

I know even more QQ'ers will say "'''' Put pressure on said Shield Breaking Guy " Against a Person who knows how to play this game. A Real PVP'er not some Scrub PVE'er. That is not nearly Possible.

Stam builds Heals are nearly better then my DPS and I am currently Running 2942 Spell damage.
That is not even adding in the Fact that Stam builds have the ability to Roll Dodge, and Break free alot more then any Mag build can.

This set needs to be changed. The fact that you Do not lose anything but gain everything from this set is just downright Wrong.

My 2 Cents,
Acts.

I... so...you would rather have a general nerf to shields? I prefer counter play to nerfing of any kind.

I would like things to be balanced, One simple change to shields being that they are critable. That will and should even out Shield balance. The Shield nerf of 1.7 is fine, Just making them critable would be perfect. No more QQ. If there is QQ once Shields are critable, That will be L2P issue.

There maybe more ways to balance it out but that is not what this thread is for.

Yeah, that could be a solution, but it might be too much for those shields that aren't stacked/super strong.

GuyNamedSean · October 2015

Either make the set instantly kill damage shields and then apply normal damage to the enemy or make the set ignore damage shields and do normal damage to the enemy. I think it's safe to assume those with massive shields are making up for being squishy.

Alucardo · October 2015

Domander wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

lol you think Shield Breaker is "good counter play."

Where the *** did I say that?

Right here I believe. Oh, and thanks for the compliment. You'll see what I mean.

Domander wrote: »

Shield Breaker is good counter play, and Alucardo is the most handsomest man alive

Crystelle · October 2015

GuyNamedSean wrote: »

Either make the set instantly kill damage shields and then apply normal damage to the enemy or make the set ignore damage shields and do normal damage to the enemy. I think it's safe to assume those with massive shields are making up for being squishy.

Both the solutions you offered are worse than shield breaker currently is.

Soulac wrote: »

Small damage ignoring shields - not okay
Skills completely breaking cloak, block or ignoring dodge - balanced

Run Stamina Sorc and you will die to undodgeable skills. Undodgeable skills you can't outheal.
I see a problem with SB if the wielder uses a Bow, but otherwise I've yet to see any sorc who would die simply cause someone is using this set.
It's strong in Xv1, but so are mark, beam, etc.

I'm not saying things ignoring cloak are ok, but that isn't even what this thread is about.

Crystelle · October 2015

double post

Mr_Nobody · October 2015

Shield breaker only works against shield stacking. That means, sorcs. If you cant handle a 5set piece bonus and you are no longer able to facetank 5 people and kill them 1 by 1 because of it - clearly L2P issue.

Teargrants · October 2015

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Shield breaker only works against shield stacking.

Why do you say only shield stacking? What are you smoking and can I have some?

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

That means, sorcs.

What, do you mean only sorcs stack shields? What are you smoking and can I have some?

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

If you cant handle a 5set piece bonus and you are no longer able to facetank 5 people and kill them 1 by 1 because of it - clearly L2P issue.

Why can it not mean that the 5 piece bonus is more powerful than is should be? Who said anything about 1v5ing people? What are you smoking and can I have some?

kkampaseb17_ESO · October 2015

Crystelle wrote: »

I know a lot of people think this set is completely fine and that sorcs should be punished for shield stacking, but this set is not the way to do it. This is not qqing, this is a call to fix a major imbalance.

Reasons why Shield Breaker is overpowered
1. You cannot out heal the damage that Shield Breaker does to you in anyway. Even with Rapid Regen and Blessing of Protection being spammed to save yourself.
2. Shield Breaker causes 2k irresistible damage. It doesn't require you to stack stats or manage your resources to kill anyone and your target can't even mitigate the damage. A brand new player could spam bow light attacks and kill the best sorc in the game. A skilled player using this set can kill any sorc, or any class using a damage shield, easily.
4. The set does not require any skill to be used. As I said above a new player could kill someone who has played the game for 2 years.
5. The damage is applied to the player, not the shield. The set is meant to break shields, not kill someone.
6. If you have Shield Breaker equipped Camouflaged Hunter procs through your target's shields when you damage your target's health.

Possible Solutions/Changes to make the set balanced
1. Make the damage apply to the shield and not the player.
2. Lower the damage of the set to 1k or less.
3. Give the set a cooldown, like nearly every other set in the game has.
4. Remove the set. This would be a last resort but if nothing else could be done I say begone with it

Consequently, this set was not thought through and is a ridiculous addition to the PvP of this game. If anything needs to be changed right now, it's this set.

Yours truly,
Crystelle

Make damage 2-2.5x of what is on actual shield and not the player. Fix all crit related issues on shields.

Lucky28 · October 2015

All i'd say is DK's should not be able to use Shieldbreaker that or Shieldbraker should disable reflective scales. Cause a DK with Shieldbreaker spamming bow light attacks and reflective scales is just freakin' dirty that's all that is.

Alucardo · October 2015

Lucky28 wrote: »

All i'd say is DK's should not be able to use Shieldbreaker that or Shieldbraker should disable reflective scales. Cause a DK with Shieldbreaker spamming bow light attacks and reflective scales is just freakin' dirty that's all that is.

Lmao u wat m8? Nerf DKs or stop them from using a set that's available to everyone else? What are you smoking and can I ha.. oh nevermind, that line has been used already

Lucky28 · October 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

All i'd say is DK's should not be able to use Shieldbreaker that or Shieldbraker should disable reflective scales. Cause a DK with Shieldbreaker spamming bow light attacks and reflective scales is just freakin' dirty that's all that is.

Lmao u wat m8? Nerf DKs or stop them from using a set that's available to everyone else? What are you smoking and can I ha.. oh nevermind, that line has been used already

Hell yeah. that combination is way over the top. either that or give sorcs more non-projectile spells or give force pulse/crushing shock a massive buff.

Domander · October 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

Domander wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

lol you think Shield Breaker is "good counter play."

Where the *** did I say that?

Right here I believe. Oh, and thanks for the compliment. You'll see what I mean.

If you're going to post "lol" at something then you should at least get it right. I guess you're lol'ing at something you thought you read.

I'm pretty sure making up quotes is a no no... might want to fix it.

Xsorus · October 2015

Crystelle wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Instead of saying "sorcs are fine" or "shields are fine" you'll take everyone's suggestion seriously about possibly toning down your op class or abilities instead of letting the devs try and come up with ways.

Shields had no counter, now they do.. Suck it up

Shields had plenty of counters before, like actually attacking the other person. This set now makes sorcs a free kill.

Clearly attacking the player with shields up wasn't the counter based on the fact you had countless sorcs posting videos of them face tanking 5+ players with perma shields.

Xsorus · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

So...all you naysayers, how exactly is sorc supposed to "adapt"? Like do you have any concrete suggestions beyond "stop relying on shields haha"?

Let's see, normal circumstances:

- Shield Breaker proc is ~2k (ignoring Battle Spirit 50% reduction, btw).
- The only large heal I have is Healing Ward which being a shield, means I effectively cannot heal myself with someone spamming Shield Breaker light attacks on me.
- The only way to deal with a Shield Breaker bot is to go full dps on it or run away immediately. Encouraging people to run away from fights isn't something I think ZOS should be doing.
- And let's not forget that Shield Breaker procs can also proc Expert Hunter procs which also ignore your shield and directly hit your health. Please spare me the claims of this being balanced/OK, after months of stam users complaining about skills hitting through dodge roll. This is the same thing, damage ignoring a primary defensive mechanic.
- Oh and you thought that was it? Haha no, Shield Breaker also procs on Harness Magicka even though it doesn't block physical damage to begin with! I can have Harness Magicka up, and someone can start spamming Shield Breaker light attacks one me - I'm stuck taking the full light atk + Shield Breaker dmg on my health for the next 20 seconds. Think about that.

So, let's adapt?

- Reroll to stam sorc?
- Reroll to NB?
- Block the dmg? HAHAHAHAH can't block unresistable damage.
- Don't use shields as a magicka build? Templars can get away with it with their numerous heals (BOL, Purify which is also a purge and removes incoming spell projectiles - even Meteor - because ZOS, Jabs heals and Repentence). NBs have Cloak and Double Take. DKs had GDB, now they're almost as bad off as sorc. Oh and sorc has uhm, nothing viable. Dark Exchange? That's a joke. Clanfear? Suffers the same problem as GDB + cast time. Crit Surge? Entirely RNG dependent and not a sufficient source of heals w/ Battle Spirit. Blood Magic? HAHAHAHA.
- That leaves us with non class heals for sorc. Rapid Regen? Crits for about 1k, you won't out heal Shield Breaker. Combat Prayer? This one will actually outheal Shield Breaker, but you'll basically just be spamming it in between refreshing your shield. At that point, why aren't you just going all out dps on them? Even with this you'll still have to run away if there's other people involved in the fight. Energy Orb? It's uselessly expensive.

So far I'm mostly hearing "stack more into health". What does that do for me when my primary heal (Healing Ward) becomes a non-heal because of Shield Breaker spam, and other heals are pretty much lack luster. If I stack 10k more into health, I can last through 5 more seconds of Shield Breaker spam, yay.

Perhaps this will help the stam builds out there understand the predicament? Let's say you're having an evenly matched 1v1 and I come over and start popping off random light resto attacks at you like a mouth breather and doing nothing else. Does that instantly turn your 1v1 into an "I'm screwed unless I start running away right now or kill the mouth breather" situation? No, it doesn't, does it? Should it though? That's basically what sorcs experience with Shield Breaker.

Unresistable damage through shields is not the way to go as a counterplay to shields. There are so many possibilities for fair alternatives:

- Increased damage on shields.
- Add bleed effect that only damages shields.
- Add a CC effect that procs on people with shields.
- Debuffs that lower the time left before shield expires.
- Debuffs that affect shield users, such as reduced dmg done, reduced healing received, ect.

The Shield Breaker set we have now is simply the embodiment of lazy programming.

A few things teargrant, healing ward is not the only large heal you got, it might be the best one when you consider shield stacking mechanic but it's not the only one. combat prayer for example is very effective for healing.
Also you say Zos shouldn't encourage running from fights, yet you were the first person to defend bolt escape allowing you to run from fights...

Also if you see a bow user, don't pop harness magicka.. As they most likely are using shield breaker.

In the end you defended sorcs for months while posting videos of your sorc tanking multiple people with ease.. Now you have to watch for one set and be on your toes.. Try adapting

Sharee · October 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Galalin wrote: »

One more time here.... This is NOT a sorc nerf.... this affects everyone with a shield.

DK SCRUB OUT

Sorcs can actually troll allies by popping healing wards on low health players. It's like a bullseye for Shield Breaker snipers.

It gets better, DK petrify counts as a shield on the target, so you can Petrify someone who doesn't even use shields and start spamming the Shield Breaker on him.

You can 'spam' such a target with shieldbreaker exactly once, because the first light attack damage will break the petrify.

olsborg · October 2015

Eejit1331 wrote: »

Easy fix... go NB and spam the I win/Cloak.

Yea man, I took like 9k damage from a cloak yesterday, nerf it.

Knootewoot · October 2015

It also affects magicka NB's who rely on harness magicka and more important healing ward. If I fight and pop a healing ward I die more quick because of shield breaker. And I don't have the power to use Vigor, unless there is a magicka version of it.

#BuffMagickaDamage