Because anything that costs money is bad. If any item gets put in the crown store then we must burn Zenimax at the stake!

Idk, personally I see very few complaints about the crown store. I think most of us are okay with it, so far. However, I do think people are a bit apprehensive because it opens up an easy avenue for the game to become P2W. That doesn't necessarily mean it'll happen, but I think that is the main concern some people have. However, like I said, I think most people are perfectly fine with the current state of the crown store.

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Idk, personally I see very few complaints about the crown store. I think most of us are okay with it, so far. However, I do think people are a bit apprehensive because it opens up an easy avenue for the game to become P2W. That doesn't necessarily mean it'll happen, but I think that is the main concern some people have. However, like I said, I think most people are perfectly fine with the current state of the crown store.

Another fear is the game being developed toward luring people to the store.Like long grindings that can be shorted by buying something in the store.

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Idk, personally I see very few complaints about the crown store. I think most of us are okay with it, so far. However, I do think people are a bit apprehensive because it opens up an easy avenue for the game to become P2W. That doesn't necessarily mean it'll happen, but I think that is the main concern some people have. However, like I said, I think most people are perfectly fine with the current state of the crown store.

Another fear is the game being developed toward luring people to the store.Like long grindings that can be shorted by buying something in the store.

Like putting motifs (Glass, Dwemer) that require a ridiculous amount of time and patience in the store. Dwemer wasn't SO bad. But glass is just ridiculous. It's like they made it the way it is JUST to lure people into the store. That's pretty despicable if you ask me.

ProfessorKittyhawk wrote: »

vladimilianoub17_ESO1 wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Idk, personally I see very few complaints about the crown store. I think most of us are okay with it, so far. However, I do think people are a bit apprehensive because it opens up an easy avenue for the game to become P2W. That doesn't necessarily mean it'll happen, but I think that is the main concern some people have. However, like I said, I think most people are perfectly fine with the current state of the crown store.

Another fear is the game being developed toward luring people to the store.Like long grindings that can be shorted by buying something in the store.

Like putting motifs (Glass, Dwemer) that require a ridiculous amount of time and patience in the store. Dwemer wasn't SO bad. But glass is just ridiculous. It's like they made it the way it is JUST to lure people into the store. That's pretty despicable if you ask me.

You dont get it. Cosmetic items like Glass, is perfect time-sink in MMORPGs, no-one cares if you grind them 100 hour, but it gives something nice for the grinder who put all that time into them. Crown store version is there because people hate grinding, but if you give them Glass Armor with awesome stats, hell gets lose in the forums. Shortly said, theres no conspiracy behind ESO's shop its just the way things are.

Btw, isnt it surprise that people havent whined about the shop, I'd say ESO's shop is success.

Because people want what they can't have, will complain about not having it, and then complain about not really wanting it when they finally have it.

Basically, people are strange.

A few reasons.

1.) Some people get angry at the idea of having to spend money on mmos while ignoring the fact that mmos need money coming in constantly or at the very least frequently to survive and calling companies terrible, scam artists, greedy, ect. These people like to complain about things basically and should generally just be ignored.

2.) Some people are worried about the slippery slope that is the in-game shop. They have seen too many mmos (For instance SWTOR) lock almost everything behind the in game shop in, including things as simple as being able to sprint, in order to try and milk people of every penny that they can. This is a completely valid concern as it happens too often unfortunately.

So far ESO mainly just has cosmetic items which is fine, but if they start trying to push how far they can go with it there is going to be problems.

My gripe with the store isn't about money. It's about the game.

First off, I'm a subscriber and have been since early access. I don't mind paying a subscription to play a game that requires permanent maintenance and development.

In an optional subscription model like ESO, there will be free riders, people who neither subscribe nor buy from the store. As a result, just to keep the same level of income, ZOS have to get more moolah from each paying player.

But no company changes business model to get the same bottom line - they want to get it as high as possible. This is where the game development process starts going south. We've already seen this with crafting motifs, which went from simple rare drops to an RNG lottery grind conveniently averted if you splash out some serious money in the store. Also the VR15/16 crafting mats were made so rare that you can only reasonably get them if you grind the new content which is behind a paywall.

In the end, I as a subscriber who has access to all content because of my subscription am being pushed into these grinds just like a non-paying player, simply because the game design was changed to push people towards the store. THAT is one of the things I absolutely despise in microtransaction models.

daemonios wrote: »

My gripe with the store isn't about money. It's about the game.

First off, I'm a subscriber and have been since early access. I don't mind paying a subscription to play a game that requires permanent maintenance and development.

In an optional subscription model like ESO, there will be free riders, people who neither subscribe nor buy from the store. As a result, just to keep the same level of income, ZOS have to get more moolah from each paying player.

But no company changes business model to get the same bottom line - they want to get it as high as possible. This is where the game development process starts going south. We've already seen this with crafting motifs, which went from simple rare drops to an RNG lottery grind conveniently averted if you splash out some serious money in the store. Also the VR15/16 crafting mats were made so rare that you can only reasonably get them if you grind the new content which is behind a paywall.

In the end, I as a subscriber who has access to all content because of my subscription am being pushed into these grinds just like a non-paying player, simply because the game design was changed to push people towards the store. THAT is one of the things I absolutely despise in microtransaction models.

Alright I read this post twice and it still makes no sense. Either I'm just that sleepy or something here is off.

What I make of this though is you are a PC Player that subscribes for some boons which is ESO+ if I am not mistaken. What your beef is is that you still have the same privileges as those that don't subscribe when it comes to actually playing the game. Let me know if I'm a tad off here.

PC players probably have access to the game for free at this point, yet console players pay for their console's access to online play just to be able to play this game which is not due to Zenimax but Sony/Microsoft.

ESO+ grants a small boost to gained exp, gold, and inspiration not to mention reduced research time and eventually crafting bags to carry materials seperate from our inventory. That is honestly reasonable as anything else would just be too much.


So with all this being said please help me understand your post better because frankly I just don't see what the problem is.

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

My gripe with the store isn't about money. It's about the game.

First off, I'm a subscriber and have been since early access. I don't mind paying a subscription to play a game that requires permanent maintenance and development.

In an optional subscription model like ESO, there will be free riders, people who neither subscribe nor buy from the store. As a result, just to keep the same level of income, ZOS have to get more moolah from each paying player.

But no company changes business model to get the same bottom line - they want to get it as high as possible. This is where the game development process starts going south. We've already seen this with crafting motifs, which went from simple rare drops to an RNG lottery grind conveniently averted if you splash out some serious money in the store. Also the VR15/16 crafting mats were made so rare that you can only reasonably get them if you grind the new content which is behind a paywall.

In the end, I as a subscriber who has access to all content because of my subscription am being pushed into these grinds just like a non-paying player, simply because the game design was changed to push people towards the store. THAT is one of the things I absolutely despise in microtransaction models.

Alright I read this post twice and it still makes no sense. Either I'm just that sleepy or something here is off.

What I make of this though is you are a PC Player that subscribes for some boons which is ESO+ if I am not mistaken. What your beef is is that you still have the same privileges as those that don't subscribe when it comes to actually playing the game. Let me know if I'm a tad off here.

PC players probably have access to the game for free at this point, yet console players pay for their console's access to online play just to be able to play this game which is not due to Zenimax but Sony/Microsoft.

ESO+ grants a small boost to gained exp, gold, and inspiration not to mention reduced research time and eventually crafting bags to carry materials seperate from our inventory. That is honestly reasonable as anything else would just be too much.


So with all this being said please help me understand your post better because frankly I just don't see what the problem is.

I'm going to try to be more clear, though I suspect you just don't *want* to understand my post, or simply don't agree with it (which is perfectly alright, we don't all have to agree on everything).

What I'm saying is that the game is being designed around the revenue stream (crown store) rather than being designed for the sake of the game itself. This is made worse by the fact that the store isn't the *only* revenue stream; subscribers do get a few perks, most importantly access to all content, but the design choices made to maximise revenue from the store apply to ask players alike: subscribers, crown store users and free riders. And IMHO these design choices are mostly negative.

I think the motifs and such people are upset about work fine.

For students or the unemployed who have hours to play they will generally have more in game resources or time to gain items without real money, something they will also be lacking.

For people who work 9-5 jobs they often won't have the in game resources because they can't invest the time, these people have more disposable real life money they can spent to get the items however.

As long as we don't reach the level where items are ONLY available in the store (like SWTOR) I think we're fine. Also look at Imperial City which added plenty of items like pets, costumes etc. into gameplay instead of the store only.

daemonios wrote: »

In an optional subscription model like ESO, there will be free riders, people who neither subscribe nor buy from the store. As a result, just to keep the same level of income, ZOS have to get more moolah from each paying player.

That's the part he meant. "Free riders" in your original definition of the term don't exist in this game. Everyone has paid for entry.

You're right though - they do need to monetize in one form or another. Presumably that's what the new DLC model is all about - four releases a year, two of them as large as Orsinium (so six months apart). Pretty much Destiny's monetization model for the last year, though even Destiny is changing that to free DLC and an optional cosmetic cash shop instead.

If they want money, DLC like Orsinium is the right way to go. I have no interest in the Imperial City, so won't be buying that, but will definitely be buying a new zone that can be played solo at any level. I'll happily drop 2500 Crowns on DLC like that every six months.

If they want me to subscribe, then they need a much better subscription model. Rented DLC sounds like an awful deal if I'm giving them £8.99 every single month. And if all I get in return is an EXP buff so small I won't notice it (WildStar offers a 25% EXP buff for subscribers. SWTOR a 1200% EXP buff O.o for the main story missions so subs can skip all the side quests if they want to) and a monthly Crown allowance to spend on... what? A random assortment of pets and the ability to dress up as a clown? No thanks...

So if they want more money, DLC like Orsinium is a great direction to take, but the Crown store also needs more compelling items on offer (maybe additional character customization unlocks, like new hairstyles and beards, released alongside a FREE for everyone barber shop - just monetize that through Crown store customization extras), and the subscriber EXP bonus needs to be at least 20%. Pretty sure that would lead to a lot more players like me (more than enough money to spend on a subscription, not enough time to play regularly - so EXP bonuses would be awesome for me) choosing to subscribe.

I don't think people have a problem with the crown store... do they?

Cadelay wrote: »

Also, limited edition items are the WORST. Why? Why make players miserable when they miss out because they weren't online to get something they wanted.

Because it makes players who were there and bought it happy that they did so, making them feel they received something worthwhile because it was "limited", and will also make those who weren't there at the time or didn't buy it, more apt to buy something in the future. It's all psychological... something appears to have more worth or is more valued IF it has a limited quantity- especially for collectors.

Also, the company needs to be money grabbing especially if they don't want to have another round of layoffs, this time in departments other than Customer Service.