Removal of VR

pcripper39ub17_ESO · October 2015

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

What I expect is they will sometime in the future raise the vr rank to 18, let that stay for 6 months or so. Then, say "Good news everyone, we are removing vet ranks! And we are raising the max level to 70! " . Lot easier to relabel the equipment they keep adding than it is trying to remove it. So, those bright shiny VR16 Shieldbreaker sets will be level 66 armor for instance.

ItsGlaive · October 2015

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

The point of removing them was to shorten the journey to cap, while CP were introduced to maintain a sense of progression beyond the the cap.

VR and silver/gold was introduced in the run up to release due to the dearth of end game content around launch, and was marketed as optional. However the reality is that it isn't optional at all as all end game activities require you to be at cap to be competitive.

Remove VR, allowing people to catch their friends and guildies up in a realistic timeframe (realistic for those who don't have dozens of hours of free time a week to grind) and keep CP. People can still explore the other factions, but it'll all be level 50 rather than on the VR scale.

Enodoc · October 2015

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

Removing them, yes. Replacing them with "something else", no. Their intended replacement is CPs, and CPs are already there.

The main reason I want them removed is to remove the linearity of the Veteran content, and make Veteran content parallel rather than sequential.

deadlock007 · October 2015

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

Arato wrote: »

deadlock007 wrote: »

The_Drexill wrote: »

VR is why I haven't come back to the game, and likely wont. Leaves you too far behind after a break... not to mention they're 100% boring and uninspired.

You know they have changed them so you can easily get 1 every hour or so. We have people wanting to make the devs rework the whole game over something that takes about 15-20 hours of playtime. It's even worse when some of the people demanding it DON'T EVEN PLAY THE GAME......

1 every hour or so maybe if you're just grinding mobs in a circle, which appeals to a very small minority of gamers. If you're questing it takes longer.

LOL, I don't grind

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

deadlock007 wrote: »

The_Drexill wrote: »

VR is why I haven't come back to the game, and likely wont. Leaves you too far behind after a break... not to mention they're 100% boring and uninspired.

You know they have changed them so you can easily get 1 every hour or so. We have people wanting to make the devs rework the whole game over something that takes about 15-20 hours of playtime. It's even worse when some of the people demanding it DON'T EVEN PLAY THE GAME......

Please share by faction, zone and method how you're gaining 1 VR per hour
msg me if you'd rather not comment here.

seriously

Here is a link to the last time I commented on a post about VR ranks. I was very surprised at how easy it is now.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2307563/#Comment_2307563

twistedmonk · October 2015

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

I personally find these polls pointless...

Zenimax needs to hire a talented game designer who has a vision and can lead the game to make it better instead of just putting band-aids on things.

willymchilybily · October 2015

I want to keep VR ranks but they should be modified somehow.

hate the Vr grind, but cant be removed. its too difficult. have to keep it at VR16 but just dont introduce any more! for heaven sake. its daunting enough when you hit VR1 to see how long it takes to get to VR2

the bigger that mountain the less new players will stick it out

deadlock007 · October 2015

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

twistedmonk wrote: »

I personally find these polls pointless...

Zenimax needs to hire a talented game designer who has a vision and can lead the game to make it better instead of just putting band-aids on things.

Actually I think this poll is pretty revealing. 6 months ago the numbers would be VERY different. It appears now that the majority of players like the VR, and since most people come to the forums to complain about stuff I think that says a lot.

Turelus · October 2015

I don't care what happens with VR ranks, just give me the chance to use ANY SET at ANY LEVEL!!!

seitekisaki · October 2015

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

Replacing VR ranks with a system that just pays attention to item level would be good. I'm not a fan of grinding or the veteran zone content. I don't think anyone should be.

Robbmrp · October 2015

DhuBleidd wrote: »

There has been a lot of discussion about removal of VR ranks so I wanted to see how many people actually agree or disagree with it. Also please after you vote write the reason why you voted so, would like this to be a constructive thread. nbsp pls

Now that we know @ZOS has the ability to apply the Zone to your level, it may be possible to apply that to all zones. If they could base difficulty off the number of skill/champion points you have, then maybe they can get rid of levels all together but I kind of doubt it. They have put in a lot of work to get where we are today. I wouldn't be surprised if Vet levels never went away.

phbell · October 2015

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

phbell wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

phbell wrote: »

The only people that I see complaining are those that do not want to do the work to earn them.

define earn them and please specify when said time-frame of "earn them" was accomplished by yourself.

-I'm writing this because depending on when you progressed the methods have changed drastically from PC launch until now.
When it was common to do silver n gold only via grouping and then later the difficulty was changed to allow solo progress. VR was 8, then 10, 12, 14 and now 16 pending what will be a VR18 max soon.

OR Craglorn grinding when that was released as well as the silver and gold zone grinding
.....fast forward to now

All the above has changed so when you comment saying people don't want to work or earn levels, its taken very different depending on whose reading the comments. Right now people hear, "go do all the quests in silver and gold or PvP grind public dungeons or IC sewers."

Me personally...when i see comment like this, I tend to think there is a lack of consideration for others as we all heard and to some extent are aware of the announcement made prior to the justice system, champion system and console launch that Veteran levels are being removed. That alone is the reason VR should be removed....

The "them" to which I refer is Vet levels and by "earn" i mean exactly what the word means. Do the work. I got my first 3 toons to VR 12 back when that was the highest level and each level required more XP last the last - V12 needing something like 5.4M xp. Then 1.6 dropped and those players that followed could earn V12 with 1M xp per level. Then the latest patch has lowered each level to 850K and still people complain.

Lack of consideration? Perhaps. But no more than the lack of consideration offered those that put in the game time and work to reach the VR levels, from those that want the same levels without putting in the same effort.

Remove Vet levels? Every time ZOS says this they add 2 more levels, making it even harder to unwind. Soon VR18 will be the max. That is a odd way to go about eliminating them.

Ok so in context...you're expecting others to progress as you have when in fact whichever way you decided to level up, all options are drastically different and take a whole heck of a lot longer.

The only changes that work to a players advantage now are if they don't mind doing the silver and gold quests (not grinding but the actual quests) or go to a PvP public dungeon or IC sewers all which still take longer than when the max was vr12.

I think both of us having been around back then can fairly agree that things are drastically different.
My question to you is this....why should players "earn" VR levels knowing that they will be completely removed soon?

Regardless of any opinions, does it make sense to "earn" something that will be taken away? (Think of how VR was applied to champion levels) or how (the champion level cap takes away any "earned" champion levels over 502)

In regards to Vet rankings what Zenimax says and what Zenimax does are very different things. Champion Points were intended to replace VR levels, yet we now have both. With each update 2 higher Vet levels have been added, but suddenly CP's are being capped. This is a strange way to go about eliminating Vet Ranks - at least to my thinking. With Capped CP and no other upward progression (vis a vis, Vet levels) the only reason to continue supporting this game is added content;, however, given the fact that the current infrastructure cannot support the current player-base and content (as evidenced with the lag, CTDT, ridiculous load screens, etc.) any new content holds less appeal. Frankly Zenimax appears rudderless so I wouldn't wager real money on any outcomes.

BuggeX · October 2015

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

Xabien wrote: »

VR and silver/gold was introduced in the run up to release due to the dearth of end game content around launch, and was marketed as optional. However the reality is that it isn't optional at all as all end game activities require you to be at cap to be competitive.

No VR and Gold/silver was implemented cause Alpha tester requested this.
Most Players dont have the time/willing to Play a toon just to see the other zones

willymchilybily wrote: »

hate the Vr grind, but cant be removed. its too difficult. have to keep it at VR16 but just dont introduce any more! for heaven sake. its daunting enough when you hit VR1 to see how long it takes to get to VR2

the bigger that mountain the less new players will stick it out

dont you think new Player will have more fear about the CPs than of the 16 Vet ranks right now?

Emma_Overload · October 2015

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

Who the heck likes VR? Do you really enjoy spending weeks or months to level an alt???

TalonShina · October 2015

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Who the heck likes VR? Do you really enjoy spending weeks or months to level an alt???

I don't mind the idea of them and my husband has had no issues with 3 VR characters right now one maxed one like at 5 or 6 and one at 1

I have a vr 1 and I am leveling another toon because i wanted a DK healer argonian in the AD and I will still likely continue progress on my bosmer as well

Also a lot of players don't play alts they focus on one toon, a lot play alts too. i have an alt problem which is usually only solved once I fall madly in love with a character then i tinker with others but I play my loved character the most

RatedChaotic · October 2015

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

If we all had the same lvl, attributes,stats,abilities,gear ect... You people will still complain.

Keep the VR ranks and end the cp cap!!!! Simple solution quit crying and play more.

F7sus4 · October 2015

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

850k XP per veteran rank with 16 ranks total is not that much.

TalonShina · October 2015

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

RatedChaotic wrote: »

If we all had the same lvl, attributes,stats,abilities,gear ect... You people will still complain.

Keep the VR ranks and end the cp cap!!!! Simple solution quit crying and play more.

Could not agree more with this. While I can except the CP cap and I get the complaints the gap between me and others CP wise never phased me. I knew people would be more powerful.

Bashev · October 2015

VRs should be removed and replaced with nothing.

NewBlacksmurf · October 2015

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

deadlock007 wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

deadlock007 wrote: »

The_Drexill wrote: »

VR is why I haven't come back to the game, and likely wont. Leaves you too far behind after a break... not to mention they're 100% boring and uninspired.

You know they have changed them so you can easily get 1 every hour or so. We have people wanting to make the devs rework the whole game over something that takes about 15-20 hours of playtime. It's even worse when some of the people demanding it DON'T EVEN PLAY THE GAME......

1 every hour or so maybe if you're just grinding mobs in a circle, which appeals to a very small minority of gamers. If you're questing it takes longer.

LOL, I don't grind

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

deadlock007 wrote: »

The_Drexill wrote: »

VR is why I haven't come back to the game, and likely wont. Leaves you too far behind after a break... not to mention they're 100% boring and uninspired.

You know they have changed them so you can easily get 1 every hour or so. We have people wanting to make the devs rework the whole game over something that takes about 15-20 hours of playtime. It's even worse when some of the people demanding it DON'T EVEN PLAY THE GAME......

Please share by faction, zone and method how you're gaining 1 VR per hour
msg me if you'd rather not comment here.

seriously

Here is a link to the last time I commented on a post about VR ranks. I was very surprised at how easy it is now.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2307563/#Comment_2307563

I'm going to claim your timer is extremely inaccurate.
your comments:

Easily? No. I'd sooner quit the game than play like this. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against grinders, but it irks me when people use grinding XP rate as the baseline. This isn't how everyone imagines having fun.

But it really is a lot easier now than it used to be. My boyfriend and I decided to level a couple of our lower vets the other weekend by doing some quests in Cadwell's gold (I hardly ever grind either) and managed to get 1 1/4 vet levels in about 1.5 hours. This was casual play and even taking a break or 2 for drinks and smokes. Yes we are subbed and married in game and took XP pots but still, it was pretty freakin fast.

So you're telling me that you and someone else played with:
-ESO Plus
-RIng of Mara
-XP Pots

and you didn't grind "hardly" and did quests for approx. 1 - 1.5 hours and gained 1 VR level in Cadwell's gold zone.

Please be specific because having done those and while doing that zone this month with a friend where all situations apply to us, either you lost track of time or you're not sharing something really important. In that timeframe not grinding, my experience has been at best to gain 1/4th of a VR level but you're saying 1+1/4.

aco5712 · October 2015

my only concern is about how the gearing would work. tying it to CP is bad because there are players with so much more CP and getting 1k CP compared to getting vr16 is a massive jump. And with the cap coming in at 501, its just like having a level cap with a different name and a bigger grind. Granted that grind is account wide so that is a nice bonus. Im very confused on how to feel about this topic.

I do like the idea of battle leveling everything in game though. I HATE the fact that i need max level to be the best i can be in pvp but then you cant go back to complete the rest of the story because killing something thats level 10 as a vr16 is just lol. Battle leveling everything in this game would take ESO to the next level imo. It would be something different and would give it a better single player eso feel while also keeping the mmo aspect.

RatedChaotic · October 2015

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Who the heck likes VR? Do you really enjoy spending weeks or months to level an alt???

I only create alts when my main is max lvl and geared out. So it doesnt bother me. I like the VRs.

phbell · October 2015

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

twistedmonk wrote: »

I personally find these polls pointless...

Zenimax needs to hire a talented game designer who has a vision and can lead the game to make it better instead of just putting band-aids on things.

I disagree on the VR levels - I think there should be more. But I give you an AWESOME on the game designer/band-aid comment. On that we are in total harmony.

deadlock007 · October 2015

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

deadlock007 wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

deadlock007 wrote: »

The_Drexill wrote: »

VR is why I haven't come back to the game, and likely wont. Leaves you too far behind after a break... not to mention they're 100% boring and uninspired.

You know they have changed them so you can easily get 1 every hour or so. We have people wanting to make the devs rework the whole game over something that takes about 15-20 hours of playtime. It's even worse when some of the people demanding it DON'T EVEN PLAY THE GAME......

1 every hour or so maybe if you're just grinding mobs in a circle, which appeals to a very small minority of gamers. If you're questing it takes longer.

LOL, I don't grind

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

deadlock007 wrote: »

The_Drexill wrote: »

VR is why I haven't come back to the game, and likely wont. Leaves you too far behind after a break... not to mention they're 100% boring and uninspired.

You know they have changed them so you can easily get 1 every hour or so. We have people wanting to make the devs rework the whole game over something that takes about 15-20 hours of playtime. It's even worse when some of the people demanding it DON'T EVEN PLAY THE GAME......

Please share by faction, zone and method how you're gaining 1 VR per hour
msg me if you'd rather not comment here.

seriously

Here is a link to the last time I commented on a post about VR ranks. I was very surprised at how easy it is now.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2307563/#Comment_2307563

I'm going to claim your timer is extremely inaccurate.
your comments:

Easily? No. I'd sooner quit the game than play like this. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against grinders, but it irks me when people use grinding XP rate as the baseline. This isn't how everyone imagines having fun.

But it really is a lot easier now than it used to be. My boyfriend and I decided to level a couple of our lower vets the other weekend by doing some quests in Cadwell's gold (I hardly ever grind either) and managed to get 1 1/4 vet levels in about 1.5 hours. This was casual play and even taking a break or 2 for drinks and smokes. Yes we are subbed and married in game and took XP pots but still, it was pretty freakin fast.

So you're telling me that you and someone else played with:
-ESO Plus
-RIng of Mara
-XP Pots

and you didn't grind "hardly" and did quests for approx. 1 - 1.5 hours and gained 1 VR level in Cadwell's gold zone.

Please be specific because having done those and while doing that zone this month with a friend where all situations apply to us, either you lost track of time or you're not sharing something really important. In that timeframe not grinding, my experience has been at best to gain 1/4th of a VR level but you're saying 1+1/4.

Ok it's pretty simple, this is like the 3rd or 4th time both of us have done these quests, so we know the story and skip through the dialog and gather multiple quests in the zone at the same time and work on them at the same time while killing mobs that we run past instead of ignoring them. My point was that VR is a lot easier to get through now and the devs time would be better spent on new content and bug fixes and not reworking the whole game because of a problem that really doesn't exist anymore.

Also, I don't understand just because YOU didn't get it why you would accuse me of being wrong instead of just asking for a little more clarification. That wasn't very nice

#VRNEEDTOSTAY

Arato · October 2015

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

RatedChaotic wrote: »

If we all had the same lvl, attributes,stats,abilities,gear ect... You people will still complain.

Keep the VR ranks and end the cp cap!!!! Simple solution quit crying and play more.

No, not really.

I like replacing gear that I have when a new set, with new bonuses comes out that I like better than what I'm wearing. I HATE replacing my gear when it's the SAME SETS, just a higher level.

unfortunately this game not only has higher stats on higher level gear, but it LOWERS the stats of gear you are wearing that is below your level. I didn't really progress, mobs my level take the same time if not longer to kill, I'm relatively weaker, not relatively stronger, I'm wearing the same gear as I was wearing before it just has higher numbers. That's not exciting, fun, or feeling like character progression.

I played Guild Wars for several years. I play GW2 still and have played it since launch. I have several characters at cap with maxed out gear, and they've had those stats for 2+ years, and I'm quite happy they're not raising the level cap in their expansion. I just want more content to do, not more illusory "progression"

Audigy · October 2015

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

I like the idea that we can ascent to a higher point of existence (ya I stole this from SG1).

VR´s show the char progress, much better than item or gear in general ever will.

It´s something that just stands out so to speak. However, there could be some tweaks here and there, a higher VR should mean something, just like the CS - a missed opportunity in my opinion. What I always wanted is a boost to additional features that we unlock, things that for instance could be used in a housing or reputation system.

As higher you get, as more you can unlock, as more respected you are among Tamriel. New crafts, new dye´s, entry to special places, new quests ...

Just a number or more damage is boring.

LostRedden · October 2015

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

Robbmrp wrote: »

DhuBleidd wrote: »

There has been a lot of discussion about removal of VR ranks so I wanted to see how many people actually agree or disagree with it. Also please after you vote write the reason why you voted so, would like this to be a constructive thread. nbsp pls

Now that we know @ZOS has the ability to apply the Zone to your level, it may be possible to apply that to all zones. If they could base difficulty off the number of skill/champion points you have, then maybe they can get rid of levels all together but I kind of doubt it. They have put in a lot of work to get where we are today. I wouldn't be surprised if Vet levels never went away.

They don't really apply the zone to your level, Orsinium will all be vet 16, but your characters that are lower than vet 14 will be battle leveled. They did this so that players won't be ostracized from such content.

dodgehopper_ESO · October 2015

Arato wrote: »

s_tibob16_ESO wrote: »

With champion points as an infinite or (near infinite) progression system in place I do not see the need to keep VR levels. I'm really hoping that with their removal comes a simplification of the types of basic crafting materials as well (as in, only iron/steel/(orc?)ore, dwemer, then ebony as the highest tier metal.) Right now there's way too many with the VR's.

You know, I really wanted this myself, in single player TES games, ebony is the highest grade of raw metal (Daedric is just a processed ebony).. but here they've thrown in all kinds of metals that simply don't exist in the TES universe and it feels corny.

But with the raise to VR16 and adding a new tier of material? Not going to happen unfortunately.

A lot of us are thinking this regarding Ebony. I don't understand galatite, quicksilver, void steel or any of those either. They don't really fit the lore too well unless Void Steel, galatite and quicksilver are just ores of Ebony??? I've posted about this topic before as well.

Arato · October 2015

I agree with removing VR ranks and replacing them with something else.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

s_tibob16_ESO wrote: »

With champion points as an infinite or (near infinite) progression system in place I do not see the need to keep VR levels. I'm really hoping that with their removal comes a simplification of the types of basic crafting materials as well (as in, only iron/steel/(orc?)ore, dwemer, then ebony as the highest tier metal.) Right now there's way too many with the VR's.

You know, I really wanted this myself, in single player TES games, ebony is the highest grade of raw metal (Daedric is just a processed ebony).. but here they've thrown in all kinds of metals that simply don't exist in the TES universe and it feels corny.

But with the raise to VR16 and adding a new tier of material? Not going to happen unfortunately.

A lot of us are thinking this regarding Ebony. I don't understand galatite, quicksilver, void steel or any of those either. They don't really fit the lore too well unless Void Steel, galatite and quicksilver are just ores of Ebony??? I've posted about this topic before as well.

I mean I totally understand making up materials for a fantasy world, afterall, orichalcum doesn't exist, neither does "dwemer metal" (although from the looks of it, it's brass, but that's an alloy), and neither does ebony as a metal (ebony is a wood). Yeah, they're made up, but they're also relatively consistent within the other games in Tamriel. You ALWAYS had iron, steel, dwemer, "orcish" which in Skyrim is made from Orichalcum, ebony, and daedric (which is ebony treated in daedric blood), then there was "elven" which in skyrim is made of moonstone (and in TESO... that makes Khajiit???)

I want consistency. You ruin a fantasy world by making it inconsistent.

Rayste · October 2015

I like VR ranks as they are and want to keep them.

At this point, given the amount of new content and different ways to level, there really isn't a reason to remove them. That would be a lot of wasted resources for no reason. If you must, just lower the xp required per vet rank even more.

That said, no more vet levels need to be added.

ostrapz · October 2015

It sucks foghting v16 as v1 but as a v6 its not tooo bad now. Whats the point of removing vr now. Just cap it here at 16, cp cap move up as the newer players catch-up a bit ( those transfers with 500+ cp hit hard on console). And being all those sets up to a max level. Like kynes flights a decent set with a bow snare, cool its at v5 but there should be all previous sets as an option as max gear