[Confirmed Bug] Maelstrom Weps. Huge imbalance between stam/mag, almost 10x more dmg for stam!

byrom101b16_ESO · October 2015

Come on ZOS - sort the damn destro staff out generally and bin this garbage master weapon 'bonus' for something people might actually use for a change!

Alternatively, make WoE good enough to use, and keep the staff as it is, and just fix the borked OP 2H sword bonus.

angelyn · October 2015

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

Come on ZOS - sort the damn destro staff out generally and bin this garbage master weapon 'bonus' for something people might actually use for a change!

Alternatively, make WoE good enough to use, and keep the staff as it is, and just fix the borked OP 2H sword bonus.

^^THIS -especially when you think of the following:

Stamina weapon skill lines in game -4
Magicka weapon skill lines in game- 2

I think maybe they intended 3 different skill lines for frost,fire and shock but didn't get there in the end. This would have made them equal.

Magicka users literally HAVE NO CHOICE FOR OFFENSIVE WEAPON skill lines.We get ONE SKILL LINE ONLY, so make it worth having.Seriously, even in the latest devs play the sorcerer didn't use any destro staff abilities. How bad must the skill line be that you would give up your one and only option for an offensive weapon?

Improve the destruction skill line. Please

. Or give us the same amount of choice in skill lines that stamina weapons have.

See here for this same feedback , from many more players:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/220579/do-you-think-the-destruction-staff-needs-a-buff/p1

EDIT: Perhaps it was intended to give magicka users less weapon skill lines since there was a magicka bias in class abilities? If it is, then ZOS need to be adding magicka weapon skill lines as they convert class skills from magicka into stamina. Otherwise, magicka users will only ever have diminishing choices. Not that having one offensive weapon skill line, to choose from is a choice.

Glantir · October 2015

It also would be nice if desto staffs give the most Spellpower and not DW or 2H... ^^

ChefZero · October 2015

Glantir wrote: »

It also would be nice if desto staffs give the most Spellpower and not DW or 2H... ^^

It isn't that easy. They could boost the basedamage on staff up to the equal value like 2h. So your skills does the same damage as with 2h (we ignore heavy weapon passiv) and you can weave with light or heavy attacks. But the big problem would be now the heavy attacks from fire staff.. 20k from stealth in PvP should be possible in that case.

Wollust · October 2015

Pls ZoS, for the love of all gods, don't nerf the 2h. The 2h is more than fine. The problem lies within the other weapons being way too weak for what they are. Rework those, buff them, but do not start nerfing the 2h. Those weapons should all be so powerful and not less.

Glantir · October 2015

ChefZero wrote: »

Glantir wrote: »

It also would be nice if desto staffs give the most Spellpower and not DW or 2H... ^^

It isn't that easy. They could boost the basedamage on staff up to the equal value like 2h. So your skills does the same damage as with 2h (we ignore heavy weapon passiv) and you can weave with light or heavy attacks. But the big problem would be now the heavy attacks from fire staff.. 20k from stealth in PvP should be possible in that case.

They could add a spellpower buff in the passive line of desto staffs ;-)

Maulkin · October 2015

Wollust wrote: »

Pls ZoS, for the love of all gods, don't nerf the 2h. The 2h is more than fine. The problem lies within the other weapons being way too weak for what they are. Rework those, buff them, but do not start nerfing the 2h. Those weapons should all be so powerful and not less.

But they are not weak at all.

You get 1-piece weapon/spell damage bonus of 189 which is 50% more than you get with any normal set. For example on my Sorc I use 2-piece Torugs (Hat + Staff) for 129 spell if i get this staff I get 60 more spell damage AND free up a slot for another item.

The extra effect is just the cherry on the cake and should be something nice but nothing that pushes the weapon into OP territory, which is what happens with the 2H.

Dracane · October 2015

I'm still waiting for Zenimax to add a glove for staves, that counts as a minor armor piece and offers a 2nd trait place.
Then I would consider staves more balanced compared to dual wield. (bows would deserve it either)
Staves offer less spell/weapon damage, offer only 1 trait place, which totally messes up build diversity. You get punished for not using sword and board or dual wield in this game.

Destruction staff is not strong or something, allowing it to have 2 trait places would be fair and balanced.
This is an easy solution and would make destruction staff more appealing, even though their active and passive abilities are still garbage mostly.

Leon119 · October 2015

unless you are a healer or a 2h user all other weapons are inferior to code set IF it actually works like tooltip says and the 1 piece bonus isnt the 5 piece that its missing. if it is the 10% crit chance seems too OP

Dracane · October 2015

Leon119 wrote: »

unless you are a healer or a 2h user all other weapons are inferior to code set IF it actually works like tooltip says and the 1 piece bonus isnt the 5 piece that its missing. if it is the 10% crit chance seems too OP

What 10% crit chance do you mean ?
You mean this one new set ? I think it does not offer 10% crit chance.
~2100+ crit chance equals 10%. But this set offers less. I say it's rather 8% crit, don't know.

Wollust · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Pls ZoS, for the love of all gods, don't nerf the 2h. The 2h is more than fine. The problem lies within the other weapons being way too weak for what they are. Rework those, buff them, but do not start nerfing the 2h. Those weapons should all be so powerful and not less.

But they are not weak at all.

You get 1-piece weapon/spell damage bonus of 189 which is 50% more than you get with any normal set. For example on my Sorc I use 2-piece Torugs (Hat + Staff) for 129 spell if i get this staff I get 60 more spell damage AND free up a slot for another item.

The extra effect is just the cherry on the cake and should be something nice but nothing that pushes the weapon into OP territory, which is what happens with the 2H.

The extra spell damage/weapon damage bonus is really nice. I got the same thing as you with my sorc. But here's the thing: I think the main priority of this weapons should be the ability altering. And fact is, what they do now is seriously weak and/or unnecessary.
The 2h we saw first had 25% increase through the CPs. The damage is more at around 11k. But let's go with those 14kish. In PVP it will be halfed by the battle spirit reduction. Left with a 7k damage over 5 seconds. And we haven't even brought in armor reduction or other stuff like maim and whatever. And let's not forget that DoTs aren't really what you'd call op in PVP, as they are purgable through cleanse, efficient purge and cloak plus shields prevent any crit.
I really really do not think the 2h is too OP in PVP, I think the others are too weak. But that also comes from the fact that they improve the second abilities of the skill trees, which is a very good skill on the 2h (crit rush) and on the 1h (deep slash, but the sword bonus is garbage..) and on the other weapons it affects skills which aren't really used that much.

Ishammael · October 2015

Wollust wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Pls ZoS, for the love of all gods, don't nerf the 2h. The 2h is more than fine. The problem lies within the other weapons being way too weak for what they are. Rework those, buff them, but do not start nerfing the 2h. Those weapons should all be so powerful and not less.

But they are not weak at all.

You get 1-piece weapon/spell damage bonus of 189 which is 50% more than you get with any normal set. For example on my Sorc I use 2-piece Torugs (Hat + Staff) for 129 spell if i get this staff I get 60 more spell damage AND free up a slot for another item.

The extra effect is just the cherry on the cake and should be something nice but nothing that pushes the weapon into OP territory, which is what happens with the 2H.

The extra spell damage/weapon damage bonus is really nice. I got the same thing as you with my sorc. But here's the thing: I think the main priority of this weapons should be the ability altering. And fact is, what they do now is seriously weak and/or unnecessary.
The 2h we saw first had 25% increase through the CPs. The damage is more at around 11k. But let's go with those 14kish. In PVP it will be halfed by the battle spirit reduction. Left with a 7k damage over 5 seconds. And we haven't even brought in armor reduction or other stuff like maim and whatever. And let's not forget that DoTs aren't really what you'd call op in PVP, as they are purgable through cleanse, efficient purge and cloak plus shields prevent any crit.
I really really do not think the 2h is too OP in PVP, I think the others are too weak. But that also comes from the fact that they improve the second abilities of the skill trees, which is a very good skill on the 2h (crit rush) and on the 1h (deep slash, but the sword bonus is garbage..) and on the other weapons it affects skills which aren't really used that much.

Have you looked at how much dmg DK DoTs do? Their bread and butter skills do less dmg than a DoT you get for free by using this weapon. Its way overpowered. In fact, this DoT is so good that magicka builds will run it in PvP even w/o mighty passive.

Dracane · October 2015

Wollust wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Pls ZoS, for the love of all gods, don't nerf the 2h. The 2h is more than fine. The problem lies within the other weapons being way too weak for what they are. Rework those, buff them, but do not start nerfing the 2h. Those weapons should all be so powerful and not less.

But they are not weak at all.

You get 1-piece weapon/spell damage bonus of 189 which is 50% more than you get with any normal set. For example on my Sorc I use 2-piece Torugs (Hat + Staff) for 129 spell if i get this staff I get 60 more spell damage AND free up a slot for another item.

The extra effect is just the cherry on the cake and should be something nice but nothing that pushes the weapon into OP territory, which is what happens with the 2H.

The extra spell damage/weapon damage bonus is really nice. I got the same thing as you with my sorc. But here's the thing: I think the main priority of this weapons should be the ability altering. And fact is, what they do now is seriously weak and/or unnecessary.
The 2h we saw first had 25% increase through the CPs. The damage is more at around 11k. But let's go with those 14kish. In PVP it will be halfed by the battle spirit reduction. Left with a 7k damage over 5 seconds. And we haven't even brought in armor reduction or other stuff like maim and whatever. And let's not forget that DoTs aren't really what you'd call op in PVP, as they are purgable through cleanse, efficient purge and cloak plus shields prevent any crit.
I really really do not think the 2h is too OP in PVP, I think the others are too weak. But that also comes from the fact that they improve the second abilities of the skill trees, which is a very good skill on the 2h (crit rush) and on the 1h (deep slash, but the sword bonus is garbage..) and on the other weapons it affects skills which aren't really used that much.

Invalid, because dual wield again gets it's normal superior damage boost+ extra weapon damage on both daggers.it's status quo, nothing changes.

OGLezard · October 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

I you @ScruffyWhiskers but I still do not like that melee weapons give more sd than staffs.......

Ok. Let's make them equal! I can live with that. Actually, I have always tried to make a destro staff work on my second bar and have failed every time. I would love it if they boosted the spell power. I'm for anything that boosts spell power.

If elected President of Tamriel the Magicka Rebalancing Act would be my first signature bill. Oh, and I would also throw all stam users into the Imperial Prison too.

I also think, that dual wield can gladly add the biggest amount of weapon damage, but destruction staves should definately add the biggest amount of spell power.

A staff is meant to channel your arcane power, but daggers do it better ? this can't be right.

so much this! Eric gave a bunk excuse as to why they did it that way.... When I asked him why WoE damage was so lack luster compared to the ever so popular PBAOE steel tornado, he said and I quote " we increased the duration of WoE so we feel it is pretty good right now. Besides if you stand in it you are going to melt *insert awkward chuckle*"

Excuse me ? You "melt when you stand in it" Eric is so cute
I mean, when I look at him, I melt. But he shouldn't compare himself to wall of elements.

^_^ I can feel the love!!! But yea my question to him during that eso live episode was "do you have any plans to make WoE more competitive compared to PBAOE that are harder to avoid considering you can side step out of WoE and only take one tic of damage" his reply to that question made me question everything about ESO

What took you so long?

@Joy_Division I dont know

Wollust · October 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Pls ZoS, for the love of all gods, don't nerf the 2h. The 2h is more than fine. The problem lies within the other weapons being way too weak for what they are. Rework those, buff them, but do not start nerfing the 2h. Those weapons should all be so powerful and not less.

But they are not weak at all.

You get 1-piece weapon/spell damage bonus of 189 which is 50% more than you get with any normal set. For example on my Sorc I use 2-piece Torugs (Hat + Staff) for 129 spell if i get this staff I get 60 more spell damage AND free up a slot for another item.

The extra effect is just the cherry on the cake and should be something nice but nothing that pushes the weapon into OP territory, which is what happens with the 2H.

The extra spell damage/weapon damage bonus is really nice. I got the same thing as you with my sorc. But here's the thing: I think the main priority of this weapons should be the ability altering. And fact is, what they do now is seriously weak and/or unnecessary.
The 2h we saw first had 25% increase through the CPs. The damage is more at around 11k. But let's go with those 14kish. In PVP it will be halfed by the battle spirit reduction. Left with a 7k damage over 5 seconds. And we haven't even brought in armor reduction or other stuff like maim and whatever. And let's not forget that DoTs aren't really what you'd call op in PVP, as they are purgable through cleanse, efficient purge and cloak plus shields prevent any crit.
I really really do not think the 2h is too OP in PVP, I think the others are too weak. But that also comes from the fact that they improve the second abilities of the skill trees, which is a very good skill on the 2h (crit rush) and on the 1h (deep slash, but the sword bonus is garbage..) and on the other weapons it affects skills which aren't really used that much.

Have you looked at how much dmg DK DoTs do? Their bread and butter skills do less dmg than a DoT you get for free by using this weapon. Its way overpowered. In fact, this DoT is so good that magicka builds will run it in PvP even w/o mighty passive.

I main a DK, I know. Which is why I also know that DoTs aren't the most useful thing in PVP (except for Duels).
And no, 99 of the magicka builds won't run crit rush for a simple reason: It costs a lot of stamina and with the upcoming CP-cap no one will be able to reduce its cost. Not for a DoT that can be countered classskillwise by 3/4 classes (cleanse, cloak, shields to some extent).

.

Dracane wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Pls ZoS, for the love of all gods, don't nerf the 2h. The 2h is more than fine. The problem lies within the other weapons being way too weak for what they are. Rework those, buff them, but do not start nerfing the 2h. Those weapons should all be so powerful and not less.

But they are not weak at all.

You get 1-piece weapon/spell damage bonus of 189 which is 50% more than you get with any normal set. For example on my Sorc I use 2-piece Torugs (Hat + Staff) for 129 spell if i get this staff I get 60 more spell damage AND free up a slot for another item.

The extra effect is just the cherry on the cake and should be something nice but nothing that pushes the weapon into OP territory, which is what happens with the 2H.

The extra spell damage/weapon damage bonus is really nice. I got the same thing as you with my sorc. But here's the thing: I think the main priority of this weapons should be the ability altering. And fact is, what they do now is seriously weak and/or unnecessary.
The 2h we saw first had 25% increase through the CPs. The damage is more at around 11k. But let's go with those 14kish. In PVP it will be halfed by the battle spirit reduction. Left with a 7k damage over 5 seconds. And we haven't even brought in armor reduction or other stuff like maim and whatever. And let's not forget that DoTs aren't really what you'd call op in PVP, as they are purgable through cleanse, efficient purge and cloak plus shields prevent any crit.
I really really do not think the 2h is too OP in PVP, I think the others are too weak. But that also comes from the fact that they improve the second abilities of the skill trees, which is a very good skill on the 2h (crit rush) and on the 1h (deep slash, but the sword bonus is garbage..) and on the other weapons it affects skills which aren't really used that much.

Invalid, because dual wield again gets it's normal superior damage boost+ extra weapon damage on both daggers.it's status quo, nothing changes.

What are you trying to tell me? Dual wield gives by default more spell/weapondamage than any other weapon. If it's fair? Topic to discuss. But that has nothing to do at all with the Maelstrom weapons. The Maelstrom daggers get 94 weapondamage bonus instead of the 189 bonus on the twohanded weapons. So it's pretty much fair in that regard I'd say.
2 Maelstrom daggers = 188 weapondamage.
Maelstrom Staff = 189 spelldamage.

Dracane · October 2015

Wollust wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Pls ZoS, for the love of all gods, don't nerf the 2h. The 2h is more than fine. The problem lies within the other weapons being way too weak for what they are. Rework those, buff them, but do not start nerfing the 2h. Those weapons should all be so powerful and not less.

But they are not weak at all.

You get 1-piece weapon/spell damage bonus of 189 which is 50% more than you get with any normal set. For example on my Sorc I use 2-piece Torugs (Hat + Staff) for 129 spell if i get this staff I get 60 more spell damage AND free up a slot for another item.

The extra effect is just the cherry on the cake and should be something nice but nothing that pushes the weapon into OP territory, which is what happens with the 2H.

The extra spell damage/weapon damage bonus is really nice. I got the same thing as you with my sorc. But here's the thing: I think the main priority of this weapons should be the ability altering. And fact is, what they do now is seriously weak and/or unnecessary.
The 2h we saw first had 25% increase through the CPs. The damage is more at around 11k. But let's go with those 14kish. In PVP it will be halfed by the battle spirit reduction. Left with a 7k damage over 5 seconds. And we haven't even brought in armor reduction or other stuff like maim and whatever. And let's not forget that DoTs aren't really what you'd call op in PVP, as they are purgable through cleanse, efficient purge and cloak plus shields prevent any crit.
I really really do not think the 2h is too OP in PVP, I think the others are too weak. But that also comes from the fact that they improve the second abilities of the skill trees, which is a very good skill on the 2h (crit rush) and on the 1h (deep slash, but the sword bonus is garbage..) and on the other weapons it affects skills which aren't really used that much.

Have you looked at how much dmg DK DoTs do? Their bread and butter skills do less dmg than a DoT you get for free by using this weapon. Its way overpowered. In fact, this DoT is so good that magicka builds will run it in PvP even w/o mighty passive.

I main a DK, I know. Which is why I also know that DoTs aren't the most useful thing in PVP (except for Duels).
And no, 99 of the magicka builds won't run crit rush for a simple reason: It costs a lot of stamina and with the upcoming CP-cap no one will be able to reduce its cost. Not for a DoT that can be countered classskillwise by 3/4 classes (cleanse, cloak, shields to some extent).

.

Dracane wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Pls ZoS, for the love of all gods, don't nerf the 2h. The 2h is more than fine. The problem lies within the other weapons being way too weak for what they are. Rework those, buff them, but do not start nerfing the 2h. Those weapons should all be so powerful and not less.

But they are not weak at all.

You get 1-piece weapon/spell damage bonus of 189 which is 50% more than you get with any normal set. For example on my Sorc I use 2-piece Torugs (Hat + Staff) for 129 spell if i get this staff I get 60 more spell damage AND free up a slot for another item.

The extra effect is just the cherry on the cake and should be something nice but nothing that pushes the weapon into OP territory, which is what happens with the 2H.

The extra spell damage/weapon damage bonus is really nice. I got the same thing as you with my sorc. But here's the thing: I think the main priority of this weapons should be the ability altering. And fact is, what they do now is seriously weak and/or unnecessary.
The 2h we saw first had 25% increase through the CPs. The damage is more at around 11k. But let's go with those 14kish. In PVP it will be halfed by the battle spirit reduction. Left with a 7k damage over 5 seconds. And we haven't even brought in armor reduction or other stuff like maim and whatever. And let's not forget that DoTs aren't really what you'd call op in PVP, as they are purgable through cleanse, efficient purge and cloak plus shields prevent any crit.
I really really do not think the 2h is too OP in PVP, I think the others are too weak. But that also comes from the fact that they improve the second abilities of the skill trees, which is a very good skill on the 2h (crit rush) and on the 1h (deep slash, but the sword bonus is garbage..) and on the other weapons it affects skills which aren't really used that much.

Invalid, because dual wield again gets it's normal superior damage boost+ extra weapon damage on both daggers.it's status quo, nothing changes.

What are you trying to tell me? Dual wield gives by default more spell/weapondamage than any other weapon. If it's fair? Topic to discuss. But that has nothing to do at all with the Maelstrom weapons. The Maelstrom daggers get 94 weapondamage bonus instead of the 189 bonus on the twohanded weapons. So it's pretty much fair in that regard I'd say.
2 Maelstrom daggers = 188 weapondamage.
Maelstrom Staff = 189 spelldamage.

Because 2 handed sword has a much higher base spell/weapon damage than staves either. Still no big difference after all. You get a 94 damage bonus per dagger, what are you even trying to tell me ?

Please don't tell me, that 1 single spell damage difference makes the staff strong in your opinion. Please tell me you don't

twistedmonk · October 2015

whoever came up with the Maelstrom Maul idea needs to be sacked.

Joy_Division · October 2015

OGLezard wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

I you @ScruffyWhiskers but I still do not like that melee weapons give more sd than staffs.......

Ok. Let's make them equal! I can live with that. Actually, I have always tried to make a destro staff work on my second bar and have failed every time. I would love it if they boosted the spell power. I'm for anything that boosts spell power.

If elected President of Tamriel the Magicka Rebalancing Act would be my first signature bill. Oh, and I would also throw all stam users into the Imperial Prison too.

I also think, that dual wield can gladly add the biggest amount of weapon damage, but destruction staves should definately add the biggest amount of spell power.

A staff is meant to channel your arcane power, but daggers do it better ? this can't be right.

so much this! Eric gave a bunk excuse as to why they did it that way.... When I asked him why WoE damage was so lack luster compared to the ever so popular PBAOE steel tornado, he said and I quote " we increased the duration of WoE so we feel it is pretty good right now. Besides if you stand in it you are going to melt *insert awkward chuckle*"

Excuse me ? You "melt when you stand in it" Eric is so cute
I mean, when I look at him, I melt. But he shouldn't compare himself to wall of elements.

^_^ I can feel the love!!! But yea my question to him during that eso live episode was "do you have any plans to make WoE more competitive compared to PBAOE that are harder to avoid considering you can side step out of WoE and only take one tic of damage" his reply to that question made me question everything about ESO

What took you so long?

@Joy_Division I dont know

I asked the same question you did on an ESO Live back in July and he basically gave the same reply. I don't think he has ever played a character that used a destruction staff.

Dracane · October 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

I you @ScruffyWhiskers but I still do not like that melee weapons give more sd than staffs.......

Ok. Let's make them equal! I can live with that. Actually, I have always tried to make a destro staff work on my second bar and have failed every time. I would love it if they boosted the spell power. I'm for anything that boosts spell power.

If elected President of Tamriel the Magicka Rebalancing Act would be my first signature bill. Oh, and I would also throw all stam users into the Imperial Prison too.

I also think, that dual wield can gladly add the biggest amount of weapon damage, but destruction staves should definately add the biggest amount of spell power.

A staff is meant to channel your arcane power, but daggers do it better ? this can't be right.

so much this! Eric gave a bunk excuse as to why they did it that way.... When I asked him why WoE damage was so lack luster compared to the ever so popular PBAOE steel tornado, he said and I quote " we increased the duration of WoE so we feel it is pretty good right now. Besides if you stand in it you are going to melt *insert awkward chuckle*"

Excuse me ? You "melt when you stand in it" Eric is so cute
I mean, when I look at him, I melt. But he shouldn't compare himself to wall of elements.

^_^ I can feel the love!!! But yea my question to him during that eso live episode was "do you have any plans to make WoE more competitive compared to PBAOE that are harder to avoid considering you can side step out of WoE and only take one tic of damage" his reply to that question made me question everything about ESO

What took you so long?

@Joy_Division I dont know

I asked the same question you did on an ESO Live back in July and he basically gave the same reply. I don't think he has ever played a character that used a destruction staff.

Maybe he hasn't played at all.

twistedmonk · October 2015

time for this Eric guy to go...

Dracane · October 2015

It's no surprise, we have so many unused or underused abilities in the game because they are lackluster or underwhelming.

Maulkin · October 2015

twistedmonk wrote: »

time for this Eric guy to go...

Call me old fashioned, but it's kinda cruel asking for a guy to be sacked from his job

It's probably not even his remit, he's in charge of combat not itemization.

Dracane · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

twistedmonk wrote: »

time for this Eric guy to go...

Call me old fashioned, but it's kinda cruel asking for a guy to be sacked from his job

It's probably not even his remit, he's in charge of combat not itemization.

That's true though. I myself would never ask for this. (Basically because Eric is the sexiest employee on Zenimax, would miss him in ESO live)

But maybe he would be better off as someone who makes advertisment for the game (again, because his face is good to represent the game and the studio etc.) A lead combat designer MUST be experienced, he must try everything out himself. Which is clearly not the case here. But then again, this is not our decision and I'm the last to question this.
As long as they get things right, I don't mind.

Xeven · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

twistedmonk wrote: »

time for this Eric guy to go...

Call me old fashioned, but it's kinda cruel asking for a guy to be sacked from his job

It's probably not even his remit, he's in charge of combat not itemization.

What do I know, but I think Eric is probably holding all the teams together.

I bet hes f***ing swamped.

Joy_Division · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

twistedmonk wrote: »

time for this Eric guy to go...

Call me old fashioned, but it's kinda cruel asking for a guy to be sacked from his job

It's probably not even his remit, he's in charge of combat not itemization.

He doesn't need to be fired nor should he. I think he and the combat team test in ways that do not correspond to how more experienced players play. This creates problems in a multiplayer player game because we compete against each other. It's one thing to use bad skills in Skyrim because in the end, it doesn't matter: you will defeat Alduin. In ESO, the average player was has 93 CPs and has not devoted much theory-crafting is depending on the designers to make all the skill choices reasonably effective. When they try to use elemental wall as an AOE and then get Rekt because that skill literally does not make my health bar move, it is going to create frustration since the skills you use do matter.

Tyr · October 2015

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

You're joking right? What PvE build in their right mind would use crit rush as a source of DPS? Meanwhile Blockade of Elements is one of the best AoE DoT's in game, it does great damage and now gives free weaving damage. The Maelstrom 2h weapons will only ever be used in PvP or by shoddy PvE quest builds. All of the stamina weapons are looking to be insanely weak in PvE with the exception of MAYBE the bow. All in all, all of the new unique weapons are extremely lack luster, as well as most of the unique armor sets that drop from them. There are simply better sets that already exist in game for the most part. Truly disappointing.

Oh no, if the numbers shown in the tooltip are correct, then 2 hand maelstrom will be very useful in PvE, too. You can Wrecking Blow from far enough away to charge and increase the distance again during the next cast time, not to mention not every boss just stands in one place, so this makes Crit Rush actually a useful ability then.

From what I saw, the Maelstrom dagger looks pretty good as well, clearly intended to be used for Flurry spam.

The master 1h's only increase the damage of your next casted Stamina based DoT which is only Rending Slashes, so it forces you to use two skill to utilize a single enchant. Not to mention flurry (and wrecking blow for that matter)is only utilized by stam sorcs since they lack a class abilitiy to spam. No templar, nb, or soon to be DK would use flurry over jabs/surprise/incoming stam whip. It would be a massive DPS loss just to utilize these underwhelming weapons.

And in a DPS situation, using crit rush is extremely lack luster. It locks you into a long winded animation that prevents you from continuing your rotation, and requires you to back away from your target to cast, preventing all damage done again. Maybe it'll be nice in Maelstrom, but I really don't see the point in using an item from a dungeon, that only helps you do that same dungeon better. In trials or other 4 mans, no competitive build is going to use any of these weapons with the exception of the Resto+Destro staff, and *maybe* the bow, if it operates the way I think it does. Obviously I'm speaking mainly from a min max stand point.

Well I actually agree with you that it won't be useful for trials and most 4-man dungeons...but I think that's the point. There are no trials or 4-man dungeons in this DLC so the exact perfect use would be in the solo arena where it is very effective doing damage when switching phases and jumping from mob to mob. I don't think most traditional stam DPS builds will be able to be as effective in the arena because of the need to constantly move and switch targets, so the Master weapons will be the best for this particular leaderboard.

ScruffyWhiskers · October 2015

Combat in this game is awesome. Best PvP combat of any MMOG that I have ever played. Hand's down winner.

Zheg · October 2015

Tyr wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

You're joking right? What PvE build in their right mind would use crit rush as a source of DPS? Meanwhile Blockade of Elements is one of the best AoE DoT's in game, it does great damage and now gives free weaving damage. The Maelstrom 2h weapons will only ever be used in PvP or by shoddy PvE quest builds. All of the stamina weapons are looking to be insanely weak in PvE with the exception of MAYBE the bow. All in all, all of the new unique weapons are extremely lack luster, as well as most of the unique armor sets that drop from them. There are simply better sets that already exist in game for the most part. Truly disappointing.

Oh no, if the numbers shown in the tooltip are correct, then 2 hand maelstrom will be very useful in PvE, too. You can Wrecking Blow from far enough away to charge and increase the distance again during the next cast time, not to mention not every boss just stands in one place, so this makes Crit Rush actually a useful ability then.

From what I saw, the Maelstrom dagger looks pretty good as well, clearly intended to be used for Flurry spam.

The master 1h's only increase the damage of your next casted Stamina based DoT which is only Rending Slashes, so it forces you to use two skill to utilize a single enchant. Not to mention flurry (and wrecking blow for that matter)is only utilized by stam sorcs since they lack a class abilitiy to spam. No templar, nb, or soon to be DK would use flurry over jabs/surprise/incoming stam whip. It would be a massive DPS loss just to utilize these underwhelming weapons.

And in a DPS situation, using crit rush is extremely lack luster. It locks you into a long winded animation that prevents you from continuing your rotation, and requires you to back away from your target to cast, preventing all damage done again. Maybe it'll be nice in Maelstrom, but I really don't see the point in using an item from a dungeon, that only helps you do that same dungeon better. In trials or other 4 mans, no competitive build is going to use any of these weapons with the exception of the Resto+Destro staff, and *maybe* the bow, if it operates the way I think it does. Obviously I'm speaking mainly from a min max stand point.

Well I actually agree with you that it won't be useful for trials and most 4-man dungeons...but I think that's the point. There are no trials or 4-man dungeons in this DLC so the exact perfect use would be in the solo arena where it is very effective doing damage when switching phases and jumping from mob to mob. I don't think most traditional stam DPS builds will be able to be as effective in the arena because of the need to constantly move and switch targets, so the Master weapons will be the best for this particular leaderboard.

I disagree with gill, at least until the dual wield weps have actually been tested. Maybe he forgot that biting jabs is a stam dot, or that dk's embers and breath might end up upping total dps with the enchantment in effect?

Even though the dps is lackluster, I'd be interested in seeing how the enchant affects the dmg for quick cloak and thundering presence. These are classified as melee since they proc ravagers, but I'd be curious to see if the enchant works on them as well. Could also try sneaking in a poison injection. If jabs benefits from this, I can easily stamplars just alternating flurry and jabs. Bottom line, it shouldn't be discarded as quickly as it was until it's actually been tested

For 2hander, meh, I can see it being derpy in pve, but it's also not hard to just walk backwards while wb spamming until you're in range to crit rush.

IxskullzxI · October 2015

This has to be a joke. Are ZOS really that stupid. Let's just remove magicka as a resource and get it over with already. 14k over 5 seconds on crit rush? I'd like to know where ZOS buys their drugs from. It must be some good ***. 14k over 5 sec is 2800 dps. Thats more than dk's whip hits for now. You'd be better off using the 2h and crit charge as a magicka dk than you would be spamming your whip. GTFO ZOS.

Wollust · October 2015

Dracane wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Pls ZoS, for the love of all gods, don't nerf the 2h. The 2h is more than fine. The problem lies within the other weapons being way too weak for what they are. Rework those, buff them, but do not start nerfing the 2h. Those weapons should all be so powerful and not less.

But they are not weak at all.

You get 1-piece weapon/spell damage bonus of 189 which is 50% more than you get with any normal set. For example on my Sorc I use 2-piece Torugs (Hat + Staff) for 129 spell if i get this staff I get 60 more spell damage AND free up a slot for another item.

The extra effect is just the cherry on the cake and should be something nice but nothing that pushes the weapon into OP territory, which is what happens with the 2H.

The extra spell damage/weapon damage bonus is really nice. I got the same thing as you with my sorc. But here's the thing: I think the main priority of this weapons should be the ability altering. And fact is, what they do now is seriously weak and/or unnecessary.
The 2h we saw first had 25% increase through the CPs. The damage is more at around 11k. But let's go with those 14kish. In PVP it will be halfed by the battle spirit reduction. Left with a 7k damage over 5 seconds. And we haven't even brought in armor reduction or other stuff like maim and whatever. And let's not forget that DoTs aren't really what you'd call op in PVP, as they are purgable through cleanse, efficient purge and cloak plus shields prevent any crit.
I really really do not think the 2h is too OP in PVP, I think the others are too weak. But that also comes from the fact that they improve the second abilities of the skill trees, which is a very good skill on the 2h (crit rush) and on the 1h (deep slash, but the sword bonus is garbage..) and on the other weapons it affects skills which aren't really used that much.

Have you looked at how much dmg DK DoTs do? Their bread and butter skills do less dmg than a DoT you get for free by using this weapon. Its way overpowered. In fact, this DoT is so good that magicka builds will run it in PvP even w/o mighty passive.

I main a DK, I know. Which is why I also know that DoTs aren't the most useful thing in PVP (except for Duels).
And no, 99 of the magicka builds won't run crit rush for a simple reason: It costs a lot of stamina and with the upcoming CP-cap no one will be able to reduce its cost. Not for a DoT that can be countered classskillwise by 3/4 classes (cleanse, cloak, shields to some extent).

.

Dracane wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Pls ZoS, for the love of all gods, don't nerf the 2h. The 2h is more than fine. The problem lies within the other weapons being way too weak for what they are. Rework those, buff them, but do not start nerfing the 2h. Those weapons should all be so powerful and not less.

But they are not weak at all.

You get 1-piece weapon/spell damage bonus of 189 which is 50% more than you get with any normal set. For example on my Sorc I use 2-piece Torugs (Hat + Staff) for 129 spell if i get this staff I get 60 more spell damage AND free up a slot for another item.

The extra effect is just the cherry on the cake and should be something nice but nothing that pushes the weapon into OP territory, which is what happens with the 2H.

The extra spell damage/weapon damage bonus is really nice. I got the same thing as you with my sorc. But here's the thing: I think the main priority of this weapons should be the ability altering. And fact is, what they do now is seriously weak and/or unnecessary.
The 2h we saw first had 25% increase through the CPs. The damage is more at around 11k. But let's go with those 14kish. In PVP it will be halfed by the battle spirit reduction. Left with a 7k damage over 5 seconds. And we haven't even brought in armor reduction or other stuff like maim and whatever. And let's not forget that DoTs aren't really what you'd call op in PVP, as they are purgable through cleanse, efficient purge and cloak plus shields prevent any crit.
I really really do not think the 2h is too OP in PVP, I think the others are too weak. But that also comes from the fact that they improve the second abilities of the skill trees, which is a very good skill on the 2h (crit rush) and on the 1h (deep slash, but the sword bonus is garbage..) and on the other weapons it affects skills which aren't really used that much.

Invalid, because dual wield again gets it's normal superior damage boost+ extra weapon damage on both daggers.it's status quo, nothing changes.

What are you trying to tell me? Dual wield gives by default more spell/weapondamage than any other weapon. If it's fair? Topic to discuss. But that has nothing to do at all with the Maelstrom weapons. The Maelstrom daggers get 94 weapondamage bonus instead of the 189 bonus on the twohanded weapons. So it's pretty much fair in that regard I'd say.
2 Maelstrom daggers = 188 weapondamage.
Maelstrom Staff = 189 spelldamage.

Because 2 handed sword has a much higher base spell/weapon damage than staves either. Still no big difference after all. You get a 94 damage bonus per dagger, what are you even trying to tell me ?

Please don't tell me, that 1 single spell damage difference makes the staff strong in your opinion. Please tell me you don't

When did I ever mention the staff being good? The spelldamage you get from it is nice yes. But that shouldn't be the main point of the weapon. The main point should be the ability altering and the one the destro staff has is just garbage and needs a rework or a buff. That's what I said and nothing else. Still no idea why my point was invalid in your opinion.