NEW champion point system - lol!

gashuffer75 · October 2015

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

gashuffer75 wrote: »

Is that 501 total? Or per tree? I assume this has been answered....but haven't sifted through pages of comments to find it.

501 total

Whoa that is really low. I play maybe 6 hours a week and just hit 230 and am VR11.

Sureshawt · October 2015

Grunim wrote: »

I am utterly disgusted by the whole champion point system, I wish it would just be abolished plain and simple.

I used to think this way as well but have grown to like the build diversity CP allows. Granted this could have been accomplished differently but whats done is done and I doubt they will give up on it.

On the bright side all the elements of the CP system can be adjusted as well as XP rates. If the new system does not deliver on their stated intention as a catch up mechanism I'm sure adjustments will be made.

Kungfu · October 2015

The CP system is an excellent end-game way to grow characters. Absolutely.

I'd bet a paycheck that ZOS let its original developer go and now, instead of digging in to UPDATE it, or ADJUST it, they're probably just fumbling around trying to RUSH through changes and putting a cap on it because it's just easier to stop the flow than it might be to simply change the values (a)by which the points are gathered and (b)of the benefits those points offer.

The cap is a lazy and poorly-planned change very likely based upon some executive in the company pushing it to go with Orsinium with a near-blind visibility on the whole issue.

drogon1 · October 2015

Jura23 wrote: »

drogon1 wrote: »

Root problem with the CP system is that it's a PvE progression thing used for PvP progression. ZoS in their wisdom have decided to reward players who can endlessly grind PvE mobs ad infinitum - with PvP power. It's not a good recipe for success.

Making matters worse is that new players will be hosed. Increasing CP caps with each season still leaves the starting player at ZERO CP, having to climb a cliff to PvP on par with older players. PvE acquired CP should be no part of the game's PvP.

Real PvP progression should not be the CP system - as it currently stands - but rather the Alliance War Rank system. Expand the skills and benefits of Alliance War Ranks, and then remove CP from PvP - that's a winning formula.

Thing I love about ESO and which I hated about every other MMO I played was that I had to completely change my gear and build when I wanted to switch beetween PvE and PvP. I dont have to do that here and I dig it. I love the fact that fighting NPCs is basically the same thing as fighting players. And I think they should stick to that idea no matter what.

Seriously?

Most still swap gears and skills between PvP and PvE - if you're min/maxing. Some skills are obviously more geared to PvP than PvE, as well as gear (shield breaker?).

Rewarding players with PvP power because they like to PvE faceroll zombies for hours on end is bad game design - and having to require some players to swap some gear to prevent something like this is peanuts.

Jura23 · October 2015

Kungfu wrote: »

The CP system is an excellent end-game way to grow characters. Absolutely.

I'd bet a paycheck that ZOS let its original developer go and now, instead of digging in to UPDATE it, or ADJUST it, they're probably just fumbling around trying to RUSH through changes and putting a cap on it because it's just easier to stop the flow than it might be to simply change the values (a)by which the points are gathered and (b)of the benefits those points offer.

The cap is a lazy and poorly-planned change very likely based upon some executive in the company pushing it to go with Orsinium with a near-blind visibility on the whole issue.

I agree. Chance to get that 1 point each day is actually perfect reason to log in the game and play it once you try everything else in the game, get the gear etc. If they také it away, lots of ppl will lose interest and quit like I did in some other games already. Of course unless they keep releasing DLCs every 3 months, but thats unrealistic. You have to have something to keep players interested in the meantime. They had it and now are getting rid of it.

Jura23 · October 2015

drogon1 wrote: »

Seriously?

Most still swap gears and skills between PvP and PvE - if you're min/maxing. Some skills are obviously more geared to PvP than PvE, as well as gear (shield breaker?).

Rewarding players with PvP power because they like to PvE faceroll zombies for hours on end is bad game design - and having to require some players to swap some gear to prevent something like this is peanuts.

No, Im not min maxing and most ppl arent. Id even dare to say that most paying customers arent, but thats something I cant prove.

reften · October 2015

Zos is bad at math. I've been saying this since I read those notes.

I guess...like they say, 4 out of 3 American's have problems with fractions

Rook_Master · October 2015

This is absolutely disgusting. People with CPs from 338-500 should not be penalized under the new cap. The max cost for any CP should always be 400k. The only adjustments should be lowering the XP for gaining lower ranks.

This only rewards people who grinded before the cap was in place.

I am sickened thinking about these changes going live.

NewBlacksmurf · October 2015

Here is, in my opinion, the simple approach

-Keep the Cap at 501 (until the next wave)
-Keep the exp required for each where it is now (not PTS but live as of 10/7/15)
-apply a permanent enlightenment bonus for anyone less than 400 CPs
-use enlightenment at largely increased rates so if someone is below 100, maybe they get a 300% boost, if over 100 but below 200 they get a 250% - 200% boost, if above 200 but below 300 give a 200% - 150% boost and from 300 - 400 give a 150% - 100% boost, and 400 - 499 maybe a 100% to 50% boost but once you hit 500, there should be no enlightenment boost just a normal bonus and the same exp rates.

I have no idea why they are making this harder than it needs to be

Cazzy · October 2015

I may be a big boobed blonde but I swear I'm not stereotypically dumb. However, can someone clarify this system for me? Is the experience requirement going to increase with every CP earned after 338? Or is it consistent XP only higher?

Didn't they change it recently so CP cost less XP? If so, I missed the start of that change and will now be smack bang in the middle of the 'burned zone', as I've only just got to 200 CP.

I'm confused by all this tbh

ChaosWotan · October 2015

"The max cost for any CP should always be 400k. The only adjustments should be lowering the XP for gaining lower ranks."

Agree

Sausage · October 2015

They always want to reward grinders and no-lifers, so I think the last CPs after 338 are for them, imho, they deserve it, or just simply attempt that we use boosters. Come on, they did it because of boosters.

BalticBlues · October 2015

The answer to all problems could be so simple:

If ZOS would just switch to a reverse logarithmic reward system (red line in image below)
- there would be no need for a cap because all rewards run towards (but never reach) a max point
- people would automatically catch up because of the steeper pitch on lower CP levels
- the system could be extended at anytime by just defining a higher max point

FireCowCommando · October 2015

Kungfu wrote: »

The CP system is an excellent end-game way to grow characters. Absolutely.

I'd bet a paycheck that ZOS let its original developer go and now, instead of digging in to UPDATE it, or ADJUST it, they're probably just fumbling around trying to RUSH through changes and putting a cap on it because it's just easier to stop the flow than it might be to simply change the values (a)by which the points are gathered and (b)of the benefits those points offer.

The cap is a lazy and poorly-planned change very likely based upon some executive in the company pushing it to go with Orsinium with a near-blind visibility on the whole issue.

Actually you dont need to bet your paycheck, the original designer of the champion point system left the company months ago.

FireCowCommando · October 2015

Cazzy wrote: »

I may be a big boobed blonde but I swear I'm not stereotypically dumb. However, can someone clarify this system for me? Is the experience requirement going to increase with every CP earned after 338? Or is it consistent XP only higher?

Didn't they change it recently so CP cost less XP? If so, I missed the start of that change and will now be smack bang in the middle of the 'burned zone', as I've only just got to 200 CP.

I'm confused by all this tbh

The cost of champion points will be cheaper then the standard 400,000 EXP for anyone below 338, every champion point above that amount will be more then 400,000 exp.

It scales up about 1,090 exp per CP after 338, and scales down 1,090 exp per CP below 338.

Paulington wrote: »

I've added a lot to the spreadsheet and I think an important thing to realise is that whilst the XP required per CP is more than 400k after 338 CP, it is faster to get to 501 from zero CP under the new system than the old system.

Pre-2.2 cumulative XP from 0 CP to 501 CP: 200,400,000 XP.
Post-2.2 cumulative XP from 0 CP to 501 CP: 153,010,170 XP.

This means you need to gain 47 million XP less under the new system than the old. However this doesn't take into account those currently above 338 CP.

XP required 338-501 new system: 79,790,187 XP.
XP required 338-501 old system: 65,200,000 XP.

It is slower in the new system above 338 CP however before that it's a lot quicker.

If you are currently around the ~340 CP mark, do some grinding. You're better off getting to 501 CP under the current system than the new one.

J2JMC · October 2015

gashuffer75 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

gashuffer75 wrote: »

Is that 501 total? Or per tree? I assume this has been answered....but haven't sifted through pages of comments to find it.

501 total

Whoa that is really low. I play maybe 6 hours a week and just hit 230 and am VR11.

That's not even possible. Even if you were enlightened for all 230 cp that's still 23,000,000 xp. More than enough to be v14 pre 1.7 or v16 post 1.7

RatedChaotic · October 2015

Shouldve left it all alone. People cried for a cap, they got it. Now they are crying about the cap. Shouldve left it alone. There was nothing wrong with the cps in the first place. Instead of comin here crying about cps. You shouldve been playing.

sztartureb17_ESO · October 2015

There should not be the champion system at all. Why not simply just remove it? Or remove it totally from PvP?

Saltypretzels · October 2015

Did any of your whiners even LOOK at that graph I already posted? The XP costs are not going up by that much.

nimander99 · October 2015

Just remember community; you get what you ask for, and everyone cried and bitched and moaned about CP's not being fair and everyone kills me in PVP because they have 1000 CP's...

Well, here is ZoS's answer, and we are now complaining about this?

From day one in literally hundreds of posts I have asked that CP's be separated from PVP and left completely alone in PVE... now we have this, how wonderful

RatedChaotic · October 2015

sztartureb17_ESO wrote: »

There should not be the champion system at all. Why not simply just remove it? Or remove it totally from PvP?

Well I like continued progression on my toon. What will happen when I'm all leveled and geared up? I get bored and move to another game.

Personofsecrets · October 2015

@ZOS_RichLambert

If there is a cap, then it doesn't matter if cp is easy to get. Making cp cost more @ a cp level under the cap just reinforces those who are already leading to stay leading. This is a moral hazard in that people will have to do more work to catch up to those that didn't have to do as much work for their cp.

BalticBlues · October 2015

sztartureb17_ESO wrote: »

There should not be the champion system at all.
Why not simply just remove it?

Indeed. Why not just play the game because it is FUN?
I also am not interested in CP points at all.

I spend the CPs because of the requirement to stay competitive,
but I rather would like to play without CPs and all the clumsy messages and interfaces.

Without CPs, the game also would be easier to balance.
For me, the progression is about trying and developing new skills and skill strategies, not CPs.

nimander99 · October 2015

RatedChaotic wrote: »

sztartureb17_ESO wrote: »

There should not be the champion system at all. Why not simply just remove it? Or remove it totally from PvP?

Well I like continued progression on my toon. What will happen when I'm all leveled and geared up? I get bored and move to another game.

^^ So well said, this is why I have loved the CP system since day one and will continue to love it 4 years from now when my char is still progressing.

I've said it before and I'll say it again "Nothing makes me leave an MMO faster than hitting cap"

Personofsecrets · October 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert

If there is a cap, then it doesn't matter if cp is easy to get. Making cp cost more @ a cp level under the cap just reinforces those who are already leading to stay leading. This is a moral hazard in that people will have to do more work to catch up to those that didn't have to do as much work for their cp.

actually, never mind, I saw @smacx250 chart, and you've done the right thing. good job.

Troneon · October 2015

They also never took away the CP for those that exploited a lot in the first week of CP....

Diamond_10 · October 2015

why make it slower at 338 instead of at 501? lol

Moonshadow66 · October 2015

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

What will happen to enlightenment?

I guess we'll be sitting in the dark for a long, long time^^

Jura23 · October 2015

Diamond_10 wrote: »

why make it slower at 338 instead of at 501? lol

Because the average on PC is 94 CP and the % of players with more than 501 is so low that it can be practically ignored.

Yeah, Im playing devils advocate here and I enjoy it.

zornyan · October 2015

BalticBlues wrote: »

sztartureb17_ESO wrote: »

There should not be the champion system at all.
Why not simply just remove it?

Indeed. Why not just play the game because it is FUN?
I also am not interested in CP points at all.

I spend the CPs because of the requirement to stay competitive,
but I rather would like to play without CPs and all the clumsy messages and interfaces.

Without CPs, the game also would be easier to balance.
For me, the progression is about trying and developing new skills and skill strategies, not CPs.

Because the forums and players demanded the cp system, players moaned like kids that they wanted it, in fact zos said the system was not ready to be implemented, as vet ranks were to be removed at the same time, they said the systems were never designed to be run along side each other, and that various power creep issues will arrive.

Guess what? People still demanded it.

Don't blame zos, blame everyone that plays the game.