Maintenance for the week of February 23:
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
· [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
· [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for maintenance – February 23, 9:00 UTC (4:00AM EST) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST)
· [COMPLETE] ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – February 23, 4:00AM EST (9:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EST (17:00 UTC)
The maintenance is complete, and the PTS is now available.
so deflating
Hamrb
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all I wanted from this update, is cross alliance grouping. I still cant invite my guild members from another alliance to a raid or 4 man dungeon, so annoying
Founder of Sheogorath's Mortals NA PC
Exiled Lannister EP Sorc dps
Hamrb EP Temp healer or dps
l mufasa l EP Stamblade
Fat Tyrion EP DK dps
Mia Stone AD DK tank or dps
Finn the Altmer AD Nightmage
Launch Pad McQuack DC DK DPS
Sterk Stonecrusher EP Stamplar
-Wabba Jack DC Stam Sorc
Sheo's Sweeper DC Magicka Temp
Exiled Lannister EP Sorc dps
Hamrb EP Temp healer or dps
l mufasa l EP Stamblade
Fat Tyrion EP DK dps
Mia Stone AD DK tank or dps
Finn the Altmer AD Nightmage
Launch Pad McQuack DC DK DPS
Sterk Stonecrusher EP Stamplar
-Wabba Jack DC Stam Sorc
Sheo's Sweeper DC Magicka Temp
2
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MisterJimothy✭✭✭It's only though the LFG tool that you can do it. Gina said they'll look into manually inviting from other alliances.0 -
Hamrb✭✭✭✭"in the future"
I hate to do this, cuz I don't know much about game design, but how much harder would adding that feature be. sighEdited by Hamrb on October 6, 2015 7:09PMFounder of Sheogorath's Mortals NA PC
Exiled Lannister EP Sorc dps
Hamrb EP Temp healer or dps
l mufasa l EP Stamblade
Fat Tyrion EP DK dps
Mia Stone AD DK tank or dps
Finn the Altmer AD Nightmage
Launch Pad McQuack DC DK DPS
Sterk Stonecrusher EP Stamplar
-Wabba Jack DC Stam Sorc
Sheo's Sweeper DC Magicka Temp1 -
ZOS_GinaBrunoCommunity Manager"in the future"
I hate to do this, cuz I don't know much about game design, but how much harder would adding that feature be. sigh
You'd be surprised...
As @MisterJimothy mentioned, it is something we're looking to implement in the future, even though it isn't currently possible. Gina Bruno
Principal Creator Engagement Manager
Dev Tracker | Service Alerts | ESO Twitter | My Twitter1 -
Hamrb✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »"in the future"
I hate to do this, cuz I don't know much about game design, but how much harder would adding that feature be. sigh
You'd be surprised... As @MisterJimothy mentioned, it is something we're looking to implement in the future, even though it isn't currently possible.
thanks for the response, :-)Founder of Sheogorath's Mortals NA PC
Exiled Lannister EP Sorc dps
Hamrb EP Temp healer or dps
l mufasa l EP Stamblade
Fat Tyrion EP DK dps
Mia Stone AD DK tank or dps
Finn the Altmer AD Nightmage
Launch Pad McQuack DC DK DPS
Sterk Stonecrusher EP Stamplar
-Wabba Jack DC Stam Sorc
Sheo's Sweeper DC Magicka Temp0 -
MisterJimothy✭✭✭"in the future"
I hate to do this, cuz I don't know much about game design, but how much harder would adding that feature be. sigh
I'm going to share an XKCD that answers your question, and @ZOS_GinaBruno, this might be a good response to others when asked about game development in general.
http://xkcd.com/1425/
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s7732425ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭MisterJimothy wrote: »"in the future"
I hate to do this, cuz I don't know much about game design, but how much harder would adding that feature be. sigh
I'm going to share an XKCD that answers your question, and @ZOS_GinaBruno, this might be a good response to others when asked about game development in general.
http://xkcd.com/1425/
This is a horrible reference to use because it shows you know nothing about programming. ZOS isn't trying to design a computer that can interpret things as a human would. They are trying to put 4 players into an INSTANCED space, and this is an easy problem (and has been solved by every other game out there). Faction should not be an issue, but in hindsight, ZOS made a poor design decision way back in the day that's now biting them in the butt.2 -
KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
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The design decision was fine, allowing cross-faction groups simply makes a mockery of having factions in PVE at all.s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »MisterJimothy wrote: »"in the future"
I hate to do this, cuz I don't know much about game design, but how much harder would adding that feature be. sigh
I'm going to share an XKCD that answers your question, and @ZOS_GinaBruno, this might be a good response to others when asked about game development in general.
http://xkcd.com/1425/
This is a horrible reference to use because it shows you know nothing about programming. ZOS isn't trying to design a computer that can interpret things as a human would. They are trying to put 4 players into an INSTANCED space, and this is an easy problem (and has been solved by every other game out there). Faction should not be an issue, but in hindsight, ZOS made a poor design decision way back in the day that's now biting them in the butt.
ZOS, make it easy, scrap factions outside PVP, problem solved! The factions have hurt PVE from the very beginning, splitting the player-base into three and causing the problems with people finding groups in the first place.
Edited by KerinKor on October 6, 2015 7:49PM1 -
s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »This is a horrible reference to use because it shows you know nothing about programming. ZOS isn't trying to design a computer that can interpret things as a human would. They are trying to put 4 players into an INSTANCED space, and this is an easy problem (and has been solved by every other game out there). Faction should not be an issue, but in hindsight, ZOS made a poor design decision way back in the day that's now biting them in the butt.
Actually, I think that reference was *perfect*, because you aren't the game programmer and have NO CLUE WHATSOEVER what's involved in making this work. Yes, on the surface, you might think this is easy to do, but how do you set up the group? How do you make sure the group can't communicate cross faction *outside* of the instance, and only exists as a group while inside the instance?
That's a relatively trivial thing to do when you're using a group finder which will automatically assemble the group when it transports you to the instance, but making your *own* group adds several orders of magnitude more questions to resolve in order to put it together. I can think of a half dozen other questions and issues which apply once you allow players to form their *own* groups cross faction, and that's just basic common design sense without even thinking about the specific code complexity involved.
So, yes, I think it *is* a complex issue, and you should let the game programmers and designers do their jobs without trying to second guess them. Do I think it's resolvable? Sure. Gina even said they're trying to figure out how to do it, so it's on the radar. Probably won't even take those 10 years and a research team, but it's certainly not a trivial thing to do.
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lonewolf26✭✭✭✭✭Complexity isn't a function that's wholly dependent on whether or not a thing is possible. Complexity in implementing a new feature that was not part of the initial design may also involve adding functionality that is not present so as to guard against inconsistent outcomes. Some are perceivable. For instance it would be inconsistent to form a cross faction group for PvP. Those checks are typically easy. What may be hard are those checks that depends on the state of a system or targets a section of code that is more difficult to model or unit test. One example, in general, would be guarding against race conditions using something that may or may not be thread safe.
If something is termed hard, it may be due to one of these situations where you need to change implementations, improve tuning, or worse case rearchitect. All of these require coding and QA effort. Both are finite resources when getting a software update out on time. Just some insight into software development. Just because a thing is possible, doesn't make it easy.
I'm fine with an incremental rollout of cross faction grouping. It limits risk, while working towards a very valuable feature.Edited by lonewolf26 on October 6, 2015 7:56PM1 -
MisterBigglesworth✭✭✭✭✭
✭s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »MisterJimothy wrote: »"in the future"
I hate to do this, cuz I don't know much about game design, but how much harder would adding that feature be. sigh
I'm going to share an XKCD that answers your question, and @ZOS_GinaBruno, this might be a good response to others when asked about game development in general.
http://xkcd.com/1425/
This is a horrible reference to use because it shows you know nothing about programming. ZOS isn't trying to design a computer that can interpret things as a human would. They are trying to put 4 players into an INSTANCED space, and this is an easy problem (and has been solved by every other game out there). Faction should not be an issue, but in hindsight, ZOS made a poor design decision way back in the day that's now biting them in the butt.
The reason you can't simply copy-paste code from somewhere else is that grouping within the same faction allows you do switch over to the group leader's phase, but if a differenct alliance player were to do this they would be able port into a non veteran version of the world (or veteran version of the world) where quest givers could conceievably be available, offering quests with gold and gear rewards that have the wrong scaling for them. That's just one aspect that makes this more complicated than it may seem from a distance.Edited by MisterBigglesworth on October 6, 2015 8:35PMReally we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.1 -
Garbrac✭✭✭s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »MisterJimothy wrote: »"in the future"
I hate to do this, cuz I don't know much about game design, but how much harder would adding that feature be. sigh
I'm going to share an XKCD that answers your question, and @ZOS_GinaBruno, this might be a good response to others when asked about game development in general.
http://xkcd.com/1425/
This is a horrible reference to use because it shows you know nothing about programming. ZOS isn't trying to design a computer that can interpret things as a human would. They are trying to put 4 players into an INSTANCED space, and this is an easy problem (and has been solved by every other game out there). Faction should not be an issue, but in hindsight, ZOS made a poor design decision way back in the day that's now biting them in the butt.
It's actually somewhat accurate. Granted it's speaking of completely different topics.
I wouldn't say ZOS made a poor design decision, I personally think they should have had the factions locked down more, not allowing races to be open to everyone, not letting people do the other faction storylines etc. It completely ruins any alliance price a player would have found while leveling.
ESO is designed from the core to not allow opposing factions to not group up or ever see each other.
Cross-Alliance isn't as easy as - take current group make-instance - there is a lot that goes into it, checking locations, availability. For example, the "teleport to player" option that we all take advantage of every chance we need it, would be a pain in the butt to work around, it's not as simple as add "if faction != Player_faction disable option" There are tons of checks, procedures that need to be called and verified.
The LFG tool cross-alliance is the first step to allowing us a full cross-alliance feature, but like I said, there is a ton of work that needs to be done before it's possible. So I wouldn't expect it soon, but it's coming (hopefully).1 -
MisterJimothy✭✭✭s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »MisterJimothy wrote: »"in the future"
I hate to do this, cuz I don't know much about game design, but how much harder would adding that feature be. sigh
I'm going to share an XKCD that answers your question, and @ZOS_GinaBruno, this might be a good response to others when asked about game development in general.
http://xkcd.com/1425/
This is a horrible reference to use because it shows you know nothing about programming. ZOS isn't trying to design a computer that can interpret things as a human would. They are trying to put 4 players into an INSTANCED space, and this is an easy problem (and has been solved by every other game out there). Faction should not be an issue, but in hindsight, ZOS made a poor design decision way back in the day that's now biting them in the butt.
Oh. My apologies. I didn't know you knew me, what I know, or that you know exactly how to implement this into ESO.
Sarcasm aside, I feel like you misinterpreted the comic. I wasn't suggesting that ZOS is doing exactly what the picture suggests. That's just silly.
The point was to illustrate to the OP that simple questions or requests may be much more complicated once thought out. Also, actual programming is simply one, and quite often the easiest aspect of the difficulties you can face in any development environment.
Furthermore, groups and how they are put together outside the LFG tool do more than just put someone in an instanced space as you suggest. As the game currently stands, you can group with anyone in your alliance, from anywhere. If you spread that across all alliances, you can't just leave the grouping mechanics as is. You'd have to make sure you prevent anyone traveling to a player in another alliance and make sure every single scenario is covered.
What about other things affected by grouping, such as the map?
Do you show where your other group members are?
Sure, the AD I just grouped with is in Auridon, but not my version of Auridon. Do you let me travel to my Auridon?
Do you prevent travel to player all together when cross alliance?
Is this actually easy to code into the game?
What about Cyrodill? What if I'm in Cyrodill and someone wants to do the pledge? Can they group with me in Cyrodill, then seeing my location on a map, relay that to someone in their alliance in PvP?
Sure, the actual programming might be easy, but as I said, it's not the only part.
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SirAndy✭✭✭✭✭
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@GarbracESO is designed from the core to not allow opposing factions to ... ever see each other.
Except for that one time during late (closed) beta when you could see VR players from other factions on Bleakrock Isle.
You weren't able to interact with them (and i'm not sure they could see you) but i wouldn't be surprised if ESO was at some point actually designed to allow for this.
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[quote="ZOS_GinaBruno;2321430" it is something we're looking to implement in the future, even though it isn't currently possible.[/quote]
/Sigh. Sure sounds like this is a feature that will never be possible.
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