No more spaming skills? Fine so Nerf Reflect now also

Sav72 · October 2015

CP nerf

Shadow Cloak nerf

Time to add a cast timer on Reflect!

VoiDGhOs7 · October 2015

L2P

Turelus · October 2015

This is why we can't gave a good game.

Just because they have something you can't so, doesn't mean it should be nerfed into the ground because the thing you could do was.

BEZDNA · October 2015

there are still ppl who use reflect?

Sav72 · October 2015

Turelus wrote: »

This is why we can't gave a good game.

Just because they have something you can't so, doesn't mean it should be nerfed into the ground because the thing you could do was.

They nerfed every thing else to the ground....

What makes DKs so special?

Is my money not green enough?

Sav72 · October 2015

VoiDGhOs7 wrote: »

L2P

LOL,,,, children

FlyLeaf30 · October 2015

Why does everyone have to complain about everything? Oh, something is too hard, nerf it, I can't take it. *cries*. Suck it up! If something is hard, embrace it, if one person can get through something, I think everyone should, stop crying because their build is better than yours. I bet you a milli gold, Orsinium Arena will get nerfed before it hits live.
Rant over.

Trayyacakes · October 2015

Reflect is completely different, it only reflects 4 projectiles... nerfing it won't make a difference in 1v1s and the skill itself doesn't do much as is in outnumbers situations because 2 people who use animation canceling and a projectile instantly use up the 4 projectiles. GvG most of the skills used are aoe so again no change. Magicka DKs are already the worse pvp class in the game. Leave them alone.

BEZDNA · October 2015

Sav72 wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

This is why we can't gave a good game.

Just because they have something you can't so, doesn't mean it should be nerfed into the ground because the thing you could do was.

They nerfed every thing else to the ground....

What makes DKs so special?

Is my money not green enough?

they actually nerfed DK in these patch by block nerfed, so DK are on same boat.

Sav72 · October 2015

Touchy subject for you DKs to nerf your skill, that causes damage while you do nothing....

So as a NB, I use my shadow cloak, to get away, what harm does that do to you? Did it kill you? Stun you?

If they nerf a harmless skill, then its time to nerf something that needed nerfing from day 1.

SO .. to all you crying about my post.... Deal with it.

Anhedonie · October 2015

Sav72 wrote: »

CP nerf

Shadow Cloak nerf

Time to add a cast timer on Reflect!

Nah, leave long casting times to templars, cause you know, they are slow by design. We don't need other classes having templar bugs features.

Dracane · October 2015

Cloak did not get nerfed.
I agree that Scales are one of the most overpowered abilities in the game, cloak is one of them as well.
But each class has strong survival tools. Nightblade cloak, DK scales, Sorc hardened ward, Templar self heal.

And as a Nightblade, why would you even care for scales ? Your main damage comes from your iressistable melee attacks.

CP5 · October 2015

See, Reflect got nerfed, Cloak has evaded nerfs so far. Bolt Escape has been nerfed many times yet people still claim its op, so i'm sure you NB's won't be destroyed if something were to happen to it. Unless you want to bring templars into this I suggest you look over your entire class and try to explain how cloak is 'the only thing NB's have going for them' as others seem to suggest.

Dracane · October 2015

CP5 wrote: »

See, Reflect got nerfed, Cloak has evaded nerfs so far. Bolt Escape has been nerfed many times yet people still claim its op, so i'm sure you NB's won't be destroyed if something were to happen to it. Unless you want to bring templars into this I suggest you look over your entire class and try to explain how cloak is 'the only thing NB's have going for them' as others seem to suggest.

And it's not only about what your class has to offer, but what non-class skills make your class become.
Things like healing ward and annulment make Magicka NIghtblades Overpowered and unkillable combined with cloak. Cloak on it's own would be fine, if Nightblades couldn't have strong shield+cloak.

Sorcerers would be a joke if they couldn't spam force shock, because they have no spammable class ability that they could sustain.

So you always have to take into account, the snyergy between your class and non-class abilities. (saying this to OP, not to you @CP5 )

CP5 · October 2015

Dracane wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

See, Reflect got nerfed, Cloak has evaded nerfs so far. Bolt Escape has been nerfed many times yet people still claim its op, so i'm sure you NB's won't be destroyed if something were to happen to it. Unless you want to bring templars into this I suggest you look over your entire class and try to explain how cloak is 'the only thing NB's have going for them' as others seem to suggest.

And it's not only about what your class has to offer, but what non-class skills make your class become.
Things like healing ward and annulment make Magicka NIghtblades Overpowered and unkillable combined with cloak. Cloak on it's own would be fine, if Nightblades couldn't have strong shield+cloak.

Sorcerers would be a joke if they couldn't spam force shock, because they have no spammable class ability that they could sustain.

So you always have to take into account, the snyergy between your class and non-class abilities. (saying this to OP, not to you (A)CP5 )

Sadly everything is only balanced alone and not against the bigger picture.

eliisra · October 2015

Sav72 wrote: »

Touchy subject for you DKs to nerf your skill, that causes damage while you do nothing....

So as a NB, I use my shadow cloak, to get away, what harm does that do to you? Did it kill you? Stun you?

If they nerf a harmless skill, then its time to nerf something that needed nerfing from day 1.

SO .. to all you crying about my post.... Deal with it.

Who is crying? DK's have no tears left when it comes to Reflective Scales. ZoS already nerfed it brutally prior to 1.6. You think they have the energy to cry again, because someone wants to nerf a skill that's already nerfed lol?

Need a better example, if you want them to bite.

Problem is, you cant find much about DK's that haven't been nerfed already. It's the most nerfed class in the game.

Literally every escape- and defence mechanic in this game was also nerfed once or twice. Besides of course NB cloak, it's been fixed and buffed, why there's always 2-3 discussion threads about it on the first page.

Dracane · October 2015

eliisra wrote: »

Sav72 wrote: »

Touchy subject for you DKs to nerf your skill, that causes damage while you do nothing....

So as a NB, I use my shadow cloak, to get away, what harm does that do to you? Did it kill you? Stun you?

If they nerf a harmless skill, then its time to nerf something that needed nerfing from day 1.

SO .. to all you crying about my post.... Deal with it.

Who is crying? DK's have no tears left when it comes to Reflective Scales. ZoS already nerfed it brutally prior to 1.6. You think they have the energy to cry again, because someone wants to nerf a skill that's already nerfed lol?

Need a better example, if you want them to bite.

Problem is, you cant find much about DK's that haven't been nerfed already. It's the most nerfed class in the game.

Literally every escape- and defence mechanic in this game was also nerfed once or twice. Besides of course NB cloak, it's been fixed and buffed, why there's always 2-3 discussion threads about it on the first page.

I think, scales is as strong as it was prior to the "nerf" In a 1v1 situation or even 2v1, it is as strong as always.
It might make a difference when a zerg is shooting projectiles at you. But besides that....

Problem is, that Scales counters too many important offensive abilities. But as I said earlier, each class has a strong survival mechanic and scales is the DKs version. So no problem

Junglejim82 · October 2015

Nerf sorcs

DUTCH_REAPER · October 2015

I have no more tears left to cry for my DKs. But your spittle in my eye will do the trick. Thanks.

SturgeHammer · October 2015

Dragon Blood was the original DK spam ability and it was given a diminishing returns timer a few months after launch.

CP5 · October 2015

Dracane wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

Sav72 wrote: »

Touchy subject for you DKs to nerf your skill, that causes damage while you do nothing....

So as a NB, I use my shadow cloak, to get away, what harm does that do to you? Did it kill you? Stun you?

If they nerf a harmless skill, then its time to nerf something that needed nerfing from day 1.

SO .. to all you crying about my post.... Deal with it.

Who is crying? DK's have no tears left when it comes to Reflective Scales. ZoS already nerfed it brutally prior to 1.6. You think they have the energy to cry again, because someone wants to nerf a skill that's already nerfed lol?

Need a better example, if you want them to bite.

Problem is, you cant find much about DK's that haven't been nerfed already. It's the most nerfed class in the game.

Literally every escape- and defence mechanic in this game was also nerfed once or twice. Besides of course NB cloak, it's been fixed and buffed, why there's always 2-3 discussion threads about it on the first page.

I think, scales is as strong as it was prior to the "nerf" In a 1v1 situation or even 2v1, it is as strong as always.
It might make a difference when a zerg is shooting projectiles at you. But besides that....

Problem is, that Scales counters too many important offensive abilities. But as I said earlier, each class has a strong survival mechanic and scales is the DKs version. So no problem

With a templar feeding shards a DK with enough regen to keep scales up at all times could also toggle guard on and pre-nerf would be able to negate all single target projectiles for all nearby allies. That probably played into the projectile number limit.

Dracane · October 2015

CP5 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

Sav72 wrote: »

Touchy subject for you DKs to nerf your skill, that causes damage while you do nothing....

So as a NB, I use my shadow cloak, to get away, what harm does that do to you? Did it kill you? Stun you?

If they nerf a harmless skill, then its time to nerf something that needed nerfing from day 1.

SO .. to all you crying about my post.... Deal with it.

Who is crying? DK's have no tears left when it comes to Reflective Scales. ZoS already nerfed it brutally prior to 1.6. You think they have the energy to cry again, because someone wants to nerf a skill that's already nerfed lol?

Need a better example, if you want them to bite.

Problem is, you cant find much about DK's that haven't been nerfed already. It's the most nerfed class in the game.

Literally every escape- and defence mechanic in this game was also nerfed once or twice. Besides of course NB cloak, it's been fixed and buffed, why there's always 2-3 discussion threads about it on the first page.

I think, scales is as strong as it was prior to the "nerf" In a 1v1 situation or even 2v1, it is as strong as always.
It might make a difference when a zerg is shooting projectiles at you. But besides that....

Problem is, that Scales counters too many important offensive abilities. But as I said earlier, each class has a strong survival mechanic and scales is the DKs version. So no problem

With a templar feeding shards a DK with enough regen to keep scales up at all times could also toggle guard on and pre-nerf would be able to negate all single target projectiles for all nearby allies. That probably played into the projectile number limit.

If the DK is built for regen, has enough Magicka to keep his strong stamina passive up and with a Templar and someone spamming grand healing with a master staff, he could keep up guard forever, while reflecting everything back. An overpowered combo when played right.

But tactical thinking should be rewarded.

CP5 · October 2015

Dracane wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

Sav72 wrote: »

Touchy subject for you DKs to nerf your skill, that causes damage while you do nothing....

So as a NB, I use my shadow cloak, to get away, what harm does that do to you? Did it kill you? Stun you?

If they nerf a harmless skill, then its time to nerf something that needed nerfing from day 1.

SO .. to all you crying about my post.... Deal with it.

Who is crying? DK's have no tears left when it comes to Reflective Scales. ZoS already nerfed it brutally prior to 1.6. You think they have the energy to cry again, because someone wants to nerf a skill that's already nerfed lol?

Need a better example, if you want them to bite.

Problem is, you cant find much about DK's that haven't been nerfed already. It's the most nerfed class in the game.

Literally every escape- and defence mechanic in this game was also nerfed once or twice. Besides of course NB cloak, it's been fixed and buffed, why there's always 2-3 discussion threads about it on the first page.

I think, scales is as strong as it was prior to the "nerf" In a 1v1 situation or even 2v1, it is as strong as always.
It might make a difference when a zerg is shooting projectiles at you. But besides that....

Problem is, that Scales counters too many important offensive abilities. But as I said earlier, each class has a strong survival mechanic and scales is the DKs version. So no problem

With a templar feeding shards a DK with enough regen to keep scales up at all times could also toggle guard on and pre-nerf would be able to negate all single target projectiles for all nearby allies. That probably played into the projectile number limit.

If the DK is built for regen, has enough Magicka to keep his strong stamina passive up and with a Templar and someone spamming grand healing with a master staff, he could keep up guard forever, while reflecting everything back. An overpowered combo when played right.

But tactical thinking should be rewarded.

I agree, but with how irritating it was for all single target ranged abilities, from light attacks to ultimates, being completely negated and also dealing that much damage or more to the caster was bad enough with single targets. I have this combo on my DK tank now and would love to see this kind of layer added to the combat but scales is a solid skill with the 4 projectile limit.

Ishammael · October 2015

I thought this horse was beat to death six months ago?

Reflect doesn't (barely) work now, anyway.

This is a serious L2P issue.

Alucardo · October 2015

It's ok people. Nerf DK thread - so it must be a joke

Dracane · October 2015

CP5 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

eliisra wrote: »

Sav72 wrote: »

Touchy subject for you DKs to nerf your skill, that causes damage while you do nothing....

So as a NB, I use my shadow cloak, to get away, what harm does that do to you? Did it kill you? Stun you?

If they nerf a harmless skill, then its time to nerf something that needed nerfing from day 1.

SO .. to all you crying about my post.... Deal with it.

Who is crying? DK's have no tears left when it comes to Reflective Scales. ZoS already nerfed it brutally prior to 1.6. You think they have the energy to cry again, because someone wants to nerf a skill that's already nerfed lol?

Need a better example, if you want them to bite.

Problem is, you cant find much about DK's that haven't been nerfed already. It's the most nerfed class in the game.

Literally every escape- and defence mechanic in this game was also nerfed once or twice. Besides of course NB cloak, it's been fixed and buffed, why there's always 2-3 discussion threads about it on the first page.

I think, scales is as strong as it was prior to the "nerf" In a 1v1 situation or even 2v1, it is as strong as always.
It might make a difference when a zerg is shooting projectiles at you. But besides that....

Problem is, that Scales counters too many important offensive abilities. But as I said earlier, each class has a strong survival mechanic and scales is the DKs version. So no problem

With a templar feeding shards a DK with enough regen to keep scales up at all times could also toggle guard on and pre-nerf would be able to negate all single target projectiles for all nearby allies. That probably played into the projectile number limit.

If the DK is built for regen, has enough Magicka to keep his strong stamina passive up and with a Templar and someone spamming grand healing with a master staff, he could keep up guard forever, while reflecting everything back. An overpowered combo when played right.

But tactical thinking should be rewarded.

I agree, but with how irritating it was for all single target ranged abilities, from light attacks to ultimates, being completely negated and also dealing that much damage or more to the caster was bad enough with single targets. I have this combo on my DK tank now and would love to see this kind of layer added to the combat but scales is a solid skill with the 4 projectile limit.

It's true, scales is too strong for what it does. Absorbing damage and negating its damage is a different thing than reflecting things to negate damage and also apply this damage+possible CC to the attacker. Scales also deals extra damage

I still think, that defensive stance is more dangerous in some situations. Imagine both combined, DKs could never be killed by mages. You have to time your attacks right and exploit the moment, when his scales ran out. But if the dk has defensive stance active.... he will be unkillable with both and if he reapllies everything

luckily, nobody seems to do this.

caperon · October 2015

Dracane wrote: »

I still think, that defensive stance is more dangerous in some situations. Imagine both combined, DKs could never be killed by mages. You have to time your attacks right and exploit the moment, when his scales ran out. But if the dk has defensive stance active.... he will be unkillable with both and if he reapllies everything luckily, nobody seems to do this.

Maybe because you don't have idea what the *** are you talking about and that combo sucks anyway. Nowdays, any decent sorcerer will only frag you if you are already cced or know you have wings down, most of the time will curse, force pulse, channeled lighting atack, magicka detonation, mines... No projectiles needed to kill a magicka DK, that will have an extremelly dificult time to go thru stacked shields, even if he does then sorcerer will streak away laughting.

PS: and mages wrath, you can't reflect those.

Asmael · October 2015

I had a duel yesterday with my Sorc against a pretty good DK.

Reflective scales is... Definitely not as great as you might think.

Case 1, your target has to cast it every 4 seconds, not reflecting anything, and putting pressure on his own magicka. No frag, but you'd better have a very, VERY good magicka sustain.

Case 2, you only try to drop it when you see a frag, which is extremely hard at almost melee range, since C.Frag is a very fast cast.

Case 3, you go "**** this ****" and go for a shield, which is guaranteed to work.

Defensive posture is a good option if facing a Sorc with DW / 2H, so not capable of using a light attack right before a C.Frag.

What happened is my opponent couldn't have Scales up at all times, and I used every single opportunity to quickly throw in a Frag.

TL;DR: Reflective Scales is pretty good against scrubs, but extremely time and magicka consuming. So it's probably sort of "fine" as is.

asneakybanana · October 2015

The cheese skill for each class has be nerfed. Nbs were the last class to. Avoid the nerf bat for their cheese skill but it's finally come around for them. For dks it was wings and dragon blood, for sorcs it was streak and a "shield nerf" that seems to have made them stronger, templar have had blazing shield and radiant destruction nerfed pretty hard, and nbs have had a pretty meh nerf to cloak while leaving fear untouched which has been OP for the longest time. Also, wings has already been nerfed in the past by capping the number of projectiles that can b reflected to 4. And then before that, although not intentional, anything that was reflected charged the Dk for stamina and magicka cost of the skill as if he were casting them.

Dracane · October 2015

caperon wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I still think, that defensive stance is more dangerous in some situations. Imagine both combined, DKs could never be killed by mages. You have to time your attacks right and exploit the moment, when his scales ran out. But if the dk has defensive stance active.... he will be unkillable with both and if he reapllies everything luckily, nobody seems to do this.

Maybe because you don't have idea what the *** are you talking about and that combo sucks anyway. Nowdays, any decent sorcerer will only frag you if you are already cced or know you have wings down, most of the time will curse, force pulse, channeled lighting atack, magicka detonation, mines... No projectiles needed to kill a magicka DK, that will have an extremelly dificult time to go thru stacked shields, even if he does then sorcerer will streak away laughting.

PS: and mages wrath, you can't reflect those.

Calm down.....

That combo is great. If a Sorcerer manages to kill you completely without frags, then you should questions yourself instead.
The range of melee attacks is bigger than the range of mines, curse can be outhealed easily, same with lightning heavy attacks. And you can still block things. And Mage's wrath ? Really ? Don't tell me this bolt harms you

Btw, mage's fury execute is blockable now even though it makes no sense.

I am not complaining about Sorc vs DK. I just mentioned, that DK can heavily counter Sorcerers. But Sorcerer on the other can also counter Dks a bit.

CP5 · October 2015

Dracane wrote: »

caperon wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I still think, that defensive stance is more dangerous in some situations. Imagine both combined, DKs could never be killed by mages. You have to time your attacks right and exploit the moment, when his scales ran out. But if the dk has defensive stance active.... he will be unkillable with both and if he reapllies everything luckily, nobody seems to do this.

Maybe because you don't have idea what the *** are you talking about and that combo sucks anyway. Nowdays, any decent sorcerer will only frag you if you are already cced or know you have wings down, most of the time will curse, force pulse, channeled lighting atack, magicka detonation, mines... No projectiles needed to kill a magicka DK, that will have an extremelly dificult time to go thru stacked shields, even if he does then sorcerer will streak away laughting.

PS: and mages wrath, you can't reflect those.

Calm down.....

That combo is great. If a Sorcerer manages to kill you completely without frags, then you should questions yourself instead.
The range of melee attacks is bigger than the range of mines, curse can be outhealed easily, same with lightning heavy attacks. And you can still block things. And Mage's wrath ? Really ? Don't tell me this bolt harms you Btw, mage's fury execute is blockable now even though it makes no sense.

I am not complaining about Sorc vs DK. I just mentioned, that DK can heavily counter Sorcerers. But Sorcerer on the other can also counter Dks a bit.

This reminds me. I recently brought my non-vet dk to vet just to do something different. My group was at arrius (dc owned) but went elsewhere but I stayed behind. I managed to break in the front door and was working on the outter when 2 vet sorcs (ep) came in and tried to kill me. I was able to have an enjoyable conversation with text chat with my group about what was going on as they tried to kill me. Its fun to build heavily for defense but battle leveling doesn't give enough sustain sadly.