Why stamina NB is the best class 1.7/2.1 (PVP)

SRIBES · October 2015

*This is mainly geared towards STAM NB but a lot of these things apply to magicka NB as as well. But before I start I wanted to say I am by no means saying NB takes no skill to play (I have two v16 NB's) but I am addressing what I feel like makes NB the best class this patch.*

There is a reason when you enter cyrodiil the class you are normally most killed by is NB. It's OP and the meta builds are exchanged and advertised by different youtube/twitch content providers making the class very popular so now everyone plays it. Sorc, DK, and templar are pretty much equal (aside from magicka DK) while NB has the utilities to outperform every other class 1vX and 1v1. They have the most build versatility while remaining number one in sustain, mobility and damage. Let me explain.

•Cheapest ultimate in the game - (50 ultimate) death stroke. It is a high single target burst ability and applies a heal debuff, increases the damage against the target.

•Best CC in the game - Unlike fossilize or rune prison this CC that is not blockable will not break on damage. It snares and reduces the targets damage. It is also an AoE. Werewolf has access to a similar ability except it has a cast time, it's stamina based and you have to activate the WW ultimate to use it.

•Best Sustain - 15% recovery to every stat. This works so well with the willows path set on NB that it really isn't even fair. Even without it you can make other classes look like a joke while you pull off 2.5k+ stamina/magicka regen (depending if you are magicka or stamina) and assuming you are not a vampire you can get away with very high health recovery which never hurts at all. On top of all this you have siphoning attacks. It was nerfed, kinda? Not really, you don't lose damage and still gain sustain a lot of nightblade builds don't even need this due to the absurd recovery they have but this just tops it all off.

•The best class mobility - I had to bring up cloak/shadow image and i'm sure you knew it was going to be discussed just from the title of this thread. No other class can disengage mid fight and sit their waiting to recover stats or controlling the outcome of the fight. Cloak is like a timeout button and they can click resume whenever they feel like it. Shadow image is just a synergy with cloak which is almost a guarantee get away in open world if you use it properly and is honestly a troll skill. There are counters to fear such as radiant mage light, AoE, Detection potions but in reality NB's who know how to use it will know not to use it when they're getting spammed with AoE's and the majority of players don't want to waste a skill slot (or two) and the money for a potion to counter one skill. It's when used correctly a NB can just take a group on so easily. Kill one guy in the back, cloak up and wait for the next victim or just take on 6 noobs because NB has insane damage and roll dodge or shadow image out, cloak up and go back in when you're ready. Not to mention that it's a great escape and insanely good in both IC and Cyrodiil. The other skill is ambush, this isn't that big of a deal but still provides better mobility than any other gap closer even though it has a short cast time. It can be used while rooted and you can ambush players while they're below or above you and in general is just amazing.

•The damage - It is really hard for other classes to have to balance their heals, being tanky, and doing heavy DPS. As for most NB's it's pop into cloak and heal and turtle in cloak till you're ready to hop back into the fight. Most NB builds even open up from stealth with either a surprise attack or concealed weapon and can just keep spamming it as it puts so much pressure on people but as soon as they get pressured it's cloak time. They have access to so many debuffs to their enemies while they maintain high damage from concealed/surprise attack and buff it up with relentless focus to increase damage and sustain and even get a free burst spectral bow in their if they weave light attacks in with their abilities. Surprise attack is the only instant melee burst stamina attack in game. Templar has biting jabs but that's a channel and can still be semi avoided. DK's and sorcs need a instant cast or at least channeled stam class ability like templars or NB shouldn't have surprise attack.

In conclusion this is absurd and has to be balanced. They can get the highest recovery while putting out insane DPS and control the outcomes of 1v1 fights against non nb's and can escape nearly any small fight or kill the people they're fighting. NB needs to be toned down either in sustain or damage, I think mobility is a must for the class but they need one or all of these to be toned the *** down. What do you think needs to happen?

Araxleon · October 2015

Stamina is on a league of its own, but magicka is equal to sorc.
dont kill magicka NB T_T (most stamina NB nerfs would effect magicka NB) sadly..

Aces-High-82 · October 2015

OMG another nerf NB thread.....

SHADOW2KK · October 2015

RISE OF THE STAMINA NBS, LEAVE US ALONE DAMNIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

tengri · October 2015

That's.... a lot of txt early in the morning. On a Sunday. Even without coffee yet...

Should have just said nerf NB.
Easy to read and understand, to the point one immediately knows where to file it. Even without coffee.

NoRefunds · October 2015

even with shield breaker magika sorcs are still the strongest build for normal pvp since they are the only class that can actually kill people from range while keeping melee enemies in check with mines and streak, in dueling dks are extremely strong(see your build or some magika builds) but they have no mobility and low burst so they are pretty bad in normal zergy pvp, templars healing is insane and it takes 20 min to kill a good one using 1h-shield and phoenix set, stam NB and stam sorc(see king richard or fengrush builds) are extremely good for normal pvp because they have extreme burst and awsome mobility and survability. In the end i think that the main reason why stamina NB is a bit superior to the other classes stamina builds is surprise attack, which has very good instant burst, armor debuff and buffs you armor-spell res by 5k for free, cloak is a good skill but its effective only vs people not using any kind of aoe, usually DKs, which is probably the reason why its bothering you so much, but if you try to play with your nb for a while you will see that 80% of the times it gets hard countered by aoe spam or mark

TheNephilimCrow · October 2015

Honestly, I don't know why nerf threads are a thing. Or nerfing, for that matter. I get the basic idea is making it all a level playing field. I understand it sucks being exploited by a cheap tactic or bar set up. Happens all the time. What I don't understand is how people do not realize that when one class gets changed, there will be another class that reigns supreme. It will never be balanced to people's liking. Where as I believe people have the right to complain about a certain thing, I also believe people have the right to use some common sense and realize that little fact. Before it was DK Tanks, now its basically all NBs with CW/SA.

If you want something to be equal then the Devs need to take away buffs, set armors, self heals, ranged attacks, cloaks, reflective and CC abilities, the ability to freely move around and make every one and every skill do the same damage no matter how its used, with no added effects. Then, no one will play because it would be too vanilla. Just enjoy the game as created and intended. Before you know it you'll all be running into battle naked with foam swords and chaperones.

Gunphu · October 2015

The DKs and Sorcs from previous patches were way stronger than NB and they both got nerfed. So now people say NB is OP but nothing changed for NBs, cloak got fixed (kinda) and that was it.

Master_Kas · October 2015

" Sorc, DK, and templar are pretty much equal"

@DeanTheCat

CP5 · October 2015

I will just throw this in, I was running in a group the other night and checked out the groups class makeup. At the time I checked we had 2 DK's, 5 templars, 5 sorcs, and 10 NB's. It doesn't help that the best class to counter nb's are other nb's.

eliisra · October 2015

CP5 wrote: »

I will just throw this in, I was running in a group the other night and checked out the groups class makeup. At the time I checked we had 2 DK's, 5 templars, 5 sorcs, and 10 NB's. It doesn't help that the best class to counter nb's are other nb's.

Ugh, I know what you mean. Think we had 16 NB's in raid the other day. So bad. Everyone, for obvious reasons, wants to come on their fotm NB. People that always played NB main, must be really frustrated.

This is about as bad as back in 1.3-1.5 when I always had to solo heal 15 DK's in every single raid. Did not enjoy.

I get that we're playing ESO Nightblade City, DLC game pack blah blah. But raids up in Cyro still kind of need healers, DK's and sorcs or you will fail

LBxFinalDeath · October 2015

I may be playing a stam NB incorrectly but I'd say outside of IC where its more open the other classes have a pretty high chance of reking a Nightblades day and its far more viable for a NB to single out solo enemies, usually the stragglers.

I personally have yet to see a NB take on 6 players of varied classes outside of youtube videos with Stam NBs having near 2K CP and kill all of them which is supposedly what they are able to do with ease....mainly because of "cloak".

For me I always get rekt when I try and flee because three Sorcs just start streak spamming in my general area and even if they aren't anywhere near me it forces me out of stealth and they then all hit me with crystal fragments to pretty much insta-down me.

1v1'ing a NB as a non-NB you should be at a disadvantage since well....isn't that the main point of the class?

Lastly I never see 1v1 fights....ever. Its always giant groups running around.

xylena · October 2015

surprise attack is OP faceroll dps right now, really dumbs down the stamblade class

resto staff abilities take you out of cloak, but momentum/vigor don't

those are the only two issues with NB they are otherwise fine

thelordoffelines · October 2015

xylena wrote: »

surprise attack is OP faceroll dps right now, really dumbs down the stamblade class

resto staff abilities take you out of cloak, but momentum/vigor don't

those are the only two issues with NB they are otherwise fine

Kinda funny how suprise attack did more damage that an ult (possibly 2 but thats probabky the dot from meteor) and an ability that has a one second cast time.

xylena · October 2015

i think that was the impact of the meteor but i blocked it... the rest was definitely not blocked, and the stamblade had been spamming SA at me the whole chase... definitely not in stealth, no buffs from death stroke or ambush

getting focused Xv1 keeps bloodspawn 2pc buff going, i would've had 23k spell resist and 20k physical resist on a 5med 2hvy build during this fight (turns out i like my 5hvy 2med build better though)

ToRelax · October 2015

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

I may be playing a stam NB incorrectly but I'd say outside of IC where its more open the other classes have a pretty high chance of reking a Nightblades day and its far more viable for a NB to single out solo enemies, usually the stragglers.

I personally have yet to see a NB take on 6 players of varied classes outside of youtube videos with Stam NBs having near 2K CP and kill all of them which is supposedly what they are able to do with ease....mainly because of "cloak".

For me I always get rekt when I try and flee because three Sorcs just start streak spamming in my general area and even if they aren't anywhere near me it forces me out of stealth and they then all hit me with crystal fragments to pretty much insta-down me.

1v1'ing a NB as a non-NB you should be at a disadvantage since well....isn't that the main point of the class?

Lastly I never see 1v1 fights....ever. Its always giant groups running around.

You don't need to try to explain everything for you with unreasonable amounts of CP, you know. I'd be the last one to say they make no difference, but no one has 2k CP, and the players making 1vX videos are certainly nowhere near it.
Besides, I always found this nerfing based on 1vX pretty stupid, when you can win 1v6, then the enemies weren't good, so you don't need to be OP to kill them.

LBxFinalDeath · October 2015

I was more trying to say that the common NB can't do what everyone claims they can do with little effort.

As such its silly to nerf the class because of what the smallest percentage of nightblades are capable of doing.

I did exaggerate the 2K bit but my point got across, I think.

GreenSoup2HoT · October 2015

I don't get why you are complaining when you (DK) were in the legend's dueling tournament and got second place. I feel the only reason you have created this thread is because you lost to Ali Sabre who was a Nightblade. However his build counter's tanky build's. Also you still held your own fine against him for a good 15+ minutes. You also did not have reverberating bash which could of changed the fight drastically.

He was using all the skill's you talked about. However he used shield breaker which is what lost you the fight in the end.
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In my opinion as a nightblade, there are so many time's were my cloak is useless. Caltrop's on any other stamina build make's nightblade's garbage. We need to get out so we can cloak to heal like you said.

I'm also pretty sure Zos has stated they are doing something to Cloak. Diminishing return's or no regen during cloak, we will not know until they give us more information.
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If you don't like stamina or magicka nightblade's how about you slot caltrop's/immovable. You will never have problem's with nightblade's again.
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Also you could make the exact same thread about every class spec in the game. I hate to say this but this just seem's like a LTP issue. You have the abilities to counter nightblade's but you refrain from using them. Instead you just complain that Nightblade's have this and that. I could make the same thread about any other class. This is one of those case's where "i died, NERF".

thelordoffelines wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

surprise attack is OP faceroll dps right now, really dumbs down the stamblade class

resto staff abilities take you out of cloak, but momentum/vigor don't

those are the only two issues with NB they are otherwise fine

Kinda funny how suprise attack did more damage that an ult (possibly 2 but thats probabky the dot from meteor) and an ability that has a one second cast time.

The Ult you saw was from a terrible magicka nightblade. Surprise att can easily hit for 7k on a proper stamina build. My Soul Harvest tooltips for 12k+

CP5 · October 2015

LBxFinalDeath wrote: »

I was more trying to say that the common NB can't do what everyone claims they can do with little effort.

As such its silly to nerf the class because of what the smallest percentage of nightblades are capable of doing.

I did exaggerate the 2K bit but my point got across, I think.

Did that stop zos from nerfing bolt escape for the upteenth time?

SRIBES · October 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I don't get why you are complaining when you (DK) were in the legend's dueling tournament and got second place. I feel the only reason you have created this thread is because you lost to Ali Sabre who was a Nightblade. However his build counter's tanky build's. Also you still held your own fine against him for a good 15+ minutes. You also did not have reverberating bash which could of changed the fight drastically.

He was using all the skill's you talked about. However he used shield breaker which is what lost you the fight in the end.
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In my opinion as a nightblade, there are so many time's were my cloak is useless. Caltrop's on any other stamina build make's nightblade's garbage. We need to get out so we can cloak to heal like you said.

I'm also pretty sure Zos has stated they are doing something to Cloak. Diminishing return's or no regen during cloak, we will not know until they give us more information.
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If you don't like stamina or magicka nightblade's how about you slot caltrop's/immovable. You will never have problem's with nightblade's again.
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Also you could make the exact same thread about every class spec in the game. I hate to say this but this just seem's like a LTP issue. You have the abilities to counter nightblade's but you refrain from using them. Instead you just complain that Nightblade's have this and that. I could make the same thread about any other class. This is one of those case's where "i died, NERF".

thelordoffelines wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

surprise attack is OP faceroll dps right now, really dumbs down the stamblade class

resto staff abilities take you out of cloak, but momentum/vigor don't

those are the only two issues with NB they are otherwise fine

Kinda funny how suprise attack did more damage that an ult (possibly 2 but thats probabky the dot from meteor) and an ability that has a one second cast time.

The Ult you saw was from a terrible magicka nightblade. Surprise att can easily hit for 7k on a proper stamina build. My Soul Harvest tooltips for 12k+

I don't think you read my thread at all. I pointed out every way how NB is OP. Immovable is a massive stamina drain to keep it up every 5 seconds while caltrops are a waste of stamina against any good NB in duels because they know how to move out of them. Sabre is my friend and this thread is not geared towards him at all. This is geared towards the majority of ESO's population which seems to be stamina nightblades that can obtain insane sustain, while hitting me for 9k+ surprise attacks, and debuffing me left and right. Sure, most of the time I will beat stamina nb's who are not as skilled as myself but if they are one of the better players and generally know how to play the game there is zero reason for them to lose because they have so many advantages over the other classes. 1vX it can really just burst people down so quick while not letting their stats drop below 80% and cloaking as needed. Nightblade is better than it should be.

JDar · October 2015

SRIBES · October 2015

Araxleon wrote: »

Stamina is on a league of its own, but magicka is equal to sorc.
dont kill magicka NB T_T

Arax I edited the thread to be more specific to stamina NB.

SRIBES · October 2015

CP5 wrote: »

I will just throw this in, I was running in a group the other night and checked out the groups class makeup. At the time I checked we had 2 DK's, 5 templars, 5 sorcs, and 10 NB's. It doesn't help that the best class to counter nb's are other nb's.

This.

Joy_Division · October 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

I could make the same thread about any other class. This is one of those case's where "i died, NERF".

Not that I agree with the original post but I would like to see you compose a thread about a magicka DK being OP.

Xsorus · October 2015

ChannelTribes wrote: »

*This is mainly geared towards STAM NB but a lot of these things apply to magicka NB as as well. But before I start I wanted to say I am by no means saying NB takes no skill to play (I have two v16 NB's) but I am addressing what I feel like makes NB the best class this patch.*

There is a reason when you enter cyrodiil the class you are normally most killed by is NB. It's OP and the meta builds are exchanged and advertised by different youtube/twitch content providers making the class very popular so now everyone plays it. Sorc, DK, and templar are pretty much equal (aside from magicka DK) while NB has the utilities to outperform every other class 1vX and 1v1. They have the most build versatility while remaining number one in sustain, mobility and damage. Let me explain.

•Cheapest ultimate in the game - (50 ultimate) death stroke. It is a high single target burst ability and applies a heal debuff, increases the damage against the target.

•Best CC in the game - Unlike fossilize or rune prison this CC that is not blockable will not break on damage. It snares and reduces the targets damage. It is also an AoE. Werewolf has access to a similar ability except it has a cast time, it's stamina based and you have to activate the WW ultimate to use it.

•Best Sustain - 15% recovery to every stat. This works so well with the willows path set on NB that it really isn't even fair. Even without it you can make other classes look like a joke while you pull off 2.5k+ stamina/magicka regen (depending if you are magicka or stamina) and assuming you are not a vampire you can get away with very high health recovery which never hurts at all. On top of all this you have siphoning attacks. It was nerfed, kinda? Not really, you don't lose damage and still gain sustain a lot of nightblade builds don't even need this due to the absurd recovery they have but this just tops it all off.

•The best class mobility - I had to bring up cloak/shadow image and i'm sure you knew it was going to be discussed just from the title of this thread. No other class can disengage mid fight and sit their waiting to recover stats or controlling the outcome of the fight. Cloak is like a timeout button and they can click resume whenever they feel like it. Shadow image is just a synergy with cloak which is almost a guarantee get away in open world if you use it properly and is honestly a troll skill. There are counters to fear such as radiant mage light, AoE, Detection potions but in reality NB's who know how to use it will know not to use it when they're getting spammed with AoE's and the majority of players don't want to waste a skill slot (or two) and the money for a potion to counter one skill. It's when used correctly a NB can just take a group on so easily. Kill one guy in the back, cloak up and wait for the next victim or just take on 6 noobs because NB has insane damage and roll dodge or shadow image out, cloak up and go back in when you're ready. Not to mention that it's a great escape and insanely good in both IC and Cyrodiil. The other skill is ambush, this isn't that big of a deal but still provides better mobility than any other gap closer even though it has a short cast time. It can be used while rooted and you can ambush players while they're below or above you and in general is just amazing.

•The damage - It is really hard for other classes to have to balance their heals, being tanky, and doing heavy DPS. As for most NB's it's pop into cloak and heal and turtle in cloak till you're ready to hop back into the fight. Most NB builds even open up from stealth with either a surprise attack or concealed weapon and can just keep spamming it as it puts so much pressure on people but as soon as they get pressured it's cloak time. They have access to so many debuffs to their enemies while they maintain high damage from concealed/surprise attack and buff it up with relentless focus to increase damage and sustain and even get a free burst spectral bow in their if they weave light attacks in with their abilities. Surprise attack is the only instant melee burst stamina attack in game. Templar has biting jabs but that's a channel and can still be semi avoided. DK's and sorcs need a instant cast or at least channeled stam class ability like templars or NB shouldn't have surprise attack.

In conclusion this is absurd and has to be balanced. They can get the highest recovery while putting out insane DPS and control the outcomes of 1v1 fights against non nb's and can escape nearly any small fight or kill the people they're fighting. NB needs to be toned down either in sustain or damage, I think mobility is a must for the class but they need one or all of these to be toned the *** down. What do you think needs to happen?

Nightblades are good in PvP right now for a myriad of reasons like you stated..

However...the reason they're better then virtually every other class right now is because in IC....when you get mobs on you..You can bloody cloak and they'll stop attacking..

When mobs bloody hit me for 10k a pop sometimes... being to ignore the vast majority of them is extremely useful.

Hell just moving about IC is 10x easier on a Nightblade..I can run super fast and not been seen while spamming cloak..Meanwhile on my DK...I have to slowly creep past mobs avoid being detected...While my Nightblade can stand next to them holding his you know what dancing in a circle and the mob will never bat an eye.

nordickittyhawk · October 2015

thelordoffelines wrote: »

xylena wrote: »

surprise attack is OP faceroll dps right now, really dumbs down the stamblade class

resto staff abilities take you out of cloak, but momentum/vigor don't

those are the only two issues with NB they are otherwise fine

Kinda funny how suprise attack did more damage that an ult (possibly 2 but thats probabky the dot from meteor) and an ability that has a one second cast time.

UHM... because thats not the hit... thats the ground effect -.- brain use it!

sabresandiego_ESO · October 2015

Good post, I have to agree with it. I do think that overall, magicka sorcs are at least on par with nightblades though. If it wasnt for the shield breaker set, magicka sorcs would still be the undisputed best class for pvp overall because of range damage, burst damage, survivability, and mobility.

twistedmonk · October 2015

sabresandiego_ESO wrote: »

Good post, I have to agree with it. I do think that overall, magicka sorcs are at least on par with nightblades though. If it wasnt for the shield breaker set, magicka sorcs would still be the undisputed best class for pvp overall because of range damage, burst damage, survivability, and mobility.

sorcs with enough CPs maybe can run around in heavy armor? seems only solution to shield breaker - honestly I think shield breaker is total BS. a set specifically made to kill sorcerors.

I'd like to see a NB breaker set

cschwingeb14_ESO · October 2015

Shields breaker completely ignores resists and blocking too. Wearing heavy won't help at all.

The NB breaker set is a detect/immovable pot with potion duration enchants

xylena · October 2015

really not sure the people QQing about magblades even know the difference between magblade and stamblade moves, and you'll see stamblades cloaking just as much as their magblade counterparts in IC skirmishing

The Ult you saw was from a terrible magicka nightblade. Surprise att can easily hit for 7k on a proper stamina build. My Soul Harvest tooltips for 12k+

nope, tis actually and EP friend of mine and he's one of the better magicka nbs i've gone up against... both the magblade and stamblade in the recap are skilled players/builders that have been playing since the beginning... the balance is so bad (for a number of reasons, not just SA damage being too high to begin with) that it doesn't even look real, but my no-life level of hours played tells me that

a geared minmaxed v16 magblade will hit 4-5k on their average concealed wep hit

a geared minmaxed v16 stamblade will hit 6-7k on their average surprise attack hit

not only is surprise attack consistently hitting for 50% more damage than its magicka counterpart(s), it consistently does more damage than cast/channel moves like snipe and flurry, and even more damage than some ultimates when players don't have enough CP to spec heavily into more than one dmg buff out of mighty, thaumaturge, and elemental dmg (somewhere i have a death recap pic of an opponent's surprise attack spam doing more damage per hit than their killers blade finisher when i had a sliver of health left)

reduce the base dmg of surprise attack, buff killers blade and power extraction

self healing while cloaking should behave consistently... magblade heals de-cloak you, stamblade heals don't... imo all self heals should de-cloak you the same way attacking would

Araxleon · October 2015

I do agree stamina NB, is top class atm.
in the hands of a good player.