Obtaining emperorship without effort.

MaxwellC · September 2015

The title may have given you the impression that this post would be an "Thanks for all you've done ZoS" appreciation forum but unfortunately it is not.
I do appreciate things ZoS has done in the past and promises to do in the future but the things they've done bad far out weighs the good.

This post is just another typical compliant/rant forum like the many others but this compliant extends to the campaign changes in how you obtain points and leader board rankings.

The campaign on Xbox One had just reset, I have the day off from work, no college home work as I've finished it over night. I'm a morning person so I'm all set, while the reset took place I was capturing keeps,resources,killing players and NPCs alike.

Here comes the complaint.
I captured over 6 different keeps all resources (by myself but I tagged along with a group). I wasn't in a actual group just followed them around and helped them complete things I couldn't do alone. The point is that I received little to nothing for all my work, I was ranked 29 with 75 points on the leader board after 4 keeps captured with resources . At that point I was like oh ok it must be a glitch there's no way I received so little points for all my work that I put out, unfortunately that wasn't the case.

The person who is currently ranked 1 told me he was in IC the entire time, THE ENTIRE TIME. He didn't help capture keeps, resources, repair walls, kill Players guarding the keep, or help the elder scroll get back. He accomplished none of that yet he was ranked #1.

Please ZoS tell me how is this a fair way of ranking players on the leader-board; especially when it determines who will be crowned emperor if all keeps are captured. I'm a Vet 16 Stam DK who knows his rotations pretty damn well yet you reward effort with nothing.

Feel free to discuss and flame me with every reason in the book you have but this is beyond ridiculousness

Addition People are having this misconception that I do not know how to get emperor. I know how to get it, I won't no life e.g. staying up all night popping soda and getting snack food to get it. I'd rather get into the fight control the map and slaughter players on the way to my blood stained throne. It is a fact that I've placed #1 until I wanted to sleep then I would get on and be #20 or something around that. The point of this thread is I believe actions that occurr in Cyrodiil needs more recognition than that in IC.

MaxwellC · September 2015

I forgot to also add since I'm a vet 16 I get even less AP when it comes to killing players who are a lower level than myself? Is it my fault when a veteran 1 night blade approaches me when I've finished a PvE fight and attempts to gank me but fails, I think not. It also seems I get lower AP when it came to capturing keeps/resources too but that may be my imagination, nevertheless killing players is a definite fact in-comparison to post IC patch.

@ZOS_RichLambert if you're making all these changes by rewarding those who do little to no work and giving lower levels a chance then make a new campaign and divide them by veteran levels.

Make it so that veteran 10-16 can be in 1 campaign and the others can be in another, I want emperorship by actually contributing to my campaign by collecting imperial keeps (gives bonuses) and stealing/reclaiming scrolls (gives bonuses as well)

heystreethawk · September 2015

You get the most AP from:

- Killing high-ranking players that haven't died in a while
- Defending keeps that have been attacked by sizable groups of players
- Taking keeps that are defended by sizable groups of players

There are other factors which play into this, making these actions more or less rewarding. For example, if you are taking an undefended keep or resource, you will not get very much AP. The guy ranked #1 who was in IC was probably running around killing people by himself or in a very small group, for example.

Edit: I'm not aware of any diminished AP from killing low level players, but low ranked players are worth less AP. I believe this scales off alliance rank, not leaderboard rank, but I could be mistaken. Players are also worth less AP if they have died recently.

MaxwellC · September 2015

@heystreethawk
That would be great if defending keeps, taking keeps, and resources actually matter but unfortunately it doesn't anymore. You just sit in IC all day killing players and you'll be ranked #1.

That to me is not effort in my opinion you should get reduced points (when being ranked in leader boards) when killing players in IC.
Becoming emperor is all about gaining the imperial keeps and taking other keeps, resources, and scrolls along the way. With IC it completely underplays the reason to even go outside and take keeps or do anything in cyrodiil as you can get into IC regardless of who owns the map.

Garion · September 2015

I strongly feel that AP earned in the IC should count toward your character AP rank but not the Cyrodiil LB. This might encourage people back into Cyro.

MaxwellC · September 2015

@Garion Exactly the way it should be, I completely given up on emperor this week as the player is 50k above everyone since most players where outside capturing keeps like me to gain the throne.

frozywozy · September 2015

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

The title may have given you the impression that this post would be an "Thanks for all you've done ZoS" appreciation forum but unfortunately it is not.
I do appreciate things ZoS has done in the past and promises to do in the future but the things they've done bad far out weighs the good.

This post is just another typical compliant/rant forum like the many others but this compliant extends to the campaign changes in how you obtain points and leader board rankings.

The campaign on Xbox One had just reset, I have the day off from work, no college home work as I've finished it over night. I'm a morning person so I'm all set, while the reset took place I was capturing keeps,resources,killing players and NPCs alike.

Here comes the compliant.
I captured over 6 different keeps all resources (by myself but I tagged along with a group). I wasn't in a actual group just followed them around and helped them complete things I couldn't do alone. The point is that I received little to nothing for all my work, I was ranked 29 with 75 points on the leader board after 4 keeps captured with resources . At that point I was like oh ok it must be a glitch there's no way I received so little points for all my work that I put out, unfortunately that wasn't the case.

The person who is currently ranked 1 told me he was in IC the entire time, THE ENTIRE TIME. He didn't help capture keeps, resources, repair walls, kill Players guarding the keep, or help the elder scroll get back. He accomplished none of that yet he was ranked #1.

Please ZoS tell me how is this a fair way of ranking players on the leader-board; especially when it determines who will be crowned emperor if all keeps are captured. I'm a Vet 16 Stam DK who knows his rotations pretty damn well yet you reward effort with nothing.

Feel free to discuss and flame me with every reason in the book you have but this is beyond ridiculousness

Great post man. I feel what you mean and I have exactly the same mentality as you do. There is NO REASON that people should get emperorship from AP gains as long as killing people will be the major source of gaining APs. A true emperor should be crown when his main focus is to defend his faction, his keeps, his ressources and most of all his scrolls.

This is one of the problems that have been bugging me since a long time ago and that needs to be addressed sooner or later. It is also part of my signature and I really hope emperorship will mean something other than AP farming someday.

I also wish that they will add objectives INSIDE Imperial City or Imperial Sewers to help your faction win the campaign.

MaxwellC · September 2015

@frozywozy Yup they need to do that, I'm sick and tired of "False" emperorships. I'm not going to lie before I thought, "Oh that player was crowned emperor he must've been capturing keeps like a boss" now that I know the true reason, it's an utter joke and truly defers me away from doing anything cyrodiil related.

@ZOS_RichLambert great job on changing campaign as creative director.

Ezareth · September 2015

The guy who slaughters the most enemies is always elected emperor.

Are you suggesting that he who PvDoors the map should be crowned instead?

Why reward the PvE aspect of Cyrodiil more than the PvP aspect for which it was designed. The only thing that is "False" is your understanding on what should be considered worthwhile actions in the zone.

We already have people who have farmed emperor by repairing resource towers and walls. We don't need more of those.

If you want Emperor, get out there and *kill* people.

I do think they could award bonus AP for kills that occur in keeps and resources over the freaking sewers in IC. That could help shift more PvP in the places for which it is designed.

MaxwellC · September 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

The guy who slaughters the most enemies is always elected emperor.

Are you suggesting that he who PvDoors the map should be crowned instead?

Why reward the PvE aspect of Cyrodiil more than the PvP aspect for which it was designed. The only thing that is "False" is your understanding on what should be considered worthwhile actions in the zone.

We already have people who have farmed emperor by repairing resource towers and walls. We don't need more of those.

If you want Emperor, get out there and *kill* people.

I do think they could award bonus AP for kills that occur in keeps and resources over the freaking sewers in IC. That could help shift more PvP in the places for which it is designed.

I'm sorry excuse me? I can see killing people in cyrodiil but you expect players who don't contribute in Cyrodiil to actually become emperor when they didn't capture imperial keeps.
If that's the case then get rid of being crowned emperor in general because the players who form groups and those who follow them and take down keeps, those are the players who should be a potential candidate when it comes to becoming emperor not someone who's far from the fight just spawn camping AD or EP.

MaxwellC · September 2015

@Ezareth

If this is the case then there is no need for Cyrodiil they might as well make IC and Cyrodiil separate or just make a separate server where IC is inaccessible and you can only do PvP in Cyrodiil.
All your statement says to me is that players who puts forth effort shouldn't get nothing while those who just sit around PvPing in a small PvE/PvP area should be awarded even though their contribution to the war is literally 0%

After said player was Ranked #1 I went in IC and spawn camped EP while AP came in droves, I went from being ranked 29 (After capturing keeps, resources, repairing walls, taking scrolls) to being ranked #3. If you can't see the horrible gap and inequality in the amount of effort put forth to the campaign that dictates that an emperor can only be crowned when all imperial keeps are taken by one alliance then by all means you miss the concept of cyrodiil at its foundation mate.

I find it funny how you also said PvDoor, first on foremost like I stated above becoming emperor is decided when your alliance controls all imperial keeps.
So you support this concept that a player who puts forth 0 effort to capturing keeps which are needed in order to become emperor, should be crowned emperor. I love that kind of logic, those who work gets nothing but a pat on the back while those who sit back and spawn kill gets all the rewards.

Mojmir · September 2015

For emp it could be made to where you have to x amount of each in order to qualify,but then it's like a grind.*** that lol

Suru · September 2015

Ezareth wrote: »

The guy who slaughters the most enemies is always elected emperor.

Are you suggesting that he who PvDoors the map should be crowned instead?

Why reward the PvE aspect of Cyrodiil more than the PvP aspect for which it was designed. The only thing that is "False" is your understanding on what should be considered worthwhile actions in the zone.

We already have people who have farmed emperor by repairing resource towers and walls. We don't need more of those.

If you want Emperor, get out there and *kill* people.

I do think they could award bonus AP for kills that occur in keeps and resources over the freaking sewers in IC. That could help shift more PvP in the places for which it is designed.

This^

I'd rather have an emperor that can slaughter the opposing faction than someone who can't. Eg: People who spam heals for AP~

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Ezareth

If this is the case then there is no need for Cyrodiil they might as well make IC and Cyrodiil separate or just make a separate server where IC is inaccessible and you can only do PvP in Cyrodiil.
All your statement says to me is that players who puts forth effort shouldn't get nothing while those who just sit around PvPing in a small PvE/PvP area should be awarded even though their contribution to the war is literally 0%

After said player was Ranked #1 I went in IC and spawn camped EP while AP came in droves, I went from being ranked 29 (After capturing keeps, resources, repairing walls, taking scrolls) to being ranked #3. If you can't see the horrible gap and inequality in the amount of effort put forth to the campaign that dictates that an emperor can only be crowned when all imperial keeps are taken by one alliance then by all means you miss the concept of cyrodiil at its foundation mate.

I find it funny how you also said PvDoor, first on foremost like I stated above becoming emperor is decided when your alliance controls all imperial keeps.
So you support this concept that a player who puts forth 0 effort to capturing keeps which are needed in order to become emperor, should be crowned emperor. I love that kind of logic, those who work gets nothing but a pat on the back while those who sit back and spawn kill gets all the rewards.

This is was the problem with IC coming. People care about being inside rather than outside. He who is number one does not have to worry about capping the keeps but to let the populas do it. We could have figured this problem out ages ago if IC was released many months ago. Even those who where there and capped every keep and every resource for emperorship, what would define you so different from the other wall breaker? Capping one more resource than he? AP count is ultimately the best way to elect right now.

Regardless to them not capturing anything or contributing anything to cyrodiil keep wise, I rather have the player that can kill than he who can't. As unfair as it would seem.

Xeven · September 2015

Any former emperor will tell you that you have to kill lots of people, preferably solo. Keep fights, unfortunately are usually not a good place to do that.

IC, on the other hand, is a fantastic place to do that. Cut off reinforcements, camp the sewer entrance. Ask yourself, if you were the enemy, which keep would you transport to, and which path would you take? That's where you need to go. Forget about the keeps.

MaxwellC · September 2015

@Suru If that's the case then make it so only those who contribute to the war in Cyrodiil becomes emperor. There are plenty of competent players who capture keeps and kill players outside of IC who deserve to become emperor not someone who doesn't lift a finger and spawn camps with a zerg.

Not being arrogant but I'm a decent player and I've taken on my fair share of 1 v x all the time as a declawed DK but I still followed the objective in attempts to gain the throne. Anyone can spam an AoE while a zerg of DC attacks another zerg or EP or AD, you'll still get credit for it too.

Ezareth · September 2015

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Ezareth

If this is the case then there is no need for Cyrodiil they might as well make IC and Cyrodiil separate or just make a separate server where IC is inaccessible and you can only do PvP in Cyrodiil.
All your statement says to me is that players who puts forth effort shouldn't get nothing while those who just sit around PvPing in a small PvE/PvP area should be awarded even though their contribution to the war is literally 0%

After said player was Ranked #1 I went in IC and spawn camped EP while AP came in droves, I went from being ranked 29 (After capturing keeps, resources, repairing walls, taking scrolls) to being ranked #3. If you can't see the horrible gap and inequality in the amount of effort put forth to the campaign that dictates that an emperor can only be crowned when all imperial keeps are taken by one alliance then by all means you miss the concept of cyrodiil at its foundation mate.

I find it funny how you also said PvDoor, first on foremost like I stated above becoming emperor is decided when your alliance controls all imperial keeps.
So you support this concept that a player who puts forth 0 effort to capturing keeps which are needed in order to become emperor, should be crowned emperor. I love that kind of logic, those who work gets nothing but a pat on the back while those who sit back and spawn kill gets all the rewards.

This is an old argument brought up on these forums literally dozens of times in the past.

Emperor is not a right. The rules for obtaining it are known by all at the onset. Get the most AP through any means possible. Currently you can get ~1000 AP for killing a player solo who hasn't died within 5 minutes (Which is why "Spawn Killing" as you term it awards you zero AP so unless you have a very loose characterization of the term your "droves" of AP never happened). Or you can Capture two keeps. Or you can use ~36 Wall repair kits.

Killing players on a resource of keep will also award a bonus "Defense Tick" that will split roughly the same AP to all the players within range of the keep/resource, or it will be awarded as an attack tick when that resource/keep is captured.

I said "PvDoor" because that's exactly what it had to be if you weren't getting AP for capturing the keeps/resources. I've captured at *least* 1000 keeps in my time playing and I absolutely hate it because mostly it is just waiting for seige, waiting for walls to come down, waiting for flags to flip, waiting to repair walls before moving onto the next. It's not PvP.

You guys sieged down and captured undefended (or maybe even lightly defended) resources and keeps with a group. The guy who was crowned was slogging through the trenches killing actual players. That's the only reason he ended up #1 on the alliance and why he was crowned.

The root of the problem you're seeing is the majority of the PvP is happening right now *in IC*....and not in Cyrodiil. That's a given for the stage of the game Consoles are in right now but don't worry, soon everyone will get bored of the IC grind and PvP will start happening against topside.

MaxwellC · September 2015

@Xeven I know getting kills is where it's at but that's not all there is when it comes to becoming emperor, I'm sorry but kills alone don't get you emperorship it's the keeps. Post IC I've seen many players who became emperor and it was because they were at every battle.
I would be storming a keep, while slaughtering the opposition and see the ranked #1 person doing the same thing just in order to get that imperial keep.
At this point now IC has just undermined Cyrodiil's objective which was getting scrolls,taking keeps, and killing players.

Xeven · September 2015

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Xeven I know getting kills is where it's at but that's not all there is when it comes to becoming emperor, I'm sorry but kills alone don't get you emperorship it's the keeps. Post IC I've seen many players who became emperor and it was because they were at every battle.
I would be storming a keep, while slaughtering the opposition and see the ranked #1 person doing the same thing just in order to get that imperial keep.
At this point now IC has just undermined Cyrodiil's objective which was getting scrolls,taking keeps, and killing players.

You have two former emperors in this thread telling you what they did. You can choose to do whatever you want, but I will tell you this. If your faction takes the ring, they will do it with or without you. If you want Emp, you get AP, and thats all you need to worry about.

Ezareth · September 2015

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Suru If that's the case then make it so only those who contribute to the war in Cyrodiil becomes emperor. There are plenty of competent players who capture keeps and kill players outside of IC who deserve to become emperor not someone who doesn't lift a finger and spawn camps with a zerg.

Not being arrogant but I'm a decent player and I've taken on my fair share of 1 v x all the time as a declawed DK but I still followed the objective in attempts to gain the throne. Anyone can spam an AoE while a zerg of DC attacks another zerg or EP or AD, you'll still get credit for it too.

If you want AP you usually have to do it Solo or in a good duo. Doing it in a Zerg gives you far less than the guy who is out killing solo as he only needs 1 kill for every 8 or 9 kills your zerg gets.

MaxwellC · September 2015

@Ezareth
If only that was the case, only 1 keep was unguarded until the very last second, each keep was met with opposition in a form of 5+ players (most was around 15 or 20).
Droves of AD coming in the fight with EP does give you a lot of AP especially when they run back and forth. It's not like all of them were wiped and came back, DC was mainly on defensive the entire time. I'm sure you're familiar with the Arena district where DC and EP spawns are right near by.
While DC and EP would fight it out AD would join the battle and some would die while the others survived for the time being. All in all you shouldn't be ranked in cyrodiil leaders boards at-least in my opinion when you're just camping and fighting zergs in cyrodiil where 0 effort is being done to capture keeps.

MaxwellC · September 2015

Xeven wrote: »

You have two former emperors in this thread telling you what they did. You can choose to do whatever you want, but I will tell you this. If your faction takes the ring, they will do it with or without you. If you want Emp, you get AP, and thats all you need to worry about.

I get your advice but I'm simply just explaining/ranting my opinion on how things should work when it comes to becoming emperor. It's not like I'm struggling to do so, I'm just stating that I feel that cyrodiil is pretty much useless. You would rely on someone to capture the keeps while you play solo and kill players in IC which aren't in Cyrodiil defending or attacking your keeps.
That to me is wrong since becoming emperor in cyrodiil has nothing to do with IC as being IC contributes 0% to what's going on in cyrodiil unless you take into account players getting annoyed with spawn killing and decide to go to cyrodiil for a change of pace as being a factor.

MaxwellC · September 2015

@Ezareth I don't join groups but DC spawns around me so I do get the maximum AP/ points (depending on my damage output). I'm just stating that anyone can rush into a bunch of AD/EP and drop AoE ults and spam AoEs while the zerg of your alliance who spawned behind you assists you which grants you maximum points.

frozywozy · September 2015

Even prior of IC, it was a problem. Guilds would crown an emperor in their group and defend it until the end. Once emperorship was earned, they didn't care about anything else but to protect their emp keeps. Scrolls had near to no importance for them when it should be the other way around.

I got emperorship once and when I lost it, I was defending temple of Chim like it should be. But people would rather protect their last emp keep while every last remaining home keep is getting flipped. That is wrong and is not the true meaning of emperorship in an Elder Scrolls Online game.

Keeping emperorship for a certain period of time doesn't bring more points to your faction. Keeping scrolls does. But for some reasons, AP and high alliance ranks is more important for most people than fighting to win the campaign, which is really sad.

Then people will blame the bad rewards.. they are right and I would love better rewards but it is not a sufficient reason for me to stop caring for my faction as whole and focus only on AP farming once I get emperor.

There are exceptions, of course. But usually it is how it goes.

Xeven · September 2015

I will agree with you there. They should give far more ap for seiging. Even then I dont know any hardcore PvPers that will do it unless they are trying to crown their friend.

Seiging sux. It's boring and a waste of AP.

Publius_Scipio · September 2015

As emperor FENGRUSH would cut taxes 20% across the board. Bring jobs back to Glenumbra and Wayrest. Deport all Khajiit, Argonians, and Dremora and then have them immigrate back under a new system if they so choose. A focus on rebuilding outdated and crumbling infrastructure all over Cyrodiil and Imperial City. Build a new high-speed train from Craglorn to Auridon. Double-down on education (especially for wood elves). Have the OFFICIAL FENGRUSH TWITCH CHANNEL on FREE TV all over Tamriel.

Now that is effort.

TequilaFire · September 2015

Actually my experiences lately have been "He who makes arrangements with the enemy gets Emperor."
I can't believe some of the PMs I have received to that effect by players asking me why I killed them that they had an "arrangement" with a guild leader in my alliance.

Ezareth · September 2015

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

You have two former emperors in this thread telling you what they did. You can choose to do whatever you want, but I will tell you this. If your faction takes the ring, they will do it with or without you. If you want Emp, you get AP, and thats all you need to worry about.

I get your advice but I'm simply just explaining/ranting my opinion on how things should work when it comes to becoming emperor. It's not like I'm struggling to do so, I'm just stating that I feel that cyrodiil is pretty much useless. You would rely on someone to capture the keeps while you play solo and kill players in IC which aren't in Cyrodiil defending or attacking your keeps.
That to me is wrong since becoming emperor in cyrodiil has nothing to do with IC as being IC contributes 0% to what's going on in cyrodiil unless you take into account players getting annoyed with spawn killing and decide to go to cyrodiil for a change of pace as being a factor.

The issue is just with the concentration of players in IC relative to Cyrodiil now. Frankly I would worry if AP earned in IC were unhooked from the leaderboards, PvP in IC would die altogether once people got their gear and it would become a carebear Gold/CP grind.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Ezareth I don't join groups but DC spawns around me so I do get the maximum AP/ points (depending on my damage output). I'm just stating that anyone can rush into a bunch of AD/EP and drop AoE ults and spam AoEs while the zerg of your alliance who spawned behind you assists you which grants you maximum points.

Maximum AP is determined as a percentage of damage done to a players *health* by another player as a *** over the past 5 minutes or since the player's last death. The percentage of damage you do to that players health is the percentage of his total AP that you are awarded. It is a different equation than experience awarded by killing Mobs.

Xeven wrote: »

I will agree with you there. They should give far more ap for seiging. Even then I dont know any hardcore PvPers that will do it unless they are trying to crown their friend.

Seiging sux. It's boring and a waste of AP.

I sieged 2 of my home keeps the other night (of course another player jumped on my attempt at double ballistaing) and I was done with "PvP" by the time the second keep fell. Giving AP for attacking walls should never happen but I think they should add a multiplier for Attack and Defense Ticks that reward players for successfuly capturing or defending a *defended* keep.

This would encourage players to actually play the design of the game as well as discourage the solo-ganking style that is the #1 crowning strategy in Cyrodiil. Every time I was crowned I did so by slaughtering the defenders at keeps being sieged (usually) while solo. I did not spend my time on a stone treb or ballista however.

Ezareth · September 2015

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

As emperor FENGRUSH would cut taxes 20% across the board. Bring jobs back to Glenumbra and Wayrest. Deport all Khajiit, Argonians, and Dremora and then have them immigrate back under a new system if they so choose. A focus on rebuilding outdated and crumbling infrastructure all over Cyrodiil and Imperial City. Build a new high-speed train from Craglorn to Auridon. Double-down on education (especially for wood elves). Have the OFFICIAL FENGRUSH TWITCH CHANNEL on FREE TV all over Tamriel.

Now that is effort.

Lord FENGRUSH is vacationing at Camp David right now (or is it Martha's Vineyard?) and will not be back for several days while the rest of us are doing the heavy LIFTING for you yogurt licking yuppies.

MaxwellC · September 2015

@Ezareth You would still at the very least get a large amount of AP just by using AoEs repeatedly. You are correct about IC being the main issue with getting emperor which I even said it is but AP isn't what I'm worried about as I already have 420k (after spending a lot on teleport stones for IC).

I'm only on about gaining emperorship I believe all actions that happen in Cyrodiil should be worth more than that of IC as it encourages those who also want the throne to continue their actions in Cyrodiil.

IC has it's own appeal but Cyrodiil needs it's own too.

Xeven · September 2015

Maybe not AP but they should incentivise it somehow. Im tired of seeing all the keeps owned by the same faction, including my own, but I'm certainly not going to bust out my trebuchet. I'll just go to IC or PvE or something else.

MaxwellC · September 2015

Xeven wrote: »

Maybe not AP but they should incentivise it somehow. Im tired of seeing all the keeps owned by the same faction, including my own, but I'm certainly not going to bust out my trebuchet. I'll just go to IC or PvE or something else.

That's what I'm saying, I don't need more AP just more recognition for what I'm doing in order to help the alliance war i.e. Leader board ranking. I'm talking about everyone else as a whole, whoever is contributing in cyrodiil needs more recognition for their work and not the other way around.