Done until CP system is fixed.

Araxleon · September 2015

As a amazing NB thoerycrafter and helping many people with builds and creating counters I have resorted to just that, "helping people"
my builds and counters work, I have the gear and the tactics but then I hit the CP wall, where the game basically is telling me to grind just to break even with these people.

Yes, I have beaten people with more CP then me, people with the current lead in CP but when bugs + broken skills come into play on top of the CP system I just cant counter it.

I have 230 CP currently, I dont wanna log in everyday with the mindset of "im going to do my daily grind for 3 hours to get CP" .

Hell at this point, ima just have to settle with creating builds and giving it to someone else with more CP so they can dominate these people with ease.

(When I am already breaking even and getting ties with someone that has 1500+ CP to my 230, Im okay with that but when that person with 1500+ abuses bugs and broken mechanics also its just too much)

Teargrants · September 2015

Joke's on you, back in 1.6 ZOS explicitly stated they knew CP system would lead to pronounced imbalance and that they had no intention of attempting to balance the game around that fact.

Hence here we are over 6 months later before they finally start talking about CP seasonal caps soon(TM).

Araxleon · September 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

Joke's on you, back in 1.6 ZOS explicitly stated they knew CP system would lead to pronounced imbalance and that they had no intention of attempting to balance the game around that fact.

Hence here we are over 6 months later before they finally start talking about CP seasonal caps soon(TM).

I still love the game, you arent 100% correct they DO plan to balance CP and fix it, after with speaking to them, they will only do it when it becomes a problem question is what do they consider a problem

FireCowCommando · September 2015

They just said today there adding a CP cap with the next update, you obviously have a solid understanding of game mechanics as i know first hand (hey buddy!).

In your mind what is a reasonable cap to add? What would you raise the cap by every 3 months?

IxSTALKERxI · September 2015

Araxleon wrote: »

question is what do they consider a problem

Soloing Molag Bal.

Soulac · September 2015

Araxleon wrote: »

As a amazing NB thoerycrafter and helping many people with builds and creating counters I have resorted to just that, "helping people"
my builds and counters work, I have the gear and the tactics but then I hit the CP wall, where the game basically is telling me to grind just to break even with these people.

Yes, I have beaten people with more CP then me, people with the current lead in CP but when bugs + broken skills come into play on top of the CP system I just cant counter it.

I have 230 CP currently, I dont wanna log in everyday with the mindset of "im going to do my daily grind for 3 hours to get CP" .

Hell at this point, ima just have to settle with creating builds and giving it to someone else with more CP so they can dominate these people with ease.

(When I am already breaking even and getting ties with someone that has 1500+ CP to my 230, Im okay with that but when that person with 1500+ abuses bugs and broken mechanics also its just too much)

So... this means goodbye?

Zos says much, but even a cap or something around that will only delay problems.

kevlarto_ESO · September 2015

Araxleon wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Joke's on you, back in 1.6 ZOS explicitly stated they knew CP system would lead to pronounced imbalance and that they had no intention of attempting to balance the game around that fact.

Hence here we are over 6 months later before they finally start talking about CP seasonal caps soon(TM).

I still love the game, you arent 100% correct they DO plan to balance CP and fix it, after with speaking to them, they will only do it when it becomes a problem question is what do they consider a problem

I think they are starting to consider it a problem now, watch the last ESO live Rich did not like the fact some one was soloing the molog in the IC, plus I am sure they are getting many complaints from players about other players they think are cheating when it is just the cp power gap, I think ZOS jumped the gun on this one and should have never released the cp with out a stop gap measure in place, so many game companies always playing catch up and losing players and revenue over bad decisions, the handful of crazy cp grinders I am sure is not enough players to sustain the game on their own.

Nefrast · September 2015

FireCowCommando wrote: »

In your mind what is a reasonable cap to add? What would you raise the cap by every 3 months?

I have 100 CPs and earn about 1 CP every 2 days, a rate which is rapidly declining. What's a reasonable cap that allows me to fight others on even terms? Why are people like me denied to fight others on even terms? Are we so few that they don't care?

Yonkit · September 2015

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

question is what do they consider a problem

Soloing Molag Bal.

please... folks have been able to solo *** in this game long before the CP system was introduced. Molag Bal is a soft hitting high hp target. Making a build to solo him just involves a small measure of tankiness+sustain. Nothing tricky there at all.

Otherwise, sorry Araxleon

catch you later.

Araxleon · September 2015

FireCowCommando wrote: »

They just said today there adding a CP cap with the next update, you obviously have a solid understanding of game mechanics as i know first hand (hey buddy!).

In your mind what is a reasonable cap to add? What would you raise the cap by every 3 months?

400 starting

Yonkit wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

question is what do they consider a problem

Soloing Molag Bal.

please... folks have been able to solo *** in this game long before the CP system was introduced. Molag Bal is a soft hitting high hp target. Making a build to solo him just involves a small measure of tankiness+sustain. Nothing tricky there at all.

Otherwise, sorry Araxleon catch you later.

I was surprised it took molag for them to understand, I thought it was obvious you coulds
could solo it,

Poxheart · September 2015

The concept of the champion system is a good one, but the problem (as always) is the way it was implemented. That a player can eventually accrue enough points to max out every tree is the problem. This is why people are grinding them and why there's such a power gap. If the system was such that champion points had a permanent max and players had to make a choice on where to put those points, then I don't think things would be as bad as they are. That is, something similar to the system WAR had.

danno8 · September 2015

The s*** has been on a clear trajectory towards the fan for 6 months now. Many of us saw it coming and clearly asked for either strong diminishing returns, a cap, a catch up mechanism for newcomers or just SOMETHING to reign in the huge power creep.

All could have been avoided with strong diminishing returns. It puts a virtual cap on the amount you can earn and also serves as a catch-up mechanism for new people. 2 birds, one stone.

Hydrocodone · September 2015

I know for a fact that at least 100 if not 100s exploited 600-800 CP in the 1st week of the system going live. They all received a 1 week ban and were allowed to keep those CPs. From my pov these people are exploiting every time they log in. That's why ZOS has received a total of $14.99 USD from myself since 1.6 went live. I have no plans to give them 1 more penny. I got every thing I need from Gank City. I paid to beta test the came up until Buy to Play. ZOS knows who these people are and they need to retroactively remove those CP that were exploited +%10. They've lost more subs from people that said F this than they would have if they had perma banned these scumbags. I would go so far as to say many would return to the game if the Devs sorted out these A__holes.

eliisra · September 2015

Araxleon wrote: »

I was surprised it took molag for them to understand, I thought it was obvious you coulds
could solo it

For sure. I mean, you'd think they would have spotted it earlier, like already back on 1.6 PTS, where 3500 CP builds where solo'ing VDSA, Vdungeons and trial bosses in crappy PTS gear.

But nope, CP only gives a minor boost(cant believe some fanbois+grinders still hold on to this massive lie), apparently the game is all about "skill"

AhPook_Is_Here · September 2015

(t*cwc)/%afk*100=skill

Manoekin · September 2015

Poxheart wrote: »

The concept of the champion system is a good one, but the problem (as always) is the way it was implemented. That a player can eventually accrue enough points to max out every tree is the problem. This is why people are grinding them and why there's such a power gap. If the system was such that champion points had a permanent max and players had to make a choice on where to put those points, then I don't think things would be as bad as they are. That is, something similar to the system WAR had.

Yeah, I've been advocating an 1800 point cap since the CS PTS. It makes no sense to allow people to get everything. 1800 might be too much, but i think less would be a little too restricting for me.

Synozeer · September 2015

Manoekin wrote: »

Yeah, I've been advocating an 1800 point cap since the CS PTS. It makes no sense to allow people to get everything. 1800 might be too much, but i think less would be a little too restricting for me.

Totally agree, I've been saying the same thing. Put a limit on CP and make people have to choose what to pick.

DisgracefulMind · September 2015

Hydrocodone wrote: »

I know for a fact that at least 100 if not 100s exploited 600-800 CP in the 1st week of the system going live. They all received a 1 week ban and were allowed to keep those CPs. From my pov these people are exploiting every time they log in. That's why ZOS has received a total of $14.99 USD from myself since 1.6 went live. I have no plans to give them 1 more penny. I got every thing I need from Gank City. I paid to beta test the came up until Buy to Play. ZOS knows who these people are and they need to retroactively remove those CP that were exploited +%10. They've lost more subs from people that said F this than they would have if they had perma banned these scumbags. I would go so far as to say many would return to the game if the Devs sorted out these A__holes.

Hundreds did not exploit 600-800 CP within the first week. If that were the case there would be an extremely large amount of people running around with 1500 CP, and there's not. It's really sad that people continue to make up rumors to hurt the game.

As for CP. I understand that it can be frustrating with the imbalances; however, 230 CP means you took a break, yes? This is where a catch-up mechanic needs to be implemented, completely. The only thing about a catch up mechanic, however, is that if it in any way takes away the progression from someone who has played more than another, it ruins any point in continuing to play. What ZoS needs to do is implement a reasonable way for people to catch up to the current CP cap, but make it so that those who have already invested more time into the CP system aren't ripped off and caught up to by the new cap increase. I'm sorry, but that's the way it should be. Since I'm at 530 CP, I've played mostly daily since the CP system was released, and, no, I barely grinded, why should someone be able to catch up quickly to the time I have dedicated when they have not dedicated the same or similar. Without progression, what is the point in playing?

Erondil · September 2015

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Without progression, what is the point in playing?

Just PvP and have fun? I mean, there were no such progression system in 1.5, and still I had plenty of fun and was rarely bored of the game.

AhPook_Is_Here · September 2015

I hope if the implement caps they are more in the 500 range. I get that people want to have a strong edge over other players and get rewarded for the time they play but a lot of problems arise from game-play that is overly biased towards stats over skills.

Take a new player, say they are a smart, "skilled" player and put them up against another smart "skilled" player with 2000 CPs. What chance does the player with no CPs have against the player with 2000? Obviously they would have no chance at all, and if you were a skilled player would you tolerate a game that didn't reward your ability but awarded victory to the best goblin farmer in CWC?

How about old players wanting to return? Would a very competitive person who took a break the last three months return to a game where they had a massive statistical disadvantage and have a very small chance at winning most fights even against players they could consistently beat before taking a break?

I don't think progression is as powerful a motivator as fun. If you are going to cut the "fun" for returning and new players this game will end up with the population base that this sort of calculus leads to. People play MMOs for a statistical advantage, but if the advantage becomes too extreme it will alienate people who can't allocate the time to keep up with that advantage. I mentioned in another thread a guild that played this game at launch with over 1k active members, they had very high hopes for this game, now most of them are back in GW2 PVPing every night of the week, and a dozen or so remain here doing small group stuff 1 or 2 nights a week. GW2 doesn't have progression beyond personal skill development after the first few weeks. This is my argument that you don't really need progression; you need a game that is fun, stays fun, and encourages fun interaction with other players.

lifefrombelowb14_ESO · September 2015

Yonkit wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

question is what do they consider a problem

Soloing Molag Bal.

please... folks have been able to solo *** in this game long before the CP system was introduced. Molag Bal is a soft hitting high hp target. Making a build to solo him just involves a small measure of tankiness+sustain. Nothing tricky there at all.

Otherwise, sorry Araxleon catch you later.

lol he's talking about the new one in the center of the IC not the main quest version. The guy who solo'd it was the emperor on that server.

Draxys · September 2015

Erondil wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Without progression, what is the point in playing?

Just PvP and have fun? I mean, there were no such progression system in 1.5, and still I had plenty of fun and was rarely bored of the game.

This. Even if they had quit working on the game and 1.5 stayed the way it was until now, I'd still be playing because it was fun. Now I haven't logged in weeks.

Cody · September 2015

Draxys wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Without progression, what is the point in playing?

Just PvP and have fun? I mean, there were no such progression system in 1.5, and still I had plenty of fun and was rarely bored of the game.

This. Even if they had quit working on the game and 1.5 stayed the way it was until now, I'd still be playing because it was fun. Now I haven't logged in weeks.

you and me both. I haven't logged in 3 months

timidobserver · September 2015

FireCowCommando wrote: »

They just said today there adding a CP cap with the next update, you obviously have a solid understanding of game mechanics as i know first hand (hey buddy!).

In your mind what is a reasonable cap to add? What would you raise the cap by every 3 months?

By the time next update hits in December, there will probably be people nearing 3k cps. Though, I guess we can hope that the GW2 expansion is going to motivate them to fast track the update.

Yonkit · September 2015

lifefrombelowb14_ESO wrote: »

Yonkit wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Araxleon wrote: »

question is what do they consider a problem

Soloing Molag Bal.

please... folks have been able to solo *** in this game long before the CP system was introduced. Molag Bal is a soft hitting high hp target. Making a build to solo him just involves a small measure of tankiness+sustain. Nothing tricky there at all.

Otherwise, sorry Araxleon catch you later.

lol he's talking about the new one in the center of the IC not the main quest version. The guy who solo'd it was the emperor on that server.

Yes... you wouldn't have to be emp or have tons of cp to solo that. Not to discredit meth's good work, but the guy solo'ing Lord Warden without emp buffs and less cp in a much more engaging and nuanced fight was a good example of what a strong pve'r can do.

sabresandiego_ESO · September 2015

There needs to be CP caps added immediately, and heavy catch up mechanics. I didnt play for several months and only just now hit 300 CP, and am regularly fighting people over 500 CP. 200 CP makes a HUGE difference and its a gigantic uphill battle.

Completely agree with OP

Ezareth · September 2015

Hydrocodone wrote: »

I know for a fact that at least 100 if not 100s exploited 600-800 CP in the 1st week of the system going live. They all received a 1 week ban and were allowed to keep those CPs. From my pov these people are exploiting every time they log in. That's why ZOS has received a total of $14.99 USD from myself since 1.6 went live. I have no plans to give them 1 more penny. I got every thing I need from Gank City. I paid to beta test the came up until Buy to Play. ZOS knows who these people are and they need to retroactively remove those CP that were exploited +%10. They've lost more subs from people that said F this than they would have if they had perma banned these scumbags. I would go so far as to say many would return to the game if the Devs sorted out these A__holes.

How moronic. They stated that the highest CP player in the game at the time had 150 CPs right after they fixed that. Most of us were far below that, I think I was at around 94.

I'm just over 400 CPs, I took a month off and while I've grinded some, I haven't done so very long and I make at best 1 1/2 CPs an hour mainly to catch up a bit to others. If Osrinium is launched in December then the cap needs between 600 and 700 CPs as if a season consists of 3 months or so, most active players like myself need some level of progression. I know 90%+ of the hardcore PvPers are sitting at the 400-500CP range right now, with maybe 5-10% of players who spend 6-8 hours a day playing quite a bit beyond that.

When they institute caps they also should institute a catchup mechanic like permanent enlightened until you are 300 CPs below cap or something. This gives a fair level of "progression" between the most active players and casuals without completely breaking the sense of competition.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · September 2015

Erondil wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Without progression, what is the point in playing?

Just PvP and have fun? I mean, there were no such progression system in 1.5, and still I had plenty of fun and was rarely bored of the game.

THIS. Exactly this. Cries of "Mah Progressunz" from PvP'ers is just as bad as "Mah Immerzunz" from PvE'ers. Both are terrible for the game.

Why do some people insist on having a meaninless vertical progression system of fake internet points just so they can feel better than other players who have less time to grind? Stop parroting that BS that people will quit the game if they dont have something to work for. What about highly enjoyable, replayable content that we had in 1.5?

PvP in this game is most enjoyable when there is a huge build diversity, tons of different gear sets, hybrid builds etc. 1.5 was a theorycrafters paradise. Now its just stack damage and spam highest hitting skill. All of that diversity and theorycrafting was thrown out for meaningless and boring stat increases.

CP doesn't do anything cool for your character. Doesn't give your character access to new skills, interesting abilities, or gear. It just makes you hit 25% harder than someone without CPs.

We played with this on the PTS before the champ system was released and at 3600 CP, cyrodill became no fun so quickly. It was just a bunch of people spamming wrecking blow. OH WAIT, that's exactly what happened. Imagine that.

Bring back softcaps, scrap CP.

Insurrektion · September 2015

They probably should be capping CP based on level. Unless they've decided they don't want new players to join the game only for them to find out they are ridiculously incredibly far behind and will literally never catch up.

Edit: I played since beta and 4 months into release. I quit because of massive Cyrodiil lag and Magicka Dunmer Vampire DKs being the only viable build. I felt game developers falsely advertised the game touting pvp as a cornerstone attraction to players, thereby implying pvp would be addressed and I felt pvp was by and large being left unbalanced and ignored. I recently came back because the game is free now and I read that magicka dunmer vampire DKs weren't the be-all-end-all of pvp and that there was more to offer from other classes. Now I read this thread and am considering going back to Diablo 3 or maybe even FF14. Why bother if I'm so far behind?

Rhakon · September 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Without progression, what is the point in playing?

Just PvP and have fun? I mean, there were no such progression system in 1.5, and still I had plenty of fun and was rarely bored of the game.

THIS. Exactly this. Cries of "Mah Progressunz" from PvP'ers is just as bad as "Mah Immerzunz" from PvE'ers. Both are terrible for the game.

Why do some people insist on having a meaninless vertical progression system of fake internet points just so they can feel better than other players who have less time to grind? Stop parroting that BS that people will quit the game if they dont have something to work for. What about highly enjoyable, replayable content that we had in 1.5?

PvP in this game is most enjoyable when there is a huge build diversity, tons of different gear sets, hybrid builds etc. 1.5 was a theorycrafters paradise. Now its just stack damage and spam highest hitting skill. All of that diversity and theorycrafting was thrown out for meaningless and boring stat increases.

CP doesn't do anything cool for your character. Doesn't give your character access to new skills, interesting abilities, or gear. It just makes you hit 25% harder than someone without CPs.

We played with this on the PTS before the champ system was released and at 3600 CP, cyrodill became no fun so quickly. It was just a bunch of people spamming wrecking blow. OH WAIT, that's exactly what happened. Imagine that.

Bring back softcaps, scrap CP.

Amen!

manny254 · September 2015

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Without progression, what is the point in playing?

Just PvP and have fun? I mean, there were no such progression system in 1.5, and still I had plenty of fun and was rarely bored of the game.

THIS. Exactly this. Cries of "Mah Progressunz" from PvP'ers is just as bad as "Mah Immerzunz" from PvE'ers. Both are terrible for the game.

Why do some people insist on having a meaninless vertical progression system of fake internet points just so they can feel better than other players who have less time to grind? Stop parroting that BS that people will quit the game if they dont have something to work for. What about highly enjoyable, replayable content that we had in 1.5?

PvP in this game is most enjoyable when there is a huge build diversity, tons of different gear sets, hybrid builds etc. 1.5 was a theorycrafters paradise. Now its just stack damage and spam highest hitting skill. All of that diversity and theorycrafting was thrown out for meaningless and boring stat increases.

CP doesn't do anything cool for your character. Doesn't give your character access to new skills, interesting abilities, or gear. It just makes you hit 25% harder than someone without CPs.

We played with this on the PTS before the champ system was released and at 3600 CP, cyrodill became no fun so quickly. It was just a bunch of people spamming wrecking blow. OH WAIT, that's exactly what happened. Imagine that.

Bring back softcaps, scrap CP.

Sorry but what you say about 1.5 is just not true. If anything 1.6 was much better for theory crafting. The true purpose of soft cap is to prevent bad builds from falling too far behind good builds. It prevents players from trying to be the best at something. It was the paradise of mediocrity. If anything 1.5 shoe horned pvp builds much more than 1.6. How many builds used seducer warlock in 1.5? How many tank builds used hist bark? In 1.6 there is the constant trade of sustain vs damage. There where an insane amount of combinations for stam builds, and plenty for magic builds. You talk about simply stacking a damage stat as high as possible, but this is silly. I would love to see a cyrodiil like this because most the people that play this game can not handle the resource management of a true 100% dps spec with no sustain elements.