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Would it be useful to have an actual price checker in game?
Blackbird_V
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There is one called Master Merchant, which does quite a few things, and give average price on items sold in guild stores. Downside is that it only gives average from the guilds you are current in.
If we had ZOS make a price checker that is global throughout all guilds (be it average, checking prices individually etc.) it would be a good idea.
Thoughts?
If we had ZOS make a price checker that is global throughout all guilds (be it average, checking prices individually etc.) it would be a good idea.
Thoughts?
Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.
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Blackbird_V✭✭✭✭✭
✭MudcrabsRus wrote: »Before Zos gets to that, text chat.
Sure if they had a group working for Xbox/PS.
How do you feel that us PC users already have text chat? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Edited by Blackbird_V on September 23, 2015 6:00PMDifficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 25 DLCs. 41 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game.0 -
ontheleftcoast✭✭✭✭✭You want to change the fundamental design of buying/selling in Tamriel.
Right now, on purpose, it works with a minimum of information available to both buyers and sellers. For example, yesterday I found a VR16 Agility necklace with stamina. I asked for pricing on it and got numbers from 170K to 500K. WTF?!
But this confusion works. Sellers can find people willing to pay inflated prices and savvy buyers can scrounge for bargains. "70 for Nightwood in Belkarth? I saw it for 27 in that kiosk in Windhelm!"
If you create a market where everyone knows the "best" price it will also punish sellers who have to continually relist things. RIght now if I ask 150 for some item and sell a stack of 20 I pay a listing fee. If that price drops to 140 and everyone knows about it then I'll have to yank my product and relist it.. now I'm out a *SECOND* listing fee.
In short Tamriel is not the NYSE and up to the minute pricing of every thing all the time probably isn't a great idea in the end.
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Zorrashi✭✭✭✭✭
I'm with this guy. Such a global "price check" implies there is only one proper price per item regardless of regional supply and demand differences.ontheleftcoast wrote: »You want to change the fundamental design of buying/selling in Tamriel.
Right now, on purpose, it works with a minimum of information available to both buyers and sellers. For example, yesterday I found a VR16 Agility necklace with stamina. I asked for pricing on it and got numbers from 170K to 500K. WTF?!
But this confusion works. Sellers can find people willing to pay inflated prices and savvy buyers can scrounge for bargains. "70 for Nightwood in Belkarth? I saw it for 27 in that kiosk in Windhelm!"
If you create a market where everyone knows the "best" price it will also punish sellers who have to continually relist things. RIght now if I ask 150 for some item and sell a stack of 20 I pay a listing fee. If that price drops to 140 and everyone knows about it then I'll have to yank my product and relist it.. now I'm out a *SECOND* listing fee.
In short Tamriel is not the NYSE and up to the minute pricing of every thing all the time probably isn't a great idea in the end.
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CromulentForumID✭✭✭✭ontheleftcoast wrote: »But this confusion works. Sellers can find people willing to pay inflated prices and savvy buyers can scrounge for bargains. "70 for Nightwood in Belkarth? I saw it for 27 in that kiosk in Windhelm!"
You say scrounging for bargains. I say going to a lot of effort to find a reasonable price.
It's not a bargain, IMO, if it is only cheaper than outright lunacy. I saw a stack of worms for sale for 20K, and regular blue motifs for 5K. Level 1 recipes for 500. I had to stop browsing because I was throwing up in my mouth.
Give me a cornered market on a couple of high-end goods any day in exchange for being able to find normal, every day goods available at at a reasonable price.
Now, given the price of purchasing a guild stall, I don't blame some guild members for posting things at really high prices. You have to pay for that trader. But wow, I can't look at some of the prices - and listen to area chat in marketplaces - and see more than people using the limited information to screw over other players.2 -
CromulentForumID✭✭✭✭I'm with this guy. Such a global "price check" implies there is only one proper price per item regardless of regional supply and demand differences.
I agree with you, but I hear a lot of players in area chat talking about "that's the price."
"X for sale for Y!"
"What, that's outrageous!"
"Hey, that's the price, that's what they go for."
And then the person just agrees. "Oh, that's the price? Then OK."
Maybe at that point they deserve it if they get ripped off, but the alternative is to play Wayshrine Tourist and check out all the trading areas.
Players are certainly treating things like there is one price out there, so I don't think having some kind of official tool that at least shows an average or something similar would be too terrible. You would have to label it as an average or something similar, though, and not "THE Price!!"
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RatedChaotic✭✭✭✭I agree with both sides on this. Most people just need to be more realistic with prices is all. Just because its the first time you found this or that item doesnt mean its worth 500k. I can put a beet in for 500k doesnt mean its worth 500k. Its a new dlc new items will be priced high. Doesnt mean you have to buy it. In many cases I laugh and pass.Edited by RatedChaotic on September 23, 2015 6:53PM0
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Oberon45✭✭✭I like that there is no global price check feature (or auction house etc.). Until about 20 years ago trading on Earth was the same as trading in ESO as it stands now.
e.g. There is an item you really want, but none of the stores in your town have it except for one and it is priced really high. There are other stores in the town next door, but do you really want to go there on a Saturday with no guarantee that they have the item in stock or at a lower price? Do you pay the high price, try the next town, or give up on getting the item that you want that day. ?
Any good RP game forces players to make decisions, and this style of buying/selling forces players to make them. Internet style shopping just hasn't made it to Tamriel yet.
(just one mans opinion. I can see why others would like such a feature, but I like the system as is. Is it frustrating when you cannot find what you want, sure, but it makes finding something you want/need at a good price more satisfying.)
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ontheleftcoast✭✭✭✭✭CromulentForumID wrote: »ontheleftcoast wrote: »But this confusion works. Sellers can find people willing to pay inflated prices and savvy buyers can scrounge for bargains. "70 for Nightwood in Belkarth? I saw it for 27 in that kiosk in Windhelm!"
Give me a cornered market on a couple of high-end goods any day in exchange for being able to find normal, every day goods available at at a reasonable price.
I put an hour or more in each day to farm mats. How much do you think my time is worth? 1 gold per item? 10? 100?
Gathering enough Nightwood to make a stack available takes a lot of effort. If you're too lazy to do it yourself or to shop around then don't blame the guy selling it for 70 in Belkarth so you can quickly complete your crafting writ and maybe score a glass motif fragment.
Markets are about supply and demand. If demand for a product is higher in Belkarth then the price will be higher there.
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PinoZino✭✭✭✭BlackbirdV wrote: »There is one called Master Merchant, which does quite a few things, and give average price on items sold in guild stores. Downside is that it only gives average from the guilds you are current in.
If we had ZOS make a price checker that is global throughout all guilds (be it average, checking prices individually etc.) it would be a good idea.
Thoughts?
The average price is a wrong approach anyway.
a) Because it deals about the average listed prices, not sell prices.
b) It can be misleading too. Suppose you have item x and it's listed for 1 gp in 5 shops and for 50 gp in 1 shop. The average would be 9,1 gp. Wish you good luck by selling this item for 9.1
Founder of Tradelodge, a trade guild operating on the European Megaserver for Playstation®4.
Visit our website: http://tradelodge.blogspot.com/0 -
Tors✭✭✭✭✭People continually ask to dumb down games, from making it less effort to level, to making it easier to do things with a single click and no need to interact with the game.
Why?
Do you not understand why you find the game fun in the first place?
The removal of haveing to do something within a game makes that game boring (generally)
Taking away effort removes any feeling of accomplishment.
Making dungeons able to be completed by the lowest common denominator means that once completed, you never go back
A single auction house would trash the trade in this game, and what you are asking for here is a single auction house with many outletsBetter late Than Pregnant....
The shadow cabinet, a group of people who pretend to have jobs they do not actually have
EU PC - Azura's Star
Decimation Elite - Raid Jester1 -
failkiwib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭People continually ask to dumb down games, from making it less effort to level, to making it easier to do things with a single click and no need to interact with the game.
Why?
Do you not understand why you find the game fun in the first place?
The removal of haveing to do something within a game makes that game boring (generally)
Taking away effort removes any feeling of accomplishment.
Making dungeons able to be completed by the lowest common denominator means that once completed, you never go back
A single auction house would trash the trade in this game, and what you are asking for here is a single auction house with many outlets
People have a life and don't want to spend hours going from trader to trader, to see if they can buy a single recipe they need for their writs or collection (and the item may not even be up for sale, which makes it a complete waste of time). This is a very annoying thing for a lot of buyers and sellers.0 -
CromulentForumID✭✭✭✭People continually ask to dumb down games, from making it less effort to level, to making it easier to do things with a single click and no need to interact with the game.
Why?
Do you not understand why you find the game fun in the first place?
The removal of haveing to do something within a game makes that game boring (generally)
Taking away effort removes any feeling of accomplishment.
People continually ask to keep meaningless time sinks in the game because that is how they all used to be. Can't these people realize that not everyone can play 24/7? Don't they realize not everyone lives in mom's basement?
Can't they understand that not everyone finds it fun to run around for an hour checking prices? Can't they realize people find absolutely no sense of accomplishment because they managed to find a price after clicking a couple of buttons?
That was all sarcastic, by the way. I actually don't think people who like the current system are "wrong" or anything like that. I just wanted to illustrate that you are telling people how they should be having fun with the game. Players can enjoy the process of shopping as much as they can see it as a foolish waste of time. In fact, there are players who would consider hopping from city to city checking prices to be not really playing the game at all. No one is right or wrong, really, but I don't think it's unreasonable for people to NOT think of finding a good price as some kind of accomplishment.1 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's nice to know that if I ever want to hire an economics major, all I have to do is go to an MMO forum.signing off0 -
CromulentForumID✭✭✭✭ontheleftcoast wrote: »I put an hour or more in each day to farm mats. How much do you think my time is worth? 1 gold per item? 10? 100?
Gathering enough Nightwood to make a stack available takes a lot of effort. If you're too lazy to do it yourself or to shop around then don't blame the guy selling it for 70 in Belkarth so you can quickly complete your crafting writ and maybe score a glass motif fragment.
Markets are about supply and demand. If demand for a product is higher in Belkarth then the price will be higher there.
Good job choosing an example that is not subject at all to RNG so you can accuse me of laziness What about things like recipes? Motifs? Research traits? LRN2Container?
For the record, you should charge as much as you want for raw materials. People who purchase them have to realize they are paying a "time saver premium" for things they could pick up off of the ground. I have never laughed harder in this game than the time I heard a kid pleading for someone in Audiron to sell him rawhide, when 10 steps to his right there were beaches and beaches of mudcrabs. He was at it for a half hour.
Some things just have nothing to do with effort, and everything to do with luck. You are not a better player than I am because you got a motif from that dresser and I got a beet. A market does a good job of filling in the gaps, but our current system can fall short because the people selling realize that buyers have very little idea about what the "supply" you are quick to point out actually is.0 -
kargen27✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't worry myself with am I paying a fair price or charging a fair price. It is to me just a matter of what I want for something or what I am willing to give for something. If it is something I want immediately (certain rings as I level for instance) I will go from trader to trader to try and find one at the price I am willing to pay. If I see several I might do some price checking but I don't worry to much about finding the best price.
Just for fun I am trying to get every recipe in the game for one character. Those recipes are not things I need right away so I only check traders that happen to be near where I am. I have every green recipe now and most I got for much less than 100 gold. One I paid over 5000 gold for because it was one of the last I needed and talking to others also collecting recipes they hadn't seen one either. To most people it would be worth about 20 gold coins maybe. For me the 5000 was great because I had been looking for it for so long.
A friend in my guild spends a lot of his time searching for bargains he can turn for a quick profit. He keeps track of prices and enjoys going from trader to trader looking for the good deals. He also is in three trading guilds and decides what he will place for sale in each one based on where their trader is. For him that is the fun part of the game. For me that would be tedious. The great thing about how the system works now is it makes both of us happy.
I can go from trader to trader looking for that certain item that might be special just to me, and he can go searching for bargains not worrying about what the item actually is, just what the price is. Right now there are huge discrepancies in prices in the game and to me that is a good thing. If we knew the average price of everything then prices would become stagnant and that would become boring. If we had a central auction house same thing. There would be no gaming aspect to finding and purchasing items. Would just be a boring trip to town from time to time.
The way the economy works now allows for many different kinds of interactions with that system. Knowing average prices or having a central place to buy would take away most that. Sure sometimes it is a bit tedious (so was catching that last fish I needed for the master angler achievement) but overall as a system it adds something to the game the way it is now.
and then the parrot said, "must be the water mines green too."2 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭The fact there isn't a global auction house or a global price checker means I can get more money out of people who don't want to shop around.0 -
Pheefs✭✭✭✭✭BlackbirdV wrote: »
If we had ZOS make a price checker that is global throughout all guilds (be it average, checking prices individually etc.) it would be a good idea.
Thoughts?
No thank you, I like that the prices vary, and you have to take your chances... it makes it fun.
& if we can see the average of what everyone is charging, then everyone's prices will balance out to be around the same.The fact there isn't a global auction house or a global price checker means I can get more money out of people who don't want to shop around.
exactly!
& there'd be no more joy when I find a really-REALLY good deal on stacks of alchemy ingredients or motifs!
{ Forums are Weird........................ Nerfy nerfing nerf nerfers, buff you b'netches!....................... Popcorn popcorn! }1 -
ontheleftcoast✭✭✭✭✭CromulentForumID wrote: »ontheleftcoast wrote: »I put an hour or more in each day to farm mats. How much do you think my time is worth? 1 gold per item? 10? 100?
Gathering enough Nightwood to make a stack available takes a lot of effort. If you're too lazy to do it yourself or to shop around then don't blame the guy selling it for 70 in Belkarth so you can quickly complete your crafting writ and maybe score a glass motif fragment.
Markets are about supply and demand. If demand for a product is higher in Belkarth then the price will be higher there.
Good job choosing an example that is not subject at all to RNG so you can accuse me of laziness What about things like recipes? Motifs? Research traits? LRN2Container?
For the record, you should charge as much as you want for raw materials. People who purchase them have to realize they are paying a "time saver premium" for things they could pick up off of the ground. I have never laughed harder in this game than the time I heard a kid pleading for someone in Audiron to sell him rawhide, when 10 steps to his right there were beaches and beaches of mudcrabs. He was at it for a half hour.
Some things just have nothing to do with effort, and everything to do with luck. You are not a better player than I am because you got a motif from that dresser and I got a beet. A market does a good job of filling in the gaps, but our current system can fall short because the people selling realize that buyers have very little idea about what the "supply" you are quick to point out actually is.
What you see as "luck" I see as "time". While I have issues with the RNG in this game.I never bought a trait or motif for first few too a. It seemed to take FOREVER to fill those in. Then I realized was being short-sighted and not valuing my time spent.CromulentForumID wrote: »ontheleftcoast wrote: »I put an hour or more in each day to farm mats. How much do you think my time is worth? 1 gold per item? 10? 100?
Gathering enough Nightwood to make a stack available takes a lot of effort. If you're too lazy to do it yourself or to shop around then don't blame the guy selling it for 70 in Belkarth so you can quickly complete your crafting writ and maybe score a glass motif fragment.
Markets are about supply and demand. If demand for a product is higher in Belkarth then the price will be higher there.
Good job choosing an example that is not subject at all to RNG so you can accuse me of laziness What about things like recipes? Motifs? Research traits? LRN2Container?
For the record, you should charge as much as you want for raw materials. People who purchase them have to realize they are paying a "time saver premium" for things they could pick up off of the ground. I have never laughed harder in this game than the time I heard a kid pleading for someone in Audiron to sell him rawhide, when 10 steps to his right there were beaches and beaches of mudcrabs. He was at it for a half hour.
Some things just have nothing to do with effort, and everything to do with luck. You are not a better player than I am because you got a motif from that dresser and I got a beet. A market does a good job of filling in the gaps, but our current system can fall short because the people selling realize that buyers have very little idea about what the "supply" you are quick to point out actually is.
First let me clarify (or perhaps apologize) I said "lazy" but what I really should point out is you're making what I consider to be a very poor choice on valuing your time relative to others. You complain about finding motifs and traits on weapons/armor as if it is somehow different than finding materials. It really isn't, not in the larger picture.
Consider this, I have to wander Tamriel to find those mats. Other players may have already harvested nodes or killed monsters that drop hides -- a factor beyond my control. Assuming I find the node I have no control as to the amount or kind -- for alchemy you get "fungus" nodes or "water plant" nodes not "Imp Stool" or "Nirnroot" nodes. Enchanting nodes are even worse, it's going to be a stone but it could be any flavor and sometime multiple levels. I hate getting VR7 stones in VR14 zones in Cyrodiil.
But even on wood nodes I can get from 3 to 16 so it means I have no idea how many nodes I'll have to visit. Which means I have to visit potentially a hundred or more potential nodes to get the 250 or so Rough Nightwood I need to make a stack. Oh, yeah, more random goodness. Process 100 raw mats and you could get anywhere from 70 to 100 finished ones. This isn't really that different from looking in 100 containers to find a random motif.
When I first started playing I refused to pay for traits to train or motifs. I wasted a lot of time hunting for these myself. Now I pay attention to what I see in chat and the various kiosks to get a rough idea what I can sell for and buy at and make a judgment call. I've sold plenty of goods and bought plenty and don't feel I'm wasting my gold supply -- or my time -- anymore.
Edited by ontheleftcoast on September 23, 2015 9:50PM0 -
CromulentForumID✭✭✭✭ontheleftcoast wrote: »What you see as "luck" I see as "time". While I have issues with the RNG in this game.I never bought a trait or motif for first few too a. It seemed to take FOREVER to fill those in. Then I realized was being short-sighted and not valuing my time spent.
[snip]
First let me clarify (or perhaps apologize) I said "lazy" but what I really should point out is you're making what I consider to be a very poor choice on valuing your time relative to others. You complain about finding motifs and traits on weapons/armor as if it is somehow different than finding materials. It really isn't, not in the larger picture.
I am not really complaining, I am just stating that it is different. It is a lot different. You can pick up wood to get wood. You can pick up ore to get ore. You can grab clothing materials for clothing. You can kill animals for hides. You can open containers and get...a whole boatload of things. You are never mining some ore and getting a set of boots or a bunch of garlic. You can't go to a jewelry node. There isn't a way to be smarter or better at getting RNG loot. You can open more containers per hour, but nothing you do determines if you get what you want or even good things.
Where is my poor choice? I am trying to see how I am valuing my time poorly. I should play in a certain way to to get more expensive things to sell?
I spend my time questing and exploring, and I pick things up along the way. I personally am not targeting anything specific. I have some things I would like to have, but nothing I need or need to buy. I just hate it when players somehow think that they have some magic way to approach the game, and that players who do not get random loot somehow need to L2P. Or that they must be lazy if they don't get it themselves. In this case I guess you are saying...L2P(rice)?ontheleftcoast wrote: »Consider this, I have to wander Tamriel to find those mats. Other players may have already harvested nodes or killed monsters that drop hides -- a factor beyond my control. Assuming I find the node I have no control as to the amount or kind -- for alchemy you get "fungus" nodes or "water plant" nodes not "Imp Stool" or "Nirnroot" nodes. Enchanting nodes are even worse, it's going to be a stone but it could be any flavor and sometime multiple levels. I hate getting VR7 stones in VR14 zones in Cyrodiil. But even on wood nodes I can get from 3 to 16 so it means I have no idea how many nodes I'll have to visit. Which means I have to visit potentially a hundred or more potential nodes to get the 250 or so Rough Nightwood I need to make a stack. Oh, yeah, more random goodness. Process 100 raw mats and you could get anywhere from 70 to 100 finished ones. This isn't really that different from looking in 100 containers to find a random motif.
It may take you more time for certain things, but you still know what you are getting when you pick it up with a lot of those things. Runes are pretty much RNG. Alchemy the same, at least if you are looking for just Columbine.
Wait, OK, so it is an unknown amount of time to get the mats you want. And an unknown time to get the RNG loot you want. So are you saying they are the same because they are both represented at the most simplistic, highest level by a time amount you cannot predict?
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ontheleftcoast✭✭✭✭✭CromulentForumID wrote: »ontheleftcoast wrote: »What you see as "luck" I see as "time". While I have issues with the RNG in this game.I never bought a trait or motif for first few too a. It seemed to take FOREVER to fill those in. Then I realized was being short-sighted and not valuing my time spent.
[snip]
First let me clarify (or perhaps apologize) I said "lazy" but what I really should point out is you're making what I consider to be a very poor choice on valuing your time relative to others. You complain about finding motifs and traits on weapons/armor as if it is somehow different than finding materials. It really isn't, not in the larger picture.
I am not really complaining, I am just stating that it is different. It is a lot different. You can pick up wood to get wood. You can pick up ore to get ore. You can grab clothing materials for clothing. You can kill animals for hides. You can open containers and get...a whole boatload of things. You are never mining some ore and getting a set of boots or a bunch of garlic. You can't go to a jewelry node. There isn't a way to be smarter or better at getting RNG loot. You can open more containers per hour, but nothing you do determines if you get what you want or even good things.
Where is my poor choice? I am trying to see how I am valuing my time poorly. I should play in a certain way to to get more expensive things to sell?
I spend my time questing and exploring, and I pick things up along the way. I personally am not targeting anything specific. I have some things I would like to have, but nothing I need or need to buy. I just hate it when players somehow think that they have some magic way to approach the game, and that players who do not get random loot somehow need to L2P. Or that they must be lazy if they don't get it themselves. In this case I guess you are saying...L2P(rice)?ontheleftcoast wrote: »Consider this, I have to wander Tamriel to find those mats. Other players may have already harvested nodes or killed monsters that drop hides -- a factor beyond my control. Assuming I find the node I have no control as to the amount or kind -- for alchemy you get "fungus" nodes or "water plant" nodes not "Imp Stool" or "Nirnroot" nodes. Enchanting nodes are even worse, it's going to be a stone but it could be any flavor and sometime multiple levels. I hate getting VR7 stones in VR14 zones in Cyrodiil. But even on wood nodes I can get from 3 to 16 so it means I have no idea how many nodes I'll have to visit. Which means I have to visit potentially a hundred or more potential nodes to get the 250 or so Rough Nightwood I need to make a stack. Oh, yeah, more random goodness. Process 100 raw mats and you could get anywhere from 70 to 100 finished ones. This isn't really that different from looking in 100 containers to find a random motif.
It may take you more time for certain things, but you still know what you are getting when you pick it up with a lot of those things. Runes are pretty much RNG. Alchemy the same, at least if you are looking for just Columbine.
Wait, OK, so it is an unknown amount of time to get the mats you want. And an unknown time to get the RNG loot you want. So are you saying they are the same because they are both represented at the most simplistic, highest level by a time amount you cannot predict?
Bingo. To quote Einstein -- Time is Money. No, wait, that was someone else. But that's the underlying problem.
A blue motif is 250-300 gold anywhere in Tamriel on PC/Mac. It's similar for every trait besides nirnhoned. If you find 300gp of stuff to sell while you're running around questing/exploring/delving you have effectively found a blue motif or a trait to train. It just doesn't look like on the surface. But that's simply a matter of perception. Yeah, some folks hit the jackpot and find 10 glass motif fragments and roll the Chest recipe and I've gotten gloves twice and belts once. But that's enough to trade for those chests if I really want it. The beauty of the trading system in ZOS is everything you find becomes just another fungible commodity. It's only your choice to see it as something else that make you think you've "lost" while others are "winning".
And if you're regularly trying to buy a commodity like rice you should invest some time in to finding a guild that trades in recipe mats. They'll often have people with vast stacks willing to sell them at reasonable prices. Maybe even trade you straight up for stuff you have. My 6 provisioning toons get so much every day from their hirelings I end up giving away most of it. I've got stacks and stacks Frost Mirriam and Bervez Juice. I bet I could get a stack of rice for 10 or 20 Frost Mirriam any day in any zone.
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CromulentForumID✭✭✭✭ontheleftcoast wrote: »Bingo. To quote Einstein -- Time is Money. No, wait, that was someone else. But that's the underlying problem.
A blue motif is 250-300 gold anywhere in Tamriel on PC/Mac. It's similar for every trait besides nirnhoned. If you find 300gp of stuff to sell while you're running around questing/exploring/delving you have effectively found a blue motif or a trait to train. It just doesn't look like on the surface. But that's simply a matter of perception. Yeah, some folks hit the jackpot and find 10 glass motif fragments and roll the Chest recipe and I've gotten gloves twice and belts once. But that's enough to trade for those chests if I really want it. The beauty of the trading system in ZOS is everything you find becomes just another fungible commodity. It's only your choice to see it as something else that make you think you've "lost" while others are "winning".
OK, I get you. We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. It is true it is all gold at the end, but the limiting factor is whether or not you can find what you want with the gold you just obtained. That was kind of the initial point - finding things you want at what you think is a reasonable price isn't always a "given." More time looking doesn't always mean success, at least from what I have tried so far.
I should add I am a filthy console peasant. I don't have add-ons and the market is not the same as on PC. With the additional tools available on PC this would probably be a different discussion.
But I see where you are coming from now, and where we were diverging, so thanks for explaining.
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