Better Incentives for ESO+

tordr86b16_ESO · September 2015

So there is this MMORPG called Star Wars: The Old Republic, which totally dropped this bomb on everyone.

http://www.swtor.com/blog/epic-story-xp-boost

x12 more exp for story missions ranging from level 1 to 55, including a slew of other benefits. I'd like to see something similar or buff the values we have now for subbing. It can't hurt to get more people subscribing.

Alucardo · September 2015

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

It can't hurt to get more people subscribing.

It also can't hurt to keep the ones they still have subbed. They will need to be careful because this community can be awfully touchy regarding what us subbers get. I feel sorry for ZOS sometimes.

PinoZino · September 2015

Yes it can hurt.

If too many people have significant advantages then the non-subscribers would rather leave the game than subscribe.

The exodus would make sure that even more people would follow: friends of the departed ones and people who can't stand the emptiness anymore.

Of course ZOS would win some new subscribers too (who would strengthen the above situation), but in the end they would lose members. Members who buy Crowns, DLC's and other goodies.

TheValkyn · September 2015

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

So there is this MMORPG called Star Wars: The Old Republic, which totally dropped this bomb on everyone.

http://www.swtor.com/blog/epic-story-xp-boost

x12 more exp for story missions ranging from level 1 to 55, including a slew of other benefits. I'd like to see something similar or buff the values we have now for subbing. It can't hurt to get more people subscribing.

In October, SWTOR will also being giving every expansion and episode/chapter of DLC included with at least one month of subscription time. You pay for your sub once and you own everything released up until that point.

UrQuan · September 2015

I'd like to see more/different/better benefits for subscribers (honestly the main reason I sub is because I know I'll use the crowns from the sub, and I like the 10% reduction in research time and the ability to go play in IC without buying it outright - the other benefits are pretty meaningless to me), but I don't think something as drastic as a x12 multiplier to XP (even if it's only quest XP) is a good idea. I mean, I already significantly over-level all the content, so it definitely wouldn't be a draw for me.

Having said that, on checking out the link you provided it looks like they did a bunch of other quality of life improvements for subs over at SW:TOR. They don't appear to be ones that could be easily translated to ESO, but I like the creative approach that they seem to be taking over there, and I hope that a similar creative approach is taken with regards to the ESO+ subscription. I know the idea of crafting bags for subscribers has been mentioned by ZOS, so that's one possible creative benefit.

TheValkyn · September 2015

PinoZino wrote: »

Yes it can hurt.

If too many people have significant advantages then the non-subscribers would rather leave the game than subscribe.

The exodus would make sure that even more people would follow: friends of the departed ones and people who can't stand the emptiness anymore.

Of course ZOS would win some new subscribers too (who would strengthen the above situation), but in the end they would lose members. Members who buy Crowns, DLC's and other goodies.

@PinoZino

If they limited the xp bonus from lv1->49 then you wouldn't see this mass exodus you're talking about. There wouldn't be any significant advantage given.

It should also be noted that SWTOR offers a consumable (Free of course) to turn off the massive leveling xp bonus. The xp bonus also stops at lv55 and the max level in SWTOR is lv60.

TheValkyn · September 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

I'd like to see more/different/better benefits for subscribers (honestly the main reason I sub is because I know I'll use the crowns from the sub, and I like the 10% reduction in research time and the ability to go play in IC without buying it outright - the other benefits are pretty meaningless to me), but I don't think something as drastic as a x12 multiplier to XP (even if it's only quest XP) is a good idea. I mean, I already significantly over-level all the content, so it definitely wouldn't be a draw for me.

Having said that, on checking out the link you provided it looks like they did a bunch of other quality of life improvements for subs over at SW:TOR. They don't appear to be ones that could be easily translated to ESO, but I like the creative approach that they seem to be taking over there, and I hope that a similar creative approach is taken with regards to the ESO+ subscription. I know the idea of crafting bags for subscribers has been mentioned by ZOS, so that's one possible creative benefit.

The idea of the SWTOR 12xp event is for the players to do the main storylines and instantly level up if they choose to do so. You can turn off the xp boost if you don't wish to have it. If ZOS were to implement something like this then it should be implemented to where you only need to do the main questline in each zone and the main story quests to reach lv50. Also, the bonus should stop right before one would hit veteran rank as the Champion System ranking off of xp accrual was a very poor design.

After doing all the quests in ESO once or more I would prefer to not have to do them again especially since ESO doesn't have different quest lines for different classes like SWTOR does.

PinoZino · September 2015

TheValkyn wrote: »

@PinoZino

If they limited the xp bonus from lv1->49 then you wouldn't see this mass exodus you're talking about. There wouldn't be any significant advantage given.

Maybe. Maybe not. We don't know. If you have the right data, you can calculate it.

I can tell you that you have to be very careful with giving too much skill and exp bonuses to subscribers. It killed more than one MMO.

TheValkyn · September 2015

PinoZino wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

@PinoZino

If they limited the xp bonus from lv1->49 then you wouldn't see this mass exodus you're talking about. There wouldn't be any significant advantage given.

Maybe. Maybe not. We don't know. If you have the right data, you can calculate it.

I can tell you that you have to be very careful with giving too much skill and exp bonuses to subscribers. It killed more than one MMO.

I have no idea what you're talking about. It wouldn't affect end game and it certainly wouldn't affect the Champion System. What exactly is bad about people leveling up faster 1-49?

Alucardo · September 2015

PinoZino wrote: »

Yes it can hurt.

If too many people have significant advantages then the non-subscribers would rather leave the game than subscribe.

The exodus would make sure that even more people would follow: friends of the departed ones and people who can't stand the emptiness anymore.

Of course ZOS would win some new subscribers too (who would strengthen the above situation), but in the end they would lose members. Members who buy Crowns, DLC's and other goodies.

So people who constantly pay each month to help keep the servers running don't deserve anything? Sure we receive a few crowns but there's nothing useful to buy in the store - most likely because people complain about everything that could potentially go in there. So what? Keep subscriptions looking pitiful so we don't get as many new subscribers as we could?
Keep in mind the OP was looking for incentives - it's an open discussion, so you can give some ideas on things that won't give "significant advantages" instead of a big fat useless no, or just not comment which would be preferred.

UrQuan · September 2015

TheValkyn wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I'd like to see more/different/better benefits for subscribers (honestly the main reason I sub is because I know I'll use the crowns from the sub, and I like the 10% reduction in research time and the ability to go play in IC without buying it outright - the other benefits are pretty meaningless to me), but I don't think something as drastic as a x12 multiplier to XP (even if it's only quest XP) is a good idea. I mean, I already significantly over-level all the content, so it definitely wouldn't be a draw for me.

Having said that, on checking out the link you provided it looks like they did a bunch of other quality of life improvements for subs over at SW:TOR. They don't appear to be ones that could be easily translated to ESO, but I like the creative approach that they seem to be taking over there, and I hope that a similar creative approach is taken with regards to the ESO+ subscription. I know the idea of crafting bags for subscribers has been mentioned by ZOS, so that's one possible creative benefit.

The idea of the SWTOR 12xp event is for the players to do the main storylines and instantly level up if they choose to do so. You can turn off the xp boost if you don't wish to have it. If ZOS were to implement something like this then it should be implemented to where you only need to do the main questline in each zone and the main story quests to reach lv50. Also, the bonus should stop right before one would hit veteran rank as the Champion System ranking off of xp accrual was a very poor design.

After doing all the quests in ESO once or more I would prefer to not have to do them again especially since ESO doesn't have different quest lines for different classes like SWTOR does.

If you could turn it off, and if it was only on the main alliance quests for your home alliance (thus effectively making it only useful for leveling to VR1, and making it fairly useless for trying to grind champion points), then I would say it would be fine for them to do something like that in ESO. The part about being able to turn it off is important for me, though.

UrQuan · September 2015

PinoZino wrote: »

I can tell you that you have to be very careful with giving too much skill and exp bonuses to subscribers. It killed more than one MMO.

Got examples? I'm not well versed in the various MMOs (ESO is the only one I've ever played), but I'm curious to know which ones screwed this up and what sorts of things they did wrong.

TheValkyn · September 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

I'd like to see more/different/better benefits for subscribers (honestly the main reason I sub is because I know I'll use the crowns from the sub, and I like the 10% reduction in research time and the ability to go play in IC without buying it outright - the other benefits are pretty meaningless to me), but I don't think something as drastic as a x12 multiplier to XP (even if it's only quest XP) is a good idea. I mean, I already significantly over-level all the content, so it definitely wouldn't be a draw for me.

Having said that, on checking out the link you provided it looks like they did a bunch of other quality of life improvements for subs over at SW:TOR. They don't appear to be ones that could be easily translated to ESO, but I like the creative approach that they seem to be taking over there, and I hope that a similar creative approach is taken with regards to the ESO+ subscription. I know the idea of crafting bags for subscribers has been mentioned by ZOS, so that's one possible creative benefit.

The idea of the SWTOR 12xp event is for the players to do the main storylines and instantly level up if they choose to do so. You can turn off the xp boost if you don't wish to have it. If ZOS were to implement something like this then it should be implemented to where you only need to do the main questline in each zone and the main story quests to reach lv50. Also, the bonus should stop right before one would hit veteran rank as the Champion System ranking off of xp accrual was a very poor design.

After doing all the quests in ESO once or more I would prefer to not have to do them again especially since ESO doesn't have different quest lines for different classes like SWTOR does.

If you could turn it off, and if it was only on the main alliance quests for your home alliance (thus effectively making it only useful for leveling to VR1, and making it fairly useless for trying to grind champion points), then I would say it would be fine for them to do something like that in ESO. The part about being able to turn it off is important for me, though.

There should be a consumable that debuffs or rather removes the buff for story xp. In SWTOR, there's a vendor that sells a consumable to remove the xp bonus and allow players to enjoy everything without fear of being too overleveled due to the xp bonus.

As I said earlier, SWTOR introduced this concept for MMO players wanting to get to max level for operations and flashpoints fast while also appeasing the folks that already played through the side-filler quests and wanted to experience the completely different class stories.

Lastly, come to think of it, I've never seen anyone complain about the 12x XP bonus in SWTOR. Since there's a method to turn it off and it doesn't affect end game play at all there's really no reason for people to complain.

PinoZino · September 2015

Alucardo wrote: »

So people who constantly pay each month to help keep the servers running don't deserve anything? Sure we receive a few crowns but there's nothing useful to buy in the store - most likely because people complain about everything that could potentially go in there. So what? Keep subscriptions looking pitiful so we don't get as many new subscribers as we could?
Keep in mind the OP was looking for incentives - it's an open discussion, so you can give some ideas on things that won't give "significant advantages" instead of a big fat useless no, or just not comment which would be preferred.

The other players paid also money to keep the servers running. And they will pay in the future too. They do buy Crowns.

And you can enter the DLC's for free and the others can't.

If you're not happy with your package, you can always unsubscribe.

Leave the decision at the people who have the data to calculate what's best. And that's not you.

Chieve · September 2015

Buy to win

PinoZino · September 2015

TheValkyn wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

@PinoZino

If they limited the xp bonus from lv1->49 then you wouldn't see this mass exodus you're talking about. There wouldn't be any significant advantage given.

Maybe. Maybe not. We don't know. If you have the right data, you can calculate it.

I can tell you that you have to be very careful with giving too much skill and exp bonuses to subscribers. It killed more than one MMO.

I have no idea what you're talking about. It wouldn't affect end game and it certainly wouldn't affect the Champion System. What exactly is bad about people leveling up faster 1-49?

I already explained what can happen when you give too much advantages to your subscribers. No need to repeat that one.

TheValkyn · September 2015

PinoZino wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

So people who constantly pay each month to help keep the servers running don't deserve anything? Sure we receive a few crowns but there's nothing useful to buy in the store - most likely because people complain about everything that could potentially go in there. So what? Keep subscriptions looking pitiful so we don't get as many new subscribers as we could?
Keep in mind the OP was looking for incentives - it's an open discussion, so you can give some ideas on things that won't give "significant advantages" instead of a big fat useless no, or just not comment which would be preferred.

The other players paid also money to keep the servers running. And they will pay in the future too. They do buy Crowns.

And you can enter the DLC's for free and the others can't.

If you're not happy with your package, you can always unsubscribe.

Leave the decision at the people who have the data to calculate what's best. And that's not you.

I know it probably wasn't your intention but you actually supported his argument. Might have been a "Freudian Slip". "If you're not happy with your package, you can always unsubscribe." The goal is to make people subscribe and retain subscribers. The subscriber benefits in ESO aren't that great when compared to buying bulk crowns. Buying crowns in bulk is actually the superior method when compared to subscribing if you like to spend crowns regularly.

TheValkyn · September 2015

Chieve wrote: »

Buy to win

How? The 12x XP bonus doesn't apply past level 55 and the max level is 60. In reality, ESO is probably more buy to win than SWTOR. XP translates directly to power in ESO after max level via the Champion System and they sell xp boosters in the store. SWTOR stops the xp bonus just before you reach max level. Also, if we are talking about large man content or ranked pvp in SWTOR you need to be a subscriber to participate in both of those.

Your argument falls short in more ways than one. You need to know the game you're comparing to before you compare it otherwise you might make some mistakes.

Chieve · September 2015

Can I turn experience Bonus off?

What if me and my friend wanted to level a character together and I'm eso + and he isn't

Kammakazi · September 2015

ESO+ is trash anyways.

10% bonus XP, 10% more gold found in chests? (u serious), 10% more inspiration, 10% reduced research time.

That's it?

Fifteen dollars per month for that much?

If the XP bonus was 50% then I'd subscribe but otherwise, it's still trash.

dokupe · September 2015

As an ESO plus subscriber, I'd actually really like that feature for 1-49 (and the ability to turn it off) because then leveling alts wouldn't be as annoying/grindy to me. I'm a completionist so I intend to use my main character to do that, meaning I don't particularly want to have to play through it all again on an alt just to get to max level. I would actively make and level alts if the exp gain was significantly easier, or allowed for characters to hit 50 by doing the the main quest line in the faction, main story, and guild quest lines.

That way, there would be no advantage or disparity between players. It would simply allow for people to catch up and level easier. That's not to say I don't value the actual leveling and think people really should play the game instead of trying to rush to endgame. But I don't really replay RPGs, and for me that's what leveling an alt is equivalent to doing.

PinoZino · September 2015

TheValkyn wrote: »

I know it probably wasn't your intention but you actually supported his argument. Might have been a "Freudian Slip". "If you're not happy with your package, you can always unsubscribe." The goal is to make people subscribe and retain subscribers. The subscriber benefits in ESO aren't that great when compared to buying bulk crowns. Buying crowns in bulk is actually the superior method when compared to subscribing if you like to spend crowns regularly.

And that's based on what? YOUR personal opinion, sir.

Maybe the countless other subscribers are very happy with what they get.

If people are not satisfied, they leave the subscription.

ZOS would, like any other company, react rather fast.

And they have more weapons than just giving you extra goodies. They can lower their prices too or give you more Crowns. And other solutions are possible too.

TheValkyn · September 2015

Chieve wrote: »

Can I turn experience Bonus off?

What if me and my friend wanted to level a character together and I'm eso + and he isn't

Of course. In SWTOR, you can turn it off.

TheValkyn · September 2015

PinoZino wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

I know it probably wasn't your intention but you actually supported his argument. Might have been a "Freudian Slip". "If you're not happy with your package, you can always unsubscribe." The goal is to make people subscribe and retain subscribers. The subscriber benefits in ESO aren't that great when compared to buying bulk crowns. Buying crowns in bulk is actually the superior method when compared to subscribing if you like to spend crowns regularly.

And that's based on what? YOUR personal opinion, sir.

Maybe the countless other subscribers are very happy with what they get.

If people are not satisfied, they leave the subscription.

ZOS would, like any other company, react rather fast.

And they have more weapons than just giving you extra goodies. They can lower their prices too or give you more Crowns. And other solutions are possible too.

I'd like say that my opinion is aligned with the community but I certainly wouldn't want to speak for them. That's not my place however I would wager that more than a few folks, given the comparison between buying crowns in bulk vs subscribing, would fall in line that the ESO+ subscriber benefits are not as powerful as they should be. I am currently subscribed but that is due to my current purchasing strategy. I'm making a few more crafters to lighten the load on one of my characters. After that I will unsubscribe until the benefits are increased. I will end up saving $40 a year by not subscribing yet I will have pretty much all the same benefits, crowns and DLC.

PinoZino · September 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

I can tell you that you have to be very careful with giving too much skill and exp bonuses to subscribers. It killed more than one MMO.

Got examples? I'm not well versed in the various MMOs (ESO is the only one I've ever played), but I'm curious to know which ones screwed this up and what sorts of things they did wrong.

Grepolis. It's still online, but the player turnover is enormous.

Most people leave not because it's a bad game (it’s pretty addicting), but because the advantages for the subscribers are too nice.

People are not really aware about that difference when they start the game, but detect it later and leave.

jorgeh401b14_ESO · September 2015

eso plus is just a buy 1500 crowns a month plan and nothing more.

UrQuan · September 2015

Kammakazi wrote: »

ESO+ is trash anyways.

10% bonus XP, 10% more gold found in chests? (u serious), 10% more inspiration, 10% reduced research time.

That's it?

Fifteen dollars per month for that much?

If the XP bonus was 50% then I'd subscribe but otherwise, it's still trash.

You missed the 2 benefits that are the bulk of the value of the sub: the crowns, and the ability to play any DLC without buying it. If you weren't going to be spending an average of 1500 or more crowns per month, then an ESO+ sub definitely isn't worth it. If you were going to be spending that much, then a sub is probably worth it because you get to try out DLC without having to spend 2500 crowns to buy it, and you get 10% reduced research time (that's a big one - much more valuable than the other 10% bonuses).

If you would only be buying crowns to buy DLC, then it's better to buy a 1 month sub, use that 1 month to try out the DLC and decide if you really want to buy it, and if you do then you put the 1500 crowns from the sub towards the purchase. If you try it out and decide you don't like the DLC enough to buy it, then you hang on to the 1500 crowns until the next DLC is released, and do the same thing again. Much smarter than just buying the DLC outright without trying it out first.

UrQuan · September 2015

PinoZino wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

PinoZino wrote: »

I can tell you that you have to be very careful with giving too much skill and exp bonuses to subscribers. It killed more than one MMO.

Got examples? I'm not well versed in the various MMOs (ESO is the only one I've ever played), but I'm curious to know which ones screwed this up and what sorts of things they did wrong.

Grepolis. It's still online, but the player turnover is enormous.

Most people leave not because it's a bad game (it’s pretty addicting), but because the advantages for the subscribers are too nice.

People are not really aware about that difference when they start the game, but detect it later and leave.

Such as? What kind of advantages do subscribers have that are too much?

Alucardo · September 2015

Kammakazi wrote: »

ESO+ is trash anyways.

10% bonus XP, 10% more gold found in chests? (u serious), 10% more inspiration, 10% reduced research time.

That's it?

Fifteen dollars per month for that much?

If the XP bonus was 50% then I'd subscribe but otherwise, it's still trash.

Yup. I use it primarily for the inspiration and research time. Once my crafter is fully maxed I will most likely unsubscribe if we're not offered anything worthwhile. There's only so much you can purchase from the crown store with the free crowns, so like, what's the point?

PinoZino · September 2015

TheValkyn wrote: »

Such as? What kind of advantages do subscribers have that are too much?

Several ones. 20% extra fighting power, your boats are two times faster, farming can be 30% faster and much more.

There was recent a scientific research published about the impact of subscribers in MMO's too. The conclusion was more or less what I wrote before: if the advantages are too big, the non-subscribers start to dislike the game.

Check also:

Buying In-Game Advantages in Online Games Decreases a Player's Status

Mighty_oakk · September 2015

tordr86b16_ESO wrote: »

So there is this MMORPG called Star Wars: The Old Republic, which totally dropped this bomb on everyone.

http://www.swtor.com/blog/epic-story-xp-boost

x12 more exp for story missions ranging from level 1 to 55, including a slew of other benefits. I'd like to see something similar or buff the values we have now for subbing. It can't hurt to get more people subscribing.

In my experience these things are usually added when a game is nearing the end. Extreme catch up mechanics or out right buying a max level character are usually a bad sign.

I think eso has a long way togo before something like this