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"Impenetrable" armor-trait after patch 2.1

mindrage
mindrage
Soul Shriven
Hey guys,

How exactly does the "impenetrable" armor-trait work now?

i was desperately trying to find information about this, and all i got were contradicting claims, most of which dated back to the changes to this trait in 1.6.
Someone claimed that a full set in v16 would equal a 25% damage-reduction from critical hits, which would make this trait actually really interesting, for PVP at least.
Is there any truth to this?

Thanks!
  • Asayre
    Asayre
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    Hey there! I did some testing in the recent PTS and these are my results. Some of it is extraneous but I wrote it previously but wasn't sure if it would be of interest to anyone. The answer to your question is like in the first few sentences. Hope it helps =)

    Recently, a guild mate asked me whether he should put Reinforced or Impenetrable on his gear for PvP. To begin an understanding of how Impenetrable works is needed. A gold impenetrable piece claims to ‘Increase resistance to Critical hits by 250’. This does not seem very informative. My testing suggests that a gold impenetrable piece reduces the critical damage multiplier by approximately 3.5%. Thus without any pieces of impenetrable the base critical damage multiplier is 1.5 but with 2 pieces of impenetrable this is reduced to 1.43. As an aside this stacks additively with Resilient. With this information the analysis can continue.
    Let the base damage without taking into account critical damage be, D. From my previous testing
    D = Tooltip * Battle Spirit * Attacker CP * Defender CP*(1-Mitigation)
    Attacker CP here includes Thaumathurge or Elemental Expert and Defender CP refers to Elemental Defender. The first four terms can be combined together into a single parameter, T, for this analysis. Mitigation is given by the following formula
    Mitigation = (Base Armour + Reinforced Armour)*Penetration/66000 – Focus/66000
    Mitigation = Base Armour*Penetration/66000 – Focus/66000 + Reinforced Armour*Penetration/66000 Mitigation = Base Mitigation + Reinforced mitigation
    where I am assuming that both the attacker and target are V16. I’ve explicitly neglected additional penetration from Spell Erosion and Piercing.
    Then
    D = T * (1-Base Mitigation + Reinforced Mitigation)
    Now let us consider the damage done while taking in account critical damage, D1.
    Reinforced
    D_reinforced = (1-C)*D + C*M*D
    where C is the Critical Chance and M is the critical damage multiplier
    D_reinforced = D (1 – C + C*M )
    D_reinforced = T ( 1 – Base_mitigation – Reinforced_mitigation ) ( 1 – C + C*M )
    Impenetrable
    D_impenetrable = ( 1 – C ) * D + C * ( M – I ) * D
    where I is the reduction of the critical damage multiplier.
    D_ impenetrable = D ( 1 – C + C * ( M – I ) )
    D_ impenetrable = T ( 1 – Base_mitigation) ( 1 – C + C*M – C*I )

    Reinforced – Impenetrable

    If (Reinforced – Impenetrable) is positive this means that Impenetrable is favoured. The converse is true.

    Reinforced – Impenetrable = T ( C*I*( 1 – Base_mitigation ) – Reinforced_mitigation ( 1 – C + C*M))

    From this, the following observations can be made
    • Impenetrable is more effective at lower base mitigation (i.e. light armour wearers benefit more)
    • A higher critical damage multiplier results in benefits only for reinforced

    I’ll calculate (Reinforced – Impenetrable) for a range of Reinforced Armour and Critical Chance. To put into perspective the range of Reinforced Armour. The reinforced traits gives 16% increased armour for a legendary item. The lowest armour piece at V14 is a light armour sash with a base armour of 511. Thus for this particular item, reinforcing it would increase Reinforced Armour by about 82.
    Using a critical damage multiplier of 1.5 and an extra reinforced mitigation of 100/66000 the following is calculated

    odyiv.png

    This shows that impenetrable is always preferred when comparing between 250 increased critical damage resistance and 100 bonus armour from reinforced
    Edited by Asayre on September 23, 2015 2:28AM
    Reference for any calculation I make Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation
  • Waffennacht
    Waffennacht
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    So you told your guild mate to put on impenetrable correct?
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  • Sord
    Sord
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    Asayre wrote: »
    This shows that impenetrable is always preferred when comparing between 250 increased critical damage resistance and 100 bonus armour from reinforced

    yah so impenetrable right, in particular with light armor? Thanks for that amazing information... B)
    Edited by Sord on September 23, 2015 3:33AM
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  • mindrage
    mindrage
    Soul Shriven
    Thank you so much Asayre for sharing these findings!
    Awesome work figuring that out...

    Impenetrable it is for me...
  • Wreuntzylla
    Wreuntzylla
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    I have about 20k health in Cyrodiil on one toon and a friend has about 33k. My friend has no impenetrable, I have at least 5 pieces at purple quality (cant recall the dropped armor traits). We pulled a district roaming boss and the friend about chain died by popping like a baloon, while I could eat it and heal up.

    A stamblade popped on me at one point and did not do enough damage to pressure me into defense.

    So anecdotally, impen is pretty decent now.
  • OmniDevil
    OmniDevil
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    Would it be safe to say that it's also viable to us in PvE or are we still wanting to go with the traditional Infused/Divines traits? I have no idea if PvE mobs/bosses have similar crit chance/damage multipliers that players do, but, assuming they do, I can imagine this being helpful in certain situations.
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  • danno8
    danno8
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    I have about 20k health in Cyrodiil on one toon and a friend has about 33k. My friend has no impenetrable, I have at least 5 pieces at purple quality (cant recall the dropped armor traits). We pulled a district roaming boss and the friend about chain died by popping like a baloon, while I could eat it and heal up.

    A stamblade popped on me at one point and did not do enough damage to pressure me into defense.

    So anecdotally, impen is pretty decent now.

    Except mobs in this game do not crit. So your first example is just the placebo effect.
  • Kupoking
    Kupoking
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    I dunno but I traded 2 pc impen heavy for 2 pc reinforced med on chest and legs. I have more armor and spell resist than before but for some reason I am much less tanky. Might be an impression though
    Edited by Kupoking on September 23, 2015 8:50PM
  • Crown
    Crown
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    Here's another perspective / set of data: goo.gl/84hnar
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  • whsprwind
    whsprwind
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    I've heard impen and resilient also reduces crit heals you receive, can anyone confirm?
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  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
    Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    whsprwind wrote: »
    I've heard impen and resilient also reduces crit heals you receive, can anyone confirm?

    I have tested this with my own armor and breath of life, it does not do that any more. inpen is a great trait for PVP
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on December 24, 2015 12:26AM
  • Makkir
    Makkir
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    @mindrage what class are you playing? I hope you're not a sorc...
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