"LOL, Cena Wins (even in ESO)"

OGLezard wrote: »

sooooooooooooooo........ what item did you buy lol

I would like to say, but decided to lower the chances of the set in question being nerfd by not giving out the information.

It is pretty clear that roles are being shoe horned into using the new sets and I really don't want tanking to be more limited.

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

sooooooooooooooo........ what item did you buy lol

I would like to say, but decided to lower the chances of the set in question being nerfd by not giving out the information.

It is pretty clear that roles are being shoe horned into using the new sets and I really don't want tanking to be more limited.

You know, I'd normally say stop being a drama queen and tell us already, however, around here you say you like something and ZoS do come out with the nerf hammer. They'd mash that piece of equipment into the ground 1000 times over with their fluffy little nerf hammer just to make sure every last iota of usefulness was drained from it. I'm sure ZoS have 3 guys working on the entire game and about 100 times more working in their nerf department.

I'm going the other way this a troll post designed to sell goods and very well done at that.

Create an environment where people feel like they have to have something l, make them work to figure it out, and then supply them here or there at a nice profit margin. Very well played sir, well played.

acw37162 wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

OGLezard wrote: »

sooooooooooooooo........ what item did you buy lol

I would like to say, but decided to lower the chances of the set in question being nerfd by not giving out the information.

It is pretty clear that roles are being shoe horned into using the new sets and I really don't want tanking to be more limited.

You know, I'd normally say stop being a drama queen and tell us already, however, around here you say you like something and ZoS do come out with the nerf hammer. They'd mash that piece of equipment into the ground 1000 times over with their fluffy little nerf hammer just to make sure every last iota of usefulness was drained from it. I'm sure ZoS have 3 guys working on the entire game and about 100 times more working in their nerf department.

I'm going the other way this a troll post designed to sell goods and very well done at that.

Create an environment where people feel like they have to have something l, make them work to figure it out, and then supply them here or there at a nice profit margin. Very well played sir, well played.

Please do not derail the thread with name calling.

I'll have you know that there are serious reasons to believe that the set in question would be nerfd. These items are worth hundreds of thousands of gold, without telling the full story, because they were nerfd. If people figure it out, good for them, but the items will still be ridiculously hard to find.

Even better with the item you are talking about I have seen Templar tanks back on the field with full *-*-*!
People need to try a few things before they start saying "OMG! Tanks are DOOMED. DOOMED!.. "

If those people would get out of the "I only need stam to tank" mentality then there would be a lot less crying round here.

They go for that much? Huh. Maybe I should sell mine.

PBpsy wrote: »

What in the ^**** did I just read?

Anyway I agree... Completely.

Basically it is a prenerf- to a prewarning- of nerf of said items....Getting nerfed....


There......... did that clear everything up?

And when @Personofsecrets finally bought it, he was like...

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Greetings everyone, this ya young boy LT comin at ya with a fresh new story about the Elder Scrolling ONLINE Tamriel Unlimited™

This is a story all about how
My life as a tank got flip-turned upside down
And I like you to just stay a while and listen
Find out why a v12 item was my mission

In Imperial City tanking gear be hardly phased
With Histbark is how I'll spend most of my days
Theory Crafting, min-maxing, things tough to discern
But I gotta get away from diminished returns

Imperium? Leeching Plate? No, I'm not a fan
Either way I'ma keep dumpin on Endurance and Footman
The raid leader doesn't want any v12 foolery
But I tell em it's the best in slot tanking jewelry

The struggle is to keep set bonuses of 5-5-2
Whoever usin 5-2-2-3 doesn't know the rules
If anything, tanks don't need more armor or spell resisting
What I got now gives 9001 healing done stone fistings

I pulled up to EP and DC with no luck
Finally AD had what I needed for 300,000 bucks
I looked at my build and I was finally there
To sit on my throne as.... JOHN CENA

All I can say is... dang. Yall at ZOS, yall other tanks, yall feelin the burn now.

The rock says

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Even better with the item you are talking about I have seen Templar tanks back on the field with full *-*-*!
People need to try a few things before they start saying "OMG! Tanks are DOOMED. DOOMED!.. "

If those people would get out of the "I only need stam to tank" mentality then there would be a lot less crying round here.

I just want to make sure that your not implying that I am implying that tanks are doomed.

Ohhh no SIR! you are one of the few that actually thought that going full stam might not be a great idea after. IC.

Tam foundry has afew builds built around these changes. As far as I have seen personally Tanks are in a decent spot right now.. Can they play the same way they have last month? NOPE!

I remember you posting a thread on this set a few months ago. More of a niche build I would say, especially since apparently the VR12 sets don't drop anymore, not really practical for tanks who don't have access to legacy items. Must say I am also disappointed in the lack of alternatives in the new IC gear for Tanks, I wanted to try some new sets and found them all useless compared to my old crafted gear and footmans set.

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Funkopotamus wrote: »

Even better with the item you are talking about I have seen Templar tanks back on the field with full *-*-*!
People need to try a few things before they start saying "OMG! Tanks are DOOMED. DOOMED!.. "

If those people would get out of the "I only need stam to tank" mentality then there would be a lot less crying round here.

I just want to make sure that your not implying that I am implying that tanks are doomed.

Ohhh no SIR! you are one of the few that actually thought that going full stam might not be a great idea after. IC.

Tam foundry has afew builds built around these changes. As far as I have seen personally Tanks are in a decent spot right now.. Can they play the same way they have last month? NOPE!

The stam mentality is probably part collateral damage from the regen nerf.

Having thought about this set I don't really believe it would be worth sacrificing footmans to use unassailable.

Some rough figures (not necessarily accurate):

Hypothetical damage (initial hit): 100k physical, close quarters
Blocked with footmans (based on 65% base block with passives + 12% footmans bonus = 77% damage blocked)
=23k damage
Assuming armour hard cap 50% mitigation= total damage taken = 11.5k
Without footmans = 17.5k damage taken

Footmans would be reducing damage by 6k total from 100k hit

So would the extra 8% healing received really make up for that kind of damage reduction, without even factoring in the fact you lose out on a little bit of extra armor/enchant values using 12k gear, and assuming you can still manage hard cap armor by other means?

For instance self heal from stone fist, assuming about a 8.5k base heal would give you a puny 680 healing and costs magicka?

Some of the above assumptions and calculations may be off but by my rough estimation I would say Footmans is still best in slot for Tanks (as much as I hate to say it - I really want to get rid of that set for something different, just anything else would make me a worse tank)

Endurance jewellery I would not even consider a tanking set since stam regen doesn't work while blocking.

reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Having thought about this set I don't really believe it would be worth sacrificing footmans to use unassailable.

Some rough figures (not necessarily accurate):

Hypothetical damage (initial hit): 100k physical, close quarters
Blocked with footmans (based on 65% base block with passives + 12% footmans bonus = 77% damage blocked)
=23k damage
Assuming armour hard cap 50% mitigation= total damage taken = 11.5k
Without footmans = 17.5k damage taken

Footmans would be reducing damage by 6k total from 100k hit

So would the extra 8% healing received really make up for that kind of damage reduction, without even factoring in the fact you lose out on a little bit of extra armor/enchant values using 12k gear, and assuming you can still manage hard cap armor by other means?

For instance self heal from stone fist, assuming about a 8.5k base heal would give you a puny 680 healing and costs magicka?

Some of the above assumptions and calculations may be off but by my rough estimation I would say Footmans is still best in slot for Tanks (as much as I hate to say it - I really want to get rid of that set for something different, just anything else would make me a worse tank)

Endurance jewellery I would not even consider a tanking set since stam regen doesn't work while blocking.

There are a few nuances and, as you predicted, issues with your calculations that make footman a weaker choice.

A. Frequency of Hard Hitting Enemies

There is only one major enemy that I can think of that comes close to dealing the 100k physical damage of your example. That would be the Possessed Mantikora and, Maybe, the Warrior. Even if Footman is extremely good at damage mitigation, it's usefulness still comes down to a corner case.

B. End Game Champion Points

Two of the set bonuses, physical resistance and spell resistance, are as close to being not useful. Champion points will make these bonuses obsolete because, eventually, champion points will be giving the extra armor needed to cap tank at their resistances. This effect would also make the Unassailable set more viable. I'm not saying that the Unassailable set is what I have in mind, but as champion points go up, the armor rating of under-leveled items also can go up.

To a lesser extent, I also do not like the stamina given on the jewelry. Over time this stamina will be less useful as well because champion points will be adding to that stat.

C. Diminished Returns

The Footman Fortune 5 piece bonus isn't giving tanks the full 12% damage mitigation. From my testing, blocking with a high armor rating gave me a damage mitigation number and using the same set up, but with 5-piece footman, only increased my actual damage mitigation by about 3%. That is close to a 75% diminished return on investment.

So overall, not only are there few instances that Footman is actually needed, but those instances will dwindle as tanks gain more champion points. It is also the case that the Footman's Fortune set doesn't give close to the damage mitigation that it's tool tip states and it is therefore not only misleading, but also subjecting tanks to inefficiency.

The only reason I think that Footman even got popular is because tanks are starved for jewelry that is useful. Of course, the same could be said of any jewelry set, such as endurance, or even Unassailable.

reapthetempestrwb17_ESO wrote: »

Some good points about CP, however if I ever got to that point I could theoretically be keeping footmans and adjusting my other armour pieces eg to take advantage of other traits and armour passives.

One thing I liked about your idea (hinted at) is to spam stone fist for damage and crazy self/group heals (plus stam recovery). I haven't tried stone fist since the rework so might give it a go in the rotation

That is true about CP distribution. I could imagine players forgoing the extra armor in order to buff thick-skinned. There are only so many useful champion point specifications though.

Definitely try the Obsidian Shard Morph. I have been using it as my only heal in VWGT and AA HM. The skill does so much work that I wish I was an Altmer and vampire in order to use the skill more often.