Zorrashi wrote: »

LordSemaj wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

MMO literally stands for Farming and Grinding... let me break it down for you;

M = Farming
M = Grinding
O = Online

MMO = Farming and Grinding Online

Macro Multitaskers Online


On a more serious note, these games don't require grinding at all. They were based on RPGs that were intended to take years to progress through. It was intended to be a gradual thing where you log in for a few hours per day or week and EVENTUALLY get to the end, though with enough content updates no player ever would. Instead, people turned these games into their second job and no-lifed the crap out of them. Now people feel the need to grind just to keep up with the no-lifers. Even in a cooperate PVE setting, people feel the need to grind to keep up with newly released raid content.

Grinding is a myth, an invention of the minds of competitive players who want to be on the level of literally 2% of the server, the no-lifers who have scored their perfect gear arrangement. So few people proportionally ever achieve their gear sets and it becomes an eternal resetting ladder where maintaining the top positions require constant effort. If you're okay with not being in the top 2% of the server, you can get gear extremely easily and cheap because V14 stuff is out of date and V15 stuff not good enough to a powergamer.

But is it still a myth even though it was made reality?

An invention of the mind is not a reality, it's a delusion. Believing in aliens won't make one appear.

The need to grind is a figment of the imagination. Without belief in the concept, it fails to have any meaning.

sagitter wrote: »

Almost every mmo it's always the same "QQ about grinding" :
Here some of most famous mmos comments about QQ grinding:

World of Warcraft QQ grind review about legendary items from the web:

"I'm grinding elemental runes and it takes forever, prior to that it was those damn abrogator stones, and all I care about is the story. When BLIZZARD opens Tanaan jungle we will most likely have to collect hundreds of "jungle stones" (or whatever). I don't care about the ring, keep it. I don't mind waiting between patches, but the ginding suuucks. I wish it was possible to just do the story parts of the questline, without getting the ring of-course."

, wharammer online QQ grind review from the web:
"The RvR is the only thing this game is worth playing for but even that is a grind"

Age of Conan QQ grind review from the web:
"Why the PvE grind?!
I recently tried this out, loved the combat and class design, I am just totally baffled that PvP doesn't grant any experience on a PvP server... they advertise the PvP but you're honestly required to PvE grind quests for a good 100 hours before you get to endgame, then grind more for your crap to make you competitive."

Destiny QQ grind review from the web
"Destiny will be farming the same high-end content over and over again. As far as the best gear is concerned, it's currently looking like we're going to have to farm/grind the Vault of Glass, Nightfall missions, the Iron Banner, and other stuff similar to that."

Archeage library content QQ grinding poll from the web:
Do you consider the library grind (the content itself) fun? Yes or No.
some comments:
"Who the hell would think library grind is fun? You crazy?
Thats the worst and tiring thing I've ever seen.
Still, necessery... I wish it could be worse like korean version"

"The most appalling thing I've seen in a video game. You're all fooling yourselves if you think grinding to 55 in a library is a normal thing."

Eve Online
"EVE's greatest strength - is also it's greatest weakness. The SP grind for new players."

Lord of the Rings Online QQ grinding review from the web:
"I keep seeing threads talking about the supposedly poor direction the game has taken since WB took over or since the game went F2P. Inevitably, the people down on the game talk about how much more grind there is since then...."

Swtor online QQ grinding review from the web:
"Long story short I'm starting to feel the MMORPG burn after a couple of days, I think this game is to grindy and repetitive even for MMORPG standards do any of you guys feel the same?"

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn ,QQ grinding review from the web:
"Whoever says it's not grindy is a liar. This game is a huge grind-fest. It's still fun, don't get me wrong. But, you will grind fates, dungeons, and leves over and over to gain levels or extra classes. Hell, you'll run a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of low level fates to get your atma weapons (late game stuff).
It's fun, but it is incredibly grindy."

Guild Wars 2 QQ grinding review from the web
"Thoughts on the insane amount of Materials and Time Gating to acquire a single Ascended Weapon? As if this is what GW2 really needed in order to survive its second year on the market……
Hey GW2 you should consider paying a salary to all of your customers because playing GW2 is a full time job. For anyone who actually enjoys acquiring all this virtual non-sense can you please acquire and mail me the items in this below list? Thanks…."

Some grind facts about 2 others mmos:
Dark age of Camelot first Realm Rank 13 player (a rank system similar to Ava progression but with many more ability passive and active that requires way way more effort time, dozens milions of realm points obtainable only in pvp,like alliance points) took 450 days of play to get it.

My first miner worker char in Ultima Online took about 1 year to obtain 100 in mining skill

The list goes on but i hope you get what i'm talking about.This is mmo.

Exactly how much free time do you have on your hands?
I hope you didn't type this at work, or school.
If so...I think you should be fired, or fail the class.

Just kidding.

But...really...wow.

sagitter wrote: »

Exactly how much free time do you have on your hands?
I hope you didn't type this at work, or school.
If so...I think you should be fired, or fail the class.

Just kidding.

But...really...wow.

I'm at home, day off from work ^^

Cool, cool.

I like a person that "goes all out" for something they believe in.

YeOldeGamer wrote: »

This exactly. You want to see a grind? (that I loved every minute of btw.) Go try RS. If you never played Runescape, you don't know the struggle. In Runescape the grind was real. But I will NEVER forget the immence pride and satisfaction I got from slipping on that sweet Fire Cape after making Jad my b@#ch. Sweet memories.

I understand you fully, some people prefer to grind, some prefer to quest their way through games, other like to level up via PvP, and so on. We all have different preferences and Elder Scrolls Online does give us various options (it is a bit more grind focused though I have to admit).

I have to admit i'm a grinder, back in the day when I was playing Dark Age of Camelot you could always find me at the same spot, pulling the same mobs over and over, grouped with half a dozen AFK friends getting them XP while I was farming items and money, them were the days. Saying that though, in ESO I have really put effort into doing the quests and really enjoyed it.

It's not just mmo's that have a grind. Call of Duty and Battlefield games have a grind to get all ther guns, camo, attachments. Plus rank in those games are essentially same as levels in a mmo that require experience. The only game I can think of right off hand that has little to no grind and really amazing online multiplayer is DOOM and maybe Overwatch. Doom you will pretty much unlock all demons and guns really fast so the grind is pretty much non existent. The taunts take longer to unlock and so do the different armor pieces. Since taunts and armor are only cosmetic and don't give you an advantage at all in multiplayer you really don't need them at all. You can easily get every gun and demon unlocked in 1- 3 days of playing just an hour or 2 if you are good at FPS. The multiplayer is amazingly fun, but at no point do I feel like I have this huge grind wall preventing me from enjoying all aspects of the game. Overwatch I only played a little bit of the beta and it seemed "Okayish" and I passed on it and got Doom instead which I highly recommend.

As for NW or ESO, I have way more time in ESO. I liked eso until I got to 50 and then had vet levels. They recently removed vet levels and now I hate champion points.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO PLAY ESO READ THIS!!!

1. At level 50 you start getting champion points up to 160

2. every 10 levels of champion points = a new gear grind

3. The problem is its the same damn gear from the same place you did at champion 10 no matter if you are Champion 160

4. Do you like doing Elden Hallow over and over killing the same boss in the same dungeon for the exact same item you had at champion 10 just so you can get the champion 160 of that item

5. This was the easy way out for developers and a cheap ass way that seems very lazy on their part to keep players wanting to play the game

6. WOW and Everquest do it differently and their way makes for a more diverse and enjoyable experience

7. What they should of done was every 10 champion points have 5 new dungeons you unlock with new gear. Instead they make you do the exact same zones, mobs, bosses over and over for the same exact items. This is because creating a more variety of gear every 10 champion points in new zones would be a huge undertaking and increase development costs, but that is what Everquest and WOW did and why they are superior in that way. WOW and EQ also have way bigger budgets then ESO it would seem.

9. Who would want to do Blackwing Lair (WOW) or Skyshrine (EQ) again after getting your drops from there just to get the same item but a little better stats. I sure as hell don't. I want to get my drops from that dungeon/raid and move on to the next one that is completely different with completely different better gear.

10. Why ESO didn't do this. It would mean they would of had to create a bunch more dungeons/trials, new bosses, mobs, new zones, new story which would of made the game way bigger. We would of had more things to do, new zones to see, and a bigger variety of gear to obtain which would drastically increase development costs.

11. They chose to take the cheap lazy mans way out and do the rinse and repeat at a rate of nausea probably due to not wanting to spend the time and money required to take WOW or EQ's path in this aspect and so the we the gamer suffer.


NEVERWINTER you will pretty much hit a brick wall to get better gear unless you pay. Their grind is so so crazy if you want to obtain the good items/enchants without paying real cash that it makes Everquest 1 seem like the casual mans MMO! Neverwinter also has no in game chat like ESO which really ruins the multiplayer experience when you need to be able to talk to people. Also Neverwinter spams you with so much things trying to get you to spend real money that it ruins the immersion and experience. EQ 1 & 2 are F2P and their models are amazing in comparison and never do they seem intrusive on my gaming experience where it's like you better pay me or make me feel like if I don't pay up I can't enjoy everything the game can offer.

Don't get me wrong... The gameplay and combat in both are great fun, but the things I mentioned above kinda ruined the experience for me. If they kept the gameplay/combat the way it is, but made getting gear and exploring zones more like a EQ or WOW then I would of been hooked for sure. For now, I just log in when I am bored, beat all my other games, and have nothing to do for an hour or 2 which really saddens me because both these games could of been amazing and on par with EQ or WOW.

I like to craft. I make more sets for my characters than I really need, and sometimes I make stuff for sale or for friends. That means I need lots of mats. That means farming for mats or farming for gold. Or both.

justin.a.hairb14_ESO wrote: »

It's not just mmo's that have a grind. Call of Duty and Battlefield games have a grind to get all ther guns, camo, attachments. Plus rank in those games are essentially same as levels in a mmo that require experience. The only game I can think of right off hand that has little to no grind and really amazing online multiplayer is DOOM and maybe Overwatch. Doom you will pretty much unlock all demons and guns really fast so the grind is pretty much non existent. The taunts take longer to unlock and so do the different armor pieces. Since taunts and armor are only cosmetic and don't give you an advantage at all in multiplayer you really don't need them at all. You can easily get every gun and demon unlocked in 1- 3 days of playing just an hour or 2 if you are good at FPS. The multiplayer is amazingly fun, but at no point do I feel like I have this huge grind wall preventing me from enjoying all aspects of the game. Overwatch I only played a little bit of the beta and it seemed "Okayish" and I passed on it and got Doom instead which I highly recommend.

As for NW or ESO, I have way more time in ESO. I liked eso until I got to 50 and then had vet levels. They recently removed vet levels and now I hate champion points.

IF YOU ARE GOING TO PLAY ESO READ THIS!!!

1. At level 50 you start getting champion points up to 160

2. every 10 levels of champion points = a new gear grind

3. The problem is its the same damn gear from the same place you did at champion 10 no matter if you are Champion 160

4. Do you like doing Elden Hallow over and over killing the same boss in the same dungeon for the exact same item you had at champion 10 just so you can get the champion 160 of that item

5. This was the easy way out for developers and a cheap ass way that seems very lazy on their part to keep players wanting to play the game

6. WOW and Everquest do it differently and their way makes for a more diverse and enjoyable experience

7. What they should of done was every 10 champion points have 5 new dungeons you unlock with new gear. Instead they make you do the exact same zones, mobs, bosses over and over for the same exact items. This is because creating a more variety of gear every 10 champion points in new zones would be a huge undertaking and increase development costs, but that is what Everquest and WOW did and why they are superior in that way. WOW and EQ also have way bigger budgets then ESO it would seem.

9. Who would want to do Blackwing Lair (WOW) or Skyshrine (EQ) again after getting your drops from there just to get the same item but a little better stats. I sure as hell don't. I want to get my drops from that dungeon/raid and move on to the next one that is completely different with completely different better gear.

10. Why ESO didn't do this. It would mean they would of had to create a bunch more dungeons/trials, new bosses, mobs, new zones, new story which would of made the game way bigger. We would of had more things to do, new zones to see, and a bigger variety of gear to obtain which would drastically increase development costs.

11. They chose to take the cheap lazy mans way out and do the rinse and repeat at a rate of nausea probably due to not wanting to spend the time and money required to take WOW or EQ's path in this aspect and so the we the gamer suffer.


NEVERWINTER you will pretty much hit a brick wall to get better gear unless you pay. Their grind is so so crazy if you want to obtain the good items/enchants without paying real cash that it makes Everquest 1 seem like the casual mans MMO! Neverwinter also has no in game chat like ESO which really ruins the multiplayer experience when you need to be able to talk to people. Also Neverwinter spams you with so much things trying to get you to spend real money that it ruins the immersion and experience. EQ 1 & 2 are F2P and their models are amazing in comparison and never do they seem intrusive on my gaming experience where it's like you better pay me or make me feel like if I don't pay up I can't enjoy everything the game can offer.

Don't get me wrong... The gameplay and combat in both are great fun, but the things I mentioned above kinda ruined the experience for me. If they kept the gameplay/combat the way it is, but made getting gear and exploring zones more like a EQ or WOW then I would of been hooked for sure. For now, I just log in when I am bored, beat all my other games, and have nothing to do for an hour or 2 which really saddens me because both these games could of been amazing and on par with EQ or WOW.

No offence intended, but anyone who makes or gets themselves new gear every 10 CP is insane. Unless you're doing really high end content (which probably isn't the case if you have no CP on your account anyway) you can make yourself level 10 gear that will see you through to level 50, and then (if you have no CP already on your account and are earning CP as you go along with your first level 50 character) make yourself some CP10 gear that will see you all the way to CP150/160. No-one needs to grind to have new gear every 10 CP, that's nonsense.

DenMoria wrote: »

I'm not much of one for farming and grinding (I find it boring), but, from reading over this forum, I am getting the idea that true success is not attainable in ESO without grinding and farming for specific quantities of mats and equipment.

Am I wrong?

Any suggestions as to how you can farm without getting bored? Grinding I understand - it may be boring, but, at least it's just the same quest/delve/action over and over again.

Deifne "true success". MMO does not = grinding and farming. The MMO is what it is. It is only a certain type of player with a certain style of play style that grinds and farms. You do have options here based and what YOU want to do, not what you perceive everybody else is doing.

I don't grind or farm and consider myself as having succeeded at most of the stuff that interests me. Some of the stuff I avoid appears to me to be very popular with most players but I don't concern myself with others playing style. I play the way I want to and it hurts and impacts on nobody but me.

I have absolutely no criticism of players who grind or farm. Each to his/her own. I see this every day and it does not concern me at all.

To acquire the best in slot endgame gear in ESO, you have to grind way more than in other MMO's with a proper gear progression. What i'm saying is... in ESO, you can't plan out your min-maxing, because you can't predict when will you acquire a certain item that you need. It's because everything in this game is behind an RNG wall, instead of rewarding you, and your team based on skill, and a steady content clearing.

Other games, that have system like token based loot drop, you can set up a time table, use methods like DKP to make sure that everyone can plan out their min-maxing.

Not to mention that ESO has stupid restrictions like untradeable items between raidmembers.

It's all an unintuitive, archaic system. Thank god that you can be pretty efficient with crafted sets in endgame.

This game is so not grindy. Grinding/farming to me is repeating content. Well I'm cp 369 on my main and I'm not repeating content.

Levels 1-50 I did the ad main story. Then I did cadwells with some pvp mixed in that took me to about v14. Then I did dlc and got to v16 and lots of cp.

The bi product of that is lots of mats, skill points and gold. So I was able to buy jewelry and craft my own gear. It's s mix of purple and gold.

Now I think I'm truly getting into endgame so I'll start doing dungeons. To date I've only run 3.

The point of all this is that grinding/farming comes about because people don't want to work through the content that gets them from A to B that has story and variety. They make a decision to accelerate their progress by focussing on repetitive elements that cut out huge amounts of well written content.

If you think eso is a grind then it's because you have chosen to play it that way.

Korean MMOs usually have grind incorporated into the core of their game.
ESO being a western MMO is much more friendly in that sense.
You can earn gold by doing activities you like doing.

That being said, every MMO- including ESO have some sort of a RNG mechanic to obtaining gear. Otherwise the games would not last long.

Also, even if you are not being forced to grind gold, as long as there are players willing to grind, they will have accumulated more currency that is being used to purchase sought-out items.
The basic drive of every economy is the supply-demand ratio.

To recap:
If you WANT the best gear, you need to grind for it.
Otherwise, take what you can get. And ESO has a lot of middle-ground options IMO.

CidxLucy wrote: »

Funkopotamus wrote: »

CidxLucy wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Tbh I kind of enjoy the grind, mmo's are one of the only if not the only genre that require constant attention and work. Any game like for instance ff8, you could play for 50 hours and get near the end, then come back a year later and pick up where you left off. Regular games are more of a pick up here and there for a few hours a day.

Now mmo's are constantly evolving, and most of your work is to get.to top tier and be the best you can, which requires normally at least an hour or so a day?
Leave an MMO for a year and come back? Expect to find new level caps, that you require new gear, and to be below those that have stayed with it.

It's the nature of the beast. I love it.

Its been like what 3 month for ps4 and x1 and we get a dlc?!?
1.5 month later aftet game came they let you buy exp pot why because of CP. ESOwant down for me quick.

ff14 say they willnt add things to get cash shop to make you better then other.
Eso said they only add things to make you look different and wouldn't go P2W
Well look like eso just wants money dont care how they do it.

let othet way ff14 beat eso.

i got so many item in eso i dontknow what to do with them being i quit maybe i just remove eso from ps4 and forget about them.

0_o

But srsly? I know you are trapped in the PS4 and you do not have access to Neverwinter, but if it ever does come to PS4 I would suggest trying that..

People say Neverwinter is pay2win, BUT AGAIN I will challenge that as I myself have a fully decked out tank and wizard and most of everything on them was from grinding..

MMO's players today have to make a choice... They balk at a SUB FEE and then are going to be faced with either grind it out or pay up.... Simple as that. There are no companies developing games on an AIR,SUNSHINE budget..

Developers have to get paid people.....

I got a x1 and pc but i think ff14 just better then alot of game. I like P2p vs b2p games. i guess its my ocd to dump alot of money into b2p games with cash shop lol

btw
I not a big pvp person so eso first dlc make me sad i love pve I love to tank.

Lol, two of the best dungeons in the game came with Imperial City.
Not to mention hard- other dungeons are doable without tanks.
What more can a tank wish for?