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So now that are Zergs are godmode...
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FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »What would the AOE spamming do for server performance?
I don't see how they are supposed to design a game where having more people in large scale PvP does not give you an advantage.
Removal of AOE caps means two things.
First, the server has significantly less calculations to do. Simply number of people hit = apply dmg (less resistances etc). Now you have many more calculations based on X amount of damage for first 6 people hit, 50% less for XYZ people hit etc etc. Less calculations = less server stress = less lag.
Secondly, it stops the zergs from abusing the fact that if they stack on top of each other they mitigate a ton of damage. In fact with the removal of AOE caps people blobbing up would make it easier to kill them. They would be forced to spread out and this is good for overall game health.
Actually it just means one thing. Big zergs out in the open, running tight with barriers and rapids spamming impulse and Prox det killing everything in their path. Running over all the "small" groups. There are videos of this if you look for them.
Oh yeah., and uh, that;'s what ZoS was trying to stop in the first place iirc. /rolls eyes
Thats what is happening now. Removing AOE caps is the first step to giving those players a chance to fight this.2 -
ToRelax✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don't get why there should be AoE caps on damage skills. Group heals, sure. Removal of AoE healing caps would encourage zerballing even more. But AoE damage skills, including "leeching" oens should be uncapped (with Sap Essence in it's current state being the exception cauz it heals allies, too).
If I hit more than 6 players at once, it's time for them to spread out, period. If they want to all get hit at once or even feed me resources, that's their choice, I don't force anyone to form a zergball...DAGON - ALTADOON - CHIM - GHARTOK
The Covenant is broken. The Enemy has won...
Elo'dryel - Sorc - AR 50 - Hopesfire - EP EU0 -
Efficient✭✭✭I need to bump this thread and will continue to do so, as I support the removal of AOE caps. Although I know as a community our opinion to Zenimax means nothing.
Thanks.4 -
LegendaryChef✭✭✭✭✭Remove the AoE caps.Zzoro/Elliot Brown/Baldy ~Kitesquad/Noricum~
PC EU.
Spider mount was the only good part about morrowind release.6 -
Ghostbane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Talons is blockable, might as well remove the caps.{★★★★★ · ★★★★★ · ★★ · ★★★★★}350m+ AP PC - EUAddons
AD :: Imported Waffles [37]EP :: Wee ee ee ee ee [16]DC :: Ghostbane's DK [16], Impending Loadscreen [12]PC - NA
AD :: Ghostbane [50], yer ma [43], Sir Humphrey Winterbottom 2.0 [18], robotic baby legs [18]EP :: Wee Mad Arthur [50], avast ye buttcrackz [49], Sir Horace Foghorn [27], Brother Ballbag [24], Scatman John [16]DC :: W T B Waffles [36], Morale Boost [30], W T F Waffles [17], Ghostbanë [15]RIPAD :: Sir Humphrey Winterbottom 1.0 [20]- AP Meter : All your AP needs
- Greyskull : Customisable, colour-coded Damage Meter
- Auto Research Scrolls : Automatic management of crafting research scrolls
- ITTs Donation Bot : Donation tracker for Guilds
- ITTs Roster Bot : Roster management for Guilds
1 -
eventide03b14a_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I refer you all to this thread: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/218343/bug-trap-beast-multi-spam#latest:trollin:0 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rune_Relic wrote: »So If I can now hit 60 people for 100% damage...at same cost...why would I use anything but AoE ?
Perhaps there is still a few people that remember before caps were raised to 60.
You know...after which they had to cut campaign sizes down to 1/10th the size because raising the players hit caused so much more lag.
Some people have really, really short memories or have serious power craving issues.
Giving players god like abilities does not (has not) fix lag.
It just gives a bigger group of players even more godlike abilities.
We are trying to get away from players with 1 sec TTK....and your solution is to go back to a 1 sec TTK with OP skills.
Even if you replace 4 executional branches with 1 branch..you still have to do all the Hots/Dots/Heals/Damage calcs on 60 people regardless...which have to be selected form an infinite number of people within a selection radius. Which also have to identify potential synergie players to be notified
Will it be quicker....obviously.
Will it improve anything in the greater scheme of things...nope.
All I see is a "make me godmode" scream.
If you are a zerg monkey I understand how you think this.
People aren't asking to hit unlimited amount of players. Just get rid of this diminishing returns cap that renders zergs and zerg monkeys near invincible except against other zerg and zerg monkeys.
Solo player for the most part trying to find small fights.
It will do higher damage to the lesser damaged players who will heal it off or purge it regardless.
It will make no difference to those already receiving full damage.
vis-a-vis all it will do is make skills more powerful without having any other effect.
I am far from a zerg monkey or I wouldn't be proposing ideas like this.....
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/214013/pvp-zerg-fix#latest
Reducing stacked groups damage, mitigation and healing is the way to go.
Not make OP players and the ZERG ever more powerful.Anything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
Garion✭✭✭✭✭
✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »What would the AOE spamming do for server performance?
I don't see how they are supposed to design a game where having more people in large scale PvP does not give you an advantage.
Removal of AOE caps means two things.
First, the server has significantly less calculations to do. Simply number of people hit = apply dmg (less resistances etc). Now you have many more calculations based on X amount of damage for first 6 people hit, 50% less for XYZ people hit etc etc. Less calculations = less server stress = less lag.
Secondly, it stops the zergs from abusing the fact that if they stack on top of each other they mitigate a ton of damage. In fact with the removal of AOE caps people blobbing up would make it easier to kill them. They would be forced to spread out and this is good for overall game health.
Actually it just means one thing. Big zergs out in the open, running tight with barriers and rapids spamming impulse and Prox det killing everything in their path. Running over all the "small" groups. There are videos of this if you look for them.
Oh yeah., and uh, that;'s what ZoS was trying to stop in the first place iirc. /rolls eyes
Sorry... I am confused. You seem to be describing the current meta?Lastobeth - VR16 Sorc - PvP Rank 41 (AD)
Lastoblyat - VR16 Templar - PvP Rank 14 (AD)
Ninja Pete - VR16 NB - PvP Rank 10 (AD)
Labo the Banana Slayer - VR14 Sorc - PvP Rank 12 (EP)
Member of Banana Squad | Officer of Arena6 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rune_Relic wrote: »So If I can now hit 60 people for 100% damage...at same cost...why would I use anything but AoE ?
Perhaps there is still a few people that remember before caps were raised to 60.
You know...after which they had to cut campaign sizes down to 1/10th the size because raising the players hit caused so much more lag.
Some people have really, really short memories or have serious power craving issues.
Giving players god like abilities does not (has not) fix lag.
It just gives a bigger group of players even more godlike abilities.
We are trying to get away from players with 1 sec TTK....and your solution is to go back to a 1 sec TTK with OP skills.
Even if you replace 4 executional branches with 1 branch..you still have to do all the Hots/Dots/Heals/Damage calcs on 60 people regardless...which have to be selected form an infinite number of people within a selection radius. Which also have to identify potential synergie players to be notified
Will it be quicker....obviously.
Will it improve anything in the greater scheme of things...nope.
All I see is a "make me godmode" scream.
Sorry, you clearly don't know what you are talking about...
Firstly, you make it sound as if people contemplate not using AOE because of the existence of the AOE cap. That's ridiculous. I don't think "oh, my fire ring will only hit 6 people at max damage so I will use crystal fragments instead trololol". Tell me, if you were fighting 60 people now - why would you choose anything but AOE (out of choice?) People use abilities based on their build and what they are trying to achieve with that build. They do not choose abilities based on the existence (or not) of an AOE cap and it is stupid to suggest otherwise.
They choose skills based on cost vs damage. When playing against multiple adversaries all that matters is how much total DPS you can push out in that regard.
In regard to lag I think most of us remember as well as you do. The lag however is caused by the server not being able to handle what is being asked of it. In the current state of affairs it has to calculate all of the diminishing returns. With no AOE cap, none of these calculations are necessary in the absence of a cap. I am not going to go into too much detail here as I am on my phone but this should be obvious. Saying we won't see an improvement is almost certainly wrong.
Rubbish. You have changed 4 lines of code for 1 line of code.
All the rest of the lines of code are the same after that point...at upto 60x regardless of diminishing return.. it still has to cycle through all the 60 players after selecting them from a pool that could be infinite.
Regardless, if we don't seen an improvement in lag because of the reduction in calculations we will most certainly see a reduction in lag because of the need for people to play differently. Running in a blob will prove far more dangerous and (heaven forbid!) spreading out will have an advantage. Less blobs = less lag.
Running in a blob will be resolved the same way it was resolved when caps were raised to 60.
People will mitigate and adapt...exactly as they did last time and I warned would happen last time.
Which is why campaign size was hammered and lag got 10x worse
This has nothing to do with craving power or wanting God mode. It's about countering a game style that ruins the enjoyment of the game for the majority of people outside the bubble of people who choose to play this way - I am confident, based on your post, that you are one of them.
Miss and miss....try harder...
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/214013/pvp-zerg-fix/p1
If you can come back and give me a cohesive argument as to why having huge numbers should warrant a reduction in damage you receive I might listen. Otherwise, I can't see why anyone would be against the removal of caps except because their playstyle benefits from it.
...Edited by Rune_Relic on September 21, 2015 9:13PMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »Rune_Relic wrote: »So If I can now hit 60 people for 100% damage...at same cost...why would I use anything but AoE ?
Perhaps there is still a few people that remember before caps were raised to 60.
You know...after which they had to cut campaign sizes down to 1/10th the size because raising the players hit caused so much more lag.
Some people have really, really short memories or have serious power craving issues.
Giving players god like abilities does not (has not) fix lag.
It just gives a bigger group of players even more godlike abilities.
We are trying to get away from players with 1 sec TTK....and your solution is to go back to a 1 sec TTK with OP skills.
Even if you replace 4 executional branches with 1 branch..you still have to do all the Hots/Dots/Heals/Damage calcs on 60 people regardless...which have to be selected form an infinite number of people within a selection radius. Which also have to identify potential synergie players to be notified
Will it be quicker....obviously.
Will it improve anything in the greater scheme of things...nope.
All I see is a "make me godmode" scream.
Sorry, you clearly don't know what you are talking about...
Firstly, you make it sound as if people contemplate not using AOE because of the existence of the AOE cap. That's ridiculous. I don't think "oh, my fire ring will only hit 6 people at max damage so I will use crystal fragments instead trololol". Tell me, if you were fighting 60 people now - why would you choose anything but AOE (out of choice?) People use abilities based on their build and what they are trying to achieve with that build. They do not choose abilities based on the existence (or not) of an AOE cap and it is stupid to suggest otherwise.
They choose skills based on cost vs damage. When playing against multiple adversaries all that matters is how much total DPS you can push out in that regard.
In regard to lag I think most of us remember as well as you do. The lag however is caused by the server not being able to handle what is being asked of it. In the current state of affairs it has to calculate all of the diminishing returns. With no AOE cap, none of these calculations are necessary in the absence of a cap. I am not going to go into too much detail here as I am on my phone but this should be obvious. Saying we won't see an improvement is almost certainly wrong.
Rubbish. You have changed 4 lines of code for 1 line of code.
All the rest of the lines of code are the same after that point...at upto 60x regardless of diminishing return.. it still has to cycle through all the 60 players after selecting them from a pool that could be infinite.
Regardless, if we don't seen an improvement in lag because of the reduction in calculations we will most certainly see a reduction in lag because of the need for people to play differently. Running in a blob will prove far more dangerous and (heaven forbid!) spreading out will have an advantage. Less blobs = less lag.
Running in a blob will be resolved the same way it was resolved when caps were raised to 60.
People will mitigate and adapt...exactly as they did last time and I warned would happen last time.
Whoch is way campaign size was hammered and lag got 10x worse
This has nothing to do with craving power or wanting God mode. It's about countering a game style that ruins the enjoyment of the game for the majority of people outside the bubble of people who choose to play this way - I am confident, based on your post, that you are one of them.
Miss and miss....try harder...
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-GB/discussion/214013/pvp-zerg-fix/p1
If you can come back and give me a cohesive argument as to why having huge numbers should warrant a reduction in damage you receive I might listen. Otherwise, I can't see why anyone would be against the removal of caps except because their playstyle benefits from it.
...
Youre overthinking things in that thread you made. Also, all that matters is DPS when facing multiple adverseries = completely and 100% false.
You want to institute mechanics that punish players. Removing AOE caps simply puts things on an even playing field.
Also its pretty likely no matter how much coding youve done that you dont know how convoluted or what type of impact 'changes in code' would make. Removing AOE caps would prevent 20v20 barrier/heal flooding from going on so long though.
Addressing the defensive side of the equation is another story, start with AOE caps. They are an abomination to PvP.
You shouldnt take half damage from someone because youre standing next to 6 people in your faction.8 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Unless ZOS wants defensive skills to trump offensive skills.
In that case , the caps on offensive AoE and the lack of caps on defensive AoE makes perfect sense.
0 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭LegendaryChef wrote: »I would also really appreciate my negate magic to actually negate magic and not require a break free because when you think about it, it doesn't make much sense.
Actually it does make sense because being silenced is considered a CC. The problem in this game is that we can CC break anything every 6seconds which is wrong. We should only be able to cc break every 1-2minutes and there should be different diminishing returns for every category of ccs (silences, roots, snares, stuns, fears, off balance). I would also suggest to group the diminishing returns of roots + snares and silences + stuns together. In the end you would have to decide what to cc break every 1-2minutes or so and there would be no cc immunity anymore from cc breaking, only a diminishing return of 8 seconds or so. You could still get CC immunity for X seconds from skills, passives, gear bonuses.
This isnt a 10v10 bg... This is cyrodiil you should be able to break free every 6 seconds. The amount of different scenarios and situations that can happen in cyrodiil warrant ability's and no CDs like this. If you make it a 1-2 min CD on break free guess what, that favors zergs
All this time and people still dont know how to or how cyrodiil is supposed to be played. The lack of overall understanding of strategy and lack of knowledge of the game all combined is staggering in all these post. In 1.5 i was arguing that we dont need to remove AOE caps but balance a few skills. While people were complaining about zergs i was running around in groups of 4-6 using certain parts of cyrodiil to my advantage to fight way more numbers.
Things are different now and the way the game plays now maybe AOE cap removal would be a good thing.1 -
Teargrants✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Purge isn't capped to begin with....So removing cap from Purge would mean it only requires 1 person spamming it and making his *organized* grp of 30 tornados happy and immune to everything. HUehuheuehue.
Brainless zergers asking for brainless buffs.
#NERF_PURGE
So, huehuehuehuehue.POST EQVITEM SEDET ATRA CVRA
▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀▀
EP ※ Teargrants ※
EP ※ Kissgrants ※
DC ※ Kirsi ※
※ Vehemence Council ※
※ #JustOutOfRenderRange ※
~Teargrants YouTube~
┬┴┬┴┤(･_├┬┴┬┴4 -
themdogesbite✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm so dissapointed that they didnt manage to sort out latency issues.. Azuras Star EU is unplayable, frames are about as low as during the FPS drop era and theres so many 24+ man raids. Not playable arround them..
Its time to PUNISH LARGE TURTELING GROUPS.:]6 -
Garion✭✭✭✭✭
✭So removing cap from Purge would mean it only requires 1 person spamming it and making his *organized* grp of 30 tornados happy and immune to everything. HUehuheuehue.
Brainless zergers asking for brainless buffs.
#NERF_PURGE
Barrier and purge should be capped. That's a given. I have already posted a thread on this that garnered a lot of support (and a lot of opposition!) Nothing came of it however. No surprises there.Lastobeth - VR16 Sorc - PvP Rank 41 (AD)
Lastoblyat - VR16 Templar - PvP Rank 14 (AD)
Ninja Pete - VR16 NB - PvP Rank 10 (AD)
Labo the Banana Slayer - VR14 Sorc - PvP Rank 12 (EP)
Member of Banana Squad | Officer of Arena0 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭Teargrants wrote: »
Purge isn't capped to begin with....So removing cap from Purge would mean it only requires 1 person spamming it and making his *organized* grp of 30 tornados happy and immune to everything. HUehuheuehue.
Brainless zergers asking for brainless buffs.
#NERF_PURGE
So, huehuehuehuehue.
heuheueheueheueheueheue
I love all the bads who think they know the game then come onto the forums talking like they know stuff. They are like bandwagon fans of sport teams that cant even name the players on the team.Edited by krim on September 22, 2015 8:13PM1 -
themdogesbite✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Litteraly EVERY fight. Kill one raid and the other will come arround the corner. 44+ unique enemies hit is something i reach way to frequently.
@ZOS is this how you WANT your game to be played? In high ping and low fps? Atleast give us some BGs or something so we can get playable PvP please.:]2 -
Lava_Croft✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
1: Hello Wabbajack!johan.danielsson1994b16_ESO wrote: »
Litteraly EVERY fight. Kill one raid and the other will come arround the corner. 44+ unique enemies hit is something i reach way to frequently.
@ZOS is this how you WANT your game to be played? In high ping and low fps? Atleast give us some BGs or something so we can get playable PvP please.
2: The guy whispering you about 20 EP has no problems running in a group of 20+ himself. Cute.
3: The game is sold on the premise of large scale battles. ZOS has to fix this, or just remove/shrink Cyrodiil.
Edited by Lava_Croft on September 22, 2015 8:26PM0 -
MisterBigglesworth✭✭✭✭✭
✭Magicka Detonation tooltip should read:
Hence, if it hits 10 targets, everyone instantly dies.Reduce target's health by 10%, multiplied by number of targets hit.
Really we do it without like, the musical instruments. This is the only musical: the mouth. And hopefully the brain attached to the mouth. Right? The brain, more important than the mouth, is the brain. The brain is much more important.2 -
Mr_Nobody✭✭✭✭✭Teargrants wrote: »
Purge isn't capped to begin with....So removing cap from Purge would mean it only requires 1 person spamming it and making his *organized* grp of 30 tornados happy and immune to everything. HUehuheuehue.
Brainless zergers asking for brainless buffs.
#NERF_PURGE
So, huehuehuehuehue.
heuheueheueheueheueheue
I love all the bads who think they know the game then come onto the forums talking like they know stuff. They are like bandwagon fans of sport teams that cant even name the players on the team.
I love the bads who have no sense of humor and yet promote the *organized* ballstacking gameplay.0 -
Mr_Nobody✭✭✭✭✭So removing cap from Purge would mean it only requires 1 person spamming it and making his *organized* grp of 30 tornados happy and immune to everything. HUehuheuehue.
Brainless zergers asking for brainless buffs.
#NERF_PURGE
Barrier and purge should be capped. That's a given. I have already posted a thread on this that garnered a lot of support (and a lot of opposition!) Nothing came of it however. No surprises there.
Not even capped. They have to be reworked and/or nerfed.
Barrier could stay as it is (Its an ultimate), Purge just can not.
This is an equivalent ability of what was in DAoC, except you could only use it on a 5/10 minute timer. For a reason.
It either has to be treated as purify - meaning the player would have to actually use it and click X ~
Or... Hard cap of 3-5 players added.
Currently all siege (which needs to be reworked also since it does basically nothing atm., damage wise) means nothing to a Purge spamming group. AoE debuffs and spells which should work as a counter to such groups - simply do not due to the amazing organizing of certain groups having multiple people mashing the very same button.Edited by Mr_Nobody on September 22, 2015 9:56PM0 -
krim✭✭✭✭✭Teargrants wrote: »
Purge isn't capped to begin with....So removing cap from Purge would mean it only requires 1 person spamming it and making his *organized* grp of 30 tornados happy and immune to everything. HUehuheuehue.
Brainless zergers asking for brainless buffs.
#NERF_PURGE
So, huehuehuehuehue.
heuheueheueheueheueheue
I love all the bads who think they know the game then come onto the forums talking like they know stuff. They are like bandwagon fans of sport teams that cant even name the players on the team.
I love the bads who have no sense of humor and yet promote the *organized* ballstacking gameplay.
You are confused buddy.0 -
Sanct16✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bring back 1.5 ultimate generation without any softcaps. You stack with 50 people? Fine, get rekt.- EU - Raid Leader of Banana Zerg Squad
AD | AR 50 | Sanct Fir'eheal | ex Mana DK @31.10.2015
EP | AR 50 | Sanctosaurus | Mana NB
AD | AR 44 | rekt ya | Mana NB
AD | AR 41 | Sanct Thunderstorm | Mana Sorc
EP | AR 36 | S'na'ct | Mana NB {NA}
AD | AR 29 | Captain Full Fist| Stam DK
AD | AR 29 | Sanct The Dark Phoenix| Stam Sorc
EP | AR 16 | Horny Sanct | Stam Warden
EP | AR 16 | Sánct Bánáná Sláyér | Mana DK
DC | AR 13 | ad worst faction eu | Stam Sorc
DC | AR 13 | Lagendary Sanct | Mana NB
>320.000.000 AP19 -
Bramir✭✭✭✭and if i get zerged in IC from like 20 men+ i dont wanna lose my tel'var stones because they dont deserve it at all!
This is my one complaint about the ruleset for IC. If a single player kills me, they absolutely deserve almost all of my stones. If a zerg kills me while I'm alone, they should get a smaller percentage of my stones for each player above 2, or something like that. They do not deserve the full benefit from killing me, because I was nothing but a bump in the road, and I had literally zero chance of winning the fight.
There should also be a reward for escaping a zerg, since that takes far more skill than the zergers are using...if you get hit by 10+ people and survive to get out of combat, there should be a reward...
1 -
_Chaos✭✭✭✭✭
✭There should also be a reward for escaping a zerg, since that takes far more skill than the zergers are using...if you get hit by 10+ people and survive to get out of combat, there should be a reward...
So Sorcs and NB's can have even more of an advantage in IC? Great idea.Edited by _Chaos on September 23, 2015 2:21PM'Chaos1 -
LegendaryChef✭✭✭✭✭This is my one complaint about the ruleset for IC. If a single player kills me, they absolutely deserve almost all of my stones. If a zerg kills me while I'm alone, they should get a smaller percentage of my stones for each player above 2, or something like that. They do not deserve the full benefit from killing me, because I was nothing but a bump in the road, and I had literally zero chance of winning the fight.
There should also be a reward for escaping a zerg, since that takes far more skill than the zergers are using...if you get hit by 10+ people and survive to get out of combat, there should be a reward...
So everyone should reroll a NB then?Zzoro/Elliot Brown/Baldy ~Kitesquad/Noricum~
PC EU.
Spider mount was the only good part about morrowind release.0
