Should the Daedric Summoning sorc tree be fixed?

NateAssassin · September 2015

I find it funny that Daedric Summoning has an almost mandatory Sorc ability, and the rest of the abilities are useless or borderline useless.

stimpy986b14_ESO · September 2015

No

The entire tree doesn't need to be fixed, only the two abilities that actually summon Daedra.

Storm Atronach, Daedric Curse, Bound Armor, and Conjured Ward all work fine and are arguably the best skills in the class.

The Daedra summons can actually be fixed very simply

Make them not toggles and give them a 30 second duration then balance them around this 30 second duration (buff damage and decrease magicka cost).

Tonturri · September 2015

Yes

The bit with the scamp/imp exploding has been adjusted - it is now back to exploding for 20% magicka. Mine was exploding for 10k crits on mobs, 30k magicka. Sounds about right.

Anyway, yes. Not only are the pets plain week, they don't have very many options, the cast time is atrocious, they still cost a massive chunk of magicka, and the rebate passive is almost worthless. I'd like to one day be able to assign the healing Winged Twilight to other players while healing on my sorcerer, that would be a good way to increase effectiveness while not making the spells overpowered. Perhaps casting Ward whenever the Twilight was following someone else would grant the other player a portion of the ward as well. Something like that.

stimpy986b14_ESO wrote: »

The entire tree doesn't need to be fixed, only the two abilities that actually summon Daedra.

Storm Atronach, Daedric Curse, Bound Armor, and Conjured Ward all work fine and are arguably the best skills in the class.

The Daedra summons can actually be fixed very simply

Make them not toggles and give them a 30 second duration then balance them around this 30 second duration (buff damage and decrease magicka cost).

Imo the magicka morph of Bound Armor could be given a little love, but other than that I agree.

>.> Really, morphing for 900 armor? Not even worth the skill point.

Flaminir · September 2015

Yes

Yes... but with a caveat...

Not all of the tree is junk.... but that which is junk is REALLY bad:

Storm Atro: It's basically a single target DPS skill... so no reason to ever use this instead of Overload which does far higher DPS and for longer. JUNK
Curse: Strong in PvP... decent enough skill & can't be reflected. Pet morph is junk though.
Bound Armor: Not a huge fan myself... but 8% extra magicka/stamina & 2% spell/weapon power is decent enough.
Conjured Ward: One of the Sorc's best skills... Hardened ward is great... the other morph is junk.
Twilight: Useless... weak, rubbish DPS, fragile, poor & infrequent heal... not enough space to say how bad this is at end game.
Clanfear/Imp: Imp is ok for a magicka bomb... but clunky. Clanfear has a role in levelling builds, but at endgame is useless. Rubbish DPS and awkward.

TL;DR.... the tree doesn't need entirely fixing... the pets do.

Jar_Ek · September 2015

Yes

Yes.
CP points don't affect pets.
Pets only scale with level and max magicka (not great for stamina builds).
Pets have no active component and are hence a bit dull.
Pets lack a decent level of control (ie we cannot always control them) and the AI is a bit dim.
Pets and Bound Armour are toggles and hence tend to eat slots.
Storm Atronach no longer taunts and is static.
50% of the skill line passives require the use of a Pet.
Rebate passive is weak now.

On the up side:

Clannfear is a decent off-tank, even into vet levels and vet dungeons.
Ward and curse are both great for PvP as a magicka build (they are not great for stamina).

But do they need to fix things... Yes.

Xilc · September 2015

Yes

Jar_Ek wrote: »

Clannfear is a decent off-tank, even into vet levels and vet dungeons.

I'd rather have a daedroth than the weak clannfear though. Like what a joke...

Dymence · September 2015

Yes

The pets are just plain bad, and frankly I don't know what they could possibly do to ever make them good, them taking up so many skill slots as toggles and all.

Hiero_Glyph · September 2015

Yes

Bound Armor still requires that it be slotted on both bars or else the effect is instantly lost when switching weapons. I'm sorry but this is just a poorly designed game mechanic. Regardless of what benefit the skill provides it should not require having to be slotted on both bars to work properly.

CGPsaint · September 2015

I am by no means in any position to say that this is a "Learn To Play" situation, however you might want to rethink your build, and how you use it. I'm currently working on a level 17 Sorc/Pet build and use the following:

Bar 1 - Restoration Staff

X - Combat Prayer - (Allies also gain a damage bonus)
Y - Ward Ally - (Shields ally and self)
B - Thundering Presence - (Increased duration. Causes the skill to scale on weapon damage and stamina)
LB - Unstable Clannfear - (Summons a Clannfear with increased Health that heals you when it dies)
RB - Summon Twilight Matriarch - (Heals you when at low Health)
LB+RB - Energy Overload - (Light and heavy attacks restore Magicka)

*Will drop Thundering Presence and will add Empowered Ward - (Affected pets deal additional damage) once I hit Daedric Summoning Rank 42.

Bar 2 - Destruction Staff (Inferno)

X - Crystal Fragments - (Chance to make ability instant cast)
Y - Lightning Flood - (as increased radius)
B - Destructive Clench OR Force Pulse
LB - Unstable Clannfear - (Summons a Clannfear with increased Health that heals you when it dies)
RB - Summon Twilight Matriarch - (Heals you when at low Health)
LB+RB - Energy Overload - (Light and heavy attacks restore Magicka)

I use the 1st bar to maintain my pets, and the 2nd bar to throw in an AOE and additional DPS, while my Clannfear tanks, and my Twilight Matriarch does whatever it is that she does.

That being said, this build is not by any means going to give you a ton of DPS, but it will allow you to solo a large portion of the content if you use your build wisely. My first character is a level 30 Stamina DK Archer/DW and I was getting crushed regularly in PvE. I have not died a single time in PvE with the build above, mainly because the aggro is primarily directed at my Clannfear.

MikeB · September 2015

Yes

I wish they would add a good summoning class period. The Sorc tree is horrible even with the buffs.

Xilc · September 2015

Yes

CGPsaint wrote: »

I am by no means in any position to say that this is a "Learn To Play" situation, however you might want to rethink your build, and how you use it. I'm currently working on a level 17 Sorc/Pet build and use the following:

Bar 1 - Restoration Staff
X - Combat Prayer - (Allies also gain a damage bonus)

Y - Ward Ally - (Shields ally and self)

B - Thundering Presence - (Increased duration. Causes the skill to scale on weapon damage and stamina)

LB - Unstable Clannfear - (Summons a Clannfear with increased Health that heals you when it dies)

RB - Summon Twilight Matriarch - (Heals you when at low Health)

LB+RB - Energy Overload - (Light and heavy attacks restore Magicka)

*Will drop Thundering Presence and will add Empowered Ward - (Affected pets deal additional damage) once I hit Daedric Summoning Rank 42.

Bar 2 - Destruction Staff (Inferno)
X - Crystal Fragments - (Chance to make ability instant cast)

Y - Lightning Flood - (as increased radius)

B - Destructive Clench OR Force Pulse

LB - Unstable Clannfear - (Summons a Clannfear with increased Health that heals you when it dies)

RB - Summon Twilight Matriarch - (Heals you when at low Health)

LB+RB - Energy Overload - (Light and heavy attacks restore Magicka)

I use the 1st bar to maintain my pets, and the 2nd bar to throw in an AOE and additional DPS, while my Clannfear tanks, and my Twilight Matriarch does whatever it is that she does.

That being said, this build is not by any means going to give you a ton of DPS, but it will allow you to solo a large portion of the content if you use your build wisely. My first character is a level 30 Stamina DK Archer/DW and I was getting crushed regularly in PvE. I have not died a single time in PvE with the build above, mainly because the aggro is primarily directed at my Clannfear.

I really don't think you can put summons on both bars and switch bars like that....

CGPsaint · September 2015

Xilc wrote: »

I really don't think you can put summons on both bars and switch bars like that....

You most certainly can. If you only have summons on one bar, then they are dismissed as soon as you switch bars.

Morimizo · September 2015

Yes

Everything you mentioned, but most of all just want some variety to the summons.

Would like a Daedroth, please.

Or a 4-ft tall mini-version of Molag Bal, that can still pick up my enemies and squeeze them while calling them 'George.' Now, that's a reward for finishing the main quest!!

angelyn · September 2015

Yes

I believe there was another recent thread about this, where some good points were also raised:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/216071/please-fix-sorcerer-pets/p1

So ill just paste what I said there

angelyn wrote: »

I'd love if the one of the (non ultimate )pets had an AOE option . I did experiment with a double pet build, slotting ward ,prey , shattering prison and bound armour. I found it hard to find space for AOE on my bar. (Especially if you wanted to use magelight) And being a vamp too..well slots are at a premium. The pets just seem quite single target focused. .

I would also loved if they looked at the traits on the Necropotence set. Surely , there are better options than sturdy. Are there any other sets in the game that only drop with sturdy? This alone would make me very happy Also If it could scale past v12 (along with numerous other sets )

Wierdly I did try a pet-healer build running round in IC with 2 others. I used Necropotence and healer set , getting both 5 set bonus.(please don't nerf them!) I had fun with this, but I'm not a healer and it's probably doesn't match up to templar. .

I never knew they don't scale with CP..Are there any other class skills that don't scale with CP?

Anyway, I'm a casual, heavily medicated, teddy bear, flower picker..so I'm no expert on these things but ..those are my thoughts.

EDIT: I wasn't referring to the entire skill line, just the pets. Also I'm not sure if the 5 pc bonus from Necropotence, actually makes up the magicka you lose from not having infused/divines on it(being limited to sturdy). So yeah it might say 10% max magicka increase but maybe it evens out , or works out to 5% or something like that.

Mitchblue · September 2015

Yes

Never seen a pet build that was a viable in PVP ever. It'd be nice if there was. If you PVP, there's no reason to use pets. None.

Stranglehands · September 2015

No

Xilc wrote: »

I really don't think you can put summons on both bars and switch bars like that....

you are ranting and raving about daedric summoning and you don't even know that.

CGPsaint · September 2015

Stranglehands wrote: »

Xilc wrote: »

I really don't think you can put summons on both bars and switch bars like that....

you are ranting and raving about daedric summoning and you don't even know that.

Well, there is that! We just need to do our part and educate him!

Stranglehands · September 2015

No

To be fair I find that the most useful thing pets do is create a distraction. I use a clannfear on my sorc tank as it turned out better than bound aegis for tanking and it doubles as my best self-heal. They've pretty much made daedric summoning the tanking line for sorcerers these days, come to think of it

Colosso-monstro · September 2015

CGPsaint wrote: »

I am by no means in any position to say that this is a "Learn To Play" situation, however you might want to rethink your build, and how you use it. I'm currently working on a level 17 Sorc/Pet build and use the following:

Bar 1 - Restoration Staff
X - Combat Prayer - (Allies also gain a damage bonus)

Y - Ward Ally - (Shields ally and self)

B - Thundering Presence - (Increased duration. Causes the skill to scale on weapon damage and stamina)

LB - Unstable Clannfear - (Summons a Clannfear with increased Health that heals you when it dies)

RB - Summon Twilight Matriarch - (Heals you when at low Health)

LB+RB - Energy Overload - (Light and heavy attacks restore Magicka)

*Will drop Thundering Presence and will add Empowered Ward - (Affected pets deal additional damage) once I hit Daedric Summoning Rank 42.

Bar 2 - Destruction Staff (Inferno)
X - Crystal Fragments - (Chance to make ability instant cast)

Y - Lightning Flood - (as increased radius)

B - Destructive Clench OR Force Pulse

LB - Unstable Clannfear - (Summons a Clannfear with increased Health that heals you when it dies)

RB - Summon Twilight Matriarch - (Heals you when at low Health)

LB+RB - Energy Overload - (Light and heavy attacks restore Magicka)

I use the 1st bar to maintain my pets, and the 2nd bar to throw in an AOE and additional DPS, while my Clannfear tanks, and my Twilight Matriarch does whatever it is that she does.

That being said, this build is not by any means going to give you a ton of DPS, but it will allow you to solo a large portion of the content if you use your build wisely. My first character is a level 30 Stamina DK Archer/DW and I was getting crushed regularly in PvE. I have not died a single time in PvE with the build above, mainly because the aggro is primarily directed at my Clannfear.

Great for leveling but not for endgame. Especially on console with no pet targeting mechanic

Xilc · September 2015

Yes

Colosso-monstro wrote: »

CGPsaint wrote: »

I am by no means in any position to say that this is a "Learn To Play" situation, however you might want to rethink your build, and how you use it. I'm currently working on a level 17 Sorc/Pet build and use the following:

Bar 1 - Restoration Staff
X - Combat Prayer - (Allies also gain a damage bonus)

Y - Ward Ally - (Shields ally and self)

B - Thundering Presence - (Increased duration. Causes the skill to scale on weapon damage and stamina)

LB - Unstable Clannfear - (Summons a Clannfear with increased Health that heals you when it dies)

RB - Summon Twilight Matriarch - (Heals you when at low Health)

LB+RB - Energy Overload - (Light and heavy attacks restore Magicka)

*Will drop Thundering Presence and will add Empowered Ward - (Affected pets deal additional damage) once I hit Daedric Summoning Rank 42.

Bar 2 - Destruction Staff (Inferno)
X - Crystal Fragments - (Chance to make ability instant cast)

Y - Lightning Flood - (as increased radius)

B - Destructive Clench OR Force Pulse

LB - Unstable Clannfear - (Summons a Clannfear with increased Health that heals you when it dies)

RB - Summon Twilight Matriarch - (Heals you when at low Health)

LB+RB - Energy Overload - (Light and heavy attacks restore Magicka)

I use the 1st bar to maintain my pets, and the 2nd bar to throw in an AOE and additional DPS, while my Clannfear tanks, and my Twilight Matriarch does whatever it is that she does.

That being said, this build is not by any means going to give you a ton of DPS, but it will allow you to solo a large portion of the content if you use your build wisely. My first character is a level 30 Stamina DK Archer/DW and I was getting crushed regularly in PvE. I have not died a single time in PvE with the build above, mainly because the aggro is primarily directed at my Clannfear.

Great for leveling but not for endgame. Especially on console with no pet targeting mechanic

Yeah the Daedra have absolutely no use endgame. Maybe they'll sell us a fix via crownstore ? xD

CGPsaint · September 2015

Xilc wrote: »

Yeah the Daedra have absolutely no use endgame. Maybe they'll sell us a fix via crownstore ? xD

It will cost 3100 Crowns so that you have to purchase more Crowns than needed, AND it will only be available to ESO Plus members...

AshTal · September 2015

Yes

Like everyone playing a Sorc I know this tree is complete crap.

Yes the summons are fun at low level (they have major chase mobs and always vanishing issues) but they are fun.

However at end game this path is worthless.
They need to scale off the Sorc, maybe make it more than just max magic but defiantly make them useful. They need to be increased a lot to make them useful especially in PvP. I want to use my winged Twlight and clanfear in PvP but they are completely worthless. When ever I see a player in PvP with one of them I always think "Oh dear its a lv 10 - 40, they wont be much user", or "Great a lv 10 - 40 with crap skill slotted that's going to be a quick kill".

FriedEggSandwich · September 2015

Not sure about the whole tree, the atronach is great, as is curse, hardened ward and even bound armour has it's uses in pve. I just pretend the clanfear and twilight don't exist though. I once used the clanfear to tank for me while I levelled up, but soon discovered the atronach was much better at this.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · September 2015

Yes

Toggles need to be changed so that they stay on if they are at least on one bar. That would fix a lot.

Pets are just clunky though. They need more commands to be good. If they had a defend command where they would attack anyone who closed in melee range of you, they would be amazing in PvP.

Also, pets should scale off your highest resource so stamina sorcs can use them as well.

SmalltalkJava · September 2015

Yes

Just drop the toggles and then they'll be mobile DOTs

Avonna · September 2015

take away one summon pet , and add a weapon summon.

AshTal · September 2015

Yes

As people have said
Increase their power (scale off the sorc)
Stay if on at least one bar (Forcing us to have them on 2 bars is insane)
Give us a control bar above our skills for quick control / command
Increase the AI so we don't get dragged into fights

Xilc · September 2015

Yes

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Not sure about the whole tree, the atronach is great, as is curse, hardened ward and even bound armour has it's uses in pve. I just pretend the clanfear and twilight don't exist though. I once used the clanfear to tank for me while I levelled up, but soon discovered the atronach was much better at this.

The atronach is a joke. Whose idea was it that it was immobile and couldn't move? As I remember in the previous Elder Scrolls Games, and even in this freakin' game, Atronachs move and walk around! Do you SEE the NPC atro's around the world? THEY ARE WALKING. By chance, one time, I would accidentally summon it in the wrong place. Once I summoned it behind a pillar by some act of God, and it wouldn't attack the boss because of LOS. Like Jesus, that was the last time it was on my bar. No thank you.

CGPsaint · September 2015

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I once used the clanfear to tank for me while I levelled up, but soon discovered the atronach was much better at this.

I've had the Atronach slotted since purchasing that skill, and I can honestly say that through level 21, I have used it a single time. I summoned it and it literally stood next to the boss that I was attacking and did absolutely NOTHING! I hold a grudge, and that Atronach is still grounded.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Toggles need to be changed so that they stay on if they are at least on one bar. That would fix a lot.

Pets are just clunky though. They need more commands to be good. If they had a defend command where they would attack anyone who closed in melee range of you, they would be amazing in PvP.

Also, pets should scale off your highest resource so stamina sorcs can use them as well.

Yes, yes, and yes.

It's silly that in PvE, enemies will continue to increase in difficulty and yet the summons pretty much stay vanilla once you reach IV in that summon skill.

Xilc · September 2015

Yes

CGPsaint wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

I once used the clanfear to tank for me while I levelled up, but soon discovered the atronach was much better at this.

I've had the Atronach slotted since purchasing that skill, and I can honestly say that through level 21, I have used it a single time. I summoned it and it literally stood next to the boss that I was attacking and did absolutely NOTHING! I hold a grudge, and that Atronach is still grounded.

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Toggles need to be changed so that they stay on if they are at least on one bar. That would fix a lot.

Pets are just clunky though. They need more commands to be good. If they had a defend command where they would attack anyone who closed in melee range of you, they would be amazing in PvP.

Also, pets should scale off your highest resource so stamina sorcs can use them as well.

Yes, yes, and yes.

It's silly that in PvE, enemies will continue to increase in difficulty and yet the summons pretty much stay vanilla once you reach IV in that summon skill.

Clannfear tanks excellently at low levels. At VR1? Good luck finding any use in it. You do so much damage because YOU leveled up, but the Clannfear is still vanilla and puny.