Daily Gold Pledge - Imperial City Dungeon. Really?

Nifty2g · September 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Can non DLC players get the new shoulders from the chest?

No. They shouldn't. We can even go further and limit them to VR14 gear if they don't own any DLC.

If they can get shoulders from the chest this whole topic is a joke. Would you like zos to remove the shoulders and the dungeon from the dailies?

Hiero_Glyph · September 2015

nine9six wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

I'd understand where you were coming from if this were Elder Pledges Online and Pledges were the *only* thing to do.

If they enjoy Pledges they have 2 options. Buy the DLC and enjoy the new Pledge, or go and do *anything* else that's still in-game. That choice is entirely on the customer to determine.

Pledges are pretty much the only way to level the undaunted skill line and if this trend continues the DLC pledges may be occurring 2 or 3 days out of the week. So people who don't want the DLC can't do undaunted pledges for almost half a week. There's no need for it. We can have a third option.

They aren't losing the ability to gain Undaunted XP completely due to one Pledge.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Well, I want to do the new dungeons as part of pledges too.
So...tough luck. I paid for it, and so did the majority of players.

You want it your way? Support the game.

They bought the game. They did support it. Your argument is invalid.

Your logic is flawed.
You cannot support an MMO indefinitely on one-time game purchases.
You put in some small amount of support, but do not continue to support the game, so no, you are not currently supporting the game.

B2P doesn't mean that you get everything for a one-time purchase, nor does it mean the game will always be tailored to your desires. Those who continue to support the game will get precedence, and it only makes sense.

Actually, your logic is flawed as an MMO sustains itself by having a large, active population. The more players that are active, the higher the chance that the developer will make money from a percentage of these players and the more new or returning players the game attracts.

Your whole rant about not continuing to support the developer is naive and misguided as just playing the game helps them to attract new customers or earn money from existing ones, including the players who only purchased the base game.

Nope.

I wish this game was still Subscription Only, so the freeloaders would go back to playing...whatever the hell freeloaders play.

Who are these freeloaders you mention? Everyone playing ESO had to purchase the base game. Great argument though, if ESO was free-to-play.

Spottswoode · September 2015

cjthibs wrote: »

Other people have already argued why having separate pledge lists would not be helpful. I won't rehash that.

So have I. Fixing the group finder would fix most of them. Having group finder sort out people who own DLC and don't would be the best way.

wrote:

And I honestly don't want to limit people's gear based on what DLC they've paid for. You should still be able to buy the sets that come from the new dungeons/IC.

You can't buy or sell most of the sets with the IC anyway. I'm comfortable with them being able to purchase some of the gear at guild traders. If you're saying find, I disagree.

wrote:

And by the way, each of these words imply that there is no other option available. Which does not reflect reality.
You are able to play this game without the DLC, and by playing the game will not necessarily end up paying for the DLC unless you choose to. So no, you are not 'forced' to buy it.

When the DLC pledges start occurring two or three days in a row, some people will either be forced to buy the DLC so they can do pledges during the time they have available to play or they will have to do something else. Like not play this game, for example.

Nifty2g wrote: »

If they can get shoulders from the chest this whole topic is a joke. Would you like zos to remove the shoulders and the dungeon from the dailies?

No. They would just get Non-dlc shoulders. They wouldn't be allowed to get any new gear from the DLC. They would only be able to get vanilla shoulders and gear.

nine9six · September 2015

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

I'd understand where you were coming from if this were Elder Pledges Online and Pledges were the *only* thing to do.

If they enjoy Pledges they have 2 options. Buy the DLC and enjoy the new Pledge, or go and do *anything* else that's still in-game. That choice is entirely on the customer to determine.

Pledges are pretty much the only way to level the undaunted skill line and if this trend continues the DLC pledges may be occurring 2 or 3 days out of the week. So people who don't want the DLC can't do undaunted pledges for almost half a week. There's no need for it. We can have a third option.

They aren't losing the ability to gain Undaunted XP completely due to one Pledge.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Well, I want to do the new dungeons as part of pledges too.
So...tough luck. I paid for it, and so did the majority of players.

You want it your way? Support the game.

They bought the game. They did support it. Your argument is invalid.

Your logic is flawed.
You cannot support an MMO indefinitely on one-time game purchases.
You put in some small amount of support, but do not continue to support the game, so no, you are not currently supporting the game.

B2P doesn't mean that you get everything for a one-time purchase, nor does it mean the game will always be tailored to your desires. Those who continue to support the game will get precedence, and it only makes sense.

Actually, your logic is flawed as an MMO sustains itself by having a large, active population. The more players that are active, the higher the chance that the developer will make money from a percentage of these players and the more new or returning players the game attracts.

Your whole rant about not continuing to support the developer is naive and misguided as just playing the game helps them to attract new customers or earn money from existing ones, including the players who only purchased the base game.

Nope.

I wish this game was still Subscription Only, so the freeloaders would go back to playing...whatever the hell freeloaders play.

Who are these freeloaders you mention? Everyone playing ESO had to purchase the base game. Great argument though, if ESO was free-to-play.

You can't possibly be that daft...

Hiero_Glyph · September 2015

nine9six wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

I'd understand where you were coming from if this were Elder Pledges Online and Pledges were the *only* thing to do.

If they enjoy Pledges they have 2 options. Buy the DLC and enjoy the new Pledge, or go and do *anything* else that's still in-game. That choice is entirely on the customer to determine.

Pledges are pretty much the only way to level the undaunted skill line and if this trend continues the DLC pledges may be occurring 2 or 3 days out of the week. So people who don't want the DLC can't do undaunted pledges for almost half a week. There's no need for it. We can have a third option.

They aren't losing the ability to gain Undaunted XP completely due to one Pledge.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Well, I want to do the new dungeons as part of pledges too.
So...tough luck. I paid for it, and so did the majority of players.

You want it your way? Support the game.

They bought the game. They did support it. Your argument is invalid.

Your logic is flawed.
You cannot support an MMO indefinitely on one-time game purchases.
You put in some small amount of support, but do not continue to support the game, so no, you are not currently supporting the game.

B2P doesn't mean that you get everything for a one-time purchase, nor does it mean the game will always be tailored to your desires. Those who continue to support the game will get precedence, and it only makes sense.

Actually, your logic is flawed as an MMO sustains itself by having a large, active population. The more players that are active, the higher the chance that the developer will make money from a percentage of these players and the more new or returning players the game attracts.

Your whole rant about not continuing to support the developer is naive and misguided as just playing the game helps them to attract new customers or earn money from existing ones, including the players who only purchased the base game.

Nope.

I wish this game was still Subscription Only, so the freeloaders would go back to playing...whatever the hell freeloaders play.

Who are these freeloaders you mention? Everyone playing ESO had to purchase the base game. Great argument though, if ESO was free-to-play.

You can't possibly be that daft...

And yet based on the definition of freeloader, ESO has exactly zero. What was your point about players not supporting ZOS?

nine9six · September 2015

A one-time purchase doesn't equal continuing support when a company is putting out new material to generate revenue. While once-supporters (and that's what they are) are entitled to the content they purchased (and they still have their access, which is not debatable) they are not entitled to anything that prevents the game from progressing. (Which would be the case if the whiners got their way with this topic.)

Example) this whole *** thread.

Those that haven't purchased the DLC are the only ones griping. The ones that are griping I will throw into the freeloader category. You can call them what you want.

I still with this was a Subscription Only game.

Spottswoode · September 2015

nine9six wrote: »

Those that haven't purchased the DLC are the only ones griping. The ones that are griping I will throw into the freeloader category. You can call them what you want.

Actually I purchased the DLC, with crowns from my crowns allotted from my subscription and the crowns from being a subscriber pre-b2p, and I was a subscriber from PC release day up until about April.

nine9six · September 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

Those that haven't purchased the DLC are the only ones griping. The ones that are griping I will throw into the freeloader category. You can call them what you want.

Actually I purchased the DLC, with crowns from my crowns allotted from my subscription and the crowns from being a subscriber pre-b2p, and I was a subscriber from PC release day up until about April.

You aren't really griping about this for *you*. Instead, you're more of driving-home the point that people without the DLC shouldn't be excluded from the game.

To which I've been saying, they aren't being excluded from "the game" since there's a TON of stuff they *could* be doing, instead of 1 Pledge.

This touches on my "....they are not entitled to anything that prevents the game from progressing." Don't hold the rest of us back from enjoying new DLC content via the Pledge System just because everyone didn't buy it.

If ZOS said that people whos last name begins with the letter "A" couldn't buy the DLC, I'd agree with this whole thread. But everyone can buy it. So I disagree with this whole thread.

Spottswoode · September 2015

nine9six wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

Those that haven't purchased the DLC are the only ones griping. The ones that are griping I will throw into the freeloader category. You can call them what you want.

Actually I purchased the DLC, with crowns from my crowns allotted from my subscription and the crowns from being a subscriber pre-b2p, and I was a subscriber from PC release day up until about April.

You aren't really griping about this for *you*. Instead, you're more of driving-home the point that people without the DLC shouldn't be excluded from the game.

To which I've been saying, they aren't being excluded from "the game" since there's a TON of stuff they *could* be doing, instead of 1 Pledge.

This touches on my "....they are not entitled to anything that prevents the game from progressing." Don't hold the rest of us back from enjoying new DLC content via the Pledge System just because everyone didn't buy it.

If ZOS said that people whos last name begins with the letter "A" couldn't buy the DLC, I'd agree with this whole thread. But everyone can buy it. So I disagree with this whole thread.

And my counter point is that it's only one pledge RIGHT NOW. As more DLC comes out, it could be two or three pledges a week. Which could encompass all the play time some people have. So not for me, right now, but maybe in the future and also for people that have consuming full time jobs.

nine9six · September 2015

Again, not to be "an ass", but...I don't care.

That's the progression of the game I'm referring to. Eventually, yes, it's going to be a WHOLE BUNCH of places you'd need to have DLC to access. So, buy the DLC and enjoy it. Or don't. I don't care.

If you'd opt to not buy the access, there are ZERO grounds for any complaining.

The beauty of all of this is that we're voicing our own opinions. These are mine. Those are yours.

*EDIT*

I also have a VERY busy schedule and I'm probably in the lower 20% of "bad ass" / "I've done this, that, or the other thing" players. Doesn't change my stance.

Spottswoode · September 2015

nine9six wrote: »

If you'd opt to not buy the access, there are ZERO grounds for any complaining.

The beauty of all of this is that we're voicing our own opinions. These are mine. Those are yours.

Other than the fact that new players might not be able to play pledges for 3 days out of the week? Sure.
I guess we can agree to disagree.

cjthibs · September 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

If you'd opt to not buy the access, there are ZERO grounds for any complaining.

The beauty of all of this is that we're voicing our own opinions. These are mine. Those are yours.

Other than the fact that new players might not be able to play pledges for 3 days out of the week? Sure.
I guess we can agree to disagree.

Yes, but what is important is that this isn't a charity and those of us who paid for that DLC will be able to enjoy it.
Sorry if you are hypothetically offended.

nine9six · September 2015

It works out, regardless.

If they're new, they're (probably) going to be Leveling or checking out the PvP in Cyrodiil.

If they're Leveling, they have a number of Dungeons to run as it is, and occasionally, can Pledge to return Undaunted (as a little bonus, if it were). If they continue to level their toon, determine that they like the game, decide they're going to play it consistently, and would like to be able to Pledge to return Undaunted on even more Dungeons than they currently have access to, a Subscription or a DLC would sound like a great idea. Incentive.

If they're into PvP, and have whetted their appetite in Cyrodiil, they'll have incentive enough to purchase the DLC for that reason also.

Both are good for ZOS and the community.

However, if someone new doesn't reach the point of needing the DLC (for whatever reason), then it's a moot point either way.

Again, just how I see it.

Agree to Disagree, as you said.

Spottswoode · September 2015

cjthibs wrote: »

Yes, but what is important is that this isn't a charity and those of us who paid for that DLC will be able to enjoy it.
Sorry if you are hypothetically offended.

Where do I suggest that you shouldn't be able to play DLC content?

cjthibs · September 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Yes, but what is important is that this isn't a charity and those of us who paid for that DLC will be able to enjoy it.
Sorry if you are hypothetically offended.

Where do I suggest that you shouldn't be able to play DLC content?

Sorry, left out a bit there...

We will be able to enjoy the DLC being integrated into our game.

Spottswoode · September 2015

cjthibs wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Yes, but what is important is that this isn't a charity and those of us who paid for that DLC will be able to enjoy it.
Sorry if you are hypothetically offended.

Where do I suggest that you shouldn't be able to play DLC content?

Sorry, left out a bit there...

We will be able to enjoy the DLC being integrated into our game.

And where do I suggest that DLC NOT be integrated into the game for YOU?

cjthibs · September 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Yes, but what is important is that this isn't a charity and those of us who paid for that DLC will be able to enjoy it.
Sorry if you are hypothetically offended.

Where do I suggest that you shouldn't be able to play DLC content?

Sorry, left out a bit there...

We will be able to enjoy the DLC being integrated into our game.

And where do I suggest that DLC NOT be integrated into the game for YOU?

Integrating the DLC into pledges, bro. Didn't think I needed to spell that out, since I already have further up.

Hiero_Glyph · September 2015

nine9six wrote: »

A one-time purchase doesn't equal continuing support when a company is putting out new material to generate revenue. While once-supporters (and that's what they are) are entitled to the content they purchased (and they still have their access, which is not debatable) they are not entitled to anything that prevents the game from progressing. (Which would be the case if the whiners got their way with this topic.)

Example) this whole *** thread.

Those that haven't purchased the DLC are the only ones griping. The ones that are griping I will throw into the freeloader category. You can call them what you want.

I still with this was a Subscription Only game.

So the only money that matters is the newest money? Well what about players that just start the game and purchase ESO new? Is their money somehow worth less than someone that purchased IC? The point being that revenue comes from a lot of different sources, so maximizing those gains is important just as providing content to all players, not just the ones that purchased the newest DLC. Restricting daily quests doesn't promote new content, it just alienates those without it.

Your misuse of language aside, ESO is no longer subscription based because there were not enough players to support the model. Having a large, active population is what makes an MMO successful, not having a smaller, paying playerbase. Players that are active, even if they only make the one-time purchase, are good for the longevity of the game. Chances are that the longer a player actively plays ESO, the more likely they are to make an additional purchase. Besides, do you really think ESO went buy-to-play because it makes less money than using the subscription model? Don't be so ignorant to the facts.

Spottswoode · September 2015

cjthibs wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Yes, but what is important is that this isn't a charity and those of us who paid for that DLC will be able to enjoy it.
Sorry if you are hypothetically offended.

Where do I suggest that you shouldn't be able to play DLC content?

Sorry, left out a bit there...

We will be able to enjoy the DLC being integrated into our game.

And where do I suggest that DLC NOT be integrated into the game for YOU?

Integrating the DLC into pledges, bro. Didn't think I needed to spell that out, since I already have further up.

My point was, FOR YOU. I'm of the belief that we can have our cake and eat it to, in this case. Again, in my opinion, you don't stand to lose anything and letting people play pledges every day of the week doesn't hurt you either. They'll still need to buy high level items, need gear crafted, buy the better DLC items, etc. etc. You, in fact, still end up ahead.

nine9six wrote: »

If they're into PvP, and have whetted their appetite in Cyrodiil, they'll have incentive enough to purchase the DLC for that reason also.

Most of the new v16 gear is BOA and is difficult to acquire outside of v15+ pledges and the IC. If that trend keeps up, they'll have to buy DLC to get better gear regardless. PVP is really a different beast when it comes to this topic. And I'm fine with them lagging behind in PVP because they don't have DLC gear.

nine9six · September 2015

We can put my "misuse of language" and your "lack of comprehension" in a room and see what comes of it.

phaseadept · September 2015

Boy, this takes me back to the first strike rotations on Destiny for the new DLC and the forum rage that followed.

Those guys couldn't play Will of Crota nightfall for a week.

Spottswoode · September 2015

nine9six wrote: »

We can put my "misuse of language" and your "lack of comprehension" in a room and see what comes of it.

Eh..hadn't really touched on PVP. Was giving my thoughts, not summarizing yours.

OH..nvm. Didn't read the previous post.

Hiero_Glyph · September 2015

nine9six wrote: »

We can put my "misuse of language" and your "lack of comprehension" in a room and see what comes of it.

I understand enough to know that you have no support for your argument so you think insults and language will bully me into submission.

TheBull · September 2015

Soooo you didn't pay for the DLC, but you still feel you should be able to do the DLC dungeons?

Come on guys. Really?

nine9six · September 2015

All of my points are up there ^^^

I'm not spending the time to reiterate for you.

Spottswoode · September 2015

TheBull wrote: »

Soooo you didn't pay for the DLC, but you still feel you should be able to do the DLC dungeons?

Come on guys. Really?

Uhh. No. I feel we should be able to do the standard dungeons on the DLC dungeon days instead.

nine9six · September 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Soooo you didn't pay for the DLC, but you still feel you should be able to do the DLC dungeons?

Come on guys. Really?

Uhh. No. I feel we should be able to do the standard dungeons on the DLC dungeon days instead.

And you can.

Spottswoode · September 2015

nine9six wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Soooo you didn't pay for the DLC, but you still feel you should be able to do the DLC dungeons?

Come on guys. Really?

Uhh. No. I feel we should be able to do the standard dungeons on the DLC dungeon days instead.

And you can.

nine9six · September 2015

lol just messing with you.

wizardpsx · September 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

TheBull wrote: »

Soooo you didn't pay for the DLC, but you still feel you should be able to do the DLC dungeons?

Come on guys. Really?

Uhh. No. I feel we should be able to do the standard dungeons on the DLC dungeon days instead.

This is correct. The perfect example is destiny.

I never bought any DLC but had the base game. I was told that each week there will be a nightfall mission (raid) and each day there would be a heroic strike (mini-raid) that i can play with my character.

Well their maps for the daily and weekly went on rotation. the first 2 DLC added 2 raids to the rotation which means that for 14 days i COULD NOT play what i normally could play before DLC. I would get to play 2-3 times out of 7 days a week the daily mini raids.

No one is asking the NON-DLC player to be able to enjoy DLC/expansion content. But game features should not be privileged to people who shell money out every 3 months.

Change this example from pledges to PVP cyrodiil: What if, on every sunday there was an event (some world boss spawns) in cyrodiil with amazing loot but anyone who doesnt have the DLC can't have access to it. that means on sundays non-DLC can not partipate in PVP. would you tell them to just "go do something else"?

What Zenimax is doing is what destiny is doing and is basically a "Business Decision" they are locking content around new cash flow. I abhore the business practice of DLC in non-mmo games. but that maybe because im an older gamer that remembers how multiplayer games were before DLC existed. it was all about the game play, not the cosmetics/cash grab.