Daily Gold Pledge - Imperial City Dungeon. Really?

cjthibs · September 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Nobody is preventing you from doing anything.
You can still go play another dungeon and pretend it was the pledge.

Should be just as much fun, you'll just miss out on the key. ...if you're only doing it for the key and not having fun, maybe you should find something else to do?

You can't do the pledge. That is preventing you from doing something. You miss out on the pledge xp and undaunted xp from it.

No, it's preventing you from receiving something.
Not from doing something.

You cannot do that dungeon because you didn't pay for it, you are preventing that.

As to the rewards, those are something received not an activity. You cannot get those because you cannot earn them.
Tough luck, but it's not ZOS's fault.

starlizard70ub17_ESO · September 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Nobody is preventing you from doing anything.
You can still go play another dungeon and pretend it was the pledge.

Should be just as much fun, you'll just miss out on the key. ...if you're only doing it for the key and not having fun, maybe you should find something else to do?

You can't do the pledge. That is preventing you from doing something. You miss out on the pledge xp and undaunted xp from it.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

Okay....do you have to leave the house because of the party in that room? Or does that room prevent you from eating dinner in your house? The house is still as much yours as it is the other persons. He can do his stuff in his room without preventing you from doing the same thing.

You can still do whatever you want in your part of the house. BUT you can't force *every* party to take place in your side just because you cannot attend the other side. And you can't force the organization of TWO separate parties. The days the party is on the other side, you don't attend it, simple as that.

The way it is now, no you can't.
If that room in the house is having a party, you can't have one. The other side CAN force you to either do what they want or force you to do something else.
And if they keep adding more rooms with more people, it might end up being a party 3 days out of the week.

Also, it is PERFECTLY reasonable to organize two parties at the same event.

The bottom line is this, either come up with the money to pay for the extra content, or you don't get to play the extra content the rest of us are paying for. It really is that simple. I really have no sympathy for people who whine about feeling entitled to get something free that the rest of us are paying for.

nine9six · September 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Why would they alter the experience to cater to people who don't support them?
They -should- let the game evolve to include the DLC, and reward those who are feeding them and their families.

Why should they cater to people who bought the game but don't want DLC they're not going to play? Screw those guys.

If you weren't going to play the DLC you wouldn't be posting in here about wanting to play the DLC. lol

MisterBigglesworth · September 2015

Meanwhile we still don't have Vet modes for Arx Corinium, Direfrost Keep, Blessed Crucible, Tempest Island, Selene's Web, Volenfell, Blackheart Haven, and Vaults of Madness...

Xjcon · September 2015

25$ is alot of money? For new content to wich we haven't had since craglorn? #goingbrokeplayingvideosgames. I'm not a hard core pvp player but I'm loving the Imperial City.

Spottswoode · September 2015

cjthibs wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Nobody is preventing you from doing anything.
You can still go play another dungeon and pretend it was the pledge.

Should be just as much fun, you'll just miss out on the key. ...if you're only doing it for the key and not having fun, maybe you should find something else to do?

You can't do the pledge. That is preventing you from doing something. You miss out on the pledge xp and undaunted xp from it.

No, it's preventing you from receiving something.
Not from doing something.

You cannot do that dungeon because you didn't pay for it, you are preventing that.

As to the rewards, those are something received not an activity. You cannot get those because you cannot earn them.
Tough luck, but it's not ZOS's fault.

Then they don't get to play THAT dungeon and they can't do their daily pledge that day. That's something. That's time they don't get to put to the use they want to. They can play other dungeons in a non-dlc rotation. There's no good reason not to let people do just the regular undaunted pledges.

nine9six wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Why would they alter the experience to cater to people who don't support them?
They -should- let the game evolve to include the DLC, and reward those who are feeding them and their families.

Why should they cater to people who bought the game but don't want DLC they're not going to play? Screw those guys.

If you weren't going to play the DLC you wouldn't be posting in here about wanting to play the DLC. lol

I'm not. Try reading my other posts. LOL. Or better yet, read this.

starlizard70ub17_ESO wrote: »

The bottom line is this, either come up with the money to pay for the extra content, or you don't get to play the extra content the rest of us are paying for. It really is that simple. I really have no sympathy for people who whine about feeling entitled to get something free that the rest of us are paying for.

That's not what I'm arguing. They SHOULD NOT be able to play DLC dungeons. But they shouldn't be forced out of daily pledges just because they don't have DLC.
These people have paid for the game. This isn't freeloading.

cjthibs · September 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Nobody is preventing you from doing anything.
You can still go play another dungeon and pretend it was the pledge.

Should be just as much fun, you'll just miss out on the key. ...if you're only doing it for the key and not having fun, maybe you should find something else to do?

You can't do the pledge. That is preventing you from doing something. You miss out on the pledge xp and undaunted xp from it.

No, it's preventing you from receiving something.
Not from doing something.

You cannot do that dungeon because you didn't pay for it, you are preventing that.

As to the rewards, those are something received not an activity. You cannot get those because you cannot earn them.
Tough luck, but it's not ZOS's fault.

Then they don't get to play THAT dungeon and they can't do their daily pledge that day. That's something. That's time they don't get to put to the use they want to. They can play other dungeons in a non-dlc rotation. There's no good reason not to let people do just the regular undaunted pledges.

Well, I want to do the new dungeons as part of pledges too.
So...tough luck. I paid for it, and so did the majority of players.

You want it your way? Support the game.

Spottswoode · September 2015

cjthibs wrote: »

Well, I want to do the new dungeons as part of pledges too.
So...tough luck. I paid for it, and so did the majority of players.

You want it your way? Support the game.

They bought the game. They did support it. Your argument is invalid.

Dagoth_Rac · September 2015

They cannot limit the Undaunted pledges to just the base game dungeons. MMOs are designed to be long term commitments that build player loyalty and keep you logging on for years. Having the same handful of dungeons for ever and ever as the only Undaunted pledge options would get old. And they cannot give an alternate pledge to non-DLC owners because that actually incentivizes people to *not* buy the DLC because you can get your gold key much easier from, say, the moderately difficult Vet Crypt of Hearts or Vet Banished Cells, than the brutally difficult Vet White Gold Tower or Vet Imperial Prison. People will drop their subscriptions on purpose so they can get more gold keys! Or hold off on buying new DLC so they can get easier gold keys from old dungeons and thus more chances at new monster shoulders.

nine9six · September 2015

I'm not. Try reading my other posts. LOL. Or better yet, read this.

Either you are, or you just like posting. That's what I'm getting from every post of yours on here.

Which is it?

cjthibs · September 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Well, I want to do the new dungeons as part of pledges too.
So...tough luck. I paid for it, and so did the majority of players.

You want it your way? Support the game.

They bought the game. They did support it. Your argument is invalid.

Your logic is flawed.
You cannot support an MMO indefinitely on one-time game purchases.
You put in some small amount of support, but do not continue to support the game, so no, you are not currently supporting the game.

B2P doesn't mean that you get everything for a one-time purchase, nor does it mean the game will always be tailored to your desires. Those who continue to support the game will get precedence, and it only makes sense.

Spottswoode · September 2015

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

They cannot limit the Undaunted pledges to just the base game dungeons. MMOs are designed to be long term commitments that build player loyalty and keep you logging on for years. Having the same handful of dungeons for ever and ever as the only Undaunted pledge options would get old. And they cannot give an alternate pledge to non-DLC owners because that actually incentivizes people to *not* buy the DLC because you can get your gold key much easier from, say, the moderately difficult Vet Crypt of Hearts or Vet Banished Cells, than the brutally difficult Vet White Gold Tower or Vet Imperial Prison. People will drop their subscriptions on purpose so they can get more gold keys! Or hold off on buying new DLC so they can get easier gold keys from old dungeons and thus more chances at new monster shoulders.

I've already addressed this. They don't get top level equipment or DLC gear. They have vanilla gear. They can't sell the gear or trade it. There' no damage. GOLD KEYS DOES NOT BETTER GEAR MAKE if you can't actually get the good gear.

Not to mention, we can already do the normal pledges on v16, so we can limit them to V14 and force them to buy DLC to get high level gear. But we can still allow them to do daily pledges, if they want.

nine9six · September 2015

cjthibs wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Well, I want to do the new dungeons as part of pledges too.
So...tough luck. I paid for it, and so did the majority of players.

You want it your way? Support the game.

They bought the game. They did support it. Your argument is invalid.

Your logic is flawed.
You cannot support an MMO indefinitely on one-time game purchases.
You put in some small amount of support, but do not continue to support the game, so no, you are not currently supporting the game.

B2P doesn't mean that you get everything for a one-time purchase, nor does it mean the game will always be tailored to your desires. Those who continue to support the game will get precedence, and it only makes sense.

DING DING DING!!!!

Spottswoode · September 2015

cjthibs wrote: »

B2P doesn't mean that you get everything for a one-time purchase, nor does it mean the game will always be tailored to your desires. Those who continue to support the game will get precedence, and it only makes sense.

Which isn't the argument. There isn't ANY tailoring beyond allowing people who have the base game to just play the base game, or what they paid for. Players who buy the DLC will have better equipment. They get precedence and they will certainly dominate in PVP and PVE. They get a better experience.
But that's not sufficient reason to FORCE them to upgrade to do daily quests. If they want to stay in the kiddie pool, let them. Coexistence is a possibility. And they will probably still buy crown store items.

Frenkthevile · September 2015

I have the DLC but it's useless because the vet IP is barely impossible if you do not have 2000+ CP or full Vr16 gold equip...that obviously drop in that same dungeon.
3° boss is a joke, too many mechanics and too much of a DPS race for one boss.

nine9six · September 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

B2P doesn't mean that you get everything for a one-time purchase, nor does it mean the game will always be tailored to your desires. Those who continue to support the game will get precedence, and it only makes sense.

Which isn't the argument. There isn't ANY tailoring beyond allowing people who have the base game to just play the base game, or what they paid for. Players who buy the DLC will have better equipment. They get precedence and they will certainly dominate in PVP and PVE. They get a better experience.
But that's not sufficient reason to FORCE them to upgrade to do daily quests. If they want to stay in the kiddie pool, let them.

Who's forcing anyone to do anything? What are you on about?

cjthibs · September 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

B2P doesn't mean that you get everything for a one-time purchase, nor does it mean the game will always be tailored to your desires. Those who continue to support the game will get precedence, and it only makes sense.

Which isn't the argument. There isn't ANY tailoring beyond allowing people who have the base game to just play the base game, or what they paid for. Players who buy the DLC will have better equipment. They get precedence and they will certainly dominate in PVP and PVE. They get a better experience.
But that's not sufficient reason to FORCE them to upgrade to do daily quests. If they want to stay in the kiddie pool, let them.

I don't think you understand what the word 'force' means.
You are being given an option to incorporate the new DLC into your game. However, if you choose not to, the rest of the game will not simply stand still and ignore that the new DLC exists. It will change the game over time, in this example, by incorporating new dungeons into the Undaunted Pledges. This is natural, and if they did not do so it would detract from the experience of those of us who are wanting to enjoy this new content.

It is being tailored to subscribers/DLC purchasers by changing this way. The new DLC will be available to us during our normal pledges, whereas it will not for owners of the base game only. If I am after keys and paid for the DLC, why should I have to run old dungeons when there are perfectly good new dungeons that I've paid for available?

Sorry, but the world doesn't revolve around your one viewpoint.

Please continue to whine about being left behind though, it is entertaining.

Spottswoode · September 2015

cjthibs wrote: »

It is being tailored to subscribers/DLC purchasers by changing this way. The new DLC will be available to us during our normal pledges, whereas it will not for owners of the base game only. If I am after keys and paid for the DLC, why should I have to run old dungeons when there are perfectly good new dungeons that I've paid for available?

You don't. You're misunderstanding my viewpoint entirely. The owners of the DLC will use the DLC pledge list. Those who don't have it won't. You don't have to run the old dungeons if you have the DLC but those who don't will. As it stands, they are forced to do something else entirely and it is needless.
Under my cumulative suggestion, thus far, they would have lower grade equipment, wouldn't have access to the DLC gear, but would still be able to play the game daily in pretty much whatever way they want.
btw;
FORCE- to compel, constrain, or oblige (oneself or someone) to do something.

Please understand, not everyone is going to buy every DLC. Locking people out of a daily activity because they don't want to buy a DLC, (the IC, for example) is not necessary. We're going to have a lot of DLC come out within the next year.

nine9six · September 2015

I'd understand where you were coming from if this were Elder Pledges Online and Pledges were the *only* thing to do.

If they enjoy Pledges they have 2 options: Buy the DLC and enjoy the new Pledge, or go and do *anything* else that's still in-game.

That choice is entirely on the customer to determine.

Spottswoode · September 2015

nine9six wrote: »

I'd understand where you were coming from if this were Elder Pledges Online and Pledges were the *only* thing to do.

If they enjoy Pledges they have 2 options. Buy the DLC and enjoy the new Pledge, or go and do *anything* else that's still in-game. That choice is entirely on the customer to determine.

Pledges are pretty much the only way to level the undaunted skill line and if this trend continues the DLC pledges may be occurring 2 or 3 days out of the week. So people who don't want the DLC can't do undaunted pledges for almost half a week. There's no need for it. We can have a third option.

Hiero_Glyph · September 2015

cjthibs wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Well, I want to do the new dungeons as part of pledges too.
So...tough luck. I paid for it, and so did the majority of players.

You want it your way? Support the game.

They bought the game. They did support it. Your argument is invalid.

Your logic is flawed.
You cannot support an MMO indefinitely on one-time game purchases.
You put in some small amount of support, but do not continue to support the game, so no, you are not currently supporting the game.

B2P doesn't mean that you get everything for a one-time purchase, nor does it mean the game will always be tailored to your desires. Those who continue to support the game will get precedence, and it only makes sense.

Actually, your logic is flawed as an MMO sustains itself by having a large, active population. The more players that are active, the higher the chance that the developer will make money from a percentage of these players and the more new or returning players the game attracts.

Your whole rant about not continuing to support the developer is naive and misguided as just playing the game helps them to attract new customers or earn money from existing ones, including the players who only purchased the base game.

timidobserver · September 2015

ZOS, just add an imperial city dungeon weekly for completing both ic dungeons in a week on hm for gold and regular for silver. Then remove those from the general daily.

Nifty2g · September 2015

I just dont understand anyone who thinks they have the right to tell ZOS to remove these dailies from the list because they're not supporting or show no interest to do so furthermore, dailies are not something required, it's optional and the people who purchased the DLC want to do these dungeons in the dailies because they actually reward 2 gold keys

Can non DLC players get the new shoulders from the chest?

Spottswoode · September 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

Can non DLC players get the new shoulders from the chest?

No. They shouldn't. We can even go further and limit them to VR14 gear if they don't own any DLC.

Merlin13KAGL · September 2015

zornyan wrote: »

The sub isn't just dlc costs though, you get free crowns, you get exp, gold, horse training and trait research bonuses.

With the crowns you've got you can buy more exp scrolls, motifs or just use them to 'keep' the dlc.

That's fairly good imo.

All I'm saying is the sub is a very very small amount of money for any adult, hell even any child that does the odd chore once every few weeks.

For that money you've got a guaranteed 4 dlcs within the next 9 months, bonuses to key in-game elements.

And at the end of those 9 months? You can just use your crowns to keep whatever dlc you chose. Or just spend them on costumes.

We're in agreement. The straight purchase cost is even less than the sub. The $4/month x 6 months indicated the overall cost for the DLC was not unreasonable. Or, sub for 6 months and have enough crowns to purchase DLC for a year + (still $8/month that way) + still quite reasonable.

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Nobody is preventing you from doing anything.
You can still go play another dungeon and pretend it was the pledge.

Should be just as much fun, you'll just miss out on the key. ...if you're only doing it for the key and not having fun, maybe you should find something else to do?

You can't do the pledge. That is preventing you from doing something. You miss out on the pledge xp and undaunted xp from it.

You are also correct.

You are not able to use that which you did not pay for. You are not excluded from gameplay on DLC pledge day.

That would be an issue worthy of being upset.

If you wish the reward or the option to do the content, buy or lease the content. You're not prevented from doing anything else. (And there is more than enough content to level Undaunted to 10 twice over without doing either new dungeon, so that is no excuse either.)

I'm going to now go and not drive the porsche I have not purchased not to the house I don't own.

See what I didn't do there?

(I'm also going to not eat the not dinner my not spouse didn't make.)

You (don't) get what you (don't) pay for.

Pretty basic stuff.

timidobserver · September 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

I just dont understand anyone who thinks they have the right to tell ZOS to remove these dailies from the list because they're not supporting or show no interest to do so furthermore, dailies are not something required, it's optional and the people who purchased the DLC want to do these dungeons in the dailies because they actually reward 2 gold keys
Can non DLC players get the new shoulders from the chest?

You may be right, but this is not a big deal worth fighting. Everybody would be happy if the undaunted opened a mini-enclave in the Imperial City with IC only dailies or weeklies.

Hiero_Glyph · September 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

The sub isn't just dlc costs though, you get free crowns, you get exp, gold, horse training and trait research bonuses.

With the crowns you've got you can buy more exp scrolls, motifs or just use them to 'keep' the dlc.

That's fairly good imo.

All I'm saying is the sub is a very very small amount of money for any adult, hell even any child that does the odd chore once every few weeks.

For that money you've got a guaranteed 4 dlcs within the next 9 months, bonuses to key in-game elements.

And at the end of those 9 months? You can just use your crowns to keep whatever dlc you chose. Or just spend them on costumes.

We're in agreement. The straight purchase cost is even less than the sub. The $4/month x 6 months indicated the overall cost for the DLC was not unreasonable. Or, sub for 6 months and have enough crowns to purchase DLC for a year + (still $8/month that way) + still quite reasonable.

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Nobody is preventing you from doing anything.
You can still go play another dungeon and pretend it was the pledge.

Should be just as much fun, you'll just miss out on the key. ...if you're only doing it for the key and not having fun, maybe you should find something else to do?

You can't do the pledge. That is preventing you from doing something. You miss out on the pledge xp and undaunted xp from it.

You are also correct.

You are not able to use that which you did not pay for. You are not excluded from gameplay on DLC pledge day.

That would be an issue worthy of being upset.

If you wish the reward or the option to do the content, buy or lease the content. You're not prevented from doing anything else. (And there is more than enough content to level Undaunted to 10 twice over without doing either new dungeon, so that is no excuse either.)

I'm going to now go and not drive the porsche I have not purchased not to the house I don't own.

See what I didn't do there?

(I'm also going to not eat the not dinner my not spouse didn't make.)

You (don't) get what you (don't) pay for.

Pretty basic stuff.

Except you already purchased the Porsche and when a new satellite antenna is made available for it, you don't suddenly lose access to your navigation system one day a week just because you didn't purchase the upgrade.

nine9six · September 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

nine9six wrote: »

I'd understand where you were coming from if this were Elder Pledges Online and Pledges were the *only* thing to do.

If they enjoy Pledges they have 2 options. Buy the DLC and enjoy the new Pledge, or go and do *anything* else that's still in-game. That choice is entirely on the customer to determine.

Pledges are pretty much the only way to level the undaunted skill line and if this trend continues the DLC pledges may be occurring 2 or 3 days out of the week. So people who don't want the DLC can't do undaunted pledges for almost half a week. There's no need for it. We can have a third option.

They aren't losing the ability to gain Undaunted XP completely due to one Pledge.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

Well, I want to do the new dungeons as part of pledges too.
So...tough luck. I paid for it, and so did the majority of players.

You want it your way? Support the game.

They bought the game. They did support it. Your argument is invalid.

Your logic is flawed.
You cannot support an MMO indefinitely on one-time game purchases.
You put in some small amount of support, but do not continue to support the game, so no, you are not currently supporting the game.

B2P doesn't mean that you get everything for a one-time purchase, nor does it mean the game will always be tailored to your desires. Those who continue to support the game will get precedence, and it only makes sense.

Actually, your logic is flawed as an MMO sustains itself by having a large, active population. The more players that are active, the higher the chance that the developer will make money from a percentage of these players and the more new or returning players the game attracts.

Your whole rant about not continuing to support the developer is naive and misguided as just playing the game helps them to attract new customers or earn money from existing ones, including the players who only purchased the base game.

Nope.

I wish this game was still Subscription Only, so the freeloaders would go back to playing...whatever the hell freeloaders play.

Spottswoode · September 2015

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

You are also correct.

You are not able to use that which you did not pay for. You are not excluded from gameplay on DLC pledge day.

That would be an issue worthy of being upset.

If you wish the reward or the option to do the content, buy or lease the content. You're not prevented from doing anything else. (And there is more than enough content to level Undaunted to 10 twice over without doing either new dungeon, so that is no excuse either.)

You (don't) get what you (don't) pay for.

Pretty basic stuff.

Time is of the highest order here. And if there are several DLC pledge days that you don't own, you actually miss out on several days worth of pledges. You are can't do pledges, you aren't getting what's in the game.
There are numerous achievements to level the undaunted skill line and they are all considerably slower than undaunted pledges. They also don't give any gear.
You are excluded from doing pledges on DLC pledge day. When there's two or three of them in a row, it gets to be quite cumbersome. Especially if you only have a few days to play a week.

nine9six wrote: »

Nope.

I wish this game was still Subscription Only, so the freeloaders would go back to playing...whatever the hell freeloaders play.

We lost that fight.

cjthibs · September 2015

Spottswoode wrote: »

cjthibs wrote: »

It is being tailored to subscribers/DLC purchasers by changing this way. The new DLC will be available to us during our normal pledges, whereas it will not for owners of the base game only. If I am after keys and paid for the DLC, why should I have to run old dungeons when there are perfectly good new dungeons that I've paid for available?

You don't. You're misunderstanding my viewpoint entirely. The owners of the DLC will use the DLC pledge list. Those who don't have it won't. You don't have to run the old dungeons if you have the DLC but those who don't will. As it stands, they are forced to do something else entirely and it is needless.
Under my cumulative suggestion, thus far, they would have lower grade equipment, wouldn't have access to the DLC gear, but would still be able to play the game daily in pretty much whatever way they want.
btw;
FORCE- to compel, constrain, or oblige (oneself or someone) to do something.

Please understand, not everyone is going to buy every DLC. Locking people out of a daily activity because they don't want to buy a DLC, (the IC, for example) is not necessary. We're going to have a lot of DLC come out within the next year.

Other people have already argued why having separate pledge lists would not be helpful. I won't rehash that.

And I honestly don't want to limit people's gear based on what DLC they've paid for. You should still be able to buy the sets that come from the new dungeons/IC.

And by the way, each of these words imply that there is no other option available. Which does not reflect reality.
You are able to play this game without the DLC, and by playing the game will not necessarily end up paying for the DLC unless you choose to. So no, you are not 'forced' to buy it.