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Sorc - Destro Fire vs. Destro Shock

  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
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    Xeven wrote: »
    Xeven wrote: »
    You are completely lost, so this will be my last response to you.

    1) I provide valid reasons why HAs are suboptimal for burst, while you try to explain what burst is, like youre still trying to wrap your brain around the concept. We know what burst is. HAs are a suboptimal choice, because thats what it is. A choice.

    Syphers example was, wait for a frag proc, curse, HA, frag. That is fing terrible.

    My example was Detonation, Curse, Fury, Frag. By the time you cast fury, you are almost guaranteed a frag proc. You dont have to wait for it. Detonation takes just as long as a HA. It does more damage. It's AOE. It procs Frags. It goes through dodge roll. Its timed perfectly with a curse combo.

    You don't have an argument.

    2) I kill Sypher all the time, lol.


    So detonation, curse, fury, frag does more damage than detonation, curse, fury, frag and fire staff heavy attack?

    And Im the one who's lost? Come on, its getting ridiculous now. You have to wait 8 seconds for detonation, you can weave attacks in between but just before curse and deto go of you should charge a heavy/medium attack, not fully charged ofc only to time it before the curse explosion and follow up with cfrags.

    This dude is so lost. Its 4 seconds. Its like its made for a curse combo.

    http://esoacademy.com/skills/inevitable-detonation/

    You must be on the forums more than on the actual game, it has been changed this update and it has been like this for 3 weeks on the pts.

    Prox detonation is instant cast with a 8 second delay, damage also scales up if you hit more targets.

    Now who was lost again?

    Edit: inevitable detonation still has a 1.8 second cast time which makes it easy to interrupt
    Edited by Septimus_Magna on September 1, 2015 10:04PM
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  • ToRelax
    ToRelax
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    Some good Sorcs use lightning, some use fire. Both have their advantages, why can't people just accept that?
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  • Sypher
    Sypher
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    Xeven wrote: »
    2) I kill Sypher all the time, lol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVO4ImBxm4M
    Xeven wrote: »
    Xeven wrote: »
    Xeven wrote: »
    What are you talking about? You can also use that time for detonation instead, which actually procs frags, does more damage, is aoe, goes through dodge roll etc etc etc.

    Burst is NOT an argument. There are much better things available.

    detonation curse fury frags soul assault

    detonation curse fury frags meteor

    etc
    etc
    etc

    That is not an argument that favors heavy attacks. PERIOD. I have an "elitist" attitude because sheeple cant think for themselves.


    This lesson on how to Sorc has been once again brought to you by uncle Xeven.

    Oh please, lets all stop discussing because you think you're right and everybody else is wrong..

    I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.

    Seriously though, If I am wrong, I will admit it. Heavy attacks are not for Sorc PvP, mkay? At least not in this patch.

    Go watch the video of Sypher where he explains why he uses fire staffs

    You mean they guy who gave up free rent and a college education to stream ESO full time, but can no longer pay his rent? Lol. Sounds like a pretty smart guy. You should totally take advice from that guy! Better yet, send him some money, and dont forget to like and subscribe!

    You cant even articulate why something is better or worse... Sheeple.

    I PREFER fire over lightening, and gave my opinion as to why it helps your burst over lightening. Lightening has its benefits and is a perfectly viable choice as well.

    Also, don't worry about my rent. Like you said, I'm a smart guy and I know what i'm doing ;)
    Edited by Sypher on September 2, 2015 1:32AM
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  • Mojmir
    Mojmir
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    i throw pies and soft cheese
  • FriedEggSandwich
    FriedEggSandwich
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    ToRelax wrote: »
    Some good Sorcs use lightning, some use fire. Both have their advantages, why can't people just accept that?

    I think people can. The troll is just trying to save face, but achieving the opposite.
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  • Johngo0036
    Johngo0036
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    I was always told that opening with a heavy attack make your followup attacks do more damage.
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  • olsborg
    olsborg
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    Personally I use lightning.
    1. For the disintegration chance on weaving light atks
    2. Heavy attack is undodgeable, unblockable (the dot in between) and unreflectable

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  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Just try both, some like one some like the other.

    Does a lightning heavy attack do more dmg than me just spamming crushing shock at a dk? xD
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  • k2blader
    k2blader
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    Mojmir wrote: »
    i throw pies and soft cheese

    Requesting cherry and a nice Beenleigh Blue in advance. tyvm
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  • Corrupted_Soul
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    Fire HA are more for DK Burst than sorc.

    Oemctl2.png
    Edited by Corrupted_Soul on September 3, 2015 5:50AM
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  • ishilb14_ESO
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    Fire medium attack takes less than a fraction of a second longer than a light attack and improves your chances of getting a frag proc if you are weaving it, just need to practice it a bit to get the hang of it. Medium attacking is especially more important now because fights are going to take longer and you don't want to spam your abilities and burn through all your magicka in the first 15 of a fight. Don't need to worry about dodge rolling too much now so fire staff is still your best bet, and it's really nice against the numerous vampire players sneaking around in IC.

    And OP, don't let condescending forum warriors try to push you around, in the end, all they are really good at is pushing buttons on a keyboard and mouse.
    Edited by ishilb14_ESO on September 3, 2015 7:04AM
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  • rfennell_ESO
    rfennell_ESO
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    Lightning staff has always done more damage than fire. Likely because the stormcalling passives affect the lightning staves damage.

    But a channel versus a medium weave heavy attack is not always an advantage.

    A fully charged heavy attack with fire from stealth is also an advantage (even though it doesn't do surprise damage like stamina based weapons do).

    Being able to channel through walls, dodge rolls etc is a decent feature of lightning staves though.

    Fire staves ability to hit vamps harder is also an advantage.

    Lightning channel not being able to be reflected is yet another advantage for lightning staves.

    Overall with the change to lightning staves channel's ability to crit (it used to not crit, except for the lightning ball surge at the end of the channel) and the decreased fire damage versus vamps and the increased damage with lightning that sorcs get it might be about even now.

    Lastly, you can weave with a lightning staff. Light attack weave works fine, as long as there is no lag to force the channeling.

    People really need to test the damage to be sure, but it's not going to be a big difference either way.
  • Pirhana7_ESO
    Pirhana7_ESO
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    Personally i like the new Frost staffs with their charged Damage shields and Chill procs for control.
  • God_flakes
    God_flakes
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    Sypher is that you in that video?!?
  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    Hmm i'm trying the light staff and i feel i weave better and do more dmg with a fire.
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • Tonturri
    Tonturri
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    Hell if you're on the NA server poke me, I'll craft what you're missing so you can figure out which one you like better :D
  • raasdal
    raasdal
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    wow, i really hit something here it seems.

    Thanks alot for all the feedback.

    I can see that i will simply have to try it out, and see how it feels. But since i am a Dunmer Sorc, fire is usually a good goto. And i have my backbar set up semi offensively with restro, so i can use it against DKs. With restro channeling, curse and streak. So feel like having 2xchannel is a bit constricting.

    For me the Disintegration chance is the key. Can anyone confirm what the health threshold is? Tooltip just says low health targets.

    can also see someone is referencing use of Crushing Shock on DK. i thought that also got reflected but was just missing the animation? or am i missing a good counter to DK by not using that?

    I also see some talk of weaving / HA improving chance of cfrag proc. I thought ONLY an ability will proc it. so no matter how much light or heavy attack you manage to weave in, it will not proc more? right?
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  • leepalmer95
    leepalmer95
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    raasdal wrote: »
    wow, i really hit something here it seems.

    Thanks alot for all the feedback.

    I can see that i will simply have to try it out, and see how it feels. But since i am a Dunmer Sorc, fire is usually a good goto. And i have my backbar set up semi offensively with restro, so i can use it against DKs. With restro channeling, curse and streak. So feel like having 2xchannel is a bit constricting.

    For me the Disintegration chance is the key. Can anyone confirm what the health threshold is? Tooltip just says low health targets.

    can also see someone is referencing use of Crushing Shock on DK. i thought that also got reflected but was just missing the animation? or am i missing a good counter to DK by not using that?

    I also see some talk of weaving / HA improving chance of cfrag proc. I thought ONLY an ability will proc it. so no matter how much light or heavy attack you manage to weave in, it will not proc more? right?

    Crushing shock is a 'beam' skill so it can't get reflected ^^ , weaving is pretty much the best way to do dmg, build ultimate and proc frag all in one.

    By light weaving with a light staff you cast crushing shock/force pulse as the same speed you would just spamming that one skill, the light attack will proc disintegrate as well as build ultimate very quickly. Also the heavy attack is useful vs those perm blocking wing dk's as the heavy attack goes nicely with curse ^^ as in curse will blow when the heavy attack ends so you can re apply while gaining mana.

    Medium weave with a fire staff does a lot more dmg but you get crushing shock off slowing so your frag procs are slower, the medium attacks do quite a bit more dmg than light ones there also very good vs vamps ^^
    PS4 EU DC

    Current CP : 756+

    I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.


    RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...
  • ToRelax
    ToRelax
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    raasdal wrote: »
    wow, i really hit something here it seems.

    Thanks alot for all the feedback.

    I can see that i will simply have to try it out, and see how it feels. But since i am a Dunmer Sorc, fire is usually a good goto. And i have my backbar set up semi offensively with restro, so i can use it against DKs. With restro channeling, curse and streak. So feel like having 2xchannel is a bit constricting.

    For me the Disintegration chance is the key. Can anyone confirm what the health threshold is? Tooltip just says low health targets.

    can also see someone is referencing use of Crushing Shock on DK. i thought that also got reflected but was just missing the animation? or am i missing a good counter to DK by not using that?

    I also see some talk of weaving / HA improving chance of cfrag proc. I thought ONLY an ability will proc it. so no matter how much light or heavy attack you manage to weave in, it will not proc more? right?

    Crushing shock is a 'beam' skill so it can't get reflected ^^ , weaving is pretty much the best way to do dmg, build ultimate and proc frag all in one.

    By light weaving with a light staff you cast crushing shock/force pulse as the same speed you would just spamming that one skill, the light attack will proc disintegrate as well as build ultimate very quickly. Also the heavy attack is useful vs those perm blocking wing dk's as the heavy attack goes nicely with curse ^^ as in curse will blow when the heavy attack ends so you can re apply while gaining mana.

    Medium weave with a fire staff does a lot more dmg but you get crushing shock off slowing so your frag procs are slower, the medium attacks do quite a bit more dmg than light ones there also very good vs vamps ^^

    Crushing shock is a magic single target projectile weapon skill. It does get reflected.

    Light attacks don't build up ultimate any faster than heavy attacks, so that's a non argument.

    Medium weave does not slow you down. You could spam light attacks a bit faster, but not weave.
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  • chevalierknight
    chevalierknight
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    I like lightning vs dks fires better for burst tho
  • Hexys
    Hexys
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    #Situational

    I laughed about the heavy attack from sneak part XD
    Edited by Hexys on September 12, 2015 10:32PM
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  • Erondil
    Erondil
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    Xeven wrote: »
    What are you talking about? You can also use that time for detonation instead, which actually procs frags, does more damage, is aoe, goes through dodge roll etc etc etc.

    Burst is NOT an argument. There are much better things available.

    detonation curse fury frags soul assault

    detonation curse fury frags meteor

    etc
    etc
    etc

    That is not an argument that favors heavy attacks. PERIOD. I have an "elitist" attitude because sheeple cant think for themselves.


    This lesson on how to Sorc has been once again brought to you by uncle Xeven.



    If you're such a pro, you should know that heavy attack doesnt share the same GCD as skills. Eg you can do the exact rotations you purpose with a fire heavy attack weaved before the fragment.
    Also please stop thinking you're a sorc master or you would never say that fire staff is terrible for sorc.
    Edited by Erondil on September 13, 2015 1:31PM
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  • kadar
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    Despite all the silliness, this was actually a very informative post, so thanks OP. I do believe my lowbie Sorc will take advantage when I get around to leveling him. :)
  • cschwingeb14_ESO
    cschwingeb14_ESO
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    Medium attacks are pretty worthless now that most of the benefits of heavy attacks only apply to full-heavy attacks (assuming they implemented it right this time around)

    The only benefit that a full heavy attack has over casting other skills (ie, frags) are: Returns magicka and doesn't take a skill slot. As sorcs, we always have frags on the bar, so bar space is a non-issue. And lightning staff returns as much magicka a fire.

    Disintegrate starts at 10% from what I remember

    DKs and NBs do better with flame staff, which makes my dunmer sorc sad
  • Digiman
    Digiman
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    I used to use Shock staves but changed to Fire staves to test it out. I have to say for PvP the fire staff does well in keeping on better pressure then lightning.

    I would prefer lightning for PvE as it's more useful for bosses and PvP fire to keep up better pressure. Ice seems nice for PvP as well with it giving you a shield on heavy attacks on top of snaring.
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