Templar needs love

BugCollector · September 2015

I've already put a thread about this in the public test server, but now I'm going to post it here too.

What we still need:

1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes
2. No global cooldown on Focused Charge
3. Slightly increased damage on Spear Shards in order to increase aoe dps
4. Chance to instant cast Dark Flare
5. Slightly increased damage ceiling on Backlash

Fizzlewizzle · September 2015

BugCollector wrote: »

I've already put a thread about this in the public test server, but now I'm going to post it here too.

What we still need:

1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes
2. No global cooldown on Focused Charge
3. Slightly increased damage on Spear Shards in order to increase aoe dps
4. Chance to instant cast Dark Flare
5. Slightly increased damage ceiling on Backlash

1. Agree
2. Agree
3. Not really needed, would prefer an AOE CC rather then the 1 target it hits now.
4. Not really needed, although convenient, there are other changes that should come first.
5. Can never hurt.

6. Rework Restoring Aura. Getting a Pot buff for a shorter durating just sucks.
7. Do Something about healing Ritual (First off, revert the 1.7 Ninja nerf).

david.haypreub18_ESO · September 2015

Can you believe that the Templar charge STILL has a global cool down?

I guess you can, if you've been following how much ZOS ignores Templars.

asteldian · September 2015

Purifying light should apply ultimate buff when healing (should also have a bigger radius than the tiny one it has so that it actually heals)
Restoring Aura should restore a set amount stamina over time rather than regen - Templar is the only class without a way to boost stamina without corpses.
Still waiting removal of GCD from charge.

SeptimusDova · September 2015

Ah they just put temps on the back burner. Its not a cool revenue generator like nb or sorc. Those demographics and crown store audits tell them where to pay attention and what to ignore.

nimander99 · September 2015

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Ah they just put temps on the back burner. Its not a cool revenue generator like nb or sorc. Those demographics and crown store audits tell them where to pay attention and what to ignore.

They need to look at my CS purchases then...

SeptimusDova · September 2015

@nimander99 er they did. You haven't bought enough $$$$$ try 5000USD they might listen to you. Bribery will succeed where diplomacy fails.

nimander99 · September 2015

SeptimusDova wrote: »

@nimander99 er they did. You haven't bought enough $$$$$ try 5000USD they might listen to you. Bribery will succeed where diplomacy fails.

5k on what? Seriously?!? There isn't 5k worth of anything in the CS yet... I've literally bought every mount, costume and pet, and now IC as well... are you telling me people are buying CS food and pots and motif's and spending thousands of dollars on that carp?

Fizzlewizzle · September 2015

nimander99 wrote: »

SeptimusDova wrote: »

@nimander99 er they did. You haven't bought enough $$$$$ try 5000USD they might listen to you. Bribery will succeed where diplomacy fails.

5k on what? Seriously?!? There isn't 5k worth of anything in the CS yet... I've literally bought every mount, costume and pet, and now IC as well... are you telling me people are buying CS food and pots and motif's and spending thousands of dollars on that carp?

Some people play using their bank account, rather than their skills.
If you don't have the (ingame) money for pots or food, why waste your time checking a vendor or shouting in chat.
Just pay X real life cash, and you get the same, if not better stuff.

There really are people who have no dignity when it comes to games.
Expansions are okey for me... and maybe sometimes something cosmetic...
But stuff you use up like food and buffs... shoot right in the face if you ever catch me doing that, don't even ask questions.

SeptimusDova · September 2015

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

SeptimusDova wrote: »

@nimander99 er they did. You haven't bought enough $$$$$ try 5000USD they might listen to you. Bribery will succeed where diplomacy fails.

5k on what? Seriously?!? There isn't 5k worth of anything in the CS yet... I've literally bought every mount, costume and pet, and now IC as well... are you telling me people are buying CS food and pots and motif's and spending thousands of dollars on that carp?

Some people play using their bank account, rather than their skills.
If you don't have the (ingame) money for pots or food, why waste your time checking a vendor or shouting in chat.
Just pay X real life cash, and you get the same, if not better stuff.

There really are people who have no dignity when it comes to games.
Expansions are okey for me... and maybe sometimes something cosmetic...
But stuff you use up like food and buffs... shoot right in the face if you ever catch me doing that, don't even ask questions.

this is what is happening the pots and the xp scrolls this is the best way to cp grind you don't have to stop or refill or hunt for potions or mats. and if you stream this makes it easier to be able to top up before an episode. I've seen streamers have 99 of those pots on their quick slot bar add on.

sagitter · September 2015

What we still need:

1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes

Sorry but do you remember that skill without CC immunity? you couldn' t do nothing while taking dmg and get perma cced.yes you can bash or cc the Templar that is puncturing you but while he get cc immunity vs yours cc, you don't.It was a bit op before that change.

nimander99 · September 2015

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

SeptimusDova wrote: »

@nimander99 er they did. You haven't bought enough $$$$$ try 5000USD they might listen to you. Bribery will succeed where diplomacy fails.

5k on what? Seriously?!? There isn't 5k worth of anything in the CS yet... I've literally bought every mount, costume and pet, and now IC as well... are you telling me people are buying CS food and pots and motif's and spending thousands of dollars on that carp?

Some people play using their bank account, rather than their skills.
If you don't have the (ingame) money for pots or food, why waste your time checking a vendor or shouting in chat.
Just pay X real life cash, and you get the same, if not better stuff.

There really are people who have no dignity when it comes to games.
Expansions are okey for me... and maybe sometimes something cosmetic...
But stuff you use up like food and buffs... shoot right in the face if you ever catch me doing that, don't even ask questions.

this is what is happening the pots and the xp scrolls this is the best way to cp grind you don't have to stop or refill or hunt for potions or mats. and if you stream this makes it easier to be able to top up before an episode. I've seen streamers have 99 of those pots on their quick slot bar add on.

Oh exp scrolls... I forgot about those, I always just have a friend make me exp pots when I run out, but yeah, agreed with both of ya @SeptimusDova @Fizzlewizzle

Troneon · September 2015

tplink3r1 · September 2015

1. Yes, remove the CC from it.
2. Yes.
3. No.
4. No.
5. No.

asteldian · September 2015

sagitter wrote: »

What we still need is no free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes

Sorry but do you remember that skill without CC immunity? you couldn' t do nothing while taking dmg and get perma cced.yes you can bash or cc the Templar that is puncturing you but while he get cc immunity vs yours cc, you don't.It was a bit op before that change.

The no free CC immunity is reference to either making the CC actually long enough to justify applying immunity, or removing the CC component entirely. Or even changing it to Concussion effect so it interrupts but does not CC.
The current state of the skill just sucks which is a pain when it is one of our best damage skills.

Kallipsoe · September 2015

I should of known from day one since the Templar is the only class not represented in the fate of the three trailer we are not on Zos's favorite list. In the directors cut I bet they have him/her in the deleted scenes being ridiculed by Zos.

Kas · September 2015

Tbh, I was all in favor of templar buffs during 1.6 (2.0).
Right now, I feel pretty much unstoppable on my Templar. Sure it is slightly *** that I count seconds in my head for enemy cc immunity so that i don't "waste" the cc with sweeps, but apart form that I feel like a patch has never given my class so much love.

Maybe thing will change once other builds have been figured out and/or more players wield proper equip. But right now I feel like my guildmate NBs felt in 1.6 and DKs earlier.

Tankqull · September 2015

sagitter wrote: »

What we still need:

1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes

Sorry but do you remember that skill without CC immunity? you couldn' t do nothing while taking dmg and get perma cced.yes you can bash or cc the Templar that is puncturing you but while he get cc immunity vs yours cc, you don't.It was a bit op before that change.

there is no need for a knockback on that skill - eraze it add a 8 sec duration 25% snare on each hit stacking on each other for a total of a 75% snare = fixed strikes with a worthwhile cc without stunlocking anybody.

Kas · September 2015

Tankqull wrote: »

sagitter wrote: »

What we still need:

1. No free CC immunity from Puncturing Strikes

Sorry but do you remember that skill without CC immunity? you couldn' t do nothing while taking dmg and get perma cced.yes you can bash or cc the Templar that is puncturing you but while he get cc immunity vs yours cc, you don't.It was a bit op before that change.

there is no need for a knockback on that skill - eraze it add a 8 sec duration 25% snare on each hit stacking on each other for a total of a 75% snare = fixed strikes with a worthwhile cc without stunlocking anybody.

snare on sweeps/jabs would be incredibly OP and any templar losing against a wrecking blow (or other meele) player should immediately delete his char, if things were like that.

willymchilybily · September 2015

asteldian wrote: »

Restoring Aura should restore a set amount stamina over time rather than regen - Templar is the only class without a way to boost stamina without corpses.

This statement confuses me as i don't know templar very well but i thought your stamina regen skills looked good on paper. dks using EH i/batttle roar is nice and sorcs sacrificing magicka for stamina is okay but still id take repentance over that any day as its good for me and my allies and has no cost, And you do get like 4% reduced cost from restoring spirit

DK has earthen heart passive helping hands (5% stamina returned when using EH skills)+Battle roar
Sorcerer have dark deal sacrafice magicka for stmaina and health.
NB has grim focus morph i forget which but that's only stamina regen, and siphoning i guess but dont know what thats like in 1.7 but has a nice morph so its not just basic attack

id say you aren't exactly lacking myself. though admittedly im no position of experience having not played templar properly. and im sure they do need some buffing. maybe the grass just looks greener on the other side?

twistedmonk · September 2015

Templar just has too many channeling spells - which are always bad in PvP

You have limited mobility during channel. There are too many counters for channeling spells - your opponent can simply move and avoid a some/lot of the damage depending on lag.

Problem is with Jabs is there is already a preconception of what its supposed to do...people are expecting a 4-hit 1.1 second channel casting.

The spell is not designed for PvP in miind - bright golden animation that screams Templar Here. 1.1 second channel, horribly weak CC - which benefits the opponent since it gives them CC immunity as has been the complaint now for 1.5 years since release with no solution in sight.

I do love the animation and the sound effect - it never gets old to me...PvE it's fine as is.

I just don't know how to fix it for PvP.

BugCollector · September 2015

Do something about all these channels we have, ZOS!

leepalmer95 · September 2015

The game is pretty much ESO : Nb edition at the moment.

So many boring gankers.

Ep just zerg around
Ad just gank.

60% of people play a nb.

I'm thinking it's time to move on for me soon i'll have to see after this patch but for now the game is boring, full of bugs that just are being ignored by zos in favour of some 2nd rate re textured mount.

Anhedonie · September 2015

Nobody gives a *** about templars. Just calm down and accept it.

DanTeales_Inferno · September 2015

If im not mistaken, if you look at other charges such as crit rush, they now have a GCD similar to TC. A case of "if you cant beat em join em" if you ask me.

AfkNinja · September 2015

More dmg on Binding Javelin or add Major Breach to it. I love the skill but it's so weak!

FireCowCommando · September 2015

I'm pretty sure this is about Male Templars needing love, right?

If there are any lady Templars needing some more love, let me know

likewow777 · September 2015

willymchilybily wrote: »

asteldian wrote: »

Restoring Aura should restore a set amount stamina over time rather than regen - Templar is the only class without a way to boost stamina without corpses.

This statement confuses me as i don't know templar very well but i thought your stamina regen skills looked good on paper. dks using EH i/batttle roar is nice and sorcs sacrificing magicka for stamina is okay but still id take repentance over that any day as its good for me and my allies and has no cost, And you do get like 4% reduced cost from restoring spirit

DK has earthen heart passive helping hands (5% stamina returned when using EH skills)+Battle roar
Sorcerer have dark deal sacrafice magicka for stmaina and health.
NB has grim focus morph i forget which but that's only stamina regen, and siphoning i guess but dont know what thats like in 1.7 but has a nice morph so its not just basic attack

id say you aren't exactly lacking myself. though admittedly im no position of experience having not played templar properly. and im sure they do need some buffing. maybe the grass just looks greener on the other side?

Yes, Repentance is actually an excellent skill for the Templar caster and group members. And with a high enough damage pool, the health/stamina return is north of 4k (with 40k magicka, I can do a 4.5k heal). The problem is that it isn't sustainable without dead bodies. The other skills/passives you mentioned are castable repeatedly over the course of a single boss battle, meaning that even in the absence of dead bodies to use, you get a resource return. Using Repentance without dead bodies, however, does nothing and is therefore not a reliable way to return resources (I know, there's the passive 10% regen, but I'm focusing on a skill or passive that directly returns a chunk of resources).

Granted, the grass is probably greener, and any non-Templar would argue that a free resource return should not be usable all the time. I agree with that as well, but the problem there is that the other morph, Radiant Aura, which does boost regen, is terrible. It used to be amazing, but with the buff system, the regen it gives isn't good enough to justify it over Repentance (to me at least). The salt on the wound then comes in the form of things like:

Fizzlewizzle wrote: »

Something i was really surprised about with the IC update was the constant complain about Templars have Resource problems (not even starting about damage and other stuff), and NB's get a new and improved Refreshing shadows:
Refreshing Shadows (passive): Adjusted this ability from 15/30% Stamina recovery to 7/15% Stamina, Health and Magicka recovery. We also fixed an issue which caused this passive to not increase health regeneration.
I really was like... wtf.

Imagine, if you will, 4 stamina 2H DPS, one from each class. All of them use Wrecking Blow as their primary attack, and they are fighting against a boss like The Mage (Bogdan, the Ash Titan, or any other boss fight that doesn't have any or many adds works too). The DK will use ulti and regain stamina, the Sorc will use Dark Deal and regain stamina, the NB will use Siphoning to regain stamina, and the Templar will..... There aren't any real enemies to Repentance off of, and all 4 classes can chug pots equally.

Also, it might sound like I'm yelling at you, but I'm not. I'm just trying to use your post to make a point that Templars still need some work.

Soulshine · September 2015

I have to say some of the arguments around Radiant Aura vs Repentance and their respective utility for anything other than a healer have always amused me a bit. The skills exists in the Restoring Light tree for a reason and one which I think is often misunderstood.

Repentance is a skill which has always been on my bar for heals, long before the changes to Radiant Aura came about. In combination with Blazing Spear, you can effectively have a team that will never run out of Stamina or health when used correctly. In combo with an additional buff such as Mystic Orb for any magicka users in the team, there is often little need for pots for anyone. I have done this literally since beta and have not seen it fail once.

That said, I get that Stamina DPS Templars find Repentance useful for self sustain in most trash situations and those other than long single boss fights, but Radiant Aura in particular is a morph that should have been a single skill moved to Aedric Spear tree long ago, to provide Templar tanks in particular a clearer incentive to use it since that is where it makes the most sense. To date, the devs continue to ignore this particular issue and it remains a "meh" morph for healers, though I don't know any who use it anymore these days.

The larger implications of this are that it really isn't just a Templar problem. It also has to do with the lack of relevant Synergies for group encounters since most of the resource management skills on ALL classes in this game are fairly poor.

In LotrO for example, we had a number of group synergies in which all team members participated (6 people at a time in that game) and from which all benefited once they were executed. They could provide power heals, health heals, increased damage magnitude, damage over time, or any combination of benefits depending on the combination conjunction that was chosen.

In this game, it seemed they tried to move in that direction but got frozen midway in their tracks since our Synergy system truly pales in comparison.

Instead what we got was excessive reliance on underdeveloped individual class skills for team utility, regardless of role, which has left some of this mess on our hands most prominently since Templars have a great many skills meant for utility and support more than outright damage skills on par with those of the other three classes in this game.

Farorin · September 2015

I would like for some of the under used, or near useless skills to get a buff or a tweak, but truthfully, I would like this for all classes, as literally every class has at least a handful of class skills that are pretty crappy.

Templar specific changes though, I would like to see some more useful options for my Stamplar, although I do agree with the list of changes you proposed.

JDar · September 2015

Oh never mind, I basically agree

I would not want to play a templar at this time, it doesn't sound like fun