Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Ryuho wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Ryuho wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ViciousWayz wrote: »

Time to point out the obvious just to be clear:

People have taken shield stacking to new highs, it's everywhere for those able to do it. While a DK and Temp can do it..... a Sorc can do it best along with dishing out damage while having shields constantly applied and ranged CC, etc..

This set, counters the shield stacking. That's it.. that's all there is to it. If you can't top 2k DPS than it's not the set or shields, etc.. that is your problem, it's your DPS. In Cyrodiil.. you need to DPS unless you run with a group and have a specific role for that group.

They could've nerfed Shields into the ground, and after all this they just might. This is actually ZOS taking the high road and saying okay.... "Well, we'll let them still do that but here's a way to counter it if that's worth it to you."

It's 2k per attack, sorc lack a healing so 10 hits will kill them, that combined with the fact hardened ward is a sorc's only defence means that there pressured and can't even heal because they still take dmg.

Sets Op, all the people denying it use it ofc.

WTB LOL !!

Man maybe its time to slot heals then?? Stop using oldfashioned combo - stack hardened/harness/healing ward and tank them while charging dawnbreaker.. NO and NO ! Try to adjust like all must, use combat prayer, healing springs, alliance war ball heals with only 1 shield active.. Seriously i dont get it, its only 2k dmg.. u can esly overheal it with healing springs and force ur opponent to go melee.. And if u cry cause u cant kill 2-3 ppls now, casue ur shieldstack defense is "not working".. try to use environment or split them or whatever.. Start to use ur brain finally..

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

R0M2K wrote: »

Having to gear to just counter a particular game mechanic is a design flaw.

Allow Shields to be critted & doted, remove the shield stacking and erase that set.

I agree. I agree with you 100%. Either that, or make a set to counter against Cloak users to such as extremes as Shield Breaker. Or make a set to deal with snipe users to such extremes. So on and so forth. Shields being critical hit, again. I agree with you 100%. Granted, I'm a Sorcerer and see no flaw with that logic. As it would assist with balance.

As for the shield stacking removal? Eh... I can't agree 100%, but I could understand where you come from in that logic. I don't agree 100% with this, as a Sorcerer we wear light armor (primarily). And we don't usually have "too high" of health, as say a Dragonknight or Templar. But, yes. You made some valid points, sir. Kudos.

Srry mate, u can stack HP as much as temlpar and DK do, they dont have any passives to incr HP pool.. Just remind urself 1.5 and below, evryy1 had 3k HP and 2.2k mana or so.. Maybe time to revert ur stats a bit, to get at least 25k hp?

Hm... I'm curious, then if I were to do make said adjustments in attributes to cater more towards health -- what about damage? As Sorcerers gain most of our damage and defense from our magicka pool. Are you suggesting I reduce overall damage and defense, for more health? Granted shield stacking is not the wisest of ideas anymore.

Stack more spell dmg, replace magicka cost reduction with spell dmg glyphs (vr14 gives now 133 spell dmg) it should work even better than ur magicka loose, som1 made comparison spell dmg vs magicka, pls dig on forum.. naturally dmg wise + heal pwoer this will be better.. as for shield, invest more in bastion, try to use healing received shield to boost mutagen/combat prayer, CPs into blessed passive..

Naturally u can play as u want and stack shields as crazy, if u like that, prolly u will kill still a lot of ppls, u will loose only vs shieldbreaker users, which is good.. As @DeanTheCat wrote "Wearing 7/7 Light Armor is also another choice. Using shields is another... " with which i completly agree, there are counters to counters, try to live with that my sorc friends, u cant win vs evry class all the time in this patch with old methods (shieldstack), try to counter the counters.. Above is only an idea.. But should work..

I have 2.8k spell damage and 34k max magicka with destro/resto so my damage is fine. The problem is sustain against stam builds that use shieldbreaker, it looks like this set is designed like stam abilities dont do any damage while the opposite is the case. Snipes and Wrecking Blows still hit hard so its not like I cannot safely dps for 5 seconds with only 1 shield against physical damage (hardened ward) and 1 situation shield/heal (healing ward).

The difficulty lies in the fact that you can hardly return any damage while trying to shield and out-heal the damage from a shieldbreaker to your health on top of the normal ability damage to your shield/health.

Im fine with a counter against shields but this isnt a counter because that would indicate that the shieldbreaker set has a counter of its own but that is not the case.

Its all about play and counter play, and I guess the logic here is that the counter play is to remove all shields from ones build.

BigTone wrote: »

My other problem here is that it further pigeon holes Sorcs into using a resto staff. I'm one of the few sorcs I know that doesn't use one atm. I currently rely on keeping my shields up, having decent health recovery, and every once and a while getting a crit surge heal. So far I haven't found a way to survive 2k dmg as rapidly as it has been coming. The only thing I can think of is equipping a resto like every other sorc out there and this is not something I want to do.

I don't run a resto staff on my caster sorc, but a while back my stamina sorc used one. Its irritating that despite having so many ways to heal as a class none of them are reliable, the clannfear heal is a quick fix I was hoping, the twilight waits until you're almost dead then kills itself to heal you, blood magic is only as spammable as the dark magic skills, which is to say not very, surge is surge and most everything is easily replaced. Almost forgot dark exchange, but its just, I even forgot to mention it.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler can we get shield breaker to go through people who permablockderpmodeactivate, I mean the set IS called shield breaker.......

the more people QQ (OP included) the worse it gets

Cannot imagine who at ZoS thought this set was a good idea.

On my NB I absoluetly love it. It's the best thing since sliced bread, is basically applies the butter - in tear form - for you. Fighting Sorcs has went from a very annoying battle to checkmate with just one simple set bonus. As for those saying "you can counter it with skill" - you mean watching the Sorc try to bolt away while they run out of magicka due to the nerf while I just gap close in their face, at very small cost, and light attack them to death?

On my Sorc I absolutely hate it. Hardened Ward is the only skill that let light armor Sorcs remain viable. With one simple set bonus all is for not. Sure I can attempt to heal through your light and heavy attacks while breaking LoS - which works - but makes for zero fun. The best solution is to burst the person with the set down as fast as possible before he can inflict major damage.

Every build in this game has a counter, usually by skill or gameplay. This is the first time I have seen a set give a player an advantage this large. Nerf it? Sure, I would love to go back to fighting Sorcs that don't melt like butter, as well as playing a Sorc that can survive more than a limp noodle falling in its general direction. Don't nerf it? Sure, I will continue to abuse the broken set playing easy-mode NB while my Sorc collects dust.

CP5 wrote: »

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Ryuho wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Ryuho wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

ViciousWayz wrote: »

Time to point out the obvious just to be clear:

People have taken shield stacking to new highs, it's everywhere for those able to do it. While a DK and Temp can do it..... a Sorc can do it best along with dishing out damage while having shields constantly applied and ranged CC, etc..

This set, counters the shield stacking. That's it.. that's all there is to it. If you can't top 2k DPS than it's not the set or shields, etc.. that is your problem, it's your DPS. In Cyrodiil.. you need to DPS unless you run with a group and have a specific role for that group.

They could've nerfed Shields into the ground, and after all this they just might. This is actually ZOS taking the high road and saying okay.... "Well, we'll let them still do that but here's a way to counter it if that's worth it to you."

It's 2k per attack, sorc lack a healing so 10 hits will kill them, that combined with the fact hardened ward is a sorc's only defence means that there pressured and can't even heal because they still take dmg.

Sets Op, all the people denying it use it ofc.

WTB LOL !!

Man maybe its time to slot heals then?? Stop using oldfashioned combo - stack hardened/harness/healing ward and tank them while charging dawnbreaker.. NO and NO ! Try to adjust like all must, use combat prayer, healing springs, alliance war ball heals with only 1 shield active.. Seriously i dont get it, its only 2k dmg.. u can esly overheal it with healing springs and force ur opponent to go melee.. And if u cry cause u cant kill 2-3 ppls now, casue ur shieldstack defense is "not working".. try to use environment or split them or whatever.. Start to use ur brain finally..

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

R0M2K wrote: »

Having to gear to just counter a particular game mechanic is a design flaw.

Allow Shields to be critted & doted, remove the shield stacking and erase that set.

I agree. I agree with you 100%. Either that, or make a set to counter against Cloak users to such as extremes as Shield Breaker. Or make a set to deal with snipe users to such extremes. So on and so forth. Shields being critical hit, again. I agree with you 100%. Granted, I'm a Sorcerer and see no flaw with that logic. As it would assist with balance.

As for the shield stacking removal? Eh... I can't agree 100%, but I could understand where you come from in that logic. I don't agree 100% with this, as a Sorcerer we wear light armor (primarily). And we don't usually have "too high" of health, as say a Dragonknight or Templar. But, yes. You made some valid points, sir. Kudos.

Srry mate, u can stack HP as much as temlpar and DK do, they dont have any passives to incr HP pool.. Just remind urself 1.5 and below, evryy1 had 3k HP and 2.2k mana or so.. Maybe time to revert ur stats a bit, to get at least 25k hp?

Hm... I'm curious, then if I were to do make said adjustments in attributes to cater more towards health -- what about damage? As Sorcerers gain most of our damage and defense from our magicka pool. Are you suggesting I reduce overall damage and defense, for more health? Granted shield stacking is not the wisest of ideas anymore.

Stack more spell dmg, replace magicka cost reduction with spell dmg glyphs (vr14 gives now 133 spell dmg) it should work even better than ur magicka loose, som1 made comparison spell dmg vs magicka, pls dig on forum.. naturally dmg wise + heal pwoer this will be better.. as for shield, invest more in bastion, try to use healing received shield to boost mutagen/combat prayer, CPs into blessed passive..

Naturally u can play as u want and stack shields as crazy, if u like that, prolly u will kill still a lot of ppls, u will loose only vs shieldbreaker users, which is good.. As @DeanTheCat wrote "Wearing 7/7 Light Armor is also another choice. Using shields is another... " with which i completly agree, there are counters to counters, try to live with that my sorc friends, u cant win vs evry class all the time in this patch with old methods (shieldstack), try to counter the counters.. Above is only an idea.. But should work..

I have 2.8k spell damage and 34k max magicka with destro/resto so my damage is fine. The problem is sustain against stam builds that use shieldbreaker, it looks like this set is designed like stam abilities dont do any damage while the opposite is the case. Snipes and Wrecking Blows still hit hard so its not like I cannot safely dps for 5 seconds with only 1 shield against physical damage (hardened ward) and 1 situation shield/heal (healing ward).

The difficulty lies in the fact that you can hardly return any damage while trying to shield and out-heal the damage from a shieldbreaker to your health on top of the normal ability damage to your shield/health.

Im fine with a counter against shields but this isnt a counter because that would indicate that the shieldbreaker set has a counter of its own but that is not the case.

Its all about play and counter play, and I guess the logic here is that the counter play is to remove all shields from ones build.

then add a counterplay to shield?i just read sorc QQ about this set,things like this set should be removed nerfed in to oblivion etc.This set is not good as people claim to be,a good sorc will kill you in less than 5 sec in you start to (lol) light attack him plus i don't see magika NB,Templar or Dk QQ about this set, just bad sorc that are to lazy to move from melee range....

i don't see any suggestion from sorc,just "youre mad cuz can't kill a sorc L2P".

Kahen40k wrote: »

Another 7 pages on this QQ about shield breaker?? Lets be honest, if you keep getting killed by ppl using this set, then there is really something wrong on your playstyle.

So basically the problem is that if you stay still like a sitting duck in the open for about 15 sec and you keep spamming shields like an idiot, while your hp gradually get down you die? Against an ability that can be outhealed by mutagen and be dodged, in a place with tons of way to get out of los, with probably the best escape ability in the game (no you can still spam it) and vs a setup that you will melt as soon as he get in range? Really???

Perma dodge and block are impossible now and all classes have to give up something if they wanna be more durable, why sorcerers has to be the exception? And keep in mind that this count only if somebody use a specific set that is arguably useless agaist everything else. Not to mention that, imo this bonus is barely a issue for a good sorc.

Seriously, if you don't know how to play solo, bring a healer friend or be in a group, stop complaining about everything that doesn't make you immortal; go check some video of good players, like king Richard or Sypher and see how many times they got killed by shield breacker. In alternative, get the set yourself, find a good sorc and try to kill him with only light attack, lets see how it will end....

You claim you can still spam streak while perma dodge is impossible. Streak penalty is 50% increase while dodge is 33%. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Also the set is not useless against anything else. Someone can cast healing ward and they are now susceptible to this set. Someone can rez someone with the CP passive that gives a damage shield and they are susceptible to this set. Someone can have the CP passives that grants a damage shield and they are suscepible to this set. Someone can cast barrier and THE ENTIRE GROUP is susceptible to this set. A DK can cast igneous on an ally and they are susceptible to this set. A person can drink a potion with the CP passive and they are susceptible to this set.

All players can get damage shields. This is not a Sorc issue, its a flawed set issue.

BigTone wrote: »

Kahen40k wrote: »

Another 7 pages on this QQ about shield breaker?? Lets be honest, if you keep getting killed by ppl using this set, then there is really something wrong on your playstyle.

So basically the problem is that if you stay still like a sitting duck in the open for about 15 sec and you keep spamming shields like an idiot, while your hp gradually get down you die? Against an ability that can be outhealed by mutagen and be dodged, in a place with tons of way to get out of los, with probably the best escape ability in the game (no you can still spam it) and vs a setup that you will melt as soon as he get in range? Really???

Perma dodge and block are impossible now and all classes have to give up something if they wanna be more durable, why sorcerers has to be the exception? And keep in mind that this count only if somebody use a specific set that is arguably useless agaist everything else. Not to mention that, imo this bonus is barely a issue for a good sorc.

Seriously, if you don't know how to play solo, bring a healer friend or be in a group, stop complaining about everything that doesn't make you immortal; go check some video of good players, like king Richard or Sypher and see how many times they got killed by shield breacker. In alternative, get the set yourself, find a good sorc and try to kill him with only light attack, lets see how it will end....

You claim you can still spam streak while perma dodge is impossible. Streak penalty is 50% increase while dodge is 33%. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Also the set is not useless against anything else. Someone can cast healing ward and they are now susceptible to this set. Someone can rez someone with the CP passive that gives a damage shield and they are susceptible to this set. Someone can have the CP passives that grants a damage shield and they are suscepible to this set. Someone can cast barrier and THE ENTIRE GROUP is susceptible to this set. A DK can cast igneous on an ally and they are susceptible to this set. A person can drink a potion with the CP passive and they are susceptible to this set.

All players can get damage shields. This is not a Sorc issue, its a flawed set issue.

I don't know, then maybe you should stop throwing shields around everywhere. It'll nerf this set right-quick-like.

Masuimi wrote: »

Soon people will start logging on their 2nd accounts to cast barrier around friendlies and make ez kills for their normal alliance.


This set is garbage. it can be abused in way too many ways.

Yes, let's protect the enemy from 10K skill hits and AOE bombing so we can tickle them for 2K single-target damage instead.

/rollseyes.

Masuimi wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Masuimi wrote: »

Soon people will start logging on their 2nd accounts to cast barrier around friendlies and make ez kills for their normal alliance.


This set is garbage. it can be abused in way too many ways.

Yes, let's protect the enemy from 10K skill hits and AOE bombing so we can tickle them for 2K single-target damage instead.

/rollseyes.

Also seen DK casting petrify on enemies and equipping a bow to spam/abuse this set.

Okay, that's cool.

Sharee wrote: »

Masuimi wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Masuimi wrote: »

Soon people will start logging on their 2nd accounts to cast barrier around friendlies and make ez kills for their normal alliance.


This set is garbage. it can be abused in way too many ways.

Yes, let's protect the enemy from 10K skill hits and AOE bombing so we can tickle them for 2K single-target damage instead.

/rollseyes.

Also seen DK casting petrify on enemies and equipping a bow to spam/abuse this set.

The first light attack will break the petrify, stopping the set bonus from working. You just have spent two actions to do 2-3k damage to the enemy when you could have hit him with two wrecking blows for 16k instead.

If it's not breaking, then that would be a legitimate bug, and should be /bugged. Also, very creative.

Sharee wrote: »

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

OhItsReckt wrote: »

FYI the shield breakers 5/5 set bonus only deals damage against the shield. Without an active shield, it won't harm you, and it only triggers on a light attack. I'm not fully seeing how this is OP? Simply stop abusing shields and this won't bother you at all, then guess what, now you have everyone running around with 5/5 shield breaker, almost half of their armor slots invested just to counter one game breaking feature. Now you don't have to worry about any of the useful 5/5 armor sets. GG. Stop crying.

I have 23k hp, I have light armor, I'm seeing people hit me for 20-40 k in a few seconds, so how exactly do I face up to a stealthing nb or a heavy melee ccing me? shields have been baked into the design of sorcerer because the light armor is so weak. Now we have shield breaker that guarantees 2k dps unmitigated. I don't abuse shields, I use 2 slots just to stay alive, other classes have access to 2 as well, the difference is that I cant stealth and I have low armor. doesn't take a genius to work out what will happen.

Kinda like a templar using radiant destruction against my roll dodge. If i just let him cast it in peace without doing anything about it, i deserve to die.

A sorcerer who lets an enemy continually light attack him in peace without doing anything about it deserves to die as well.

Always these theories..... omg
In a 1v1, that might be true. Try doing something if you can't even directily face the target or there are more players hitting on you at the same time.

More and more people are running this set, because it has no trade off. It's sickly overpowered and broken too and the piece traits are way too good.

Sharee wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

_adhyffbjjjf12 wrote: »

OhItsReckt wrote: »

FYI the shield breakers 5/5 set bonus only deals damage against the shield. Without an active shield, it won't harm you, and it only triggers on a light attack. I'm not fully seeing how this is OP? Simply stop abusing shields and this won't bother you at all, then guess what, now you have everyone running around with 5/5 shield breaker, almost half of their armor slots invested just to counter one game breaking feature. Now you don't have to worry about any of the useful 5/5 armor sets. GG. Stop crying.

I have 23k hp, I have light armor, I'm seeing people hit me for 20-40 k in a few seconds, so how exactly do I face up to a stealthing nb or a heavy melee ccing me? shields have been baked into the design of sorcerer because the light armor is so weak. Now we have shield breaker that guarantees 2k dps unmitigated. I don't abuse shields, I use 2 slots just to stay alive, other classes have access to 2 as well, the difference is that I cant stealth and I have low armor. doesn't take a genius to work out what will happen.

Kinda like a templar using radiant destruction against my roll dodge. If i just let him cast it in peace without doing anything about it, i deserve to die.

A sorcerer who lets an enemy continually light attack him in peace without doing anything about it deserves to die as well.

Always these theories..... omg
In a 1v1, that might be true. Try doing something if you can't even directily face the target or there are more players hitting on you at the same time.

Kinda the point i was making with the 'radiant destruction vs roll dodge' example. 1v1, not such a problem. Several hitting you at same time, GG. It's nothing new.

And even in a 1v1, you usually die until you even know what's going on against shieldbreaker.
At first you think you just take some overflow damage but then you realize what's happening to you, you try to heal yourself somehow but it's too late. CC on you and good fight good night.

CP5 wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

BigTone wrote: »

Kahen40k wrote: »

Another 7 pages on this QQ about shield breaker?? Lets be honest, if you keep getting killed by ppl using this set, then there is really something wrong on your playstyle.

So basically the problem is that if you stay still like a sitting duck in the open for about 15 sec and you keep spamming shields like an idiot, while your hp gradually get down you die? Against an ability that can be outhealed by mutagen and be dodged, in a place with tons of way to get out of los, with probably the best escape ability in the game (no you can still spam it) and vs a setup that you will melt as soon as he get in range? Really???

Perma dodge and block are impossible now and all classes have to give up something if they wanna be more durable, why sorcerers has to be the exception? And keep in mind that this count only if somebody use a specific set that is arguably useless agaist everything else. Not to mention that, imo this bonus is barely a issue for a good sorc.

Seriously, if you don't know how to play solo, bring a healer friend or be in a group, stop complaining about everything that doesn't make you immortal; go check some video of good players, like king Richard or Sypher and see how many times they got killed by shield breacker. In alternative, get the set yourself, find a good sorc and try to kill him with only light attack, lets see how it will end....

You claim you can still spam streak while perma dodge is impossible. Streak penalty is 50% increase while dodge is 33%. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Also the set is not useless against anything else. Someone can cast healing ward and they are now susceptible to this set. Someone can rez someone with the CP passive that gives a damage shield and they are susceptible to this set. Someone can have the CP passives that grants a damage shield and they are suscepible to this set. Someone can cast barrier and THE ENTIRE GROUP is susceptible to this set. A DK can cast igneous on an ally and they are susceptible to this set. A person can drink a potion with the CP passive and they are susceptible to this set.

All players can get damage shields. This is not a Sorc issue, its a flawed set issue.

I don't know, then maybe you should stop throwing shields around everywhere. It'll nerf this set right-quick-like.

Go, just go in game, look around and be amazed at how many shields there are. How many shields to the oh so hated sorcerer's use? 3, with only one unique to them. Is this set, made to please the mass of angry players a good idea when shields are a very common thing in game?

Actually, this is a pretty good solution. Before this set, shields offered a very strong defense with no real disadvantages. Now, shields offer a very strong defense with a risk that you might run into a player using this set.

I guarantee you, this change wasn't made because of people crying on the forums. Shield stacking became way too popular in the meta to leave it alone. As a designer you can choose to nerf everything to oblivion, and declare victory, punishing the innocent and guilty alike. Or, you can do this, add an item, that will hard counter the current meta, but also means you're giving up a lot to make it happen.

In Shield Breaker's case, you're losing the ability to have another 5pc armor only set bonus. Which, again, that's a pretty major hit to be taking over this. Especially when you could be running something else, like the Sentry set that got linked on the last page.

So, you can now dominate players who are using shields... and will still get killed and eaten by stealthed foes. It also means you won't be swinging a utility set like Seducer, or Night's Silence.

In fact, Shield Breaker is actually a riskier set to buy because, and I know this will happen, shield stacking will disappear in PvP, and then we'll have a bunch of players saying they ground up 50k stones for a Shield Breaker set, and it's worthless. Because it's value is determined entirely based on what other players are doing.

You guys pointing to barrier . So, a zerg will fight another zerg, and one of those zergs will be running shieldbreaker to 2k damage people with barrier as the other zerg steel tornados?