State of the DK, 1.7

Armitas · September 2015

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

@Armitas Trolls will be trolls man, I havent posted because I didnt feel much needed to be added. I have been fairly vocal about my opinions about this patch and the status of the DK for the last year and this post was well made. Its sad that you get bad players and bad people on your thread that was totally constructive and civil to begin with @hardcore_gmr you, my friend, are bad and you should feel bad.

Rylana wrote: »

Summary - dont post any 1v1 videos/builds to try to convince anyone that DK is okay, because it is not.

Theres a heck of a lot more a DK needs to be able to do than fight ONE player at a time.

Not often I agree with you but in this case I could not agree with you more, thanks for the post.

Thanks man. I appreciate it.

Sensesfail13 · September 2015

I will post my experiences so far this patch as a DK and I feel I was fairly well known for my alliance, whether for good or ill, as a decent DK tank:

PVE: (Disclaimer: I have tanked all content in game successfully with DK and NB tanks)
I have been relegated to the red headed step child pinata of every group, from a badass tough SoB that could not only grab aggro but support and cc adds... you know... so the dps and healers could focus on their jobs of... dps'ing and healing...
Now I sit in a corner staring at stamina and my taunt debuff... wait, puncture... heal when my pitiful magicka pool allows (and no because of the stamina nerf I cannot put more points into magicka, it doesnt make any sense), puncture, ask for shard, puncture, heal. Mob is dead, I did nothing, My entire PVE gamestyle, out the door. I could keep going on and on with the problems Ive run into with this DLC but I prefer not to... I have a little less trouble on my NB tank but its not much better to tell the truth. Burning application nerf, execution still a major fail, I dont feel dps is even a viable option for us DK's anymore although Doable... is floating around on the forums a lot these days. Ive never wanted doable I strive to be better in and out of game and this was a major uncalled for setback and this has just taken any urge to continue the game from me.

PVP:
So I have always loved being that front man, first into the pack, CC talon caltrop... you name it. Being that tough *** just being a nuisance in combat leaving my guildmates and groupmates to worry about the flow of combat while I try to centralize attack on me. It was alot of fun, I have now been declawed. No more defensive playstyle no more supportive playstyle. I feel like pvp is being relegated to whack-a-mole and I hate it. I have seen the builds by other DK players that focus more on single combat attack playstyles while still being defensive, although thats cool and I am super happy that my DK brethren have found a light in the dark when it comes to this patch. Im just not seeing it. I cant support my group I cant even kill the PVE mobs without help. My defenses just flop because of the stamina nerf and I have no urge to go dps, yet again, not my playstyle.

Im sure there will be a lot of people that find things wrong with what I have said here, and personally, I dont care. I think that these lazy blanket nerfs have effected a LOT more people negatively than they have positively, and that goes for DK and Templar players that play their classes effectively more than most. Personally, Im finding it very hard to continue playing, my DK is my main, Ive put WEEKS of gameplay just into him. Ive spent hundreds of dollars on this game and overall PVE and PVP is boring or unplayable ( but doable thanks Eric Wroebel) and my entire playstyle, also all of my equipment, is now worthless.

FYI, this post was not entirely about DK skills, its just my experience or lack thereof in the current patch paradigm. Personally if I cant even use my DK skills because my playstyle has been crushed that should fall under the dk skills problem as well.

Vraneon · September 2015

I can't really see the issue here. DK's have been the number one Tank and Dps classes till this patch and now that they are not the clear number one, class people start to complain about it? I have problems finding the real arguments in this posts, because they are so heavily exaggerating.

Of course DK's have support skills, every class offers a minor dmg bonus to critical or raw dmg. The Dk shield is still a good aoe shield, what other class has an aoe shield? Claws are still awesome, immobilize, do dmg, ignite and have a synergy (and offer a dmg bons due to immobilization to dual wielding), the dragonknight chains worked through many dungeons I saw today. None of the Dk Tanks had stamina or magicka or healing problems in the v16 dungeons. Also you can use your magicka for other spells than healing, because you have a healer dedicated to heal you. As a dps I also don't start healing myself when I loose 35 % of my health I wait till the healer heals it. They have two ults which lets you use a synergy one for aoe, one good for duoing as a damage shield.

Where's the problem? Still an awesome support, damage dealing and supporting class. People still play DK's and do really well, no matter what role (haven't seen healers though). Blocking has been nerfed, but that affects all classes not only DK's. Also every class has some bugs, not just Dk's only.

hardcore_gmr · September 2015

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

@Armitas Trolls will be trolls man, I havent posted because I didnt feel much needed to be added. I have been fairly vocal about my opinions about this patch and the status of the DK for the last year and this post was well made. Its sad that you get bad players and bad people on your thread that was totally constructive and civil to begin with @hardcore_gmr you, my friend, are bad and you should feel bad.

Rylana wrote: »

Summary - dont post any 1v1 videos/builds to try to convince anyone that DK is okay, because it is not.

Theres a heck of a lot more a DK needs to be able to do than fight ONE player at a time.

Not often I agree with you but in this case I could not agree with you more, thanks for the post.

I was content to leave you people to yet another complaint thread but my name is being used and I don't know why? I've been fairly clear here, op made this thread because he felt skills were broken, I disagreed. He makes mention of bugs and broken mechanics and I countered with video evidence that these bug and broken skills do not exist. If people want to side with OP that is on them, but I do not feel bad for pointing out that they are wrong. I find it odd that people are still trying to argue that skills are broken, when you see the skill in action working as intended.

As for doing more than fighting one person, check the magicka video I left in this thread. I believe I see more than one person at a time in that video. The magic video is also from the first day of the patch

My point here is not to change anyone's who has already made up their mind about the DK class, but merely to counter the misinformation being provided to people who haven't played the DK yet, or people who were thinking about running the DK as a future class. My point is simply to point out that while, OP is entitled to his opinion, there is a counter point, apparently one that is being willfully ignored.

Yonkit · September 2015

hardcore_gmr wrote: »

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

@Armitas Trolls will be trolls man, I havent posted because I didnt feel much needed to be added. I have been fairly vocal about my opinions about this patch and the status of the DK for the last year and this post was well made. Its sad that you get bad players and bad people on your thread that was totally constructive and civil to begin with @hardcore_gmr you, my friend, are bad and you should feel bad.

Rylana wrote: »

Summary - dont post any 1v1 videos/builds to try to convince anyone that DK is okay, because it is not.

Theres a heck of a lot more a DK needs to be able to do than fight ONE player at a time.

Not often I agree with you but in this case I could not agree with you more, thanks for the post.

I was content to leave you people to yet another complaint thread but my name is being used and I don't know why? I've been fairly clear here, op made this thread because he felt skills were broken, I disagreed. He makes mention of bugs and broken mechanics and I countered with video evidence that these bug and broken skills do not exist. If people want to side with OP that is on them, but I do not feel bad for pointing out that they are wrong. I find it odd that people are still trying to argue that skills are broken, when you see the skill in action working as intended.

As for doing more than fighting one person, check the magicka video I left in this thread. I believe I see more than one person at a time in that video. The magic video is also from the first day of the patch

My point here is not to change anyone's who has already made up their mind about the DK class, but merely to counter the misinformation being provided to people who haven't played the DK yet, or people who were thinking about running the DK as a future class. My point is simply to point out that while, OP is entitled to his opinion, there is a counter point, apparently one that is being willfully ignored.

There is no counter point to OP's statement. He pointed out skills and passives that currently, in PvP, are asinine. Anyone who says otherwise simply has not played a DK prior to this new Patch. As @Rylana said, don't post videos and expect them to mean anything, DKs are inherently screwed this Patch, Kodi's build for example, doesn't even use our class HEAL, to heal himself. Scribes build, while good for very small engagements, provides absolutely zero group synergy. The only thing DK has going for it in this patch is Talons spam, to drain everyone of their Stamina. Our heal is crap, our damage is sub-par, our sustain is very questionable, we don't have any burst damage inherent to our class, we never have. Armitas is not asking for DKs to be like they were at Launch, he's asking for ZoS to look at certain skills & passives that are currently, well to put it simply. Blatantly stupid, and he's asking ZoS to fix them, or change them. This isn't a whine thread, it isn't a complaint thread, it's a thread that wants people like you, and your misinformation, to stop.

DKs are not in a good spot right now, do they work? Certainly. Do they work well? Not as well as any other of the three classes. This is what this thread is about.

Want to tank? Roll a Templar, you'll have practically zero stamina management issues as a stamina based heavy armor Templar if you use Engine Guardian and repentance.

Want to DPS? Roll a Sorcerer or Nightblade, both do more damage than DKs currently.

Want to Heal? Roll a Templar.

For PvP Dks are vastly inferior to every other class/spec out there, INCLUDING, Sorcerer tanks, because they have a viable self heal and a way to restore a large portion of their stamina, Dks don't have crap for a self heal and the stamina return from their passive is entirely reliant on their max stam pool.

Armitas · September 2015

Vraneon wrote: »

I can't really see the issue here. DK's have been the number one Tank and Dps classes till this patch and now that they are not the clear number one, class people start to complain about it? I have problems finding the real arguments in this posts, because they are so heavily exaggerating.

Of course DK's have support skills, every class offers a minor dmg bonus to critical or raw dmg. The Dk shield is still a good aoe shield, what other class has an aoe shield? Claws are still awesome, immobilize, do dmg, ignite and have a synergy (and offer a dmg bons due to immobilization to dual wielding), the dragonknight chains worked through many dungeons I saw today. None of the Dk Tanks had stamina or magicka or healing problems in the v16 dungeons. Also you can use your magicka for other spells than healing, because you have a healer dedicated to heal you. As a dps I also don't start healing myself when I loose 35 % of my health I wait till the healer heals it. They have two ults which lets you use a synergy one for aoe, one good for duoing as a damage shield.

Where's the problem? Still an awesome support, damage dealing and supporting class. People still play DK's and do really well, no matter what role (haven't seen healers though). Blocking has been nerfed, but that affects all classes not only DK's. Also every class has some bugs, not just Dk's only.

The scope of my list encompass both PvE and PvP. The majority of the list are factual problems, only a portion are opinionated and you are welcome to explain how they are exaggerated.

A group shield that causes your group to actually take more damage than they otherwise would have is not a "good shield", that is actually the opposite of what a good shield should do. I never mentioned "claws" (talons) so I don't know why you are defending it. DK chains do work sometimes, no one is denying that, the problem is when they don't and they should, or when you expect to pull and you get pulled instead. Here is a hilarious video example, taken from this thread, of what is happening when it isn't working.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya2AIA6sn5I

The reason why your tanks had no problem healing is because they are in a PvE dungeon, in PvP there is a 50% nerf to all damage, shields, and healing. I didn't say anything about stam sustain or magicka in my OP, but it's not surprising it's not a problem in a dungeon, because you don't even need tanks for those. Just 3 dps and a healer. IIRC it's the trials are where people are complaining about stamina and tanking in regards to PvE not dungeons. I have no comment as I haven't tanked a dungeon or trial in months.

Armitas · September 2015

hardcore_gmr wrote: »

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

@Armitas Trolls will be trolls man, I havent posted because I didnt feel much needed to be added. I have been fairly vocal about my opinions about this patch and the status of the DK for the last year and this post was well made. Its sad that you get bad players and bad people on your thread that was totally constructive and civil to begin with @hardcore_gmr you, my friend, are bad and you should feel bad.

Rylana wrote: »

Summary - dont post any 1v1 videos/builds to try to convince anyone that DK is okay, because it is not.

Theres a heck of a lot more a DK needs to be able to do than fight ONE player at a time.

Not often I agree with you but in this case I could not agree with you more, thanks for the post.

He makes mention of bugs and broken mechanics and I countered with video evidence that these bug and broken skills do not exist.

Oh is that what that was? It looked like a highlight reel to me. If this is video evidence then Ancient Aliens is going to get a Day Time Emmy for journalism.

TotterTates · September 2015

Hey everyone, I almost never post on these forums (I actually had to delete "Dawnbreaker Campaign" from my signature a minute ago...), but I'm starting to get salty. Some of you may know me, I recognize a select few of you, so I'll keep it short and productive.

I don't know much about DKs in PVP, but one thing I do know about is tanking...been filling that role since the the level cap was raised to 20 in the betas. Tanking has gone through several drastic changes within its "meta" since release.

For those who are new to the game (or to tanking) a brief timeline of the tank meta:

(release-v1.1.2) 7 Heavy-cry-because-of-our-repair-bills build (repair cost was based on damage taken)
(v1.1.2-v1.2.3) 7 Heavy/S&B/Destroy Staff magicka bruiser/aoe build (pre-molten whip nerf)
(v1.2.3-v1.5.3) 5 Med/2 Heavy/S&B/2Hander evasive stamina build (post-Hist Bark nerf)
(v1.5.3-v1.6.5)5/1/1 Dual S&B Monster-Helm-Controller builds (still my favorite... shout out to my build "The Bastion")
(v1.6.5-v2.1.4) The insanity that is a competitive-speed VDSA build (...)

Tanking started out as a priority-targeting meatshield, added group buffing, and gradually progressed into the hyper-controlling monster that it was 2 weeks ago. Now, we have reverted back to stage 1.

Don't get me wrong, us tanks will survive this assault, but we are now being forced to become taunt-turtles. I won't go into details because I feel @Sensesfail13 did a great job with that. As far as our skills, @Armitas, it's laughable how bad they are. Anyone who has dedicated their time to the DK class for as long as some of us here can tell you that we have endured repeated "scaling adjustments" and stubborn bugs (think back to the taunting debacle from 1.5).

Bottom line: When your skill bars (tank/dps/heals) display a glaring lack of class skills and you now spend your time watching resource bars instead of game mechanics, there is an issue that needs some attention. Ignore the haters, you have my support.

Armitas · September 2015

TotterTates wrote: »

"Dawnbreaker Campaign"

#NeverForget

Brrrofski · September 2015

Armitas wrote: »

Vraneon wrote: »

I can't really see the issue here. DK's have been the number one Tank and Dps classes till this patch and now that they are not the clear number one, class people start to complain about it? I have problems finding the real arguments in this posts, because they are so heavily exaggerating.

Of course DK's have support skills, every class offers a minor dmg bonus to critical or raw dmg. The Dk shield is still a good aoe shield, what other class has an aoe shield? Claws are still awesome, immobilize, do dmg, ignite and have a synergy (and offer a dmg bons due to immobilization to dual wielding), the dragonknight chains worked through many dungeons I saw today. None of the Dk Tanks had stamina or magicka or healing problems in the v16 dungeons. Also you can use your magicka for other spells than healing, because you have a healer dedicated to heal you. As a dps I also don't start healing myself when I loose 35 % of my health I wait till the healer heals it. They have two ults which lets you use a synergy one for aoe, one good for duoing as a damage shield.

Where's the problem? Still an awesome support, damage dealing and supporting class. People still play DK's and do really well, no matter what role (haven't seen healers though). Blocking has been nerfed, but that affects all classes not only DK's. Also every class has some bugs, not just Dk's only.

The scope of my list encompass both PvE and PvP. The majority of the list are factual problems, only a portion are opinionated and you are welcome to explain how they are exaggerated.

A group shield that causes your group to actually take more damage than they otherwise would have is not a "good shield", that is actually the opposite of what a good shieldould do.

I've seen this in a few threads.

Can someone explain what the issue with obsidian shield is? Should I be using the shield from draconic power instead?

Draxys · September 2015

Completely agree with OP (and other supporters). Been playing my DK since launch and I've finally gotten to the point where it's been nerfed so much that I sincerely don't even want to play it. From a PvP perspective, there is absolutely no reason to play a DK right now.

OrphanHelgen · September 2015

I WANT MINOR BRUTALITY FROM ACTIVATING AN EARTHEN HEARTH ABILITY PLS ITS BUGGED !!

Sensesfail13 · September 2015

Brrrofski wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Vraneon wrote: »

I can't really see the issue here. DK's have been the number one Tank and Dps classes till this patch and now that they are not the clear number one, class people start to complain about it? I have problems finding the real arguments in this posts, because they are so heavily exaggerating.

Of course DK's have support skills, every class offers a minor dmg bonus to critical or raw dmg. The Dk shield is still a good aoe shield, what other class has an aoe shield? Claws are still awesome, immobilize, do dmg, ignite and have a synergy (and offer a dmg bons due to immobilization to dual wielding), the dragonknight chains worked through many dungeons I saw today. None of the Dk Tanks had stamina or magicka or healing problems in the v16 dungeons. Also you can use your magicka for other spells than healing, because you have a healer dedicated to heal you. As a dps I also don't start healing myself when I loose 35 % of my health I wait till the healer heals it. They have two ults which lets you use a synergy one for aoe, one good for duoing as a damage shield.

Where's the problem? Still an awesome support, damage dealing and supporting class. People still play DK's and do really well, no matter what role (haven't seen healers though). Blocking has been nerfed, but that affects all classes not only DK's. Also every class has some bugs, not just Dk's only.

The scope of my list encompass both PvE and PvP. The majority of the list are factual problems, only a portion are opinionated and you are welcome to explain how they are exaggerated.

A group shield that causes your group to actually take more damage than they otherwise would have is not a "good shield", that is actually the opposite of what a good shieldould do.

I've seen this in a few threads.

Can someone explain what the issue with obsidian shield is? Should I be using the shield from draconic power instead?

@Brrrofski I see @Armitas didnt get a chance to answer your question but it has been said in another post I believe.
What happens is a portion of your shield is given to all of your group mates, say you get a 3k dmg shield on yourself and you get 1k on your groupmates (totally hypothetical numbers) and your group mates get hit for 800 you now have a 200 dmg shield left and you get hit for 5k directly following that, you have the 200 dmg shield taken away and the rest of that 4800 dmg hits you full force, no mitigation nothing helps. Where as if you were to get hit without the damage shield you may have mitigations ie physical resistance and spell resistance that would stop a significant portion of that damage. That is why low dmg shields on your entire group are a liability rather than an asset.

And for @hardcore_gmr I believe I stated why your name was mentioned, youre bad and you should feel bad. As well as your entire argument being flawed because you obviously did not read the post and you make that more readily apparent every time you post in this thread.

OrphanHelgen · September 2015

Kindling - The nerf to secondary effect proc chance has really made this a wasted passive. 66% more burning isn't helpful when the chance to apply burning is so low.

-- Isnt it on dmg over time fire effects? So its not a "proc"? Like shooting star, the ground dmg that last for 11 sec does more dmg, it even stands on tooltip, or am I wrong`?

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO · September 2015

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I WANT MINOR BRUTALITY FROM ACTIVATING AN EARTHEN HEARTH ABILITY PLS ITS BUGGED !!

I've seen this before, and I'm pretty sure it's not bugged, the tooltip is unclear. I remember testing it once with a friend. I think you only get the minor brutality if you cast while currently gaining ultimate. This is assuming when I instructed my friend how to perform the test that he did it correctly lol

hardcore_gmr · September 2015

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I WANT MINOR BRUTALITY FROM ACTIVATING AN EARTHEN HEARTH ABILITY PLS ITS BUGGED !!

I've seen this before, and I'm pretty sure it's not bugged, the tooltip is unclear. I remember testing it once with a friend. I think you only get the minor brutality if you cast while currently gaining ultimate. This is assuming when I instructed my friend how to perform the test that he did it correctly lol

This is correct

Brrrofski · September 2015

Sensesfail13 wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Vraneon wrote: »

I can't really see the issue here. DK's have been the number one Tank and Dps classes till this patch and now that they are not the clear number one, class people start to complain about it? I have problems finding the real arguments in this posts, because they are so heavily exaggerating.

Of course DK's have support skills, every class offers a minor dmg bonus to critical or raw dmg. The Dk shield is still a good aoe shield, what other class has an aoe shield? Claws are still awesome, immobilize, do dmg, ignite and have a synergy (and offer a dmg bons due to immobilization to dual wielding), the dragonknight chains worked through many dungeons I saw today. None of the Dk Tanks had stamina or magicka or healing problems in the v16 dungeons. Also you can use your magicka for other spells than healing, because you have a healer dedicated to heal you. As a dps I also don't start healing myself when I loose 35 % of my health I wait till the healer heals it. They have two ults which lets you use a synergy one for aoe, one good for duoing as a damage shield.

Where's the problem? Still an awesome support, damage dealing and supporting class. People still play DK's and do really well, no matter what role (haven't seen healers though). Blocking has been nerfed, but that affects all classes not only DK's. Also every class has some bugs, not just Dk's only.

The scope of my list encompass both PvE and PvP. The majority of the list are factual problems, only a portion are opinionated and you are welcome to explain how they are exaggerated.

A group shield that causes your group to actually take more damage than they otherwise would have is not a "good shield", that is actually the opposite of what a good shieldould do.

I've seen this in a few threads.

Can someone explain what the issue with obsidian shield is? Should I be using the shield from draconic power instead?

@Brrrofski I see @Armitas didnt get a chance to answer your question but it has been said in another post I believe.
What happens is a portion of your shield is given to all of your group mates, say you get a 3k dmg shield on yourself and you get 1k on your groupmates (totally hypothetical numbers) and your group mates get hit for 800 you now have a 200 dmg shield left and you get hit for 5k directly following that, you have the 200 dmg shield taken away and the rest of that 4800 dmg hits you full force, no mitigation nothing helps. Where as if you were to get hit without the damage shield you may have mitigations ie physical resistance and spell resistance that would stop a significant portion of that damage. That is why low dmg shields on your entire group are a liability rather than an asset.

And for @hardcore_gmr I believe I stated why your name was mentioned, youre bad and you should feel bad. As well as your entire argument being flawed because you obviously did not read the post and you make that more readily apparent every time you post in this thread.

I see. Yeh, that is not good at all then. Back to spiked armor then I think!

OrphanHelgen · September 2015

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I WANT MINOR BRUTALITY FROM ACTIVATING AN EARTHEN HEARTH ABILITY PLS ITS BUGGED !!

I've seen this before, and I'm pretty sure it's not bugged, the tooltip is unclear. I remember testing it once with a friend. I think you only get the minor brutality if you cast while currently gaining ultimate. This is assuming when I instructed my friend how to perform the test that he did it correctly lol

So you cant press earthenheart to buff yourself before fight, you have to do it during the fight?

Leandor · September 2015

I feel that a long way towards fixing the support abilities of the dragonknight (and others as well) would be to finally stomp out the overflow bug. Let the DK be the shields provider, the nightblade be a buff provider, the templar be the heal provider and the sorc to be the lost stepchild no one wants. That would be a good approach.

(The sorc comment was not meant to be taken serious, guys. Just saying.)

Armitas · September 2015

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Kindling - The nerf to secondary effect proc chance has really made this a wasted passive. 66% more burning isn't helpful when the chance to apply burning is so low.

-- Isnt it on dmg over time fire effects? So its not a "proc"? Like shooting star, the ground dmg that last for 11 sec does more dmg, it even stands on tooltip, or am I wrong`?

Yeah the dots got wrecked. The only thing with a good proc rate is weapon glyphs and they have an internal cooldown. Impulse and force pulse have also lost their special 40% chance at applying it. The impulse>Force Pulse combo that made Force Pulse an AOE was a great combo that we lost without any gaining anything in it's place.

Weapon enchants 20%
Standard ability 10%
Area of effect abilities 5%
Damage over time abilities 3%
Area of effect damage over time abilities 1%

Bashev · September 2015

Armitas wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

Kindling - The nerf to secondary effect proc chance has really made this a wasted passive. 66% more burning isn't helpful when the chance to apply burning is so low.

-- Isnt it on dmg over time fire effects? So its not a "proc"? Like shooting star, the ground dmg that last for 11 sec does more dmg, it even stands on tooltip, or am I wrong`?

Yeah the dots got wrecked. The only thing with a good proc rate is weapon glyphs and they have an internal cooldown. Impulse and force pulse have also lost their special 40% chance at applying it. The impulse>Force Pulse combo that made Force Pulse an AOE was a great combo that we lost without any gaining anything in it's place.

Weapon enchants 20%
Standard ability 10%
Area of effect abilities 5%
Damage over time abilities 3%
Area of effect damage over time abilities 1%

And Dots were so OP in PvP.
\sarcasm

willymchilybily · September 2015

Damn forum fools, damn you all. no one mentioned BUFF DK or anything of the like only mechanics that are currently broken or ill thought out.

@Artimas was pointing out weaknesses that have cropped up and been exacerbated i dont agree with him entirely but what i do agree with the main one i agree with is the fact that when a shield breaks any over spill hits with unmitigated damage and this is a BUG that NEEDS to be fixed @hardcore_gmr the fact the class is still good at PVP even with a bug is testiment to overzealous changes made by ZOS, but the bug also effects all shield users templars and sorcerers.

As DK shields are tiny from both ferocious leap and obsidian shield, it makes those abilities detrimental to use because of a BUG, the reward of the shield is undone by unmitigated damage overspill. The fact people still use them is because they want to pop earthenheart abilities or ultimate gap closers to regain resources doesnt mean it isnt broken, just means the player prefers the resources accepting the extra damage. in one of your vid's the guy use igneous shield as a healing buff, not as a shield. so not the skill obsidian shield op was on about.

the fact DKs are good in PVP 1.7 because resource management and damage nerfs in no way means broken mechanics should not be fixed. if you go tanky with heavy armor you cripple yourself by using certain abilities and this isnt known by the average user, its not new player friendly, and the effect is in PVE not just PVP. stop being so one dimensionaly aggressivel because your one shot no resource management builds from 1.6 dont hold up. And DKs great resource management makes them powerful this patch doesnt diminish proven broken mechanics just because one skilled player in a PVP video

hardcore_gmr · September 2015

@willymchilybily I never said that there are not some bugs that need to be worked out. Do I acknowledge that sometimes skills will not activate, yes! has happened many times on ALL my characters, hell my nightblade hardly ever cloaked when I wanted in 1.6. I have never had this mysterious overflow bug on any of my shields. no, I do not wear heavy armor. Yes I use igneous shield. Yes it has a great boost to healing and because it scales off health my is somewhat weak. In fact, I have tested this both in PVP and in PVE and could not replicate the conditions you mention. No, that does not mean that there is no bug for damage against shields. however the fact that players are not able to replicate this bug does make it problematic in fixing. I've taken all my gear off and had a friend hit me with his most powerful stuff while igneous shield is up and then did it again with my gear on, each time the damage is reduced with the gear on vs naked. I can only point out that a common misconception about how damage is calculated is to look at the death screen recap. most people don't realize that the damage is what was done to the players health not the total damage done. The number for total damage done is much higher, it is only reduced by the armor and spell resistance the player has. Damage shields are a flat mitigation, but spell and armor resistance is not, these factors act as a percentage not a flat value.

maybe there is a bug in the math but unless it can be replicated and perhaps documented for ZoS (and non believer players like myself) because a large percentage of players use this skill and only a small few can even report the slightest increase in damage while using it. Why a player uses a skill is player dependent, me I use igneous shield for the 30% increase to healing and battle roar for regen of my primary resource not my secondary, which brings me to my last point, the rampant use of opinion as fact. The large part of Artimas OP is personal preference and opinion which he is entitled to. Other players have the right to agree with that opinion but others have the right to disagree. I fall into the latter category, and why the class excels so well in PVP and PVE for some and not for others is perhaps testament to the fact that where some might see room for improvement someone else might see empowering skills that function well to a specific purpose. I chose Kodi's video because he is a DK enthusiast, he enjoys the class not because it is super powerful right now but because he makes it powerful. I and others share this sentiment. we have a point to disagree with Artimas, no disrespect intended except it came across to me as if he had accepted his own opinion and sought to tell us all how we should feel as well. That I could not allow, I placed the videos to show someone using those skills Artimas thought needed changing (not based on a bug, but because he personally did not like the way they performed).

BTW...in both Kodi's video's he is using igneous shield and if you watch his health every time the shield breaks, he is NOT taking extra damage.

Armitas · September 2015

Overflow bug has been common knowledge since 1.6 man. There have been no reports of it being fixed. Google it.

It's more manageable for you because you get twice the shield and can reapply it before it goes down. Your group is stuck with it however.

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO · September 2015

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I WANT MINOR BRUTALITY FROM ACTIVATING AN EARTHEN HEARTH ABILITY PLS ITS BUGGED !!

I've seen this before, and I'm pretty sure it's not bugged, the tooltip is unclear. I remember testing it once with a friend. I think you only get the minor brutality if you cast while currently gaining ultimate. This is assuming when I instructed my friend how to perform the test that he did it correctly lol

So you cant press earthenheart to buff yourself before fight, you have to do it during the fight?

Correct. Basically, start your rotation with LA -> Earthen Heart Ability -> Normal Rotation

OrphanHelgen · September 2015

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

ryanmjmcevoy_ESO wrote: »

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

I WANT MINOR BRUTALITY FROM ACTIVATING AN EARTHEN HEARTH ABILITY PLS ITS BUGGED !!

I've seen this before, and I'm pretty sure it's not bugged, the tooltip is unclear. I remember testing it once with a friend. I think you only get the minor brutality if you cast while currently gaining ultimate. This is assuming when I instructed my friend how to perform the test that he did it correctly lol

So you cant press earthenheart to buff yourself before fight, you have to do it during the fight?

Correct. Basically, start your rotation with LA -> Earthen Heart Ability -> Normal Rotation

Thanks, yeah you are right, I recieved the buff now

hardcore_gmr · September 2015

Armitas wrote: »

Overflow bug has been common knowledge since 1.6 man. There have been no reports of it being fixed. Google it.

It's more manageable for you because you get twice the shield and can reapply it before it goes down. Your group is stuck with it however.

I have spent the last two days trying to recreate this bug and every time the shield drops I take normal damage even on attacks that one shot through the shield. Help me out what are you doing to recreate this bug that I am not? I ask cause I am genuinely interested in seeing this fixed but part of play testing for bugs is being able to recreate the bug so we can document it for ZoS. Can you give anything other than anecdotal evidence?

Armitas · September 2015

There are pics of it. Like I said google it. If you did you would have seen the pics. I really don't care if you believe me or not, I have tested it and I know that it happens. Because of the way you entered this thread, you are not what I would consider, "worth my time" so you can waste another day testing it, I don't care.

puffy99 · September 2015

Dude don't be a prick unless you can back it up. He is being civil.

hardcore_gmr · September 2015

Armitas wrote: »

There are pics of it. Like I said google it. If you did you would have seen the pics. I really don't care if you believe me or not, I have tested it and I know that it happens. Because of the way you entered this thread, you are not what I would consider, "worth my time" so you can waste another day testing it, I don't care.

Well I tried...I could only find stuff listed on the PTS forum for this "overflow bug" which if conventional wisdom tells us anything is that it is very well possible this bug has never and likely will never make it to Live gameplay. I can't find a single article, forum thread, or player who has had this bug in Live servers. Because you still want to be butt hurt and act like anyone with a different opinion then yours is somehow out to get you, I will go back to my original statement that this is definitely a L2P issue. You are right, I have given this thread way too much time and energy as all my testing has convinced me that this bug does not exist and the rest of your opinions seem to fall into the same category, a player issue nothing more. Thank you though for proving that your post was intended to be just another player complaint thread, as anyone who truly wanted to see this bug fixed would be play testing and capturing video to make this "PTS issue" a bigger deal so that developers could address it. Instead you choose to create this thread to vent I took your venting as legimate concern and voiced my opinion and here we are now. At any rate, good luck with what every you intend to happen next with this thread and again I will leave. My only ask is that instead of quoting me and trying to discredit what I've said, how about you post some proof to back up your claims and as I said when you began this thread, we'll let players decide.

I encourage anyone in a live server to test this players claim of a mysterious overflow bug to test the validity for yourself. I know what you will find, and I have a sneaking suspicion that the OP knows too. but if you do test, please post your results here so that if there is a bug and anyone can replicate it, maybe we can have a developer look into the issue rather than making a thread of opinion and conjecture then alienating anyone who has a different opinion. THAT IS ALL!