I know we're all still getting geared, but we need to get back to the punching!!

Recremen · September 2015

Let's face it, with the pop caps still low and a whole new expansive zone opened up, we need to coordinate with each other if we're going to keep the actual PvP part of this game alive. Current meta is actually to AVOID fighting for most of the folk going into PvP, and with the ability to spawn into any of the 6 zones (and thus nearly anywhere in the sewers as well), fights are few and far between. No clever PvEers are going to try to steal Tel Var stones when they know they can just farm them in relative safety by hopping to the right campaigns and using good avoidance strategies. That leaves us PvPers with a new PvP zone that seems kind of empty (fun as it is from a PvE perspective).

We can't go to a keep and coax fights out because everyone is in Imperial City. We can't fight anyone in Imperial City consistently because there are too many tools to avoid other players. AP has dropped to nearly nonexistent levels, and the violent frolic I'm used to is more like a crawl through the sun-parched desert begging for tears.

While ZOS figures out how to coax people into caring about the PvP aspect of IC, those of us who already do should be cross-faction coordinating to get fights in. Respawn times are nearly instant, so while we don't exactly have goals to fulfill like crowning emp or nabbing scrolls, we can at least have our blood at regular intervals.

So come on, there any EP or DC guilds that want to fite me 1 v one? (and by that I mean come fight my guild)

Leovolao · September 2015

Recremen · September 2015

Leovolao wrote: »

NO TEA POT THIS IS NO TIME FOR LOVE, FIGHT ME

(<3)

Cathexis · September 2015

The game for me has become hunting people in IC and making off with their stones

Teargrants · September 2015

I have just two words to say on the matter:

Gated access.

manny254 · September 2015

In my opinion the current problem is that there is no incentive for pvp within IC. PVP ing to get TV stones is honestly inefficient, and you will get more ap in cyrodiil. The pvp is simply not rewarding as grinding mobs is a more effective way of getting stones, loot, and trophies.

Recremen · September 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

I have just two words to say on the matter:

Gated access.

And that may well be one of the ways ZOS decides to incentivize PvP, who knows, but until then it's been hard to run into the guilds we used to.

Recremen · September 2015

Cathexis wrote: »

The game for me has become hunting people in IC and making off with their stones

Well sure if you're a ganker that's great, the IC is actually really good for you! Those of us looking for group fights, though, are going to need to make our own bed for now.

Recremen · September 2015

manny254 wrote: »

In my opinion the current problem is that there is no incentive for pvp within IC. PVP ing to get TV stones is honestly inefficient, and you will get more ap in cyrodiil. The pvp is simply not rewarding as grinding mobs is a more effective way of getting stones, loot, and trophies.

Yeah, that's the thrust of my argument. But I'm not looking to criticize or suggest new ways to incentivize PvP. There's dozens of threads for that already. I'm looking for fights. Fight me. FIght my guild. Fight my pig.

Zheg · September 2015

I wouldn't mind picking a night and campaign where all of the major pvp guilds stop the IC grinding and go pvp in reg cyro. Withdrawal symptoms are imminent.

Recremen · September 2015

Zheg wrote: »

I wouldn't mind picking a night and campaign where all of the major pvp guilds stop the IC grinding and go pvp in reg cyro. Withdrawal symptoms are imminent.

Good, I like this. You got a handle I can whisper in game?

nothing2591 · September 2015

Im gonna have to disagree that ap has dropped , made over 300k the first day of ic just by solo roaming the city on my sorc. you will get full ap if an npc kills a player so use the bosses to your advantage :P The fire boss down in the sewers is my new 2vx mate.

WRX · September 2015

nothing2591 wrote: »

Im gonna have to disagree that ap has dropped , made over 300k the first day of ic just by solo roaming the city on my sorc. you will get full ap if an npc kills a player so use the bosses to your advantage :P The fire boss down in the sewers is my new 2vx mate.

Consistent and important fights do not exist anymore is the big issue. And without lockouts, it is likely that we will never see the action we had in 1.6 again.

Somewhat feels like camp nerfs 2.0.

Lucky28 · September 2015

Personally. i'm just not enjoying Cyrodiil PvP all that much. takes too long to kill an enemy player (sometimes two players simply can't kill each other) with the PvP buffs no longer applying in PvE i have less reason to actually put in the effort to make sure my alliance is doing well on my home server.

Used to be i could PvP in cyrodiil for hours, now 20 minutes and i'm bored. Probably just going to wait for the next patch before i get serious about PvP again.

Master_Kas · September 2015

Lucky28 wrote: »

Used to be i could PvP in cyrodiil for hours, now 20 minutes and i'm bored. Probably just going to wait for the next patch before i get serious about PvP again.

Same here. On top of that Cyrodiil outside IC/sewers is a wasteland.

Since I prefer cyrodiil pvp, I play less and less everytime oO

Recremen · September 2015

WRX wrote: »

nothing2591 wrote: »

Im gonna have to disagree that ap has dropped , made over 300k the first day of ic just by solo roaming the city on my sorc. you will get full ap if an npc kills a player so use the bosses to your advantage :P The fire boss down in the sewers is my new 2vx mate.

Consistent and important fights do not exist anymore is the big issue. And without lockouts, it is likely that we will never see the action we had in 1.6 again.

Somewhat feels like camp nerfs 2.0.

This is the thing. Gankers and solo players were never starved for AP and I'm totally fine with/encourage that. IC is like gank heaven and I know they're having loads of fun. But all the people doing group fights can't just become gankers like it were some FOTM playstyle, there'd be nobody left to gank, just a bunch of invisible death machines roaming around praying for a PvE nub who hasn't figured out Wayrest Sewers is the real grind spot.

IC has a lot of potential for, if nothing else, endless waves of violence, but there's no overarching goal, no ability to do anything of substance to coax fights, so we can't even have endless waves of violence. In the meantime, if the main PvP guilds want to get together and at least decide on some nights/campaigns to duke it out for a few hours, we can keep from burning out on the PvE grind while ZOS decides how to make it work long-term.

WRX · September 2015

Recremen wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

nothing2591 wrote: »

Im gonna have to disagree that ap has dropped , made over 300k the first day of ic just by solo roaming the city on my sorc. you will get full ap if an npc kills a player so use the bosses to your advantage :P The fire boss down in the sewers is my new 2vx mate.

Consistent and important fights do not exist anymore is the big issue. And without lockouts, it is likely that we will never see the action we had in 1.6 again.

Somewhat feels like camp nerfs 2.0.

This is the thing. Gankers and solo players were never starved for AP and I'm totally fine with/encourage that. IC is like gank heaven and I know they're having loads of fun. But all the people doing group fights can't just become gankers like it were some FOTM playstyle, there'd be nobody left to gank, just a bunch of invisible death machines roaming around praying for a PvE nub who hasn't figured out Wayrest Sewers is the real grind spot.

IC has a lot of potential for, if nothing else, endless waves of violence, but there's no overarching goal, no ability to do anything of substance to coax fights, so we can't even have endless waves of violence. In the meantime, if the main PvP guilds want to get together and at least decide on some nights/campaigns to duke it out for a few hours, we can keep from burning out on the PvE grind while ZOS decides how to make it work long-term.

I am all for this.

But Men'do, the wise and infamous cat, conquerer of milk and scratch posts alike, please add something into your sig so people all across nirn know who they are talking to

If this interferes with your other endeavors then ignore me haha

Poxheart · September 2015

Recremen wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

nothing2591 wrote: »

Im gonna have to disagree that ap has dropped , made over 300k the first day of ic just by solo roaming the city on my sorc. you will get full ap if an npc kills a player so use the bosses to your advantage :P The fire boss down in the sewers is my new 2vx mate.

Consistent and important fights do not exist anymore is the big issue. And without lockouts, it is likely that we will never see the action we had in 1.6 again.

Somewhat feels like camp nerfs 2.0.

This is the thing. Gankers and solo players were never starved for AP and I'm totally fine with/encourage that. IC is like ZERG heaven and I know they're having loads of fun.

Correction based on my observations having stepped into the IC for the first time last night.

danno8 · September 2015

If you didn't lose 80% of your stones if you get killed by a player, people wouldn't be trying to avoid each other so much. They probably wouldn't try to avoid each other at all.

I think the penalty makes it more intense, but if you want to farm stones for new gear (which everyone does at this point) farming mobs in a circle in the sewers near your alliance base is the best bet unfortunately.

BossTuggles · September 2015

PvP is by FAR the best way to get TV stones. In roughly 15hrs ish of PvP in IC I have 1 and a half v16 purple sets and I have had enough Trophies to open 3 vaults. The issue is walking around in GIANT groups rather than small groups of 4 or so. And also for those people who are used to PvP'ing in this game there are SOOOOO many PvE'ers right now in IC that will do all that TV stone farming for you. I think the new IC content is great the only thing I would change would be the Respawning in Districts and of course the Load Screens.

TLDR find 3 or 4 people who you know can handle themselves and roam the sewers and crush all of these people who stand in a group and spam healing springs. Sooooo many choke points that their numbers mean nothing. Go 300 on them.

danno8 · September 2015

BossTuggles wrote: »

PvP is by FAR the best way to get TV stones. In roughly 15hrs ish of PvP in IC I have 1 and a half v16 purple sets and I have had enough Trophies to open 3 vaults. The issue is walking around in GIANT groups rather than small groups of 4 or so. And also for those people who are used to PvP'ing in this game there are SOOOOO many PvE'ers right now in IC that will do all that TV stone farming for you. I think the new IC content is great the only thing I would change would be the Respawning in Districts and of course the Load Screens.

TLDR find 3 or 4 people who you know can handle themselves and roam the sewers and crush all of these people who stand in a group and spam healing springs. Sooooo many choke points that their numbers mean nothing. Go 300 on them.

If you have enough trophies to open 3 vaults then you have done a whole lot of PvE also. Just sayin'.

Poxheart · September 2015

It's difficult NOT to PvE in that zone. There are mobs everywhere and even using single target skills you are going to hit mobs because of they get in the way.

Recremen · September 2015

Poxheart wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

nothing2591 wrote: »

Im gonna have to disagree that ap has dropped , made over 300k the first day of ic just by solo roaming the city on my sorc. you will get full ap if an npc kills a player so use the bosses to your advantage :P The fire boss down in the sewers is my new 2vx mate.

Consistent and important fights do not exist anymore is the big issue. And without lockouts, it is likely that we will never see the action we had in 1.6 again.

Somewhat feels like camp nerfs 2.0.

This is the thing. Gankers and solo players were never starved for AP and I'm totally fine with/encourage that. IC is like ZERG heaven and I know they're having loads of fun.

Correction based on my observations having stepped into the IC for the first time last night.

There are definitely zergs running around, you're not wrong there, but many mechanics in the IC actually discourage zerging from a rewards perspective. If I recall the details correctly, only the top 10 contributors get rewards from a kill, or at the very least they get the lions share, meaning many in your large zerg group will be begging for scraps by the end of the night. And all a ganker has to do is wait for someone's health to drop from a PvE fight to hit them from range and go invisible again, nabbing stones and keeping all their escape options open, as grand illustrious gankmunster @nothing2591 has pointed out!

Switching the focus from zergs to group fighting for a moment, groups have some tools in place to seek rewarding gameplay, but a lot going against them. In overworld Cyro, you can see where fighting is happening easily, and you have every reason to go seek it out. That's where you'll get meat for your player kill quests, that's where the AP is, that's where the fights are, and if you're not in Cyro for the fights then what are you there for? You are there for skyshards and delve bosses. And that's fine, but that's a one-time thing, the continued purpose of Cyro is for combat.

In IC, however, you can't get back to the bounty boards to turn in quests, and because gear progression is tied unavoidably to the new zone, there's a huge influx of purely PvE players that are trying to avoid you at all costs, and they have the tools to do so. The only problem I have with that is that it's taking pop away from the fighting folk of Cyro, so if your guild has locked into one campaign expecting fights only for it to be filled mostly with PvE folk, you're all gonna have a bad time.

So back to the point of this post, until ZOS figures out a way to address those issues, it's up to us PvPers to coordinate with each other to get fights in. So grab your guild and fight me. Fight my guild. Fight my pig.

BossTuggles · September 2015

killing mobs while running around in the sewers looking for people, if you consider that PvE then yes I am the PvE master than.

Recremen · September 2015

BossTuggles wrote: »

PvP is by FAR the best way to get TV stones. In roughly 15hrs ish of PvP in IC I have 1 and a half v16 purple sets and I have had enough Trophies to open 3 vaults. The issue is walking around in GIANT groups rather than small groups of 4 or so. And also for those people who are used to PvP'ing in this game there are SOOOOO many PvE'ers right now in IC that will do all that TV stone farming for you. I think the new IC content is great the only thing I would change would be the Respawning in Districts and of course the Load Screens.

TLDR find 3 or 4 people who you know can handle themselves and roam the sewers and crush all of these people who stand in a group and spam healing springs. Sooooo many choke points that their numbers mean nothing. Go 300 on them.

Doing PvP for Tel Var Stones is (mostly, minus multiplier bonuses) subject to zero-sum economic problems. You're getting a lot now because there are comparatively few PvPers looking to get TV stones from other players. The more PvPers looking for stones in this manner, the less there will be for you. I find this entirely unconcerning because the TV stone system isn't the issue, or even an issue for me. It seems to work just fine. All I'm concerned about is fighting other PvPers, and the TV Stone system neither helps nor harms that goal on its own.

Psilent · September 2015

Teargrants wrote: »

I have just two words to say on the matter:

Gated access.

Did Zenimax ever state why they got rid of gated access and claimable districts? These two things alone would make IC much better!

Zheg · September 2015

Psilent wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

I have just two words to say on the matter:

Gated access.

Did Zenimax ever state why they got rid of gated access and claimable districts? These two things alone would make IC much better!

I think the biggest reason is because IC has to be paid for, and they can barely deal with the problems they currently have much less a huge portion of the playerbase complaining about paying for DLC that they then can't access because their alliance is weaksauce on their particular campaign. If they had released IC back when the game was subscription only like they kept making us believe it would, they would be in an easier position to gate the access. They were either in over their heads, had bad project management, or the more nefarious theory - they delayed the content so they could charge for it.

bosmern_ESO · September 2015

Poxheart wrote: »

It's difficult NOT to PvE in that zone. There are mobs everywhere and even using single target skills you are going to hit mobs because of they get in the way.

100% ^ this

In the districts I think there has been only 1 fight I've had where npcs didnt come and kill my enemy or me, i don't really call that pvp when a NPC is sitting there hitting us for 7-10k damage every light attack.

Etaniel · September 2015

Decrease number of campaigns, increase pop caps, add gated access, make districts capturable, and make insta respawn in the district only possible if you have it captured and the flag isn't under attack, add defense ticks to capturable IC objectives.

Recremen · September 2015

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Poxheart wrote: »

It's difficult NOT to PvE in that zone. There are mobs everywhere and even using single target skills you are going to hit mobs because of they get in the way.

100% ^ this

In the districts I think there has been only 1 fight I've had where npcs didnt come and kill my enemy or me, i don't really call that pvp when a NPC is sitting there hitting us for 7-10k damage every light attack.

I like having some Hostile-To-All NPC's around to spice things up in contrast to overworld Cyro, but yeah the 7-10k light attacks are gross when you're trying to fight other people, never mind the superpowered sweepers roaming the area who take you out in two ticks of their AOE even if you have loads of points in health, spell resistance, etc. It feels like they were expecting large zergs to be duking it out with purges running constantly while Molag Bal has his fist tickling your tonsils and both the other factions are in the same boat. But with pop caps as they are, with a huge number of PvEers taking up population and trying to avoid fights, and with no PvP goals to help coax out the fighting spirit in others, it's a little difficult.

The most PvP I've seen was Zazeer running around in the Arena last night with a giant group, and I think they were fighting a giant blue group or something, or maybe just a few blue puggles trying to do the quest there. Even that looked like it was short lived, nothing like the constant fighting I was hoping for in the IC.

Recremen · September 2015

Etaniel wrote: »

Decrease number of campaigns, increase pop caps, add gated access, make districts capturable, and make insta respawn in the district only possible if you have it captured and the flag isn't under attack, add defense ticks to capturable IC objectives.

All good suggestions, but I was hoping to coordinate some fights until such time as ZOS implements something. I'd ask you to fight me, fight my guild, fight my pig, but it looks like you're on EU servers. :-(