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So the steel tornado zerg meta finally established.. that took a while!
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bosmern_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Or, ya-know. There are stamina and magicka builds in groups now?
Steel tornado spammers have been running since 1.6 came out, this isnt a brand new thing.~Thallen~0 -
Hypertionb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »steel tornado was alway better than impulse, it was the first stamina skill worth anything. always had better damage, always had better radius.
its only now that the sudden rise in Stamina builds and the Nirned Defenses that suddenly the idoit masses realized "wow steel tornado is good" and started using it in droves..
Uhhh... People didn't use it because it was one of the few blockable AoEs so everyone just held block and spammed impulse (which would go through block)
You must've not PvPed much.
its still blockable.. people just cant block like they used to be able to. Steel Tornado has not changed at all really... it was always this good... more easily midigated but still this good..
even then AOE spam groups rarely moved slow enough to block... only when two collided was that ever a issue... so even then Steel Tornado could be a powerful option... the differance was more in the single target meta, where Magicka was so woefully better that nearly no one went stamina to even have steel tornado as an option.
Even before Nirnhoned, it was possible to do better with Steel tornado, but it was so siginificantly less common that only a few people even knew about it. Even at its best, Impulse was dead average on the damage range of steel tornado with much less radius. I know this because i have played literally every iteration of stamina and magicka since the games launch...Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »The 8.7k steel tornados through maim are my favorite. Nerf impulse, magikca too stronk.
While Steel Tornado is very powerful, will no one mention the Bombard + Fear spam?
That stuff's worse than Talons back in its heyday. Hard to see graphic, hard hitting, very large cone area that gets hit, AND frequently employed by NBs who fear spam (off a different resource pool).
Gotta love it!
It's different when DK's dew it, because DK.
I swear there are people whose sole duty it is to spam bombard. Has anyone tried the reduce fear duration from CP? I kinda feel like it would be worthless. Might be better to have X% chance to negate a CC and apply the normal CC immunity after.
like steel tornado, Bombard is a blockable AOE.. in addition if you block the damage, you also block the root... while its area of effect is definitely bigger than Talons or Encase, unlike those options the root is blockable..
Bombard has not changed at all since its 1.0 version much like steel tornado... its just the gameplay meta has shifted from magicka only now... and like mentioned above, people are not blocking like they used to, and other meta has vastly improved the other utility of stamina so we have more people using the already available options..
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Between Steel Tornado and Bombard... neither has changed in terms of their relative potential... the players have.
I play every class in every situation. I love them all.0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »Between Steel Tornado and Bombard... neither has changed in terms of their relative potential... the players have.
It's Impulse that changed, because it's ALSO blockable now, and no point in using one of the weakest AoEs in the game if it no longer has the benefit of going through block.1 -
Oughash✭✭✭✭Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »Between Steel Tornado and Bombard... neither has changed in terms of their relative potential... the players have.
It's Impulse that changed, because it's ALSO blockable now, and no point in using one of the weakest AoEs in the game if it no longer has the benefit of going through block.
Exactly.
Also add in the fact that you can stack more weapon damage than spell damage b/c of itemization (e.g. Ravager, Skimisher, Hundings, etc).1 -
Armitas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »Hypertionb14_ESO wrote: »steel tornado was alway better than impulse, it was the first stamina skill worth anything. always had better damage, always had better radius.
its only now that the sudden rise in Stamina builds and the Nirned Defenses that suddenly the idoit masses realized "wow steel tornado is good" and started using it in droves..
Uhhh... People didn't use it because it was one of the few blockable AoEs so everyone just held block and spammed impulse (which would go through block)
You must've not PvPed much.
its still blockable.. people just cant block like they used to be able to. Steel Tornado has not changed at all really... it was always this good... more easily midigated but still this good..
even then AOE spam groups rarely moved slow enough to block... only when two collided was that ever a issue... so even then Steel Tornado could be a powerful option... the differance was more in the single target meta, where Magicka was so woefully better that nearly no one went stamina to even have steel tornado as an option.
Even before Nirnhoned, it was possible to do better with Steel tornado, but it was so siginificantly less common that only a few people even knew about it. Even at its best, Impulse was dead average on the damage range of steel tornado with much less radius. I know this because i have played literally every iteration of stamina and magicka since the games launch...Agrippa_Invisus wrote: »The 8.7k steel tornados through maim are my favorite. Nerf impulse, magikca too stronk.
While Steel Tornado is very powerful, will no one mention the Bombard + Fear spam?
That stuff's worse than Talons back in its heyday. Hard to see graphic, hard hitting, very large cone area that gets hit, AND frequently employed by NBs who fear spam (off a different resource pool).
Gotta love it!
It's different when DK's dew it, because DK.
I swear there are people whose sole duty it is to spam bombard. Has anyone tried the reduce fear duration from CP? I kinda feel like it would be worthless. Might be better to have X% chance to negate a CC and apply the normal CC immunity after.
like steel tornado, Bombard is a blockable AOE.. in addition if you block the damage, you also block the root... while its area of effect is definitely bigger than Talons or Encase, unlike those options the root is blockable..
Bombard has not changed at all since its 1.0 version much like steel tornado... its just the gameplay meta has shifted from magicka only now... and like mentioned above, people are not blocking like they used to, and other meta has vastly improved the other utility of stamina so we have more people using the already available options..
--
Between Steel Tornado and Bombard... neither has changed in terms of their relative potential... the players have.
Well said.
When it came time to nerf talons and impulse, it made sense at the time. Now it just seems comical in comparison, much like most of 1.6.Retired.
Nord mDK0 -
Varicite✭✭✭✭✭
✭The nerf to Talons radius really doesn't have anything at all to do w/ this thread. <.<0 -
Verdwhisper✭✭✭no matter what skills zos change, it will not alter the fact that zergball is always the best strategy. There is no friendly fire in this game, ppl can just spam aoe and dont care nothing. Not happy? Dont play the game, i know eso could be a great great game in theory, but the truth is we are asking too much from zos. It is just zos, they dont have magic, maybe others have, but they do not.1
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Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lets see.. how many stamina aoes are there? Of course players are going to use steel tornado.1 -
Makkir✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nivzruo_ESO wrote: »Remove Aoes from the game.. they are just a gateway to poorly skilled play anyway. Keep siege as the only form of aoe.
All they need to do is limit the number of AoE abilities that a player can be hit by in any given second to 1. This makes zergball stacking less effective and forces players to actually do focus targetting and use abilities other than AoEing down players like trash mobs.
I have to agree with this. Or maybe something like DR or AOE immunity like CC immunity.1 -
Troneon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's back..PC EU ADMaster Crafter - Anything you need!!High Elf Magicka Templar Healer/DPS/TankTrials / Dungeons / PVP / Everything1 -
MrGrimey✭✭✭✭✭This has nothing to do with steel tornado and everything to do with how powerful and rewarding zerging is with these new damage changes and how there is no diminishing returns for stones lost depending on how many players contribute to your death.
There is no reason to not roll in a Zerg and when in a Zerg, farming mobs and other players, nothing works better than steel tornado for its AOE. But again, this is not a problem with steel tornado1 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
Yep. It won't go away until they change something and they have changed nothing. Steel Tornado is still the best damage AoE bar none.
What has happened is people grew tired of pointing the obvious to ZOS while they sit back and do nothing. There's been numerous threads pointing the imbalance, not a single comment from the dev team anywhere.EU | PC | AD0 -
Sanct16✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭But hey, at least you run out of stamina even faster now if you try to block their steel tornado!- EU - Raid Leader of Banana Zerg Squad
AD | AR 50 | Sanct Fir'eheal | ex Mana DK @31.10.2015
EP | AR 50 | Sanctosaurus | Mana NB
AD | AR 44 | rekt ya | Mana NB
AD | AR 41 | Sanct Thunderstorm | Mana Sorc
EP | AR 36 | S'na'ct | Mana NB {NA}
AD | AR 29 | Captain Full Fist| Stam DK
AD | AR 29 | Sanct The Dark Phoenix| Stam Sorc
EP | AR 16 | Horny Sanct | Stam Warden
EP | AR 16 | Sánct Bánáná Sláyér | Mana DK
DC | AR 13 | ad worst faction eu | Stam Sorc
DC | AR 13 | Lagendary Sanct | Mana NB
>320.000.000 AP1 -
Francescolg✭✭✭✭
Steel Tornado has been around much longer, since the end of 2014. It has been used by every major organized raid and it marks the time, when stamina became way too strong (hidden blade, etc.). This is also the time, where melee-classes got too much goodie, so that their ranged skills outclass other magic-based ranged DD/AE skills (non-sorc, 20k hidden blade on 29 meters, 25k aimed shots, caltrops, etc. etc.).bosmern_ESO wrote: »Steel tornado spammers have been running since 1.6 came out, this isnt a brand new thing.
The 'real' PvPers I know all still say that stamina is... Well' this thread is not about that topic, so I stop arguing here. Sorry about it!
Steel Tornado profits massively from:
- evil hunter procs / undaunted set procs / ravager...
- executioner's 25% more damage
- better itemization, especially weapon dmg sets as already mentioned (2 weapon sets as morag tong or the vr 12 one -> nothing comparable for magicka, before 1.7)
- more weapon dmg (dw)
- less animation issues (feels more responsive than other AEs)
- endless spamability, you even don't need very high stamina regen to spam it
- This list is longer but I don't want to write it all up
Edited by Francescolg on September 7, 2015 3:28PM1 -
Kh0ll✭✭✭✭mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »There's been numerous threads pointing the imbalance, not a single comment from the dev team anywhere.
The development team is an urban legend.Un mauvais sorcier...il voit un truc qui bouge...il tp
Un bon sorcier...il voit un truc qui bouge...bah il tp aussi...
Mais c'est pas pareil, c'est un bon sorcier
"Ca Passe Large" DC
"CPL" EP0 -
Alucardo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Totally unrelated, but does any one know what that addon is called that shows the forts currently ua?0
