Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

One other issue that does need to be considered it camping of the entry gate to IC. (I won't even get into how lame that is to a certain AD emp. and his/her crew.) If your Alliance has access, your alliance should have access, and it's not as if you can exit IC's front door to assist those trying to get in, since it takes you back to the Alliance gate.

While I get the whole immersion of having to physically travel overland to the sewers, it's just not working out in reality. People are preventing folks from accessing the new content with this nonsense. If it were me, I'd put the sewer entrances behind each faction's main Cyrodiil Gate - hell, make it a long tunnel we have to walk through to reach the base, and put skeevers and hoarvors in there or something. Whatever. Just get those entrances somewhere where opposing factions cannot sit there and gank/farm.

Obviously, the easiest solution is simply open up a Wayshrine in the base camp, and let people Wayshrine in. Problem solved.

Robbmrp wrote: »

What these people doing this don't realize or care about is generally you have 0 Tel Var stones....

Last night I was with a small group in the Arboretum District and a large blue group was killing the players coming in there. We had already deposited our Tv Stones so when we dropped down they mowed us over and only gained AP. They continued to farm us as we respawned in that area which wasn't a big deal as there was 0 Tv loss. Large farming groups are really only hurting themselves like this. You get minimal stones and loot the bigger the group.

they arent doing it for stones. they do it to ruin your day.

Starshadw wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

District safe zones work slightly differently - there's an AOE Sanctuary at your alliance Rally Point (the respawn area where the ladder comes out) which is quite small, but works fine; and there's certain places in most districts which have Sanctuary inside them. All of those interior Sanctuaries except one have a separate exit which leads to a Sanctuary-infused balcony, so there's no timed Sanctuary on the entry door.

Then it's a guarantee those doors to the quest locations will be the next spawn location camped by these jerks . Because the same situation applies - you're either zoning in or out, and you are completely vulnerable while doing so.

Incidentally, if there's supposed to be a safe zone at those spawning locations? I'm not sure they are working - I've been killed by AOEs up there.

The loading into the quest locations is "instant" - the only time that passes is the amount of time for the screen to fade out and in again. If you're on the outside trying to get in, you won't be able to open the door until you're out of combat, so those doors can't be camped (the campers will have already revealed themselves when you're trying to reach the door).

The safe zone at the spawning locations is very small - it only really covers the area of the trap door to the Alliance Base.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

One other issue that does need to be considered it camping of the entry gate to IC. (I won't even get into how lame that is to a certain AD emp. and his/her crew.) If your Alliance has access, your alliance should have access, and it's not as if you can exit IC's front door to assist those trying to get in, since it takes you back to the Alliance gate.

I think a simple solution to this would be - if your alliance has Imperial City access, then there should be soldiers of your alliance around your sewer entrance. Enemy players who are camping the entrances would be killed, while enemy players who are just trying to get into the Sewers would still be able to sneak through.

Starshadw wrote: »

The thing that baffles me is we know they can do it because there are already quest areas in IC that are safe zones - all they would need to do would be to make the area immediately around the spawn points safe zones as well.

i gues the problem is that the later can be re-entered without a door etc ad thus abusve during fights near that area.

SeptimusDova wrote: »

Has anyone tried building a wooden Badger yet? It may help

Badgers? Pfft, we need no stinkin Badgers.

Seriously tho, this thread has me laughing while I eat breakfast before work. Dead before you load in? That's some fine game design there guys. Glad PC players get to beta test the DLC.

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Just a thought, and I honestly have no idea whether or not that it could be initiated from a development perspective, but what if, there was a sliding range scale on TV's that you would loose?

So if you were within a 100m radius from your spawn point in the sewers, say, that you would only loose 10% of your stones.

Then have it incrementally increase the further you get away from your "safe" area. IT would increase relatively quickly, as you can't have people safely grinding easy mobs near to their safe zone, it would devalue the whole concept, but it would give genuine, non zerging players a chance to earn TV's and actually experience the IC content down below.

I think the areas above ground, should remain completely open as 80% loss. We all know the risks entailed up there, and it's over ground, so true PVP mentality would rule.

Just a thought *shrugs*

Here's an example I threw together in paint...

That's a neat idea. It may be a bit complicated to implement, though. But maybe the % you lose should increase with your TV multiplier as well? That way, even if you are near your safe zone you would lose more stones the more you have.

The argument against it would be that being close to your home base already gives you extra safety. Yes, there may be zergs, but you also have a number of allies that will come rushing and try to kill the enemy players if they hear they are there.

Enodoc wrote: »

The loading into the quest locations is "instant" - the only time that passes is the amount of time for the screen to fade out and in again. If you're on the outside trying to get in, you won't be able to open the door until you're out of combat, so those doors can't be camped (the campers will have already revealed themselves when you're trying to reach the door).

I'm more concerned about people leaving those locations - there is no buff the minute you get outside the door - and with the way people can use Dark Cloak and Invis pots to essentially maintain permanent invisibility these days, and with the way detect pots work now (which, in general, I'm OK with) - it is entirely possible for someone to sit outside near those doors and not be revealed, and slaughter people as they come out the quest location door.

Enodoc wrote: »

The safe zone at the spawning locations is very small - it only really covers the area of the trap door to the Alliance Base.

This makes more sense, as there are currently players who will aggro the big boss in a location, then train it around another faction's spawn point to troll. Those boss AOEs spawn up top, and that's beyond irritating.

To be quite honest, the design of the upper area leaves much to be desired. Giving all three factions spawn points in all six districts is, once again, encouraging bad behavior. I think it would have been much better to have restricted each faction to two spawn points up above - the two districts closest to their portion of the sewer tunnels. The other four districts would have to be accessed either via the aboveground doors, or via the actual ladders out in the sewers (either way, each faction would have to traverse "enemy" territory" to reach four of the six districts). So long as the Sanctuary buff actually protects people while loading into/out of these doors and ladders/sewers, thus preventing camping of the locations, this would I think be a better design instead of what we have now, which is insta-respawn for all three factions in all six districts.

In fact, I'd liked to have seen something that would have encouraged people to continue to PvP above-ground (which we don't have right now). Gaining Emperorship would give that faction unimpeded, sole access to the IC for a period of, say - one hour. After that, the other two factions can enter and whichever faction has the Emperorship can no longer lock out the other two for a period of, say, 12 hours (or whatever - it might be better if it were shorter, such as 4 hours). If, after that time has passed, neither of the other two factions have taken Emperorship, then once again, the current faction holding Emp gets another hour of sole access (players of the other two factions who are inside the IC or sewers would get a "removing from instance" message and get returned to their base camp, and would be unable to access any of the ladders or their main tunnel entrance. The only door that would work for them would be the one leading back out to Cyrodiil).

This sort of set up would encourage factions to want the Emperorship - because unimpeded access to the IC would let a faction quest, kill bosses, etc. in peace for that hour) - which would thus hopefully encourage people to continue to PvP up in Cyrodiil.

Enodoc wrote: »

I think a simple solution to this would be - if your alliance has Imperial City access, then there should be soldiers of your alliance around your sewer entrance. Enemy players who are camping the entrances would be killed, while enemy players who are just trying to get into the Sewers would still be able to sneak through.

This would be a quick and likely relatively easy fix to implement. Make sure the guards are unkillable, auto-detect all enemy stealthers (no matter what type of stealth they're using) and are insta-death (aka they one-shot players, immediately, no chance of getting away). Put two at the sewer entrance itself, and have 3-4 that patrol nearby (thus hopefully helping to prevent these jerks from simply moving their ganking ten feet away and still accomplishing the same thing they are now, only a little further from the entrance).

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The loading screens we have a fix in the works for next week's patch and should help make that timer on the immunity buff catch up. If it doesn't however, we will look into increasing the time on it.

Oooohhh....did the official ZOS guy just admit that we are beta testers?
2 - 5 min load screens?....now THATS just awesome!

Starshadw wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

The loading into the quest locations is "instant" - the only time that passes is the amount of time for the screen to fade out and in again. If you're on the outside trying to get in, you won't be able to open the door until you're out of combat, so those doors can't be camped (the campers will have already revealed themselves when you're trying to reach the door).

I'm more concerned about people leaving those locations - there is no buff the minute you get outside the door - and with the way people can use Dark Cloak and Invis pots to essentially maintain permanent invisibility these days, and with the way detect pots work now (which, in general, I'm OK with) - it is entirely possible for someone to sit outside near those doors and not be revealed, and slaughter people as they come out the quest location door.

That's what the Safe Exit is for - as I said above, all of these locations (bar one) have a second exit which lead to a safe balcony in the district. From there, you can look around the immediate area, take an educated guess about where people may be hiding, and go a different way.

Starshadw wrote: »

To be quite honest, the design of the upper area leaves much to be desired. Giving all three factions spawn points in all six districts is, once again, encouraging bad behavior. I think it would have been much better to have restricted each faction to two spawn points up above - the two districts closest to their portion of the sewer tunnels. The other four districts would have to be accessed either via the aboveground doors, or via the actual ladders out in the sewers (either way, each faction would have to traverse "enemy" territory" to reach four of the six districts). So long as the Sanctuary buff actually protects people while loading into/out of these doors and ladders/sewers, thus preventing camping of the locations, this would I think be a better design instead of what we have now, which is insta-respawn for all three factions in all six districts.

I think District Control would achieve this. In addition to providing PvP objectives in the districts, if a district is under the control of an alliance, only members of that alliance would be able to use the direct-access ladders and the respawn point there. The alliances who are not in control would have to enter through the main sewers or the other districts, and would be unable to respawn there.

I think the problem with entering the sewers, whether from the entry zone with the vendors/bank or from a hatch in a district, is groups do not port in all together. So you have a group of X enemy players camping the sewers. A group of the same number X enters their home sewers. But instead of a fair XvX battle, the people porting in show up 1 or 2 at a time and are steamrolled by the large enemy group inside. Heck, you are usually dead from stacked AoEs before you can even get your bearings. There needs to be a small safe zone on the opposite side of any loading screen so that groups can wait until everyone has ported in before moving forward.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno Guys, This is a Joke now.

Friday night. Reds are presently camping the DC "Safe Zone". Once you drop off the ledge, you're dead. There is no chance of making it back in, if you've been out.

They've been hanging around there for about 45mins now.

Most people are trying to store 200-300 stones and getting wiped as they get back to base.

The problem with this, is that it then means people rely on a Zerg to clear then, which promotes Zergs.

Please review my suggestion above and do something. It's CRAZY!. And really not in a good way

I LOVE IC...I really do, but I have to say Spawn camping is the bane of any game and will hurt peoples views quicker than you know it.

I know you'll argue "but you need to organize a group and defeat them".

Well, get your rear ends onto the live server, and come and actually ORGANIZE A GROUP!. A PUG, of people who are woefully under skilled compared to a group used to PVP, running around, organised on TS.

Not a chance!

Enodoc wrote: »

That's what the Safe Exit is for - as I said above, all of these locations (bar one) have a second exit which lead to a safe balcony in the district. From there, you can look around the immediate area, take an educated guess about where people may be hiding, and go a different way.

Unless there's something preventing the little DK and NB exploits we've been seeing in Cyrodiil for months (which lets those two classes get inside keeps that are not yet taken, and with no walls down), I'd be willing to bet those balconies are nowhere near as safe as you think they are.

Not to mention, as someone later pointed out in this thread - people will simply camp the area below, and slaughter people the minute they drop off the ledge.

Dagoth_Rac wrote:

I think the problem with entering the sewers, whether from the entry zone with the vendors/bank or from a hatch in a district, is groups do not port in all together. So you have a group of X enemy players camping the sewers. A group of the same number X enters their home sewers. But instead of a fair XvX battle, the people porting in show up 1 or 2 at a time and are steamrolled by the large enemy group inside. Heck, you are usually dead from stacked AoEs before you can even get your bearings. There needs to be a small safe zone on the opposite side of any loading screen so that groups can wait until everyone has ported in before moving forward.

THIS. This, this, this. And this is exactly why I don't believe a timed immunity buff is the answer, and that these areas need AOE protection. Even if ZOS gets the loading screen issue resolved, people still have different loading times - thus leaving everyone zoning in vulnerable because they are alone or with few people as their timer runs out but they stay and wait for the rest of their party.

Also? We should be able to sneak in and out of these doors. Coming out of those loading screens with no sanctuary buff and in full view is like painting yourself neon pink and screaming "I'M HERE, I'M HERE!"

gilbegger wrote: »

You PC people should be ashamed of yourselves...

There is no way this would happen on PS4 or Xbox...

No way..

lol we havent had ic yet, but now we know its possible.....

The only solution is the most simple. Turn off open pvp. Problem solved. No small group killing everything in sight (sometimes before you can even load in) and no cheating. Why did they think it would be different in this game than any other game with open pvp? Again more cluelessness from ZOS dev team. I dont know if they were so naive they thought people would play relatively nice or just incompetent.