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Sorcerers are being punished for using Bolt Escape

coyteriarwb17_ESO
It's not fair that the one ability that was useful is now going to become useless and be a part of rune prison status. We are being punished for using that ability but why can't night blades be punished for using invisible or teleport strike? ZOS please give us a valid reason why Bolt Escape, key word escape, is becoming an ability that punishes the use of it?
  • Lorkhan
    Lorkhan
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    lol
  • BalticBlues
    BalticBlues
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    My daugther loved her Sorc. Bolt Escape was her best escape against hidden NB attacks.
    Now, she gave up. She is just starting with a new NB too.

    In the end, there probably will only be NBs in the game...
  • contact.opiumb16_ESO
    My daugther loved her Sorc. Bolt Escape was her best escape against hidden NB attacks.
    Now, she gave up. She is just starting with a new NB too.

    In the end, there probably will only be NBs in the game...

    ... until the Hammer Of Godly Nerf hits hard ;)
  • Septimus_Magna
    Septimus_Magna
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    My daugther loved her Sorc. Bolt Escape was her best escape against hidden NB attacks.
    Now, she gave up. She is just starting with a new NB too.

    In the end, there probably will only be NBs in the game...

    NB is a lot harder to play than a sorc, they're usually very squishy and need to rely on Cloak to survive. In the IC streets bolt escape should still be useful because you can use structures to go out of the line of sight of your enemies to avoid getting hit. In open fields it will be impossible to escape though.

    Daedric Mines are also very useful in close quarter fights in combination with line of sight.
    Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
    Magna Firebreath - Dunmer Dragon Knight
    Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
    Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
    Septimus Rulanir - Altmer Templar
    Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
  • KleanZlate
    KleanZlate
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    I don't know how often I've seen sorcs "escape" into a group of enemies to stun them only to "escape" through them again while team mates go on the attack. And now you're saying they can "only" use this "escape" ability 2 or 3 times? Oh, the injustice! Give them wings and a flamethrower before angels start falling from the sky.
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    KleanZlate wrote: »
    I don't know how often I've seen sorcs "escape" into a group of enemies to stun them only to "escape" through them again while team mates go on the attack. And now you're saying they can "only" use this "escape" ability 2 or 3 times? Oh, the injustice! Give them wings and a flamethrower before angels start falling from the sky.

    You mean like Templars spam Blazing Spear from a safe distance to do a much longer and unblockable stun? Or NB pop in with fear->proxy->soul tether and then either dodge roll or teleport their way out? Oh the injustice!

    I'd like my wings and flame throwers now please!
    EU | PC | AD
  • KleanZlate
    KleanZlate
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    KleanZlate wrote: »
    I don't know how often I've seen sorcs "escape" into a group of enemies to stun them only to "escape" through them again while team mates go on the attack. And now you're saying they can "only" use this "escape" ability 2 or 3 times? Oh, the injustice! Give them wings and a flamethrower before angels start falling from the sky.

    You mean like Templars spam Blazing Spear from a safe distance to do a much longer and unblockable stun? Or NB pop in with fear->proxy->soul tether and then either dodge roll or teleport their way out? Oh the injustice!

    I'd like my wings and flame throwers now please!

    Didn't you get the memo? Dodge roll has also been nerfed. I'm not saying they should take Bolt escape away. Just make it so it can't be used to travel beyond the horizon and back in one sitting.
    Edited by KleanZlate on September 1, 2015 2:20PM
  • Junglejim82
    Junglejim82
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    Looks like everyone has forgot stamina NBS exist . We just got our ish pushed in ffs
    Jungleim
    Stamblade extrordinaire (for now)
    Mass Terror /elders of anarchy ps4 e.u
    Daggerfalls finest

    Always looking for serious pvpers not afraid to mic up. See below
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  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    KleanZlate wrote: »
    KleanZlate wrote: »
    I don't know how often I've seen sorcs "escape" into a group of enemies to stun them only to "escape" through them again while team mates go on the attack. And now you're saying they can "only" use this "escape" ability 2 or 3 times? Oh, the injustice! Give them wings and a flamethrower before angels start falling from the sky.

    You mean like Templars spam Blazing Spear from a safe distance to do a much longer and unblockable stun? Or NB pop in with fear->proxy->soul tether and then either dodge roll or teleport their way out? Oh the injustice!

    I'd like my wings and flame throwers now please!

    Didn't you get the memo? Dodge roll has also been nerfed. I'm not saying they should take Bolt escape away. Just make it so it can't be used to travel beyond the horizon and back in one sitting.

    They can still teleport out. And anyway, I have no issues with not being able to travel beyond the horizon. But I do have a problem with not being able to make use of it offensively because of the increasing costs.

    It's currently the only AoE attack or CC ability in the game that increases in cost. And it's the only AoE ability the Sorc class has. Do Bombard or Steel Tornado increase in cost with every cast?

    My proposal was to make it that if you hit someone, the cost increase resets. So if you're in the fight it's all good, but if you're streaking away (therefore not hitting anyone), it should start rapidly increasing in cost. Unfortunately it fell on deaf ears.
    EU | PC | AD
  • Armitas
    Armitas
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    You can still move forward with the W key. If you have forgotten where it is, it's right between the Q and E key.
    Edited by Armitas on September 1, 2015 3:10PM
    Retired.
    Nord mDK
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    Armitas wrote: »
    You can still move forward with the W key. If you have forgotten where it is, it's right between the Q and E key.

    Wrong thread, or....?
    EU | PC | AD
  • KleanZlate
    KleanZlate
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    KleanZlate wrote: »
    KleanZlate wrote: »
    I don't know how often I've seen sorcs "escape" into a group of enemies to stun them only to "escape" through them again while team mates go on the attack. And now you're saying they can "only" use this "escape" ability 2 or 3 times? Oh, the injustice! Give them wings and a flamethrower before angels start falling from the sky.

    You mean like Templars spam Blazing Spear from a safe distance to do a much longer and unblockable stun? Or NB pop in with fear->proxy->soul tether and then either dodge roll or teleport their way out? Oh the injustice!

    I'd like my wings and flame throwers now please!

    Didn't you get the memo? Dodge roll has also been nerfed. I'm not saying they should take Bolt escape away. Just make it so it can't be used to travel beyond the horizon and back in one sitting.

    They can still teleport out. And anyway, I have no issues with not being able to travel beyond the horizon. But I do have a problem with not being able to make use of it offensively because of the increasing costs.

    It's currently the only AoE attack or CC ability in the game that increases in cost. And it's the only AoE ability the Sorc class has. Do Bombard or Steel Tornado increase in cost with every cast?

    My proposal was to make it that if you hit someone, the cost increase resets. So if you're in the fight it's all good, but if you're streaking away (therefore not hitting anyone), it should start rapidly increasing in cost. Unfortunately it fell on deaf ears.

    It's an AoE AND a CC and it's a class ability. You could make a stam sorc that has both bombard and steel tornado.
  • trimsic_ESO
    trimsic_ESO
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    The combat system of ESO, which is based on resource management with no CD, has reached some limits.

    Most, if not all, the MMOs I've played had a CD on every escape / gap closer ability. And to be honest, this makes sense. In ESO, there is no CD, so the only way to make sure people will not abuse escape / gap closer abilities is to increase their cost when they spam them.

    Then the question is: which system is the more fun? The one in ESO with no CD but with extra resource costs when you spam some abilities, or the one in other games where there are CDs along with constant resource costs?

    My personal answer is the system of other games with CDs, because then you have to use your slotted abilities strategically at the right time. With ESO, people still can spam their abilities with the right spec and gear, leading to a situation where there will always be one skill that will be spammed since it's just a bit better than every other skills, until it gets nerfed and another skill becomes the new champion in our arsenal.

    Millenium - Daggerfall Covenant Europe - FR
    VR14 R31 Stamina DK - melee DPS / support
    Guild Leader Millenium TESO
  • Xeven
    Xeven
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    KleanZlate wrote: »
    KleanZlate wrote: »
    I don't know how often I've seen sorcs "escape" into a group of enemies to stun them only to "escape" through them again while team mates go on the attack. And now you're saying they can "only" use this "escape" ability 2 or 3 times? Oh, the injustice! Give them wings and a flamethrower before angels start falling from the sky.

    You mean like Templars spam Blazing Spear from a safe distance to do a much longer and unblockable stun? Or NB pop in with fear->proxy->soul tether and then either dodge roll or teleport their way out? Oh the injustice!

    I'd like my wings and flame throwers now please!

    Didn't you get the memo? Dodge roll has also been nerfed. I'm not saying they should take Bolt escape away. Just make it so it can't be used to travel beyond the horizon and back in one sitting.

    They can still teleport out. And anyway, I have no issues with not being able to travel beyond the horizon. But I do have a problem with not being able to make use of it offensively because of the increasing costs.

    It's currently the only AoE attack or CC ability in the game that increases in cost. And it's the only AoE ability the Sorc class has. Do Bombard or Steel Tornado increase in cost with every cast?

    My proposal was to make it that if you hit someone, the cost increase resets. So if you're in the fight it's all good, but if you're streaking away (therefore not hitting anyone), it should start rapidly increasing in cost. Unfortunately it fell on deaf ears.

    Agreed.
  • Garion
    Garion
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    Frankly I would rather they significantly increase the range (50m) and then introduce a CD - 4 seconds. This will make it not far off from where it is now (because you can still use it three times) but it stops me from *** myself over by using it several times out of habit and also means it keeps its viability as an escape. Anyone can easily keep up with a bolt escaping sorc across three uses (if they have half a brain). One huge teleport would be significant enough for us to have some room to escape but still allows us to he caught a determined chaser (I.e try hard).

    Of course this would need a lot of tweaking. There are lots of other alternatives too, Maulkin has highlighted one of them. My point is that there are more imaginative ways this skill could have been brought into balance without completing ruining it as they have done with this change. It is far too heavy handed and just a lazy way of changing something to appease QQers. But hey, no surprises there... The combat team are clearly inept.
    Lastobeth - VR16 Sorc - PvP Rank 41 (AD)
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    Member of Banana Squad | Officer of Arena
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    KleanZlate wrote: »
    KleanZlate wrote: »
    KleanZlate wrote: »
    I don't know how often I've seen sorcs "escape" into a group of enemies to stun them only to "escape" through them again while team mates go on the attack. And now you're saying they can "only" use this "escape" ability 2 or 3 times? Oh, the injustice! Give them wings and a flamethrower before angels start falling from the sky.

    You mean like Templars spam Blazing Spear from a safe distance to do a much longer and unblockable stun? Or NB pop in with fear->proxy->soul tether and then either dodge roll or teleport their way out? Oh the injustice!

    I'd like my wings and flame throwers now please!

    Didn't you get the memo? Dodge roll has also been nerfed. I'm not saying they should take Bolt escape away. Just make it so it can't be used to travel beyond the horizon and back in one sitting.

    They can still teleport out. And anyway, I have no issues with not being able to travel beyond the horizon. But I do have a problem with not being able to make use of it offensively because of the increasing costs.

    It's currently the only AoE attack or CC ability in the game that increases in cost. And it's the only AoE ability the Sorc class has. Do Bombard or Steel Tornado increase in cost with every cast?

    My proposal was to make it that if you hit someone, the cost increase resets. So if you're in the fight it's all good, but if you're streaking away (therefore not hitting anyone), it should start rapidly increasing in cost. Unfortunately it fell on deaf ears.

    It's an AoE AND a CC and it's a class ability. You could make a stam sorc that has both bombard and steel tornado.

    Lol. So the answer is if you want AoE & CC forget about Streak but go stamina? Thanks for the advice captain!

    With that logic, I want Talons which is another class AoE & CC to also get increasing cost per cast. I don't see why that's a problem since if DKs want AoE & CC they can go stamina and use Bombard?

    Same applies to Templars and Blazing Spear. Forget that, let's all go Bombard for AoE & CC and nothing else. if KleanZlate says it's good for the game, he must be right


    Edited by Maulkin on September 1, 2015 4:11PM
    EU | PC | AD
  • KleanZlate
    KleanZlate
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    KleanZlate wrote: »
    KleanZlate wrote: »
    KleanZlate wrote: »
    I don't know how often I've seen sorcs "escape" into a group of enemies to stun them only to "escape" through them again while team mates go on the attack. And now you're saying they can "only" use this "escape" ability 2 or 3 times? Oh, the injustice! Give them wings and a flamethrower before angels start falling from the sky.

    You mean like Templars spam Blazing Spear from a safe distance to do a much longer and unblockable stun? Or NB pop in with fear->proxy->soul tether and then either dodge roll or teleport their way out? Oh the injustice!

    I'd like my wings and flame throwers now please!

    Didn't you get the memo? Dodge roll has also been nerfed. I'm not saying they should take Bolt escape away. Just make it so it can't be used to travel beyond the horizon and back in one sitting.

    They can still teleport out. And anyway, I have no issues with not being able to travel beyond the horizon. But I do have a problem with not being able to make use of it offensively because of the increasing costs.

    It's currently the only AoE attack or CC ability in the game that increases in cost. And it's the only AoE ability the Sorc class has. Do Bombard or Steel Tornado increase in cost with every cast?

    My proposal was to make it that if you hit someone, the cost increase resets. So if you're in the fight it's all good, but if you're streaking away (therefore not hitting anyone), it should start rapidly increasing in cost. Unfortunately it fell on deaf ears.

    It's an AoE AND a CC and it's a class ability. You could make a stam sorc that has both bombard and steel tornado.

    Lol. So the answer is if you want AoE & CC forget about Streak but go stamina? Thanks for the advice captain!

    With that logic, I want Talons which is another class AoE & CC to also get increasing cost per cast. I don't see why that's a problem since if DKs want AoE & CC they can go stamina and use Bombard?

    Same applies to Templars and Blazing Spear. Forget that, let's all go Bombard for AoE & CC and nothing else. if KleanZlate says it's good for the game, he must be right


    LOL at this point I'm going to raise my hand and admit being totally biased as an almost 100% dedicated NB that has never played a sorc over lvl 10. I can only judge the ability by how it hits me on the battlefield and I HATE it with a vengeance. For sake of being fair I'll roll a sorc and see how this ability is working out. I'll be in touch in a month or two ;)

    Edit: I wouldn't mind a nerf to those other CC abilities you mentioned since, as you may notice, they don't belong to the NB class. Wonder why that is.
    Edited by KleanZlate on September 1, 2015 4:35PM
  • Maulkin
    Maulkin
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    The combat system of ESO, which is based on resource management with no CD, has reached some limits.

    Most, if not all, the MMOs I've played had a CD on every escape / gap closer ability. And to be honest, this makes sense. In ESO, there is no CD, so the only way to make sure people will not abuse escape / gap closer abilities is to increase their cost when they spam them.

    Then the question is: which system is the more fun? The one in ESO with no CD but with extra resource costs when you spam some abilities, or the one in other games where there are CDs along with constant resource costs?

    My personal answer is the system of other games with CDs, because then you have to use your slotted abilities strategically at the right time. With ESO, people still can spam their abilities with the right spec and gear, leading to a situation where there will always be one skill that will be spammed since it's just a bit better than every other skills, until it gets nerfed and another skill becomes the new champion in our arsenal.

    Yes and no. I agree the best skills will get used a lot more, spammed at times, without a doubt. You need to creatively adjust the costs to prevent that. However, I also find games with CDs a) very saturated and b) unnecessarily complex without that implying skill.

    By saturated, I mean that almost every other MMO is like that. It's boring and unoriginal

    By unnecessarily complex, I mean that you have like 24 skills on your screen and half have CDs and you need to have keys associated with those and you need to keep eyes on 5-6 CDs on your bar at a time. And I'm somehow supposed to believe that this makes for more skillful play.

    ESO might have a limited number of skills on your bar and buttons and no cooldowns (well until now). But you still couldn't kill one player applying just one skill, could you? You never kill anyone by just Streaking back and forth over them. As a Sorc, I use a combination of Curse, Fury, Frags, Streak and Dawnbreaker to down an enemy. You time your burst with your CC.

    The game can be skillful without being over-complicated. In fact I thought ESO in 1.5 before Champion System had a very right balance of cost per skill use. But this went out the window with 1.6 and now they are trying (in a bad way) to reintroduce some real costs but they are only doing it to Bolt, Block and Dodge. Everything else is still 100% spammable which makes it a mess.
    Edited by Maulkin on September 1, 2015 5:13PM
    EU | PC | AD
  • Cathexis
    Cathexis
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    Anhedonie wrote: »
    for abusing bolt escape*

    I don't see how any skill is abused any more than any other skill when all skills in the game are spammable.

    Stam sorcs don't abuse bolt escape, because we can't cast it more than twice in a row before waiting for a regen tick. Guess we should be punished too?
    O.o
  • Lucky28
    Lucky28
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    They should un-nerf it. it's inconvenient, it's a stun and AOE in this patch. Damage is so pitiful that you can leisurely walk away from an enemy player, i know, i've been doing it all night eventually they give up and go away. :D
    Edited by Lucky28 on September 3, 2015 12:27PM
    Invictus
  • Merlin13KAGL
    Merlin13KAGL
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    I see BE and rune prison both in use.

    You do have to adjust the way you use it now, or you really have to determine if it's worth using it multiple times in short succession.

    If you weren't cascading it before (using it offensively, for instance), it's likely not a problem now. If you're strictly using it to bail out, then the cost is supposed to hurt.

    This coming from a Sorc who's been my main since the beginning of time.
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
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