NBs can no longer sustain.

briandivisionb16_ESO · August 2015

Hi

I played a nightblade and a DK on the PTS and have since made myself a v14 DK on live.
Because of dodgeroll changes they can't sustain in PvP so well. I don't actually care though because my DK is tanky as hell and his damage is only slightly lower.

However, thought I would share this insight:
I think maybe you should definitely let NBs keep dark cloak besides all the 'nerf cloak' cries. :P I think even detect pots are harsh, and should have a counter.

NBs damage is OK. Sustain is not. At all.
Happy hunting! ^^

ItsMeToo · August 2015

Invis pots should counter Detect pots, but they don't.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO · August 2015

ItsMeToo wrote: »

Invis pots should counter Detect pots, but they don't.

I know right

silky_soft · August 2015

As stam nb I have 300cp with 2400 regen on PTS and It's still not able to sustain more than 2 rotations without a templar or engine gaurdian. I would barely keep up with my 200cp and 2100 regen from live.

If they don't want to make shield critable, make a pot. You don't come up against a cloak spammer everytime, just like you don't come up to a shield spammer everytime. But then again last time they made a pot (AP pots) they don't work.

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

Dodge roll change's are not that bad in my mind, just slot Mist Form and your dodge roll will reset by the time Mist form channel is over. If you have some magicka cost reduce and recovery you can mist form pretty frequently with dodge roll's in between.

I haven't played on pts and i hope stamina nightblade is still okay.

MrGrimey · August 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Dodge roll change's are not that bad in my mind, just slot Mist Form and your dodge roll will reset by the time Mist form channel is over. If you have some magicka cost reduce and recovery you can mist form pretty frequently with dodge roll's in between.

I haven't played on pts and i hope stamina nightblade is still okay.

Not just dodge roll nerf, NB Stam passive was reduced in half

GreenSoup2HoT · August 2015

MrGrimey wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Dodge roll change's are not that bad in my mind, just slot Mist Form and your dodge roll will reset by the time Mist form channel is over. If you have some magicka cost reduce and recovery you can mist form pretty frequently with dodge roll's in between.

I haven't played on pts and i hope stamina nightblade is still okay.

Not just dodge roll nerf, NB Stam passive was reduced in half

In return for 15% more magicka and health recovery though. It's a win for my build since i can perma-cloak as a stamina nightblade in live.

KenaPKK · August 2015

briandivisionb16_ESO wrote: »

Hi
I played a nightblade and a DK on the PTS and have since made myself a v14 DK on live.
Because of dodgeroll changes they can't sustain in PvP so well. I don't actually care though because my DK is tanky as hell and his damage is only slightly lower.

However, thought I would share this insight:
I think maybe you should definitely let NBs keep dark cloak besides all the 'nerf cloak' cries. :P I think even detect pots are harsh, and should have a counter.

NBs damage is OK. Sustain is not. At all.
Happy hunting! ^^

Detect pots are an abomination. They are equivalent to a potion making all nearby allies' damage bypass all shields, or one making all nearby enemies incapable of healing. A potion negating a crucial class mechanic is just bad design.

I am a Nightblade main, and I think they are both too tanky and too good at burst healing themselves on live. These should be toned down, but their evasiveness needs to remain high... Between the ubiquitous Caltrops and other AoEs + marks out there, Cloak is already difficult enough to use as an escape mechanic. With force miss being removed when under vision, it's becoming even worse... Magicka NBs will become extremely difficult to do anything with other than Cloak around watching things from a distance if ZoS has their way...

BuggeX · August 2015

Im not playing a NB, but wath about Shiponing Attacks?
There is your Sustain,

laksikus · August 2015

not when the new patch comes.
Siphoning attacks wont be a toogle any more. but only a 20sec buff. will be pretty useless i think^^

BuggeX · August 2015

laksikus wrote: »

not when the new patch comes.
Siphoning attacks wont be a toogle any more. but only a 20sec buff. will be pretty useless i think^^

because it will be a 20 sec buff it will be uselles?

Stop using any Buff then

hrothbern · August 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

not when the new patch comes.
Siphoning attacks wont be a toogle any more. but only a 20sec buff. will be pretty useless i think^^

because it will be a 20 sec buff it will be uselles?

Stop using any Buff then

it is a 15 second buff that will cost Magicka
and the return is heavily nerfed, no longer % on stat, but a fixed value

laksikus · August 2015

even worse than i remembered it^^

BuggeX · August 2015

hrothbern wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

not when the new patch comes.
Siphoning attacks wont be a toogle any more. but only a 20sec buff. will be pretty useless i think^^

because it will be a 20 sec buff it will be uselles?

Stop using any Buff then

it is a 15 second buff that will cost Magicka
and the return is heavily nerfed, no longer % on stat, but a fixed value

and how much is it?

hrothbern · August 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

not when the new patch comes.
Siphoning attacks wont be a toogle any more. but only a 20sec buff. will be pretty useless i think^^

because it will be a 20 sec buff it will be uselles?

Stop using any Buff then

it is a 15 second buff that will cost Magicka
and the return is heavily nerfed, no longer % on stat, but a fixed value

and how much is it?

Naked the Magicka Costs are: 1923 Mag
The returns from a weapon attack, light or heavy are: 958 Mag & Stam per attack
The returns from a ability are: 192 Mag & Stam per hit (in fact 10% on 1916)

BuggeX · August 2015

hrothbern wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

not when the new patch comes.
Siphoning attacks wont be a toogle any more. but only a 20sec buff. will be pretty useless i think^^

because it will be a 20 sec buff it will be uselles?

Stop using any Buff then

it is a 15 second buff that will cost Magicka
and the return is heavily nerfed, no longer % on stat, but a fixed value

and how much is it?

Naked the Magicka Costs are: 1923 Mag
The returns from a weapon attack, light or heavy are: 958 Mag & Stam per attack
The returns from a ability are: 192 Mag & Stam per hit (in fact 10% on 1916)

and you say this is nerfed...oh Boy..........

hrothbern · August 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

not when the new patch comes.
Siphoning attacks wont be a toogle any more. but only a 20sec buff. will be pretty useless i think^^

because it will be a 20 sec buff it will be uselles?

Stop using any Buff then

it is a 15 second buff that will cost Magicka
and the return is heavily nerfed, no longer % on stat, but a fixed value

and how much is it?

Naked the Magicka Costs are: 1923 Mag
The returns from a weapon attack, light or heavy are: 958 Mag & Stam per attack
The returns from a ability are: 192 Mag & Stam per hit (in fact 10% on 1916)

and you say this is nerfed...oh Boy..........

Yep,

with 1.5% on stat reurn with for example 30k Mag, the return was 450 per ability use, instead of 192 MINUS the costs and the time loss of activating buff.
against one add the costs are now 67% of the return...

BuggeX · August 2015

but it still recover Close to 1k per light attack, this is a hug buff compared to %

Tdroid · August 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

but it still recover Close to 1k per light attack, this is a hug buff compared to %

With my current setup, assuming nothing with that significantly changes(haven't seen anything to that effect in the patch notes), combined with the cost reduction to class stamina skills, Siphoning Attacks will let me use Surpirse Attack pretty much forever, since 1 light attack will return pretty much the full cost of SA that way.

hrothbern · August 2015

BuggeX wrote: »

but it still recover Close to 1k per light attack, this is a hug buff compared to %

oops
I forgot to mention that in live, you get 3% of Stat on a light or Heavy attack on top !!

BuggeX · August 2015

hrothbern wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

BuggeX wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

not when the new patch comes.
Siphoning attacks wont be a toogle any more. but only a 20sec buff. will be pretty useless i think^^

because it will be a 20 sec buff it will be uselles?

Stop using any Buff then

it is a 15 second buff that will cost Magicka
and the return is heavily nerfed, no longer % on stat, but a fixed value

and how much is it?

Naked the Magicka Costs are: 1923 Mag
The returns from a weapon attack, light or heavy are: 958 Mag & Stam per attack
The returns from a ability are: 192 Mag & Stam per hit (in fact 10% on 1916)

So this is now 1.6 or 1.7?

Right now(1.6), ist recover 3% each hit and with a proc Change (dont know the value) to recover additional 15%.
also reduce you own spell and weap power by 20%

2.1

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Siphoning Strikes: •This ability is no longer a toggle.
•Removed the Power and Spell Power debuff; your attacks now do full damage.
•This ability no longer restores a percentage of your Magicka or Stamina. Instead, it restores a fixed amount per hit.
•You will no longer build up extra visual effects on your weapon when this ability is cast multiple times.

2.1.1

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Siphoning •Increased the duration of Siphoning Strikes and Siphoning Attacks to 15 seconds from 10 seconds.
•Leeching Strikes (Siphoning Strikes morph): This ability is now a toggle once more, and reduces weapon and spell power while active.

So two changes for this ability.
Shiponing does not have anymore the debuff for dmg, sry i see just a buff there

Ryuho · August 2015

briandivisionb16_ESO wrote: »

Hi
I played a nightblade and a DK on the PTS and have since made myself a v14 DK on live.
Because of dodgeroll changes they can't sustain in PvP so well. I don't actually care though because my DK is tanky as hell and his damage is only slightly lower.

However, thought I would share this insight:
I think maybe you should definitely let NBs keep dark cloak besides all the 'nerf cloak' cries. :P I think even detect pots are harsh, and should have a counter.

NBs damage is OK. Sustain is not. At all.
Happy hunting! ^^

Well true, but nbs need to change their playstyle a bit, evry1 need to adjust to changes.. no more permadodge rolling, lets dodge roll from chalman to bkr, why not?? NO and NO.. Nb needs to time vry well dodge roll/cloak, its more about personal skill than perma roll ambush and fear combo.. which is good, and as u wrote nb dmg will be still great.. I think investing in magicka regen could help stamina nbs - more cloak = less dodge rolls..

As for DKs, they will be beasts imo, stamina DK is so crazy stronk on PTS, me like that.. But i am sorry for magicka DKs, they need some love like temps..

Sentinel · August 2015

I adjusted my playstyle on my NB to include more heavy attacks along with Siphoning attacks. Given I had 990 stamina regen and had enough stam to break free and dodge roll constantly, I think I did pretty well for sustain. The 2h passive follow up allowed me room to make the heavy attacks into a burst combo.

Robbmrp · August 2015

briandivisionb16_ESO wrote: »

Hi
I played a nightblade and a DK on the PTS and have since made myself a v14 DK on live.
Because of dodgeroll changes they can't sustain in PvP so well. I don't actually care though because my DK is tanky as hell and his damage is only slightly lower.

However, thought I would share this insight:
I think maybe you should definitely let NBs keep dark cloak besides all the 'nerf cloak' cries. :P I think even detect pots are harsh, and should have a counter.

NBs damage is OK. Sustain is not. At all.
Happy hunting! ^^

Good. NB's can now die as much as my Templar..... DOH!

F7sus4 · September 2015

TLDR, but I guess you're talking about Stamina, since with Magicka build it's possible to gain more resources than you spend. I'd give a 4th Siphoning skill a go, however.

Junkogen · September 2015

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Dodge roll change's are not that bad in my mind, just slot Mist Form and your dodge roll will reset by the time Mist form channel is over. If you have some magicka cost reduce and recovery you can mist form pretty frequently with dodge roll's in between.

I haven't played on pts and i hope stamina nightblade is still okay.

That's not right that would force players to be vamps to be competitive. Something's got to be done, unless their goal is to eradicate stamina builds.

Cathexis · September 2015

Infinite sustain builds shouldn't be a thing. It's fundamentally a good thing that if you blow your load repeatedly you should have some down time.

It's resource management, not an fps.

GreenSoup2HoT · September 2015

Junkogen wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Dodge roll change's are not that bad in my mind, just slot Mist Form and your dodge roll will reset by the time Mist form channel is over. If you have some magicka cost reduce and recovery you can mist form pretty frequently with dodge roll's in between.

I haven't played on pts and i hope stamina nightblade is still okay.

That's not right that would force players to be vamps to be competitive. Something's got to be done, unless their goal is to eradicate stamina builds.

You could run shadowwalker and sacrifice a little bit of damage for cost reduction and magicka recovery mindus stone. That way you can cloak to gain 1k stam a second.

I agree. This nerf need's to be looked at. Unless they expect stamina builds to block more i dunno.

Alucardo · September 2015

Cathexis wrote: »

Infinite sustain builds shouldn't be a thing. It's fundamentally a good thing that if you blow your load repeatedly you should have some down time.

Ever seen two magicka nightblades fight each other? Yeah, they can go forever with the right setup. I'm not even joking. Went from a lumbermill fight into a 30 minute duel. Nighblades have a few ways to siphon health, they also have (what I believe) is one of the longest CCs in the game, and then some others. Use these CCs enough and your target will run out of stamina to break free.. I found this pretty easy to achieve since the update. This gives you ample time to lodge a couple of heavy attacks and receive back a fair bit of magicka to restart the entire process again. It wasn't easy, but it is possible to sustain yourself indefinitely in small scale fights. This was as a magicka build.. I can't really comment on stamina unfortunately.

contact.opiumb16_ESO · September 2015

after 2 nights of test in IC, i can say that NB are still very strong, but more in line with the other classes. 2 shot builds do not work anymore, and it's a good thing. I had great time "duelling" in IC streets with a yellow NB. We really saw the difference between NB and templar : the NB came on me, burst, disappeared, while the templar style "self heal + spear harrass + beam + holy fireballs". They both worked, the NB killed me several times and i killed him too a few time.This NB is a stam base, i know him well because he 2-3 shoted me a lot in 1.6 pvp. Now we can have a fair fight. Sure he killed me more than i killed him but he have a better stuff + lots of CP, so, in numbers he is supposed to be stronger than me.

Sorcerers in the other hand are still OP, because shield stacking + tp spam (yes, it still can be spam).