For the record, I L2P and just avoid these people as there is hardly any method to get them to drop their block. sure cc would work, but cc immunity kicks in and you get very little time to do extremely high damage to try to kill them before it wore off or before they break it and go back to blocking.

Heavy armor stam dk is the way to go, stack stamina, wep dmg and spam puncture for 5k+

Probably because of insane amount of champion points as well.

Troneon wrote: »

Probably because of insane amount of champion points as well.

Nope. You can't blame CP for everything. People ask me all the time how many CP I have but I only have 60. I runna basic tank build with 5 piece crafted heavy armor set combined with a separate 4 piece crafted heavy set(including the sword and shield), all the DK buffs, VR7, I eat blue VR5 food and drink regular enemy dropped elixirs, all my skill points are in stam, all my armor has health glyphs. I can literally hold off multiple VR14 guys for a minute or two if necessary so my sorc and NB buddies can get to me and destroy them. I was in the top 20 on my campaign before the weekend hit, then I didn't hand much time to play and dropped to 40 or something.

The trick is doing damage while defending yourself, not easily done. I can take on one guy of equal level with a very good chance of victory, or I can take several lower level guys by running them out of resources then switching to my dps bar and going ham. My best tactic is to tank the enemy and let my buds clean them up.

I dont anticipate PVP to be much effected by the nurf to stam regen. I can CC the enemy putting them on the defense and wack them with a heavy blow while my greenbdragons blood and redguard racial passives refill my stam.

PVE will be greatly effected. I'll make sure the DPS guys I run with are not scrubs cause I don't want the fights to last forever if I'm going to run out of stam at some point (which was happening already before the nurf with weak DPS and long boss fights).

I don't see very many tanks on the battkefield. And we don't have a good escape plan so once we engage its kinda a done deal one way or the other. I don't see how someone can complain about a few tanks perma blocking when there are so much bigger issues. How about fixing cold fire siege; that hidden aoe I's BS. There is way more spam abuse of snipe, radiant destruction, and crystal frags than there is of DK permablocking. But personally I think they all should be left alone, except that pesky cold fire siege, I hate that darn thing.

I'm pretty sure these permablockers use magicka as their attack, if they are using stamina for dps then they obviously can't permablock.

stamina builds really got slapped in the face

robkrush wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Probably because of insane amount of champion points as well.

SNIP

@robkrush
Basically I am saying having insane amount of CP makes a huge difference and solves a lot of the issues with perma block nerf. Some of the buffs are insanely good with enough CP...I am not saying ITS ALL CP's FAULT!1!!!

Do not put words in my mouth. A lot of other things go into it.

BUT....All from champion points and this is not even all of them...if someone has a lot of champion points it makes a MASSIVE DIFFERENCE, I don't give a crap what anyone says they are talking BS if they can't see it.

These are just the ones off the top of my head for just surviving and around stamina/blocking/tanky stuff, it's not even all the CP buffs and effects available, not even the magicka ones...only some...if you want perma block knight CP makes it very possible....never mind food, potions, gear, set bonuses etc etc etc.

Reduce cost of breakfree and blocking/dodging...
Reduce costs of stamina abilities...
Reduce costs of bash attacks...
Increase stamina, health and magicka regen...
Reduce stamina costs of abilities by 80% for 8 seconds when you break free from CC
Increased amount of resources from heavy attacks
Increased armor / spell resists
Set enemies off balance when you dodge roll an attack
15% chance to return damage to attacker when blocking melee attack
Increase healing effects done to you..
Large amounts of resources back when you kill an enemy..
2 Ultimate everytime you use a synergy..
Increased movement speed and health regen while sprinting
Reduced duration of CC on you..
Reduced damage done to you after dodge roll...
Reduced stamina cost of moving..
20% chance to restore health when bashing
Reduce amount of damage taken from critical hits...
Increased armor and spell resistance of shields by 75%..
Gain armor and spell resistance after dodging
When blocking gain a damage shield every 10 seconds...
Reduced damage from DOT effects
Reduced damage from elemental effects
Reduced poison, decease and magic damage
Restore health when critically hit
Restore health when you do a physical critical hit, repeat every 5 secs
Increase effectiveness of damage absorbing effects
Absorb damage after drinking a potion...

And it goes on and on and on....anyone who says champion points don't make a huge difference is talking complete and utter BS.

Some of these buffs can be triggered over and over with the right skills and gear bonus sets...all you have to do is grind a crap load of exp and unlock most of them....which the grinders have already done...

@Alcast @nobertpaulb16_ESO

OGLezard wrote: »

....So I am seeing the same permablockers still with INSANE damage output(well known permablock stupid high dps people)...... I thought this meta was going bye bye? Someone care to enlighten me as to how this is still possible..... for the record, the three were Dks. I know they have passives that give back stamina and all that jazz, I know how the class operates. I thought they were trying to do away with this silly stuff. I watched one of the three permablockderps kill 9 people yesterday lol never let go of block....... was funny to watch.

What did you expect? People aren't just blocking with stamina; they're supporting their blocking with magicka.

Valn wrote: »

I'm pretty sure these permablockers use magicka as their attack, if they are using stamina for dps then they obviously can't permablock.

stamina builds really got slapped in the face

Combined with champion points (this is not a complaint, just an observation), armor/food/and other buffs, and magicka, permablocking is still a reality, which means Zenimax's goal of ending permablocking failed.

And it should have failed, because it's really, really bad game design. The result isn't fights with more skills. The result is, actually, easier fights because players (not permablockers) won't be able to block - and so they'll use (magicka) shields - if they have them or not block at all.

I can't help but feel that Zeni gave this idea little to no thought at all and that the design meeting to determine how to stop permablocking went something like this:

[Several Zenimax game designers sitting around a conference room table.]

Designer 1: Well, we're meeting today to find an effective way to stop permablocking in PVP -

Designer 2: Hey, if we just stop stamina regeneration while a player is blocking, they'll use up all their stamina in seconds and then won't be able to block at all!

Designer 3: Problem solved! Where's the donuts?

That's about how much thought I feel went into this decision.

The problem with zero stamina regeneration while blocking is that it only eliminates blocking, it eliminates every other stamina-based skill or evasion technique including dodge rolling and everything else. It's the gaming equivalent of cutting off your entire leg because you sprained your ankle.

It's also a problem because ESO's combat system was designed around effective blocking (not permablocking, but effective blocking). When I first started - which wasn't that long ago - the first piece of advice I got from a friend was "Learn to block or you will die." Now what I'm hearing on chat is "Don't bother blocking, it's a waste of stamina."

Which then leads to easier fights because people won't be blocking as much.

I agree something needs to be done about permablocking. Make shields break. Give people a recoil if they're hit with enough damage, so they drop their shield/stop blocking. Even increasing the cost of blocking is better than zero stamina regeneration.

That's desperation, not game design.

robkrush wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Probably because of insane amount of champion points as well.

SNIP

@robkrush
Basically I am saying having insane amount of CP makes a huge difference and solves a lot of the issues with perma block nerf. Some of the buffs are insanely good with enough CP...I am not saying ITS ALL CP's FAULT!1!!!

Do not put words in my mouth. A lot of other things go into it.

BUT....All from champion points and this is not even all of them...if someone has a lot of champion points it makes a MASSIVE DIFFERENCE, I don't give a crap what anyone says they are talking BS if they can't see it.

These are just the ones off the top of my head for just surviving and around stamina/blocking/tanky stuff, it's not even all the CP buffs and effects available, not even the magicka ones...only some...if you want perma block knight CP makes it very possible....never mind food, potions, gear, set bonuses etc etc etc.

@Alcast @nobertpaulb16_ESO

I agree that high CP makes guys stronger I just think everyone that assumes anyony who kills them myst have high CPCP is just being a sore looser. Your not going to be able to kill everyone bro. There is always going to be someone better. I don't sweat it when I get rolled by a stronger guy I just avoid him or team up with some buds and kick his butt.

I don't care about dying, was merely replying to the dude and saying that if these guys were perma blocking and still using older builds effectively even with the new nerfs and changes, then a large part of it was probably due to having a few hundred or even 1000+ champion points and the fact they are dedicated pvpers in a coordinated group.

Whether that's a good thing or not I let others decide, I just don't like when people try to ignore the CP issue as if it is not there and try to brush it under the rug claiming they only blame CP because of #lackofskillzbro #yamadbro #yourtearsbro #l2pbro

CP balance is a major problem that is not going away, is it the blame for everything? No, and no one is saying that...

robkrush wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Probably because of insane amount of champion points as well.

SNIP

@robkrush
Basically I am saying having insane amount of CP makes a huge difference and solves a lot of the issues with perma block nerf. Some of the buffs are insanely good with enough CP...I am not saying ITS ALL CP's FAULT!1!!!

Do not put words in my mouth. A lot of other things go into it.

BUT....All from champion points and this is not even all of them...if someone has a lot of champion points it makes a MASSIVE DIFFERENCE, I don't give a crap what anyone says they are talking BS if they can't see it.

These are just the ones off the top of my head for just surviving and around stamina/blocking/tanky stuff, it's not even all the CP buffs and effects available, not even the magicka ones...only some...if you want perma block knight CP makes it very possible....never mind food, potions, gear, set bonuses etc etc etc.

@Alcast @nobertpaulb16_ESO

I agree that high CP makes guys stronger I just think everyone that assumes anyony who kills them myst have high CPCP is just being a sore looser. Your not going to be able to kill everyone bro. There is always going to be someone better. I don't sweat it when I get rolled by a stronger guy I just avoid him or team up with some buds and kick his butt.

I don't care about dying, was merely replying to the dude and saying that if these guys were perma blocking and still using older builds effectively even with the new nerfs and changes, then a large part of it was probably due to having a few hundred or even 1000+ champion points and the fact they are dedicated pvpers in a coordinated group.

Do you hear yourself? You are trying to justify your failure against a successful and skilled opponent by saying they have 1000's of CP points . Lololol. You must be trolling me. Not everyone has hundreds and especially not thousands of CP. L2P.

If that's all you took what from I said then you lack the ability to understand in the first place and I will not continue to waste my time...you seem to like putting words in others mouths claiming they say one thing, when they say nothing of the sort...if that is the only basis of your argument...well then you already failed and I believe you are the one who is trolling now after losing the debate. Fyi the failure and topic was not mine, it was the OP's, I simply joined the discussion, I have not even managed to get past the que in IC yet, never mind get killed by anyone...

Have a nice day.

OGLezard wrote: »

....So I am seeing the same permablockers still with INSANE damage output(well known permablock stupid high dps people)...... I thought this meta was going bye bye? Someone care to enlighten me as to how this is still possible..... for the record, the three were Dks. I know they have passives that give back stamina and all that jazz, I know how the class operates. I thought they were trying to do away with this silly stuff. I watched one of the three permablockderps kill 9 people yesterday lol never let go of block....... was funny to watch.

Just holding block should cost you 25% of your STA then you can only block 4 times, this would fix this HEINOUS problem. PLEAS FIX ZOS.

Troneon wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

robkrush wrote: »

Troneon wrote: »

Probably because of insane amount of champion points as well.

SNIP

@robkrush
Basically I am saying having insane amount of CP makes a huge difference and solves a lot of the issues with perma block nerf. Some of the buffs are insanely good with enough CP...I am not saying ITS ALL CP's FAULT!1!!!

Do not put words in my mouth. A lot of other things go into it.

BUT....All from champion points and this is not even all of them...if someone has a lot of champion points it makes a MASSIVE DIFFERENCE, I don't give a crap what anyone says they are talking BS if they can't see it.

These are just the ones off the top of my head for just surviving and around stamina/blocking/tanky stuff, it's not even all the CP buffs and effects available, not even the magicka ones...only some...if you want perma block knight CP makes it very possible....never mind food, potions, gear, set bonuses etc etc etc.

@Alcast @nobertpaulb16_ESO

I agree that high CP makes guys stronger I just think everyone that assumes anyony who kills them myst have high CPCP is just being a sore looser. Your not going to be able to kill everyone bro. There is always going to be someone better. I don't sweat it when I get rolled by a stronger guy I just avoid him or team up with some buds and kick his butt.

I don't care about dying, was merely replying to the dude and saying that if these guys were perma blocking and still using older builds effectively even with the new nerfs and changes, then a large part of it was probably due to having a few hundred or even 1000+ champion points and the fact they are dedicated pvpers in a coordinated group.

Do you hear yourself? You are trying to justify your failure against a successful and skilled opponent by saying they have 1000's of CP points . Lololol. You must be trolling me. Not everyone has hundreds and especially not thousands of CP. L2P.

If that's all you took what from I said then you lack the ability to understand in the first place and I will not continue to waste my time...you seem to like putting words in others mouths claiming they say one thing, when they say nothing of the sort...if that is the only basis of your argument...well then you already failed and I believe you are the one who is trolling now after losing the debate. Fyi the failure and topic was not mine, it was the OP's, I simply joined the discussion, I have not even managed to get past the que in IC yet, never mind get killed by anyone...

Have a nice day.

Edited for ZOS.

templesus wrote: »

Mey Magicka Templar and cousins Magicka Dk roll through people all the time and hes only vet 11. Just recently we killed about 7 AD all sitting outside our gate on our own piece of cake.

They prolly all assumed you have 1000 CP. LOL.

willymchilybily wrote: »

EnOeZ wrote: »

But understand that the TTK (time to kill) is now longer, it of course better for sword and board and less aggressive / more defensive and balanced builds (compared to 1.6 that was very very favorable to burst builds).

^^ this

it isn't often said directly but the whole reduce healing/shields/damage in pvp is actually a buff for any sustain PVP builds and therefore in many ways a DK buff (imo) as well as nerf to NB/sorc high one shot high burst builds that have little to no sustain.

be interested to know what classes made up the 9 of you? got a video by chance?

@willymchilybily as I just stated, I was not in the fight but a silent observer watching it happen. As you can see from my second post, I l2p by not fighting those people as long drawn out fights are as boring if not more boring than 1 second deaths

OGLezard wrote: »

....So I am seeing the same permablockers still with INSANE damage output(well known permablock stupid high dps people)...... I thought this meta was going bye bye? Someone care to enlighten me as to how this is still possible..... for the record, the three were Dks. I know they have passives that give back stamina and all that jazz, I know how the class operates. I thought they were trying to do away with this silly stuff. I watched one of the three permablockderps kill 9 people yesterday lol never let go of block....... was funny to watch.

i put 75 cps in reduce block cost and with the fix on nirm, i find myself tanking bether in pvp than before, but pve is other story.

OGLezard wrote: »

Personofsecrets wrote: »

deal with it

you really never add anything to any thread you post in lol some you do, but most the time it is very very little :P keep it up

Not being able to combat blockers, especially post nerf, is a learn to play issue.