how come tanks have to heavy attack to manage resources but healers and dps dont?

Wing · September 2015

title.

well?

MissBizz · September 2015

I'm a healer mainly (do have a tank as well) and I find I need to be extra vigiliant on my healer to keep using heavy attacks to recover magicka. I most definitely need to.

HebrewHatchet · September 2015

Same here. When I heal, I use a resto staff and heavy attack often to manage my magicka.

UrQuan · September 2015

Um, what? When I'm healing I'm always throwing in heavy resto staff attacks regularly to keep my magicka up. Actually, the same goes for when I DPS (although to a lesser extent).

usmcjdking · September 2015

This thread sucks because all classes will launch heavy attacks.

The difference is that the tank is the one getting facerolled by the boss trying to get in a heavy attack while the DPS and Healers can fall asleep at the keyboard clicking down on LMB and then wake up with full mana.

UrQuan · September 2015

usmcjdking wrote: »

This thread sucks because all classes will launch heavy attacks.

The difference is that the tank is the one getting facerolled by the boss trying to get in a heavy attack while the DPS and Healers can fall asleep at the keyboard clicking down on LMB and then wake up with full mana.

So I take it you've never healed or DPSed? Granted, I find tanking to be the more challenging of the 3 roles (and, as a result, more fun), but if your healers and DPS are doing that, you're going to wipe. Healing has its own set of challenges, and you need to be on your game to be good at it. The same goes for DPS.

ObsidianMichi · September 2015

All weapons have a heavy attack. Stamina weapons return stamina. Magicka weapons return magicka. DPS and Healers ostensibly use weapons, therefore they can use heavy attacks. If there's one thing I hate in dungeons, it's how many of the players I end up pugging with don't intersperse those heavy attacks into their rotations or do them at all. (Like the DPS that bring no add cleanup aoe on their alt bar, this is not a game where the tank is given the means to hold all the aggro. Hats off to the tanks that can, because it's hard.)

The short answer is that yes, you can use them. However, if you've got to match the weapon to the kind of resources that you want returned.

UrQuan · September 2015

ObsidianMichi wrote: »

If there's one thing I hate in dungeons, it's how many of the players I end up pugging with don't intersperse those heavy attacks into their rotations or do them at all.

I've got a word for those players: bad. Seriously, if you're a healer or a DPS (or a tank) and you're not interspersing heavy attacks, you're bad at your job. Maybe it's purely out of ignorance, in which case all you should need is someone to tell you that you should be doing this, and you'll quickly become better at your job.

Anhedonie · September 2015

I have to use heavy attacks, otherwise my templar will run out of resources, because...*** resource managment.

redspecter23 · September 2015

My magicka templar can solo nearly any batch of mobs by stabbing it. I can block nearly anything I want and just get the stamina back with repentence. If magicka ever becomes an issue (which is rare),I can drop a circle down to regen faster. There are even champion point passives that give me back magicka just by doing the things I'm normally doing.

I feel really bad for stamina builds right now. Bring your repentence bot or stand in the corner.

Personofsecrets · September 2015

waiting for an official zos answer

riverdragon72 · September 2015

Personofsecrets wrote: »

waiting for an official zos answer

lol yeah right, the schizo nature of nerfs/"buffs" this game goes through patch to patch is nauseating, some of us don't get a lot of time to play and it takes a lot of work to get a character worked out, then we get f*ucked patch to patch.

Avenias · September 2015

Because Erik wrobel does not play a tank. So too bad. Next time u build a toon, make sure u contact erik wrobel and ask for his permission on what is allowed to be built, that way u can be sure he will not nerf u to the ground.

dday3six · September 2015

I start weaving heavy attacks in as soon I think my stamina is too low.

Troneon · September 2015

MissBizz wrote: »

I'm a healer mainly (do have a tank as well) and I find I need to be extra vigiliant on my healer to keep using heavy attacks to recover magicka. I most definitely need to.

This ^^

Even with Seducers + Warlocks bonus sets and champion points+ food+ potions you still need to use heavy attacks to keep up your magicka in long fights or certain boss fights.

So yeah even a healing templar needs to use heavy attacks for magicka...especially with all the damage reduction nerfs, healing nerfs and other nerfs this patch.

You make it sound like healers and dps don't have to work as hard, I know your pissed about tank changes and I agree their stupid but don't take it out on dps and healers....

You have no idea how many times I have had to carry pugs through dungeons because the tank sucked or dps sucked as a healer...or worse, the healer sucked so I had to switch from dps role to off healer in middle of dungeon...

Shimmer · September 2015

Wing wrote: »

title.

well?

Im a healer. ( have a tank too) Always heavy attacking to restore mana.. I try and help where I can with repentance to restore stamina to the group.

nine9six · September 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Um, what? When I'm healing I'm always throwing in heavy resto staff attacks regularly to keep my magicka up. Actually, the same goes for when I DPS (although to a lesser extent).

QTF.

nordsavage · September 2015

My healer and sorcerer builds have significant cost reduction, fair magicka regen and rarely need to use heavy attacks. My stamina dps has high health and never runs out of stamina for the same reason of cost reduction and fair regen. Using potions you should not really run out of resources too fast. The exception is tanking ZOS seems to want to make that a chore that is basically keeping the gas tank filled and by time you do a full swing for a heavy swing you have been hit by the faster attacking enemy or have to cancel because it is time to block again.

Thymos · September 2015

MissBizz wrote: »

I'm a healer mainly (do have a tank as well) and I find I need to be extra vigiliant on my healer to keep using heavy attacks to recover magicka. I most definitely need to.

That's the truth for my healer. Even on my stamina NB, I need to do some heavy attacks in the middle of active abilities.

firstdecan · September 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

This thread sucks because all classes will launch heavy attacks.

The difference is that the tank is the one getting facerolled by the boss trying to get in a heavy attack while the DPS and Healers can fall asleep at the keyboard clicking down on LMB and then wake up with full mana.

So I take it you've never healed or DPSed? Granted, I find tanking to be the more challenging of the 3 roles (and, as a result, more fun), but if your healers and DPS are doing that, you're going to wipe. Healing has its own set of challenges, and you need to be on your game to be good at it. The same goes for DPS.

I think the original response was a bit of hyperbole. If someone can fall asleep and wake up in the course of performing a heavy attack, they've probably got more than a touch of sleep apnea. Might be time to cut eso+ from the budget and look into c-pap machines.

usmcjdking · September 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

This thread sucks because all classes will launch heavy attacks.

The difference is that the tank is the one getting facerolled by the boss trying to get in a heavy attack while the DPS and Healers can fall asleep at the keyboard clicking down on LMB and then wake up with full mana.

So I take it you've never healed or DPSed? Granted, I find tanking to be the more challenging of the 3 roles (and, as a result, more fun), but if your healers and DPS are doing that, you're going to wipe. Healing has its own set of challenges, and you need to be on your game to be good at it. The same goes for DPS.

wut

You act like it's hard for the non-tank to get an easy heavy attack relatively safely and with little threat to the team with the exception of the tank.

Step 1: Wait for big boss AOE.
Step 2: Spammy Healz
Step 3: Hold down left mouse button.
Step 4: Fall asleep. Let other party members keep themselves alive.
Step 5: Return to step 1.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO · September 2015

i have a healing line, a melee DPS line, a caster DPS line, and a tank line.... they all require heavy attack for resource management. the one that has it the easiest so far is melee DPS in PVE, but he still does it. this is all on my DK.....

Wing · September 2015

this is crazy, so everyone was already throwing in heavy attacks to manage resources?

but everyone said people are just standing there holding block, which is it?

UrQuan · September 2015

Wing wrote: »

this is crazy, so everyone was already throwing in heavy attacks to manage resources?

but everyone said people are just standing there holding block, which is it?

People who were bad at their roles were just standing there holding block. People who knew what they were doing were always throwing in heavy attacks to manage their resources.

ahstin2001nub18_ESO · September 2015

Wing wrote: »

this is crazy, so everyone was already throwing in heavy attacks to manage resources?

but everyone said people are just standing there holding block, which is it?

idiots called out idiots for being idiotic.... thats what really happened just a bunch of finger pointing and a terrible solution from ZoS. honestly, i didn't know people even did that until the block nerf came on PTS lol.

asteldian · September 2015

I am genuinely surprised by how many claim they always throw in heavy attacks. My magicka dps never throws in heavy attacks (just as well since I use DW), our healers rarely use heavy attacks as the time is better spent using damage skills if heals are not needed. My stamina dps was a bit more intensive, though being a Redguard helped.
I would say tanks now are the most dependant on heavy attacks while also being in the most dangerous situation to do so which is unfortunate. That said, only Templars really have an issue, the other classes have better ways of getting stamina back.

Winterpsy · September 2015

UrQuan wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

this is crazy, so everyone was already throwing in heavy attacks to manage resources?

but everyone said people are just standing there holding block, which is it?

People who were bad at their roles were just standing there holding block. People who knew what they were doing were always throwing in heavy attacks to manage their resources.

The more proper definition here: many tanks are holding only the block.
And many tanks using heavy attacks too.
Dont let the word "everyone" mislead you. It's just the exaggeration of players.

There are certain places where using heavy attacks are difficult, or using any attacks at all. It's when enemies constantly battering on the shield one after the other, with no break in between their attacks, and lowering the defense would cause severe injuries.
There are not so many places like that.

My experience when others are tanking, they are rarely just standing there with the shield up.

Junipus · September 2015

If you're a healer or dps doing heavy attacks to restore magicka then you're doing something wrong, or running with people standing in stupid.

Any good healer should be running repentence, spears and elemental drain as standard. Just those 3 abilities will make sure that the tank or dps never run out of resources as well as the healer without having to do heavy attacks.

Of course, good dps and healers should be weaving heavy or light attacks in their rotation as standard to get an extra 2-3k dps.

As for tanks, with the latest patch they'll need to rely more on spears and repentence but since most are DKs, they can also manage with battle roar as well.

Basically, if you're heavy attacking to get resources back, you're not working effectively as a group

leepalmer95 · September 2015

usmcjdking wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

This thread sucks because all classes will launch heavy attacks.

The difference is that the tank is the one getting facerolled by the boss trying to get in a heavy attack while the DPS and Healers can fall asleep at the keyboard clicking down on LMB and then wake up with full mana.

So I take it you've never healed or DPSed? Granted, I find tanking to be the more challenging of the 3 roles (and, as a result, more fun), but if your healers and DPS are doing that, you're going to wipe. Healing has its own set of challenges, and you need to be on your game to be good at it. The same goes for DPS.

wut

You act like it's hard for the non-tank to get an easy heavy attack relatively safely and with little threat to the team with the exception of the tank.

Step 1: Wait for big boss AOE.
Step 2: Spammy Healz
Step 3: Hold down left mouse button.
Step 4: Fall asleep. Let other party members keep themselves alive.
Step 5: Return to step 1.

you should try doing the end game dungeons first, wayrest sewers on normal doesn't exactly count as hard.

leepalmer95 · September 2015

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

If you're a healer or dps doing heavy attacks to restore magicka then you're doing something wrong, or running with people standing in stupid.

Any good healer should be running repentence, spears and elemental drain as standard. Just those 3 abilities will make sure that the tank or dps never run out of resources as well as the healer without having to do heavy attacks.

Of course, good dps and healers should be weaving heavy or light attacks in their rotation as standard to get an extra 2-3k dps.

As for tanks, with the latest patch they'll need to rely more on spears and repentence but since most are DKs, they can also manage with battle roar as well.

Basically, if you're heavy attacking to get resources back, you're not working effectively as a group

You mean medium weave right? provides much more dps than a heavy or light.

Junipus · September 2015

Medium weave is a little more advanced, but yes. However some rotations work better from light attacks which are also viable, especially those lucky enough to get the molag kena shoulders already