Has ZOS completely broken stamina for tanks?

Hope499 · September 2015

Yes

Love to see some of the "No" votes state some reasons.....

Vaelen · September 2015

Yes

ZOS: NO VOTE
Reasoning: Doesn't listen to the majority of players.

Wing · September 2015

Yes

oh yeah, most "tanks" wear dresses now.

Vaelen · September 2015

Yes

Wing wrote: »

oh yeah, most "tanks" wear dresses now.

Harry Potter tanks FTW again! ...err actually FTL....

corrosivechains · September 2015

Yes

am curious to see some of the no votes

Skiserony · September 2015

No

I had no issues tanking the 3 daedroth actually. Had a lot of hoT's running and been throwing a lot of heavy attacks but it was no issue. Kind of fun actually.

UrQuan · September 2015

CP5 wrote: »

Tanks standing their ground? Bad for the health of the game.

Tanks running around to yakety sax? Best day ever.

Oh man, if I was designing dungeons I'd make one with a boss fight where there's a stage that forces everyone to run around to avoid something (or maybe chase something), and during that stage of the fight all of a sudden yakety sax would start playing...

Maybe it's a good thing I'm not designing the dungeons.

UrQuan · September 2015

I'm leaning towards a no vote on this based on the somewhat limited amount of tanking I did on PTS. I found it took a little bit of getting used to, but as long as I remembered to only block when I really needed to, it wasn't bad. I don't think I'll have any trouble adjusting.

I'm holding off on voting until I've had a chance to run a bunch of vet dungeons on live, though, because I may change my mind with more experience.

Dyride · September 2015

No

I'm having a lot more trouble on my Stamplar in a tanking spec, but it is still doable. I do have to throw down Radiant Ward and heavy attack a lot more. I think magicka Healer Tanks will be better off.

My tank has so far evolved a lot more into a turtle whereas before I was a DPS tank.

Templars are definitely the weakest tanking class now because our Stamina return ability requires bodies (Repentence) and we lack AOE CC.

I guess Nightblade tanks are also lacking in the CC department but Siphoning Attacks seems to be returning suitable amounts of resources.

CP5 · September 2015

Yes

UrQuan wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Tanks standing their ground? Bad for the health of the game.

Tanks running around to yakety sax? Best day ever.

Oh man, if I was designing dungeons I'd make one with a boss fight where there's a stage that forces everyone to run around to avoid something (or maybe chase something), and during that stage of the fight all of a sudden yakety sax would start playing...

Maybe it's a good thing I'm not designing the dungeons.

Don't know, that could be fun.

Van_0S · September 2015

Yes

Skiserony wrote: »

I had no issues tanking the 3 daedroth actually. Had a lot of hoT's running and been throwing a lot of heavy attacks but it was no issue. Kind of fun actually.

How about your CPs, try not using them while testing then you will see the difference.

Vaelen · September 2015

Yes

Skiserony wrote: »

I had no issues tanking the 3 daedroth actually. Had a lot of hoT's running and been throwing a lot of heavy attacks but it was no issue. Kind of fun actually.

Cool story bro, now go tank 4 axes in AA or go tank the final boss of VDSA and get back with us... You'll see what I mean.

Etaniel · September 2015

No

Valn wrote: »

Just did the daily gold as a tank where you have to keep the 3 daedroths alive, oh my god what a nightmare. Before it was a bit of a challenge, but now 80% of the time I was running in circles because I had no stamina, and you can't block them when you don't have stamina, also you can't taunt them when you don't have stamina, therefore I was forced to run around in circles like a bloody chicken, waiting for my taunt to become active again.

I'm a full stamina tank as well, and now you've buggered my tanking! You should rename tanking to "Green bar watching simulator"

Lmao, I just tanked it, with regular pvp dk gear, and had zero problem. Regular vet dungeons are still super easy even with the stamina nerf. L2P

UrQuan · September 2015

Dyride wrote: »

I'm having a lot more trouble on my Stamplar in a tanking spec, but it is still doable. I do have to throw down Radiant Ward and heavy attack a lot more. I think magicka Healer Tanks will be better off.

My tank has so far evolved a lot more into a turtle whereas before I was a DPS tank.

Templars are definitely the weakest tanking class now because our Stamina return ability requires bodies (Repentence) and we lack AOE CC.

Hmm, this post made me think about possible reasons for why I didn't find tanking on PTS to be that much more difficult. My character I was tanking with was a templar, who relies far more on magicka skills than stamina skills (just about the only things I ever use stamina for on him are Pierce Armour, Heroic Slash, blocking, and occasionally dodge-rolling), and to boot he's also a Redguard, so he's got a built-in stamina recovery system. Maybe he's not the best character for me to use to judge the changes to stamina and tanking.

Nifty2g · September 2015

Yes

Etaniel wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Just did the daily gold as a tank where you have to keep the 3 daedroths alive, oh my god what a nightmare. Before it was a bit of a challenge, but now 80% of the time I was running in circles because I had no stamina, and you can't block them when you don't have stamina, also you can't taunt them when you don't have stamina, therefore I was forced to run around in circles like a bloody chicken, waiting for my taunt to become active again.

I'm a full stamina tank as well, and now you've buggered my tanking! You should rename tanking to "Green bar watching simulator"

Lmao, I just tanked it, with regular pvp dk gear, and had zero problem. Regular vet dungeons are still super easy even with the stamina nerf. L2P

Tank a trial then say l2p

Valn · September 2015

Yes

Etaniel wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Just did the daily gold as a tank where you have to keep the 3 daedroths alive, oh my god what a nightmare. Before it was a bit of a challenge, but now 80% of the time I was running in circles because I had no stamina, and you can't block them when you don't have stamina, also you can't taunt them when you don't have stamina, therefore I was forced to run around in circles like a bloody chicken, waiting for my taunt to become active again.

I'm a full stamina tank as well, and now you've buggered my tanking! You should rename tanking to "Green bar watching simulator"

Lmao, I just tanked it, with regular pvp dk gear, and had zero problem. Regular vet dungeons are still super easy even with the stamina nerf. L2P

are you full stamina spec? what gear sets are you using? also your champion points?

Scyantific · September 2015

Dyride wrote: »

I'm having a lot more trouble on my Stamplar in a tanking spec, but it is still doable. I do have to throw down Radiant Ward and heavy attack a lot more. I think magicka Healer Tanks will be better off.

My tank has so far evolved a lot more into a turtle whereas before I was a DPS tank.

Templars are definitely the weakest tanking class now because our Stamina return ability requires bodies (Repentence) and we lack AOE CC.

I guess Nightblade tanks are also lacking in the CC department but Siphoning Attacks seems to be returning suitable amounts of resources.

Look at this wrong opinion right here. Siphoning Strikes never needed a change and now it costs a more magicka that what it returns, and for what? 15 meager seconds of fixed number returns.

hrothbern · September 2015

In my opinion tanking is not completely broken
but severily damaged, especially at lower CP level
let alone new characters, no alts!!!, that have no CP from their account comrades, strugling in PVE

As a NB Siphoning Tank... and yes... Siphoning Attacks was nerfed as well !
I need another 4 months or so, or 120 CP, to get the 300 CP, that I need to overcome 80% of the nerf.
100 CP in reduction blocking costs, 100 CP in more Magicka available, to be able to use the now expensive buff at little return of Stamina, so desperately needed for Block, rolldodge and Break Free
Plus I need to improve my play level.

And for people that think about tanking as a 1vs1 issue, and have an instant opinion about it, just try out in practice having the agro of a Mob directed at you with every so many tenth of a second a hit.

I am afraid that this decision is rooted in people that are in end game or in "hit & run" fun.
But this is a very harsh way to take too much fun away in a too big step.

Irathray · September 2015

Yes

*sighs*

And just when I was really starting to enjoy my stamina build. I had never been able to solo dolmens before, and even though it was tough, I was still able to survive. It might not seem like much of an accomplishment to anyone else, but it was to me! Especially since this is on my first DK.

Ah, well. It was a good dream while it lasted.

Now to figure out how to fix this mess.

Etaniel · September 2015

No

Valn wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Just did the daily gold as a tank where you have to keep the 3 daedroths alive, oh my god what a nightmare. Before it was a bit of a challenge, but now 80% of the time I was running in circles because I had no stamina, and you can't block them when you don't have stamina, also you can't taunt them when you don't have stamina, therefore I was forced to run around in circles like a bloody chicken, waiting for my taunt to become active again.

I'm a full stamina tank as well, and now you've buggered my tanking! You should rename tanking to "Green bar watching simulator"

Lmao, I just tanked it, with regular pvp dk gear, and had zero problem. Regular vet dungeons are still super easy even with the stamina nerf. L2P

are you full stamina spec? what gear sets are you using? also your champion points?

Full PvP specced, only 16k stamina. only CP I have is stam reg, which is useless here, and yet I had no issue.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Just did the daily gold as a tank where you have to keep the 3 daedroths alive, oh my god what a nightmare. Before it was a bit of a challenge, but now 80% of the time I was running in circles because I had no stamina, and you can't block them when you don't have stamina, also you can't taunt them when you don't have stamina, therefore I was forced to run around in circles like a bloody chicken, waiting for my taunt to become active again.

I'm a full stamina tank as well, and now you've buggered my tanking! You should rename tanking to "Green bar watching simulator"

Lmao, I just tanked it, with regular pvp dk gear, and had zero problem. Regular vet dungeons are still super easy even with the stamina nerf. L2P

Tank a trial then say l2p

People here are complaining about tanking pledges. I don't know about trials, but pledges are super easy

Nifty2g · September 2015

Yes

Etaniel wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Just did the daily gold as a tank where you have to keep the 3 daedroths alive, oh my god what a nightmare. Before it was a bit of a challenge, but now 80% of the time I was running in circles because I had no stamina, and you can't block them when you don't have stamina, also you can't taunt them when you don't have stamina, therefore I was forced to run around in circles like a bloody chicken, waiting for my taunt to become active again.

I'm a full stamina tank as well, and now you've buggered my tanking! You should rename tanking to "Green bar watching simulator"

Lmao, I just tanked it, with regular pvp dk gear, and had zero problem. Regular vet dungeons are still super easy even with the stamina nerf. L2P

are you full stamina spec? what gear sets are you using? also your champion points?

Full PvP specced, only 16k stamina. only CP I have is stam reg, which is useless here, and yet I had no issue.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Etaniel wrote: »

Valn wrote: »

Just did the daily gold as a tank where you have to keep the 3 daedroths alive, oh my god what a nightmare. Before it was a bit of a challenge, but now 80% of the time I was running in circles because I had no stamina, and you can't block them when you don't have stamina, also you can't taunt them when you don't have stamina, therefore I was forced to run around in circles like a bloody chicken, waiting for my taunt to become active again.

I'm a full stamina tank as well, and now you've buggered my tanking! You should rename tanking to "Green bar watching simulator"

Lmao, I just tanked it, with regular pvp dk gear, and had zero problem. Regular vet dungeons are still super easy even with the stamina nerf. L2P

Tank a trial then say l2p

People here are complaining about tanking pledges. I don't know about trials, but pledges are super easy

Pledges have always been easy, but honestly you and I probably play with *top tier* players that have been playing since beta or something. I believe this change is a very bad change for the more casual type players who want to just do something for fun, it's going to be tough on them. Everyone should have the chance of getting onto the weekly boards, and at least be able to complete a pledge. This change is very unnecessary to affect PvE in such a negative way.

Just mah thoughts

failkiwib16_ESO · September 2015

No

UrQuan wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Tanks standing their ground? Bad for the health of the game.

Tanks running around to yakety sax? Best day ever.

Oh man, if I was designing dungeons I'd make one with a boss fight where there's a stage that forces everyone to run around to avoid something (or maybe chase something), and during that stage of the fight all of a sudden yakety sax would start playing...

Maybe it's a good thing I'm not designing the dungeons.

Dear UrQuan

Veteran Crypt of Hearts second boss will spawn a large red aoe circle that will stalk a random player, and the player will be forced to run half a circle in the room to avoid it. - endboss is where the tank usually runs around with 4 adds stabbing his back, meanwhile he tries to get near the teleporting boss to range taunt him - at the same time as the boss starts throwing AoE circles around, so the whole team is forced to run around like headless chickens.

Veteran Fungal Grotto second boss will bind two players with a blue thread, if they don't run away from eachother like crazy, they will die. Forth boss will spawn a beam that will chase a random player, and that player have to run around to avoid the beam.

Banished Cells endboss will throw a random player into a bubble that will lift them up, when they fall down they get fall damage + a bleed curse effect that can only be cured if they run toward a red or a blue circle - depending on which color they shine. He also spawns fire circles on multiple team members, and the fire circles will keep spawning for a certain amount of time - and they stack - so team members are forced to run around.

Sanctum first boss have a poison phase where there will be aoe around, and the team of 12 players must spread out and run around to avoid aoe.

The list is longer but I am too lazy to continue it.... someone in ZOS developer team actually thinks like you do ^^ just shut off game sounds and put yakety sax on replay from youtube.

I managed Banished Cells without any problems, however it was noticable how little damage we did, my heals were lacking and tank was struggling. We played with our old builds, but I am looking forward to try out the new sets and see how different it is.

UrQuan · September 2015

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

Tanks standing their ground? Bad for the health of the game.

Tanks running around to yakety sax? Best day ever.

Oh man, if I was designing dungeons I'd make one with a boss fight where there's a stage that forces everyone to run around to avoid something (or maybe chase something), and during that stage of the fight all of a sudden yakety sax would start playing...

Maybe it's a good thing I'm not designing the dungeons.

Dear UrQuan

Veteran Crypt of Hearts second boss will spawn a large red aoe circle that will stalk a random player, and the player will be forced to run half a circle in the room to avoid it. - endboss is where the tank usually runs around with 4 adds stabbing his back, meanwhile he tries to get near the teleporting boss to range taunt him - at the same time as the boss starts throwing AoE circles around, so the whole team is forced to run around like headless chickens.

Veteran Fungal Grotto second boss will bind two players with a blue thread, if they don't run away from eachother like crazy, they will die. Forth boss will spawn a beam that will chase a random player, and that player have to run around to avoid the beam.

Banished Cells endboss will throw a random player into a bubble that will lift them up, when they fall down they get fall damage + a bleed curse effect that can only be cured if they run toward a red or a blue circle - depending on which color they shine. He also spawns fire circles on multiple team members, and the fire circles will keep spawning for a certain amount of time - and they stack - so team members are forced to run around.

Sanctum first boss have a poison phase where there will be aoe around, and the team of 12 players must spread out and run around to avoid aoe.

And yet none of them plays yakety sax!

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

The list is longer but I am too lazy to continue it.... someone in ZOS developer team actually thinks like you do ^^ just shut off game sounds and put yakety sax on replay from youtube.

Oh, um, yeah, I guess I could do that, couldn't I?

Avonna · September 2015

they hit us with too many changes to stamina at once.

roll dodges ( important part of game play )

blocking ( extremely important to pve game play)

did they even change the values/cost on stamina skills? like lower them, considering we are using stamina VERY VERY quickly.??

zos, is there any talk in the office about these new changes and how they are effecting peoples gameplay?
are you guys sitting around laughing at us? OR are you guys brainstorming on how to fix it?

traigusb14_ESO2 · September 2015

No

UrQuan wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

I'm having a lot more trouble on my Stamplar in a tanking spec, but it is still doable. I do have to throw down Radiant Ward and heavy attack a lot more. I think magicka Healer Tanks will be better off.

My tank has so far evolved a lot more into a turtle whereas before I was a DPS tank.

Templars are definitely the weakest tanking class now because our Stamina return ability requires bodies (Repentence) and we lack AOE CC.

Hmm, this post made me think about possible reasons for why I didn't find tanking on PTS to be that much more difficult. My character I was tanking with was a templar, who relies far more on magicka skills than stamina skills (just about the only things I ever use stamina for on him are Pierce Armour, Heroic Slash, blocking, and occasionally dodge-rolling), and to boot he's also a Redguard, so he's got a built-in stamina recovery system. Maybe he's not the best character for me to use to judge the changes to stamina and tanking.

I tank with a hybrid templar. I didn't run through every Vet dungeon on test, but didn't do too badly on the ones I tried. I run with a pretty tight group, so we adapt as a group. Some of my survive-ability was based on other people changing skills not me. I don't use body bean sta recharge, rather I use the ground buff version (always have). That plus good regen helps me get sta back fast in breaks. I haven't tried sta regen mundus, or swapping to drinks yet. My healer is resto, so I don't get shards.

PUGs are gonna hurt.

We had to relearn a lot of boss fights, but we worked a lot of stuff out.

Tip: sheilds and block don't stack, so get a sheild and drop block for a quick STA regen burst. My NB tank buddy has his regen cranked with mundus and drink. When my DK healer drops floaty rock sheild on him and he drops block his STA shoots to the moon .

I need to think about more regen on my tank, it would have made made a few fights easier. It seems counterintuative to add more regen when blocking regen is 0, but boosting it for non-blocking time works with some specs / healers

Bherdani · September 2015

No

I was in DSA yesterday and had no stam issues, but I had a good templar behind me. And in front of me, and off to the side... stupid stranglers. But I digress.

I think, my fellow tanks, it is time for us to invest in some dps.

CP5 · September 2015

Yes

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

I'm having a lot more trouble on my Stamplar in a tanking spec, but it is still doable. I do have to throw down Radiant Ward and heavy attack a lot more. I think magicka Healer Tanks will be better off.

My tank has so far evolved a lot more into a turtle whereas before I was a DPS tank.

Templars are definitely the weakest tanking class now because our Stamina return ability requires bodies (Repentence) and we lack AOE CC.

Hmm, this post made me think about possible reasons for why I didn't find tanking on PTS to be that much more difficult. My character I was tanking with was a templar, who relies far more on magicka skills than stamina skills (just about the only things I ever use stamina for on him are Pierce Armour, Heroic Slash, blocking, and occasionally dodge-rolling), and to boot he's also a Redguard, so he's got a built-in stamina recovery system. Maybe he's not the best character for me to use to judge the changes to stamina and tanking.

I tank with a hybrid templar. I didn't run through every Vet dungeon on test, but didn't do too badly on the ones I tried. I run with a pretty tight group, so we adapt as a group. Some of my survive-ability was based on other people changing skills not me. I don't use body bean sta recharge, rather I use the ground buff version (always have). That plus good regen helps me get sta back fast in breaks. I haven't tried sta regen mundus, or swapping to drinks yet. My healer is resto, so I don't get shards.

PUGs are gonna hurt.

We had to relearn a lot of boss fights, but we worked a lot of stuff out.

Tip: sheilds and block don't stack, so get a sheild and drop block for a quick STA regen burst. My NB tank buddy has his regen cranked with mundus and drink. When my DK healer drops floaty rock sheild on him and he drops block his STA shoots to the moon .

I need to think about more regen on my tank, it would have made made a few fights easier. It seems counterintuative to add more regen when blocking regen is 0, but boosting it for non-blocking time works with some specs / healers

Still think it was a very short sighted idea to reset the regen timer when you go to block rather than reduce regen to 0 like when you sneak or sprint. It means anyone who blocks anything will suffer in a system designed to counter people who only block.

FlyingApron · September 2015

No

Sounds like the gameplay for tanks just got more exciting and skill-tensive....

I always thought just sitting in one spot holding the block key was kinda boring myself.

Valn · September 2015

Yes

FlyingApron wrote: »

Sounds like the gameplay for tanks just got more exciting and skill-tensive....

I always thought just sitting in one spot holding the block key was kinda boring myself.

then you obviously don't know how to tank

traigusb14_ESO2 · September 2015

No

CP5 wrote: »

traigusb14_ESO2 wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

Dyride wrote: »

I'm having a lot more trouble on my Stamplar in a tanking spec, but it is still doable. I do have to throw down Radiant Ward and heavy attack a lot more. I think magicka Healer Tanks will be better off.

My tank has so far evolved a lot more into a turtle whereas before I was a DPS tank.

Templars are definitely the weakest tanking class now because our Stamina return ability requires bodies (Repentence) and we lack AOE CC.

Hmm, this post made me think about possible reasons for why I didn't find tanking on PTS to be that much more difficult. My character I was tanking with was a templar, who relies far more on magicka skills than stamina skills (just about the only things I ever use stamina for on him are Pierce Armour, Heroic Slash, blocking, and occasionally dodge-rolling), and to boot he's also a Redguard, so he's got a built-in stamina recovery system. Maybe he's not the best character for me to use to judge the changes to stamina and tanking.

I tank with a hybrid templar. I didn't run through every Vet dungeon on test, but didn't do too badly on the ones I tried. I run with a pretty tight group, so we adapt as a group. Some of my survive-ability was based on other people changing skills not me. I don't use body bean sta recharge, rather I use the ground buff version (always have). That plus good regen helps me get sta back fast in breaks. I haven't tried sta regen mundus, or swapping to drinks yet. My healer is resto, so I don't get shards.

PUGs are gonna hurt.

We had to relearn a lot of boss fights, but we worked a lot of stuff out.

Tip: sheilds and block don't stack, so get a sheild and drop block for a quick STA regen burst. My NB tank buddy has his regen cranked with mundus and drink. When my DK healer drops floaty rock sheild on him and he drops block his STA shoots to the moon .

I need to think about more regen on my tank, it would have made made a few fights easier. It seems counterintuative to add more regen when blocking regen is 0, but boosting it for non-blocking time works with some specs / healers

Still think it was a very short sighted idea to reset the regen timer when you go to block rather than reduce regen to 0 like when you sneak or sprint. It means anyone who blocks anything will suffer in a system designed to counter people who only block.

It may have something to do with the way block is activated. it is much more lag sensitive than sprint or stealth (has to be checked by the server more often)... or maybe it was a different programmer on a different day. That may be a change we could get enacted.