Ravens-Sonata wrote: »

So Let me Understand this -- The Imperial DLC is primarily PvP???

Im a PvE'r, I mainly do everything solo as finding a group is nearly impossible,

I was considering getting the new DLC, but if its PvP based -- Then arent us PvE's left out if we dont wish to PvP?

I realize this wont be on XB1 til 9-15, but I thought there was going to be both areas, but by the way it sounds - this is for the PvP'rs

Lexynide wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

This update is for PvPers. Sorry, it's not for PvErs, and the concern should not be with the PvE crowd. Orsinium is coming soon, that will be the next PvE update.
That being said, I played with a PvE friend today, and he was having a blast. I think IC offers the best balance for PvE and PvP to mesh together. It's extremely fun in there.
And coming from a person who could one-shot a person for 26k+ in 1.6, I'm loving the damage changes in 1.7. It's made fights more fun for me. We'll see how things end up eventually, but this, this is a fun update.

To everyone saying "Relax, it's a PvP update, not PvE" - you don't really understand few important things.
This update brings not just big PvP area, I would be perfectly fine with that. But it also adds crafting set locations, new endgame gear, new endgame materials and most importantly: continue of PvE story in 2 dungeons.
Yep, you've heard me right: a PvE content inside of it. White-Gold Tower and Imperial City, it is not available to PvE players, they have to buy entire PvP DLC. You cannot call it only PvP update - it's also a PvE update too, so stop trying to pretend that it's all "alright" - it is not.

Now lets stop one more time at new tiers of materials, since they're being hard-to-get grindfest. There are two possible scenarios what Wrothgar update will do, and neither of them is optimistic:

Scenario first: Wrothgar is limited to VR14 mats, with VR16 rewards (maybe). In this case, obtaining V16 gear becomes essential for PvE players. Where should they get mats to craft VR16 gear? You guessed it - inside Imperial City, which is proposed to be "PvP DLC". Not so PvP now, is it?

Scenario second: Wrothgar is truly VR16(or even VR18, who knows) land, there are Corundum Ore veins all over the land, mobs drop VR16 junk etc etc. What happens to Imperial City with all the multiple layers of grinding fest? It becomes second Craglorn - an abandoned land with population of average Cadwell Silver land. Everybody will move on to Wrothgar because it's much easier to farm and get gear there than waste your life grinding daedrats in the sewers. The players who bought 25$ DLC with great "promise" will feel a little disappointed because all their spent time was in vain.

What conclusion do we have here? Simple one: either way it's not going to end good.

Garion wrote: »

Can we have a tldr?

Zershar_Vemod wrote: »

tl;der

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

LOL SO MANY PEOPLE POSTED WITHOUT READING AND UNDERSTANDING THE POST

It's a great post and you all should take time to read it.

Ravens-Sonata wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

Can we get rid of the notion that people don't choose to PvP because they are afraid of it? That is so much nonsense. Most people who don't PvP base that decision either on past experience of PvP or else on a simple preference for PvE questing. Either way it's nothing to do with fear, any more than it is with some PvPers who dislike PvE questing but aren't afraid of it, they just don't like it. That's how it is with most non-PvPers, they just don't like PvP.

I have PvP'd in the past but no longer have any interest in it, I simply don't play MMOs for that aspect and much prefer questing. I guess being in my middle 60s in real life may be a factor in that. However, the reason I won't be going to IC at this stage at least is because I don't have any VR characters and if I get any xp in IC it will just make my characters even more over-leveled for the base content than they already are. My focus now is on getting one or two characters to a level where I can enjoy Orsinium when that comes out without having the same problem, as that is much more my style of game. In the meantime it would be really great if we could have an option to disable or slow xp gain, and especially if we could disable the xp boost under ESO Plus. Boosted xp might be useful at VR level but it's a confounded nuisance from 1-50.

I agree - I've played PvP in the past on games, I've tried it here, but I have no interest in it nor does it really suit MY playing style. I particularly have no desire anymore to have to constantly look over my shoulder while trying to quest to see who is coming at me in the attempt to pk me. Im 52, Ive played many MMORPG's and RPG's, I prefer to play my style and not have to be just another stat that strokes some PvP'rs ego.

One nice thing about a RPG whether its an MMO or not is the ability to play according to your Style. Players that prefer Not to PvP for Whatever reason, should be put into a position of feeling forced to PvP in order to have access to the same things that PvP'rs have. That is quite bias and putting the game more PvP based.

Tandor wrote: »

Elektrakosh wrote: »

I'll be looking in from the outside. I'm not wanting to get killed for materials nor extra skyshards. I dislike PvP for those reasons stated plus I only like PvE. I'll be missing out and yes I do not like it but as all the folks said to me I'll have to "suck it up".

No skyshards completion for me or getting those much needed skill points. I'm waiting for Orsinium.

This.

Darlgon wrote: »

This thought started as a response to a question in a thread, but really needs its own thread. The comment?

Dru1076 wrote: »

...Is not my kind of game either in there, because I take no joy in killing so I can steal stuff from people...

..

I need to say something here.. and this comment brought it to a point.

I used to think like this player. I hated killing other players, felt it wasn't right to take their stuff. Know what changed? I figured out that, no matter how scripted a boss fight is, even my blessed Plane of Time Raids, its still scripted. If you really want a challenging fight, you have to get another person,, another intelligence that can do anything possible in the game, behind the keyboard.

I also know a lot of PVE people feel like they are being forced into IC. I feel for you frankly, because I like to keep my PVE separate from my PVP. The implementation of the level up, plus increase in ALL crafting levels, was pure stupidity on whoever thought of it. (Sorry ZoS.) In hindsight, ZoS probably could have left the level cap at VR14, made IC all about getting Tel Var stones and PVP players would have looked at it like a huge delve, to fight other players and mobs, with the gear sets at VR14 as rewards. They could have added the PVE four mans as pledges as a token for PVE players, while waiting for Orsinium.

But, how would the PVE players feel about never setting foot inside the Imperial City districts? Never going into the sewers? Supposedly, the quests in each district culminate in a story to wrap out the main story we all had to play to get access to Cadwells Silver and Gold. How would you feel with that story ending, and you cant access that content? Isnt the main goal of almost every PVE player to finish out a storyline? To do all the main quests?

Now, you can view fighting someone and killing them as murdering them and stealing from them. But, why dont you feel that way about a mob? Oh, its programmed to die, not to care. And, do you not pick up the gold or loot because, well, it died? No, you WANT that XP and phat loot.

Guess what, any time a player steps foot into a PVP area, its not a surprise that he might die. In a lot of games, its not a surprise he will loose some of his stuff.Its why I always avoided the arenas in EQ. But, you see, even there they warned you that you were entering an area where your character might die. A player has to CHOOSE to enter a PVP area. Either that or stand on the outside, looking in and wondering what all the noise is about. And that choice involves risk.

Right now, Imperial City is a zergfest of huge mobs of each faction taking on huge mobs of the other faction. I have not gone in, because I had other things to do, including setting up all my crafting alts and making more bag space for the new stuff. But I heard from my AvA guild, how zergy it is. That really is no fun. Brainlessly following a lot of players, casting a spell or whacking once in a while. A real PVP player wants a real fight.

ZoS is reaping the rewards of listening to their players. Players demanded open access to IC. Players threatened lawsuits or getting ESOTU banned from their country because of violating laws. Players are reaping the rewards of demanding the removal of the locking mechanism for IC. PLAYERS WHO DEMANDED letting the genie out of the bottle, well.. HERE IT IS.

With the original proposed keep locks, or a variation, 2/3 of the players inside IC tonight would be locked out. Thornblade NA-PC is entirely RED, not because an emp was there, not because EP took over the map since the servers came back up, but because NOT ONE GROUP from the other faction took the time to take back the keeps when the emp was force deposed with the Monday morning patch. The zergs inside IC rode right past enemy strongholds, because, "once I am inside IC, I wont need to do the ride again". ZoS, here is a preview of the next few weeks unless you make some drastic changes soon.

Players warned of this. Threads like this one:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2186111/#Comment_2186111

Players offered other options in threads like this one:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2163507/#Comment_2163507

(And, yes, I linked my comments. It was the easiest way for me to find the threads.)

What to do?
PVE players, you have to make a choice. MIss out on all the content and rewards found in Imperial CIty OR jump in and think of those other two faction guys as mini-bosses who are programmed to kill you, same as any red mob. Your death penalty isn't a repair bill tho, its the loss of your Tel Var stones.

PvP players. For the sake of the Eight, get the FRACK out of IC sometimes and remind yourselves what real fighting is, not those brainless zergs that are so successful and been used since launch. Try running with no more than 24 players, inside OR outside Cyro. If you have another guild group/raid, have them take resources at another keep, so the opposition doesn't feel so overwhelmed and want to leave for another campaign. I mean really, how are you gonna get AP if you have no opposition.

And, ZoS, ultimately, its up to you. You knew this was coming, because many of us warned you. I see "congratulations" threads in the forums, but expect that to quickly turn ugly. Activate your plan to make the land around IC useful. Heck, I would REALLY like you to activate my plan, but thats not my call. The comments on ESO Live about decreasing the size of a raid.. yeah.. you are right. Most players take the path of least resistance, which involves following a bunch of other players for protection. In zoology, they call that a "herd" mentality. How to counter it? I dont know.

I have seen a few things that could be zerg busters, but again, ZoS, you backed down because.. "OH, that meatbag was OWCHIE!" "OOOHH FIRE BURNS." No freaking kidding. But when 60 players are in one spot, the only way to get them to break up is to hurt them. There are mechanics in this game to warn them, but if they think they can ignore them, die and whine about dying.. why do you listen? Because they will take their money and leave? When they get bored because combat is so watered down, BY THEIR OWN REQUESTS, they will take their money and go elsewhere anyway.

The current nerf to healing and damage in Cyrodiil, is, frankly a mistake. Yes, you increase time to die. Know what, people who have been spoiled for months of instant gratification for kills are already bored with the LONG time to kill a mediocre player. Skilled players, and MANY are way more skilled than I, will be pretty much unkillable. Battles will more often be a stalemate. Well, except, there is that zerg headed around every 10 minutes, who will wipe out either or both players with their overwhelming numbers. No point in continuing to fight when all you will get is a sea of blue/red/yellow washing over you, so just dont even start. Yes, the 40K hits from snipe were insane before. The 24K non-crit hits from Invasion are crazy now. Fix the stupid skill, dont nerf every player in the zone, with a forced reduction. Either way, people will be quickly bored, from dying too fast or wasting away, because neither heals nor damage are powerful enough to affect a "normal" player, either to make him live or die. But a zerg, with many players can effect that result quickly.

After reading and playing today, I am mainly concerned with the long-term health of this game. The community is fractured into PVE and PVP camps. The players really think ZoS does not understand its own game because they wont stick to their guns. Hopefully, sometime, somehow it will get fixed. (Or maybe I am just tired and this will all feel better in the morning. Sorry for rambling.)

Elektrakosh wrote: »

I'll be looking in from the outside. I'm not wanting to get killed for materials nor extra skyshards. I dislike PvP for those reasons stated plus I only like PvE. I'll be missing out and yes I do not like it but as all the folks said to me I'll have to "suck it up".

No skyshards completion for me or getting those much needed skill points. I'm waiting for Orsinium.

Elektrakosh wrote: »

I'll be looking in from the outside. I'm not wanting to get killed for materials nor extra skyshards. I dislike PvP for those reasons stated plus I only like PvE. I'll be missing out and yes I do not like it but as all the folks said to me I'll have to "suck it up".

No skyshards completion for me or getting those much needed skill points. I'm waiting for Orsinium.

MornaBaine wrote: »

and I resent that all the best dyes are PvP rewards.