Congratulations ESOTU players, you got what you wanted, an open Imperial City

Darlgon

This thought started as a response to a question in a thread, but really needs its own thread. The comment?

Dru1076 wrote: »

...Is not my kind of game either in there, because I take no joy in killing so I can steal stuff from people...

..

I need to say something here.. and this comment brought it to a point.

I used to think like this player. I hated killing other players, felt it wasn't right to take their stuff. Know what changed? I figured out that, no matter how scripted a boss fight is, even my blessed Plane of Time Raids, its still scripted. If you really want a challenging fight, you have to get another person,, another intelligence that can do anything possible in the game, behind the keyboard.

I also know a lot of PVE people feel like they are being forced into IC. I feel for you frankly, because I like to keep my PVE separate from my PVP. The implementation of the level up, plus increase in ALL crafting levels, was pure stupidity on whoever thought of it. (Sorry ZoS.) In hindsight, ZoS probably could have left the level cap at VR14, made IC all about getting Tel Var stones and PVP players would have looked at it like a huge delve, to fight other players and mobs, with the gear sets at VR14 as rewards. They could have added the PVE four mans as pledges as a token for PVE players, while waiting for Orsinium.

But, how would the PVE players feel about never setting foot inside the Imperial City districts? Never going into the sewers? Supposedly, the quests in each district culminate in a story to wrap out the main story we all had to play to get access to Cadwells Silver and Gold. How would you feel with that story ending, and you cant access that content? Isnt the main goal of almost every PVE player to finish out a storyline? To do all the main quests?

Now, you can view fighting someone and killing them as murdering them and stealing from them. But, why dont you feel that way about a mob? Oh, its programmed to die, not to care. And, do you not pick up the gold or loot because, well, it died? No, you WANT that XP and phat loot.

Guess what, any time a player steps foot into a PVP area, its not a surprise that he might die. In a lot of games, its not a surprise he will loose some of his stuff.Its why I always avoided the arenas in EQ. But, you see, even there they warned you that you were entering an area where your character might die. A player has to CHOOSE to enter a PVP area. Either that or stand on the outside, looking in and wondering what all the noise is about. And that choice involves risk.

Right now, Imperial City is a zergfest of huge mobs of each faction taking on huge mobs of the other faction. I have not gone in, because I had other things to do, including setting up all my crafting alts and making more bag space for the new stuff. But I heard from my AvA guild, how zergy it is. That really is no fun. Brainlessly following a lot of players, casting a spell or whacking once in a while. A real PVP player wants a real fight.

ZoS is reaping the rewards of listening to their players. Players demanded open access to IC. Players threatened lawsuits or getting ESOTU banned from their country because of violating laws. Players are reaping the rewards of demanding the removal of the locking mechanism for IC. PLAYERS WHO DEMANDED letting the genie out of the bottle, well.. HERE IT IS.

With the original proposed keep locks, or a variation, 2/3 of the players inside IC tonight would be locked out. Thornblade NA-PC is entirely RED, not because an emp was there, not because EP took over the map since the servers came back up, but because NOT ONE GROUP from the other faction took the time to take back the keeps when the emp was force deposed with the Monday morning patch. The zergs inside IC rode right past enemy strongholds, because, "once I am inside IC, I wont need to do the ride again". ZoS, here is a preview of the next few weeks unless you make some drastic changes soon.

Players warned of this. Threads like this one:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2186111/#Comment_2186111

Players offered other options in threads like this one:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2163507/#Comment_2163507

(And, yes, I linked my comments. It was the easiest way for me to find the threads.)

What to do?
PVE players, you have to make a choice. MIss out on all the content and rewards found in Imperial CIty OR jump in and think of those other two faction guys as mini-bosses who are programmed to kill you, same as any red mob. Your death penalty isn't a repair bill tho, its the loss of your Tel Var stones.

PvP players. For the sake of the Eight, get the FRACK out of IC sometimes and remind yourselves what real fighting is, not those brainless zergs that are so successful and been used since launch. Try running with no more than 24 players, inside OR outside Cyro. If you have another guild group/raid, have them take resources at another keep, so the opposition doesn't feel so overwhelmed and want to leave for another campaign. I mean really, how are you gonna get AP if you have no opposition.

And, ZoS, ultimately, its up to you. You knew this was coming, because many of us warned you. I see "congratulations" threads in the forums, but expect that to quickly turn ugly. Activate your plan to make the land around IC useful. Heck, I would REALLY like you to activate my plan, but thats not my call. The comments on ESO Live about decreasing the size of a raid.. yeah.. you are right. Most players take the path of least resistance, which involves following a bunch of other players for protection. In zoology, they call that a "herd" mentality. How to counter it? I dont know.

I have seen a few things that could be zerg busters, but again, ZoS, you backed down because.. "OH, that meatbag was OWCHIE!" "OOOHH FIRE BURNS." No freaking kidding. But when 60 players are in one spot, the only way to get them to break up is to hurt them. There are mechanics in this game to warn them, but if they think they can ignore them, die and whine about dying.. why do you listen? Because they will take their money and leave? When they get bored because combat is so watered down, BY THEIR OWN REQUESTS, they will take their money and go elsewhere anyway.

The current nerf to healing and damage in Cyrodiil, is, frankly a mistake. Yes, you increase time to die. Know what, people who have been spoiled for months of instant gratification for kills are already bored with the LONG time to kill a mediocre player. Skilled players, and MANY are way more skilled than I, will be pretty much unkillable. Battles will more often be a stalemate. Well, except, there is that zerg headed around every 10 minutes, who will wipe out either or both players with their overwhelming numbers. No point in continuing to fight when all you will get is a sea of blue/red/yellow washing over you, so just dont even start. Yes, the 40K hits from snipe were insane before. The 24K non-crit hits from Invasion are crazy now. Fix the stupid skill, dont nerf every player in the zone, with a forced reduction. Either way, people will be quickly bored, from dying too fast or wasting away, because neither heals nor damage are powerful enough to affect a "normal" player, either to make him live or die. But a zerg, with many players can effect that result quickly.

After reading and playing today, I am mainly concerned with the long-term health of this game. The community is fractured into PVE and PVP camps. The players really think ZoS does not understand its own game because they wont stick to their guns. Hopefully, sometime, somehow it will get fixed. (Or maybe I am just tired and this will all feel better in the morning. Sorry for rambling.)

Garion

Can we have a tldr?

DisgracefulMind

This update is for PvPers. Sorry, it's not for PvErs, and the concern should not be with the PvE crowd. Orsinium is coming soon, that will be the next PvE update.

That being said, I played with a PvE friend today, and he was having a blast. I think IC offers the best balance for PvE and PvP to mesh together. It's extremely fun in there.

And coming from a person who could one-shot a person for 26k+ in 1.6, I'm loving the damage changes in 1.7. It's made fights more fun for me. We'll see how things end up eventually, but this, this is a fun update.

Elektrakosh

I'll be looking in from the outside. I'm not wanting to get killed for materials nor extra skyshards. I dislike PvP for those reasons stated plus I only like PvE. I'll be missing out and yes I do not like it but as all the folks said to me I'll have to "suck it up".

No skyshards completion for me or getting those much needed skill points. I'm waiting for Orsinium.

Tandor

Elektrakosh wrote: »

I'll be looking in from the outside. I'm not wanting to get killed for materials nor extra skyshards. I dislike PvP for those reasons stated plus I only like PvE. I'll be missing out and yes I do not like it but as all the folks said to me I'll have to "suck it up".

No skyshards completion for me or getting those much needed skill points. I'm waiting for Orsinium.

This.

Moonshadow66

Elektrakosh wrote: »

I'll be looking in from the outside. I'm not wanting to get killed for materials nor extra skyshards. I dislike PvP for those reasons stated plus I only like PvE. I'll be missing out and yes I do not like it but as all the folks said to me I'll have to "suck it up".

No skyshards completion for me or getting those much needed skill points. I'm waiting for Orsinium.

Same here.
Although I would have wanted to see IC from inside as well after playing the previous ES games for many years (including Oblivion, of course). Too bad I'll never see IC in ESO.
Before the update, I tried PvP just a couple of times, and the only thing I feel in Cyrodiil is "stress", stress everywhere and constantly. So I decided to not do this to myself again.
By now, my game ends at the Tamriel Hero titles (yes, even there was Cyrodiil involved, unfortunately^^) parked in Craglorn doing writs, and then it'll continue with Orsinium. In the meantime I'll level my lower rank characters

Mathius_Mordred

Elektrakosh wrote: »

I'll be looking in from the outside. I'm not wanting to get killed for materials nor extra skyshards. I dislike PvP for those reasons stated plus I only like PvE. I'll be missing out and yes I do not like it but as all the folks said to me I'll have to "suck it up".

No skyshards completion for me or getting those much needed skill points. I'm waiting for Orsinium.

Same, it started with Craglorn when I discovered I could no longer do the quests I loved in the game without a group with me, and we all know how well the group finder works. Cyrodil is a no go area for single players and IC is the same. Such a shame, used to adore this game, level 50 in most crafting, had spent a load to make sure I was subscribed a long enough to get the cat mount then they offer it in the crown store. Anyway, I cancelled my subscription a month ago, I cancelled my son's subscription as well, he was lower level than me so we could never do anything together.

I have now reinstalled Skyrim and I'm loving it again with all the latest mods, ESO was fun whilst it lasted. I hope all those zergers and PvPers are happy and enjoy their game, as it is surely now their game and not a game for the casual player. I no longer recommend ESO to anyone instead tell them to go Skyrim or Witcher and wait for TES6.

Muizer

Careful now. Don't want this to become a PvE vs PvP thing. In the long run, we're all in the same boat: we get an update we like and then one we don't. And when we get one we don't we miss out on most of the cool new, powerful stuff.

Elektrakosh

Mathius_Mordred wrote: »

Same, it started with Craglorn when I discovered I could no longer do the quests I loved in the game without a group with me, and we all know how well the group finder works. Cyrodil is a no go area for single players and IC is the same. Such a shame, used to adore this game, level 50 in most crafting, had spent a load to make sure I was subscribed a long enough to get the cat mount then they offer it in the crown store. Anyway, I cancelled my subscription a month ago, I cancelled my son's subscription as well, he was lower level than me so we could never do anything together.

I have now reinstalled Skyrim and I'm loving it again with all the latest mods, ESO was fun whilst it lasted. I hope all those zergers and PvPers are happy and enjoy their game, as it is surely now their game and not a game for the casual player. I no longer recommend ESO to anyone instead tell them to go Skyrim or Witcher and wait for TES6.

Pity about you and your son not being able to play together. It's a pain re rolling a new character as you can see by my signature I have done that four times. No fun.

After my character reaches v1 I might just leave it and go back to Skyrim (console vanilla before dlc later) The Argonian passives were better than ESO Kwarma nonsense. The sneaking is better and you could shoot a bow for miles (I may be exagerrating here).

imredneckson

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

This update is for PvPers. Sorry, it's not for PvErs, and the concern should not be with the PvE crowd. Orsinium is coming soon, that will be the next PvE update.

That being said, I played with a PvE friend today, and he was having a blast. I think IC offers the best balance for PvE and PvP to mesh together. It's extremely fun in there.

And coming from a person who could one-shot a person for 26k+ in 1.6, I'm loving the damage changes in 1.7. It's made fights more fun for me. We'll see how things end up eventually, but this, this is a fun update.

^Said it all

R3DTHR3AT

Darlgon wrote: »

A real PVP player wants a real fight.

You should whine for arenas then, because big raids are part of current pvp system. Zos already spoken about it.

ewhite106b16_ESO

Had a good time doing some soloing in IC on Haderus today, was pretty late but still 2-3 bars per faction population. Got some good PVP in - if access was gated all I would have had to look forward to was the huge cyrodil zergs. If anything the main change that needs to happen is group size in imperial city being limited to 12 at most - not forcing players to spend hours in Cyrodil zergs before getting to have any fun in IC (that is IF their faction gets it's act together).

Tandor

Muizer wrote: »

Careful now. Don't want this to become a PvE vs PvP thing. In the long run, we're all in the same boat: we get an update we like and then one we don't. And when we get one we don't we miss out on most of the cool new, powerful stuff.

Fair point, and the fact that PvEers will be getting their own DLC is indeed satisfying for them. Of course, it would be even more satisfying to them if the PvPers whose content is blocking the PvE parts of IC weren't already moaning about their DLC when it hasn't even been live for 24 hours yet!

Lexynide

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

This update is for PvPers. Sorry, it's not for PvErs, and the concern should not be with the PvE crowd. Orsinium is coming soon, that will be the next PvE update.
That being said, I played with a PvE friend today, and he was having a blast. I think IC offers the best balance for PvE and PvP to mesh together. It's extremely fun in there.
And coming from a person who could one-shot a person for 26k+ in 1.6, I'm loving the damage changes in 1.7. It's made fights more fun for me. We'll see how things end up eventually, but this, this is a fun update.

To everyone saying "Relax, it's a PvP update, not PvE" - you don't really understand few important things.
This update brings not just big PvP area, I would be perfectly fine with that. But it also adds crafting set locations, new endgame gear, new endgame materials and most importantly: continue of PvE story in 2 dungeons.
Yep, you've heard me right: a PvE content inside of it. White-Gold Tower and Imperial City, it is not available to PvE players, they have to buy entire PvP DLC. You cannot call it only PvP update - it's also a PvE update too, so stop trying to pretend that it's all "alright" - it is not.

Now lets stop one more time at new tiers of materials, since they're being hard-to-get grindfest. There are two possible scenarios what Wrothgar update will do, and neither of them is optimistic:

Scenario first: Wrothgar is limited to VR14 mats, with VR16 rewards (maybe). In this case, obtaining V16 gear becomes essential for PvE players. Where should they get mats to craft VR16 gear? You guessed it - inside Imperial City, which is proposed to be "PvP DLC". Not so PvP now, is it?

Scenario second: Wrothgar is truly VR16(or even VR18, who knows) land, there are Corundum Ore veins all over the land, mobs drop VR16 junk etc etc. What happens to Imperial City with all the multiple layers of grinding fest? It becomes second Craglorn - an abandoned land with population of average Cadwell Silver land. Everybody will move on to Wrothgar because it's much easier to farm and get gear there than waste your life grinding daedrats in the sewers. The players who bought 25$ DLC with great "promise" will feel a little disappointed because all their spent time was in vain.

What conclusion do we have here? Simple one: either way it's not going to end good.

mystercee

Call me crazy, stupid or whatever, but... is there any reason we couldn't have a dedicated pvp area, totally separate to any pve stuff like quests etc? Yes I know ESO is a MMO, and while historically MMO translates to "groups", increasingly MMO games are populated with a large proportion of solo players.

As things stand with ESO, there is Cyrodil for group PVP. Craglorn, from what I've read and experienced is extremely difficult to solo. And let's not forget how abysmal the ingame group finder is. Now we have Imperial City, which from all reports is a solo players nightmare.

PVP is an important facet for many players and I they have just as much right to unique gameplay and content as the rest of the us. However, what I see happening as I advance is the opportunity to solo being almost impossible.

The solution as I see it, is to have unique vet areas for pvp and separate for ongoing questing/storyline. Similar I guess to Cadwell's Silver/Gold. Or maybe there could be a pvp matchup for solo. Tank v tank, sorc v sorc or something. Or maybe I'm reiterating ideas which have already been discussed. All I know is that I am bored silly waiting for the patch to download and I wanted to do something other than *** about the wait time.

*The thought just occurred you could have the option to enter Imperial City as PVP or PVE. Then everybody wins and we have best of both worlds. Yeah, I know I'm crazy wanting to make it happy and fun for all.

olemanwinter

I started reading from the start...but then I got lost at what the point even was, so I started skipping ahead. I see topics like 'healing reductions', etc in your thread about gated access vs open imperial city.

I honestly have no idea what the heck you are doing. And no, I didn't read it all. But I shouldn't have to read IT ALL just to get a CLUE what the point is. Give me clue somewhere in the first half and I might read the second half.

I'm all for long posts full of descriptions, data, evidence, and logical argument. BUT YOU STILL NEED A THESIS.

What's the point man? What's the point?

In one or two sentences.....give us the point!

Techlisp

So PvE players don't do PVP because they cannot bring themselves to kill another player?

Really, are you sure about this?

You sure it isn't about they themselves getting killed, and emotionally not being able to handle it?

I can understand a player who goes in and gets ganked ten times over and saying **** this. But not trying it a few times to see what it is like is just strange to me [Cyrodiil not IC].

If you don't do PvP, don't buy IC it is that simple. Pretend it never happened.

I doubt I'll get IC because PvP keeps crashing on PS4 for me [and PvP was the main reason I got this game because i loved Guild Wars 2 WvW]. Like two times in the first fifteen minutes of play last night. I was excited to get it. But I can live without it if I have to.

JD2013

One of the major problems about this update is people's absolute refusal to even try and set foot into Imperial City, even in a group. The Tel Var stones are easy to lose, yes. But they are also easy to gather. Sooner or later, people are going to figure out that there's no real reward, TV stone wise at least, for being in a big zerg train. as the amount you would get in a group is negligible from what you would get on your own.

Why are people so afraid of being killed by another player? You realise it won't kill you IRL, right? Yes, some of the attitude stinks from some of the top PVP people, but sadly that is how all MMO's go eventually. Which, whilst sad, is just a fact of life for MMO's. There will always be someone stronger and better than you.

There's a ton of new story stuff to do and sets to get and motifs to get and new dungeons. Go and jump in and have fun rather than cowering in a corner. Go and fight for your faction.

I am not the best at PVP, not by a long shot. But I still jump into Cyrodiil with guild mates and have a ton of fun, and I shall be doing the same with Imperial City. (Patch just finished downloading!) Had a grand old time at Alessia Bridge last night.

But, if you are really that afraid of being killed, Orsinuim is coming for Christmas. A whole zone for you with no PVP and likely lots of new gear, and you can wind your merry way through that without any fear.

DaniAngione

Not exactly related, but one thing that would be ways to go to prevent zergs would be player physical collision. Not only it would male combat more tactical and nice, it would prevenet those huge, senseless and annoying stacks and zergs. Just a thought. Some MMOs have it, so I don't think "server stress" is a valid excuse

The Uninvited

JD2013 wrote: »

One of the major problems about this update is people's absolute refusal to even try and set foot into Imperial City, even in a group.

Well spoken, this is the major problem. Not the update itself.

@Darlgon & @Lexynide : The two dungeons are indeed PVE but accesible without running into PVP players. My main reason for purchasing this DLC is the two new dungeons, my second reason is because PVP is fun from time to time. You should try it!

firstdecan

So, is this big long rant simply because of the open Imperial City, as your thread title suggests? I'm sorry you can't lock out other players and PvE by yourself in the new zone, but some of us wanted to be able to access the content we paid for.

Darlgon wrote: »

This thought started as a response to a question in a thread, but really needs its own thread. The comment?

Dru1076 wrote: »

...Is not my kind of game either in there, because I take no joy in killing so I can steal stuff from people...

..

I need to say something here.. and this comment brought it to a point.

I used to think like this player. I hated killing other players, felt it wasn't right to take their stuff. Know what changed? I figured out that, no matter how scripted a boss fight is, even my blessed Plane of Time Raids, its still scripted. If you really want a challenging fight, you have to get another person,, another intelligence that can do anything possible in the game, behind the keyboard.

I also know a lot of PVE people feel like they are being forced into IC. I feel for you frankly, because I like to keep my PVE separate from my PVP. The implementation of the level up, plus increase in ALL crafting levels, was pure stupidity on whoever thought of it. (Sorry ZoS.) In hindsight, ZoS probably could have left the level cap at VR14, made IC all about getting Tel Var stones and PVP players would have looked at it like a huge delve, to fight other players and mobs, with the gear sets at VR14 as rewards. They could have added the PVE four mans as pledges as a token for PVE players, while waiting for Orsinium.

But, how would the PVE players feel about never setting foot inside the Imperial City districts? Never going into the sewers? Supposedly, the quests in each district culminate in a story to wrap out the main story we all had to play to get access to Cadwells Silver and Gold. How would you feel with that story ending, and you cant access that content? Isnt the main goal of almost every PVE player to finish out a storyline? To do all the main quests?

Now, you can view fighting someone and killing them as murdering them and stealing from them. But, why dont you feel that way about a mob? Oh, its programmed to die, not to care. And, do you not pick up the gold or loot because, well, it died? No, you WANT that XP and phat loot.

Guess what, any time a player steps foot into a PVP area, its not a surprise that he might die. In a lot of games, its not a surprise he will loose some of his stuff.Its why I always avoided the arenas in EQ. But, you see, even there they warned you that you were entering an area where your character might die. A player has to CHOOSE to enter a PVP area. Either that or stand on the outside, looking in and wondering what all the noise is about. And that choice involves risk.

Right now, Imperial City is a zergfest of huge mobs of each faction taking on huge mobs of the other faction. I have not gone in, because I had other things to do, including setting up all my crafting alts and making more bag space for the new stuff. But I heard from my AvA guild, how zergy it is. That really is no fun. Brainlessly following a lot of players, casting a spell or whacking once in a while. A real PVP player wants a real fight.

ZoS is reaping the rewards of listening to their players. Players demanded open access to IC. Players threatened lawsuits or getting ESOTU banned from their country because of violating laws. Players are reaping the rewards of demanding the removal of the locking mechanism for IC. PLAYERS WHO DEMANDED letting the genie out of the bottle, well.. HERE IT IS.

With the original proposed keep locks, or a variation, 2/3 of the players inside IC tonight would be locked out. Thornblade NA-PC is entirely RED, not because an emp was there, not because EP took over the map since the servers came back up, but because NOT ONE GROUP from the other faction took the time to take back the keeps when the emp was force deposed with the Monday morning patch. The zergs inside IC rode right past enemy strongholds, because, "once I am inside IC, I wont need to do the ride again". ZoS, here is a preview of the next few weeks unless you make some drastic changes soon.

Players warned of this. Threads like this one:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2186111/#Comment_2186111

Players offered other options in threads like this one:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2163507/#Comment_2163507

(And, yes, I linked my comments. It was the easiest way for me to find the threads.)

What to do?
PVE players, you have to make a choice. MIss out on all the content and rewards found in Imperial CIty OR jump in and think of those other two faction guys as mini-bosses who are programmed to kill you, same as any red mob. Your death penalty isn't a repair bill tho, its the loss of your Tel Var stones.

PvP players. For the sake of the Eight, get the FRACK out of IC sometimes and remind yourselves what real fighting is, not those brainless zergs that are so successful and been used since launch. Try running with no more than 24 players, inside OR outside Cyro. If you have another guild group/raid, have them take resources at another keep, so the opposition doesn't feel so overwhelmed and want to leave for another campaign. I mean really, how are you gonna get AP if you have no opposition.

And, ZoS, ultimately, its up to you. You knew this was coming, because many of us warned you. I see "congratulations" threads in the forums, but expect that to quickly turn ugly. Activate your plan to make the land around IC useful. Heck, I would REALLY like you to activate my plan, but thats not my call. The comments on ESO Live about decreasing the size of a raid.. yeah.. you are right. Most players take the path of least resistance, which involves following a bunch of other players for protection. In zoology, they call that a "herd" mentality. How to counter it? I dont know.

I have seen a few things that could be zerg busters, but again, ZoS, you backed down because.. "OH, that meatbag was OWCHIE!" "OOOHH FIRE BURNS." No freaking kidding. But when 60 players are in one spot, the only way to get them to break up is to hurt them. There are mechanics in this game to warn them, but if they think they can ignore them, die and whine about dying.. why do you listen? Because they will take their money and leave? When they get bored because combat is so watered down, BY THEIR OWN REQUESTS, they will take their money and go elsewhere anyway.

The current nerf to healing and damage in Cyrodiil, is, frankly a mistake. Yes, you increase time to die. Know what, people who have been spoiled for months of instant gratification for kills are already bored with the LONG time to kill a mediocre player. Skilled players, and MANY are way more skilled than I, will be pretty much unkillable. Battles will more often be a stalemate. Well, except, there is that zerg headed around every 10 minutes, who will wipe out either or both players with their overwhelming numbers. No point in continuing to fight when all you will get is a sea of blue/red/yellow washing over you, so just dont even start. Yes, the 40K hits from snipe were insane before. The 24K non-crit hits from Invasion are crazy now. Fix the stupid skill, dont nerf every player in the zone, with a forced reduction. Either way, people will be quickly bored, from dying too fast or wasting away, because neither heals nor damage are powerful enough to affect a "normal" player, either to make him live or die. But a zerg, with many players can effect that result quickly.

After reading and playing today, I am mainly concerned with the long-term health of this game. The community is fractured into PVE and PVP camps. The players really think ZoS does not understand its own game because they wont stick to their guns. Hopefully, sometime, somehow it will get fixed. (Or maybe I am just tired and this will all feel better in the morning. Sorry for rambling.)

MornaBaine

Although I WANT to see IC, since I quickly discovered that I don't like how PvP is done in this game and I resent that all the best dyes are PvP rewards, I won't be going near it for a couple of months at least. We'll see what happens in that time.

Lexynide

Techlisp wrote: »

So PvE players don't do PVP because they cannot bring themselves to kill another player?
If you don't do PvP, don't buy IC it is that simple. Pretend it never happened.

As I said above, there are two dungeons which don't fall under PvP content no matter how you look at it. And yet they're inside "PvP folk DLC". I'm a PvE player, I want dungeons. Why do I have to pay 25$ for two dungeons?

The Uninvited wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

One of the major problems about this update is people's absolute refusal to even try and set foot into Imperial City, even in a group.

Well spoken, this is the major problem. Not the update itself.
@Darlgon & @Lexynide : The two dungeons are indeed PVE but accessible without running into PVP players. My main reason for purchasing this DLC is the two new dungeons, my second reason is because PVP is fun from time to time. You should try it!

It's funny when people assume something and pretend they know it all. Because they don't, and here's why: I was logging into PTS from time to time, first two weeks regularly. Some things were nice but it is a curate's egg: those nice things were mixed multiple levels of grind and need-whole-army-of-players-to-do-this-event. It would be alright, if not for reasons I've mentioned in my post above. I wouldn't be complaining before trying it out myself.
I don't mind hard and challenging content. I mind zergs and grinds, and IC is a combination of two.

Psilent

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

This update is for PvPers. Sorry, it's not for PvErs, and the concern should not be with the PvE crowd. Orsinium is coming soon, that will be the next PvE update.

That being said, I played with a PvE friend today, and he was having a blast. I think IC offers the best balance for PvE and PvP to mesh together. It's extremely fun in there.

And coming from a person who could one-shot a person for 26k+ in 1.6, I'm loving the damage changes in 1.7. It's made fights more fun for me. We'll see how things end up eventually, but this, this is a fun update.

I agree with everything said here. I had a blast in IC yesterday, can't wait to get home from work and play again. Going to try out a light armor Magicka DK build.

I will say that I am being conservative on my Tel'var stones, once I hit 1000 I bank 900 of them. Ran into a few AD groups of 20+ on Thornblade. Mist form is my friend!

Having a blast though!

Moonshadow66

MornaBaine wrote: »

Although I WANT to see IC, since I quickly discovered that I don't like how PvP is done in this game and I resent that all the best dyes are PvP rewards, I won't be going near it for a couple of months at least. We'll see what happens in that time.

Welcome to the club!
And as someone who loves to craft new/different combinations of armor and to try different colors, I agree on the dyes thing as well. So many awesome ones which I'll never get to see on any of my characters' armor.

Avenias

Ok let me repeat my prediction again. 1month of zerg fest. After that pvp guilds will build an alliance and will take turns to farm ic, while blocking out everyone else not in their inner circle. 2months give and take and it will become a ghost town, where u need to ask permision from the gate keepers to enter ic, or pay them a ransom to enter the grinding spot.

Ravens-Sonata

So Let me Understand this -- The Imperial DLC is primarily PvP???

Im a PvE'r, I mainly do everything solo as finding a group is nearly impossible,

I was considering getting the new DLC, but if its PvP based -- Then arent us PvE's left out if we dont wish to PvP?

I realize this wont be on XB1 til 9-15, but I thought there was going to be both areas, but by the way it sounds - this is for the PvP'rs

The Uninvited

Lexynide wrote: »

Techlisp wrote: »

I'm a PvE player, I want dungeons. Why do I have to pay 25$ for two dungeons?

The Uninvited wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

One of the major problems about this update is people's absolute refusal to even try and set foot into Imperial City, even in a group.

Well spoken, this is the major problem. Not the update itself.
@Darlgon & @Lexynide : The two dungeons are indeed PVE but accessible without running into PVP players. My main reason for purchasing this DLC is the two new dungeons, my second reason is because PVP is fun from time to time. You should try it!

It's funny when people assume something and pretend they know it all. Because they don't, and here's why: I was logging into PTS from time to time, first two weeks regularly. Some things were nice but it is a curate's egg: those nice things were mixed multiple levels of grind and need-whole-army-of-players-to-do-this-event. It would be alright, if not for reasons I've mentioned in my post above. I wouldn't be complaining before trying it out myself.
I don't mind hard and challenging content. I mind zergs and grinds, and IC is a combination of two.

I never assumed something or pretended to know it all. I just said that the two dungeons can still be entered without running into enemy players. And yeah, 25 bucks is a lot for two dungeons but at least it's less than a special mount.

I like pvp from time to time but, like you, I don't care much for zergs. But still my main reason for purchase will be the two dungeons. Kudos for trying out the PTS first before complaining, and I understand your point of view. I just don't share it with you.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

I will continue to never understand the prevailing mindset of "I'm a PVEer only."

I do both PVP and PVE 50/50. So people can kill your character, and take some stones. Big deal. It's not the end of the world. Worst case you waste an hour riding your horse. I'm only a VR6 and I kill VR14s all the time. All you have to do is have some patience and pick your spots. If you see a big Zerg coming just hide until it passes, it's not that tough.

Yes, sometimes stuff happens and PVP can get frustrating. Avoiding a good section of what is probably your favorite game because you're effectively seeing monsters under the bed (champion points, God like characters, gankers, zergs) that aren't nearly as bad as some doomsayers say is silly though. Brush yourself off and try again.

Maybe I'm weird but when I see a frustrating challenge I attack it to get better at whatever I'm doing. Avoiding things made no one better ever at anything.

Now feel free to call me a troll and flame me for not understanding your opinions.

Tandor

Can we get rid of the notion that people don't choose to PvP because they are afraid of it? That is so much nonsense. Most people who don't PvP base that decision either on past experience of PvP or else on a simple preference for PvE questing. Either way it's nothing to do with fear, any more than it is with some PvPers who dislike PvE questing but aren't afraid of it, they just don't like it. That's how it is with most non-PvPers, they just don't like PvP.

I have PvP'd in the past but no longer have any interest in it, I simply don't play MMOs for that aspect and much prefer questing. I guess being in my middle 60s in real life may be a factor in that. However, the reason I won't be going to IC at this stage at least is because I don't have any VR characters and if I get any xp in IC it will just make my characters even more over-leveled for the base content than they already are. My focus now is on getting one or two characters to a level where I can enjoy Orsinium when that comes out without having the same problem, as that is much more my style of game. In the meantime it would be really great if we could have an option to disable or slow xp gain, and especially if we could disable the xp boost under ESO Plus. Boosted xp might be useful at VR level but it's a confounded nuisance from 1-50.

Zershar_Vemod

tl;der