Seasonal Cap on CP -- Alternate Idea

Phinix1 · August 2015

Vanzen wrote: »

I always start my day in Eso by using my enlightment to get my 1cp. it takes like 10/15 minutes, then I do pvp like 4/5 hours.
I have 335 cp. There is no way w/o grinding to get more than 1.5 cp a day wich is already a lot.
I ve recently lvled a new char to v14 and in the process got a nice chunk of cp, so i know that you can get like the OP says like 3cp per hours grinding, but in my opinion, this is not playing, its "working" and mind numbing. Why one would do that every day baffles me. My 15 minutes grinding everyday is already getting on my nerves enough ...
I think the cap for this dlc should be 360 to unlock the first 120 passive. And then so on : 360 cp each new dlc.

I too believe 600 per DLC is WAY too high for 90% of players, which is the whole point of changing this: to kill the grind gap and make CP work for more than the minority doing extreme grinding which most find mind numbingly tedious, boring, and offensive.

I am hardly "casual" either. I have 6 v14's and a couple v9-ish.

300-360 per "season" feels right to me as well.

Other than that I agree with most of these suggestions; boosting the amount of enlightenment you can save up, slowing CP gain once at cap exponentially to deter hyper grinders from hogging grind spots even after cap (and encouraging them to do something else for a change for their own sanity's sake), and exponentially boosting CP gain based on how far below the current cap you are.

Is there any timeline for getting this in-game? Is this (hopefully) a "soon" thing or are we talking 4-6 months?

I would like to think I might come back to ESO one day.

/lurk

Sacadon · August 2015

Tyr wrote: »

First of all..If you have over 1000CP and you have a full time job in software development, you botted to get there. Grinding 2 million XP per day for 180 days is impossible unless you're playing at least 10 hours a day on average, so good job on cheating/lying.

And before you try to defend yourself, ZOS has stated that there are less than 35 people with above 650CP as of a couple of weeks ago and the highest CP player had less than 1200 as of a couple of weeks ago, so if you have over 1000CP you are among a handful of people in the whole game who cheated to get there.

ZOS was simply wrong. And while @Vashna needs no defending, I can confirm that no bots where used as we grinded on occasion and many times I went to lesser XP areas because Vashna was grinding the preferred area. If anyone saw this it was clearly not botting.

Regardless, naming as usual makes the namer look bad. Many people play 10+ hours/day which is a personal choice any really not ours to understand and therefor judge.

Tyr wrote: »

As far as your estimates for the average player go, they are just as ludicrous.

The average player never made it to VR14 and has stopped playing long ago.
The average active casual player(who plays at least once a week) in any given MMO plays an average of 10 hours per week or less so they will just barely be keeping up with the 1 enlightened CP per day.
ZOS had to increase the enlightened CP buffer from 3 CP to 12 a while ago and they wouldn't have done this if a significant number of people weren't falling behind the 2 CP every 6 days marker, much less 2CP every day.

I don't agree with how you defined average player, especially if you apply it to PvP only... Most casual PvPers that have played ESO since day 1 have made it to VR14 on at least one toon a long time ago.

MrBeatDown · August 2015

Im surprised no one has come forward and revealed (or maybe no one did it yet) that they have a Guild character that they pass around and make people grind on for at least an hour to have one of these God Mode CP characters. I would think that a tight trusted guild of a few people would be able to hit 3600 cp in a few months......... Just think about it, it would be on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, only down during patches, always hitting the top grind zone, maxing out on xp. It would be beast.

Waffennacht · August 2015

Excuse me people, but someone should mention us console players...

3 months ish is how much time we have had. By your calculations thats roughly 180 CP only...

You need to consider us and that our CP points are no where near your PC's. So any changes concerning CP will have more of an impact on us.

(They should never have allowed the transfer) but that's too late and they can't make it up.

Just please remember us (the majority of the player base) thank you

CaptainObvious · August 2015

Heh, just wait till: Crown Store: Scroll of the Champion : 15 points is available.

Purchasable until you hit a min cap to get you caught up with the Joneses.

Faulgor · August 2015

How is this an alternate idea to a seasonal cap? This is exactly what they have proposed so far.

Personally I'm still in favor of a limited amount of active champion passives.

danno8 · August 2015

"Tyr wrote: »

First of all..If you have over 1000CP and you have a full time job in software development, you botted to get there. Grinding 2 million XP per day for 180 days is impossible unless you're playing at least 10 hours a day on average, so good job on cheating/lying.

And before you try to defend yourself, ZOS has stated that there are less than 35 people with above 650CP as of a couple of weeks ago and the highest CP player had less than 1200 as of a couple of weeks ago, so if you have over 1000CP you are among a handful of people in the whole game who cheated to get there.

Clearly you are wrong when you read the OP's response to your post. You should apologize.

Without even having a good grinding build I can easily get 1 CP every 2 hours of grinding Bankorai zombies, which is less than half the time you state. Mind-numbing sure, but so far from difficult or optimized.

danno8 · August 2015

The OP's ideas are very good and is basically what many of us have been saying from the start. A strong catch-up mechanic in addition to a limit to how many CP's you can earn and/or spend.

Grinders can still grind and will always be ahead of those who don't, but with a more narrow gap. Simple and fair.

Vanzen · August 2015

danno8 wrote: »

"Tyr wrote: »

First of all..If you have over 1000CP and you have a full time job in software development, you botted to get there. Grinding 2 million XP per day for 180 days is impossible unless you're playing at least 10 hours a day on average, so good job on cheating/lying.

And before you try to defend yourself, ZOS has stated that there are less than 35 people with above 650CP as of a couple of weeks ago and the highest CP player had less than 1200 as of a couple of weeks ago, so if you have over 1000CP you are among a handful of people in the whole game who cheated to get there.

Clearly you are wrong when you read the OP's response to your post. You should apologize.

Without even having a good grinding build I can easily get 1 CP every 2 hours of grinding Bankorai zombies, which is less than half the time you state. Mind-numbing sure, but so far from difficult or optimized.

From what I saw the last month from my grinding to v14 with already 250 cp in the Pocket, you get easily 2cp per hour if you have one of the too few good grinding spots for yourself and a partner.

Vanzen · August 2015

Vanzen wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

"Tyr wrote: »

First of all..If you have over 1000CP and you have a full time job in software development, you botted to get there. Grinding 2 million XP per day for 180 days is impossible unless you're playing at least 10 hours a day on average, so good job on cheating/lying.

And before you try to defend yourself, ZOS has stated that there are less than 35 people with above 650CP as of a couple of weeks ago and the highest CP player had less than 1200 as of a couple of weeks ago, so if you have over 1000CP you are among a handful of people in the whole game who cheated to get there.

Clearly you are wrong when you read the OP's response to your post. You should apologize.

Without even having a good grinding build I can easily get 1 CP every 2 hours of grinding Bankorai zombies, which is less than half the time you state. Mind-numbing sure, but so far from difficult or optimized.

From what I saw the last month from my grinding to v14 with already 250 cp in the Pocket, you get easily 2cp per hour if you have one of the too few good grinding spots for yourself and a partner. With xp boost though. More necessitates the perfect build and spawn rotation : doable but tricky.

WillhelmBlack · August 2015

300 CP's. The dream.

danno8 · August 2015

Vanzen wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

"Tyr wrote: »

First of all..If you have over 1000CP and you have a full time job in software development, you botted to get there. Grinding 2 million XP per day for 180 days is impossible unless you're playing at least 10 hours a day on average, so good job on cheating/lying.

And before you try to defend yourself, ZOS has stated that there are less than 35 people with above 650CP as of a couple of weeks ago and the highest CP player had less than 1200 as of a couple of weeks ago, so if you have over 1000CP you are among a handful of people in the whole game who cheated to get there.

Clearly you are wrong when you read the OP's response to your post. You should apologize.

Without even having a good grinding build I can easily get 1 CP every 2 hours of grinding Bankorai zombies, which is less than half the time you state. Mind-numbing sure, but so far from difficult or optimized.

From what I saw the last month from my grinding to v14 with already 250 cp in the Pocket, you get easily 2cp per hour if you have one of the too few good grinding spots for yourself and a partner.

Exactly.

That guy was just so far off with his "10 hours per day average" in order to get 2 CP's per day. And then to call the OP a cheater and liar.

Someone with guts would come on and apologize.

Gidorick · August 2015

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

300 CP's. The dream.

I've come around to this way of thinking but... the opposite direction. keep the max at 3600 CPs... but increase the number of points that can be placed in each star by 5. That would mean there could be 18,000 possible locations for CPs.

marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO · August 2015

Vashna wrote: »

There's no point in hiding my bias -- I'm one of the players with over 1000 CP. With that out of the way, I do recognize and accept the fact that the Champion System is a rather simplistic, boring, poorly balanced system that should have had limits/caps on day one. However, all indications from ZOS (in recent ESO Live broadcasts as well as the PTS templates) point to an initial seasonal cap of 300 CP. I think this amount is ridiculously low so I would like to suggest a different calculation...

First, some key points:

1. ZOS once stated that they wanted the Champion System to be a long-term solution for the next 10 years. (I'm not sure if this stance still holds, but anyone in software development -- myself being one of them -- knows that you should never design or expect an implementation or solution to last more than 5 years.)
2. ZOS stated that they expected the average player to gain 2 CP per day.

However, consider the fact the CP system was released in Update 6 on 3/3/2015, and Update 7 will be released almost exactly 6 months later on 8/31/2016. That means Update 6 lasted 180 days. At 2 CP per day (plus the additional 70 CP that many players started with on 3/3), the average player should have 420, by ZOS' own estimates. This means the average player is already beyond ZOS' proposed 300 CP cap. Granted, many players don't play the game every single day, but you also have Psijic Ambrosia for significant XP gains, which didn't exist when the CP system first came out.

My suggestion:
A. Assign a cap of 100 CP per month, incremented on the 1st of each month. So, in theory, if the cap is first introduced on 8/31, it would be 600 CP. At this rate, the CP system will last a full 3 years at which point players could attain 3600. That gives ZOS 2.5 years to come up with a better (or at least expanded) system, and if necessary, they can do a CP conversion to a new stat system so people don't lose out on all the XP they acquired.

B. If you stick to ZOS' estimates, the average player would gain 60 CP per month, putting them slightly above the middle for a 100-CP month. This scale is fair because it still provides an opportunity for players to go beyond the average and be rewarded, but not get carried away.

C. Eliminate enlightenment for any player who is currently 2/3 of the CP limit or above. Going back to the 9/1/2015 example of 600 CP, this means anyone that is 400+ CP would no longer get enlightenment, thereby slowing their ascent to the current cap. (This may not seem like much, but if this concept was in place from the beginning, I personally would have 127 CP less than I do now.)

D. Award double enlightenment (2 CP) per day to any player that is between 1/3 and 2/3 of the current cap. In the same 9/1/2015 example, players between 200 and 399 CP would receive 2 enlightenment per day to help them catch up.

E. Award quadruple enlightenment (4 CP) per day to any player less than 1/3 of the current cap. This means any players who rarely play, or more importantly the brand new players starting at 0 CP have a means of catching up by gaining points 4x faster than people at the top. This rate will obviously slow as they eventually climb to the top 1/3.

F. Allow players to bank up to 50 CP worth of enlightenment. This accounts for more than 2 weeks of inactivity for a casual player on the bottom third bracket.

Conclusion:
Starting a seasonal cap at 300 is drastically low for a system that has already been out 6 months. This kind of cap would have made sense back in June/July, but not now. Yes, such a low cap will cripple the top tier with 1k+ CP, so many players won't care about this (or may even rejoice in glee). But there are a large number of players at or above 300 CP also, so you will have many players buying DLCs and not gaining anything. Sticking to 100 per month is reasonable because it gives the CP system a 3-year lifespan, and with DLCs projected to be released by quarter, that's 10-11 DLCs over that timeframe. By then, ZOS should have a better system in place for long-term advancement.

Using an existing mechanic (enlightenment) as a catch-up mechanic should require minimal coding, and it's a mechanic that players are already familiar with. Dividing the player base into thirds (newbies, average, and top tier) keeps things simple while preventing anyone from being the top 1%. (Now they're the top 33%, until the rest catch up.)

Finally, consider that on 10/1, the seasonal cap in my example would increase to 700. This means that players still working toward the 600 CP cap may find themselves dropping from the top 2/3 bracket to the middle third, at which point they start gaining double enlightenment per day to help catch back up. By December this cap would be 900, as the new DLC (Orsinium) rolls out. Players would be able to tap 25% of the 3600 CP system by this point, which is not unreasonable for a system that has been in play for 9 months by then. This also means that players in my situation would remain locked at no CP gain through the rest of 2015, which I think is fair to preserve balance, as long as we can progressively use more and more of the points we already earned while others are given enlightenment bonuses to more easily catch up.

Wow, too overly complicated IE too much work for developers

3 zones with 3 different types of caps..300/600/900+ there done....

WarrioroftheWind_ESO · August 2015

I was going to write my own thread about this but recent full-time is kicking my ass so I'm not as prolific as I used to be.

Has any thought been given to adding trainers like ES games of yore?

Trainers have been a staple in ES games for years, and since Morrowind (the first ES game I ever played) there's always been this option. The way it worked is if you had a skill you completely utterly ignored or wanted to level up to beef up one of your core attributes (Str, Wil, Agi, Int, End, Per, Luck) you had the option of paying gold to a specific NPC to level up said skill. It started out fairly cheap, but once you pass certain thresholds the costs become significantly higher, and even then, once you reach a certain point the trainer tells you they can't help you any further, and you will have to seek out a different trainer of a higher skill level. It served as a decent gold sink and a way to keep boosting stats and levels, since you gained a % of health based on your endurance whenever you leveled, it was something you wanted to kind of do if you were trying to actually play the game without 100% invis/shadow/shield/chameleon xploits and NOT get your ass torn to shreds by high-lvl mobs in Mournhold or Solstheim. In Morrowind you could level up practically infinitely as long as you had enough gold by boosting the main stat for a skill past 100 using a spell or ability, but the gold requirement sort of capped out regardless depending on your mercantile skill and the trainers disposition.

Fast forward to Oblivion. Well the highest you could possibly get was I think lvl 54 because the devs there felt infinite leveling was silly, and you were silly for wanting 100 in all stats, and wanting to find a way to spend all that gold you had after raiding EVERY dungeon in the game and selling EVERY set of ebony/glass/daedric armor you got your mitts on was silly, and after buying EVERY house in EVERY town and getting EVERY upgrade you still had enough gold leftover to buy every NPC Beggar a mansion, and you were silly for wanting to spend all that gold. So instead of a reliable money sink, you got a 5-training session-a-day middle finger. I imagine there were mods to remove it, but it still seemed rather dumb.

Anywho in Oblivion you had the same tiered skill level for trainers. You might find a vintner in Skingrad who could train you in Archery, but once you hit a certain level they say, sorry can't train you anyhigher. So you might do some traveling and run into a guy somewhere else in Skingrad who could train you a bit higher, and once you hit that, your travels might take you to Anvil where you meet a guy who can train you even higher. But once you hit "Expert" level, you're told "hey, there's this person out int he wilderness who's unmatched with a bow, go talk to them" and once you track down said person, they say "oh I COULD train you for a fee...but you have to prove your stuff" and send you on an errand. Do said errand and you can pay gold to max out your skill up till the cap of 100.

Skyrim later down the line decided to say screw that to master trainers entirely. If you want to cap out a skill, you have to do it the hard way, so for the last 10 points you'd have to either use those skills in your combat or grind them up somehow. Bethesda decided to not be silly and add in the Legendary system which allowed skill resets and basically infinite leveling past 81, and there are mods that remove the silly 5-a-day cap on training.

Infinite leveling would be silly in an MMO of course. There are caps, there are supposed to be ceilings.

BUT what I'm thinking is what if they can apply some of those principles from various games to ESO somehow.

Say you're a complete 100% new player. The game's been out 2 years or so, and CP's are all the rage. Well you're not a fan of grinding, and you just can't get enough XP from actually PLAYING the game to cut the mustard. If there were optional trainers, a player could spend gold they earn to catch up, and I imagine gold is much easier to come by. My alt hadn't pvped much at all except for a few times in the 30's and did quests from 1-50, and had about 250k gold after both quests and vendoring.

So you visit a trainer who specializes in stealth disciplines (thief), or spellweaving (mage) or melee (Warrior). You can pay perhaps 50 gold for your very first CP ever, but it takes time for these lessons to sink in, so come back in an hour or two, or maybe more for your next lesson. The charge increases incrementally however, and if you use every session available, the gold cost will be significantly higher by the day's end. You can keep paying as long as you have the gold for it, BUT eventually you'll hit a cap, say the 10cp point mark since that's when you get your first major star. The trainer will direct you to someone else, since he's a 'Journeyman" trainer and you need a "Adept". The cycle continues with the Adept trainer until you qualify for your 30pt star, and by then the gold cost is fairly high, say in the 500-1000g range per point, perhaps even more. The trainer says there's an "Expert" trainer who can get you to the 75pt mark, and you'll have to shell out for that of course. Once you hit max for Expert, you're given a quest to track down the Master trainer for that field and have to do a quest. This lets you train up to 120 and onward, but you'll be paying BIG bucks for every point, I'm thinking 10, 15, maybe even 50k per point.

Keep in mind because CP's are account-shared, you can't have your main maxed out and then start a lvl 1 to take advantage of low training costs, since trainers will recognize that you're skilled as it is.

It would make for a valid gold sink, seeing as how I've run into players who brag about having 13 million gold (after trying to scam me out of armor pieces...), and gold really isn't that hard to come by. Legerdemain introduced pretty engaging gold 'farming', and in fact it actually got nerfed in some degrees, but still remains a valid way to gain income if you don't like grinding mobs or pvping. If you DO like grinding mobs, you'll be getting XP anywho as well as tons of loot to vendor or sell in your trade guilds. If you DON'T like grinding OR stealing because you have strange morale quandaries, you can be a hardcore crafter who provides their trade to others in exchange for gold. Potions are always in high demand, as well as buff foods and various armor sets. If you don't like either of the above, there's always pvping, and for those who say PVP isn't a good way to get gold, horse ***. A good PVPer will have more AP than they know what to do with, and a steady stream of AP income just from doing what they love. There's always been a good market for high-lvl pvp-vendor specific gear that players covet even fi they lack the AP to get it themselves. Players pay out the nose for goodie bags or set-piece armor, weapons, and jewlery, and even low-lvl players can take advantage of a pvper's spare AP to gear up.

Either way you look at it, the CP system opened a huge can of worms, and it's not so much the haves vs the have nots as it is the gulf between a new player and a veteran who has played every day since launch is friggin big, and only getting bigger.

The proposed cap should definitely be high enough that a player who has put in the dedicated work to gain every point be able to benefit from them, but as well there should be more options available for a fresh player or even a casual player who just can't invest as much time to catch up on points without grinding ad nauseum in the same dungeon everyone and their literal mom is in, and then they tell you to gtfo because you're 'leaching xp' or some BS.

I tried to grind for cp. I just couldn't do it. Not only were the 'best grind spots' constantly monopolized, it bored the *** out of me. Not the actual killing of mobs, I could do that pretty well, but it just wasn't the experience I was looking for. It's fully stupid that you can get more xp killing mobs in the same small room for 1 hour than you can running a vet dungeon or trail, or pvp for that matter. Objective xp is peanuts compared to grinding, and even townies award more xp than capturing keeps.

Like I said most days I pass out after work and sleep myself out for the next shift, but nitpick over this as you choose.

tino.antoninieb17_ESO · August 2015

In my opinion whole CP concept is obvious failure. Finding way out of it will be difficult or almost impossible.
ZOS designed system which gone out of control coz they forgot to make breaks on their car. Now that car is reaching 200 m/h and they want to make solution to keep their passengers safe. What is not helping here is ZOS average response time to game breaking things .For example they are still fixing bugs which are 6-8 month in the game. Those bugs are now 50% of the game.We still dont know where is the line which separates their intentions and their incapability to sort out main game problems.
CP system is just another brick in the wall of ZOS mistakes and delusions.
I am playing this game for 1,5 year and still cant recognize driver in this car and where we go. I am still here just coz of some passengers.

Grunim · August 2015

If DLCs are scheduled for quarterly delivery and if the intent is to have the CP cap be raised every 3 months, then I believe raising the cap by 300 each quarter would not make the CP system feel any better for the vast majority of players. Heck, I'm still a daily player with the exception of having taken some vacations and I began with 70 CP in March and I haven't reached 300 CP yet in 5 months time and I only play veteran characters too.

IMHO ESOTU should be a hobby, a place to enjoy oneself, not a job filled with time sensitive obligations and quotas.

The notion of keeping up with the Joneses leaves a sour taste in my mouth and it is discouraging me to play this game as much as I did. I can't believe I'm the only one who is feeling this way with the CP system.

reklaw67 · August 2015

Original poster... why should anyone who truly loves pvp feel that they have to grind pve mobs to maintain anywhere close to the HIGH cap that you propose to set.

Zeni has the #'s. I dont care what they thought people would earn on average.. What are they actually earning? I'm guessing Zeni based their intial 300 comment on what they actually see people earning.

And also Zeni should consider "will potential new pvp players buy into a game where it takes so long to be even close to a level playing field with others.. and have to spend months pve'ing to get there".

If they want to have a game that last long term.. (this means you encourage new players to partake of the game) I dont see how they do this without at least starting new players at 2/3 CP of whatever the new beginning tier is.

I'm sorry OP but this is why they definitely need to just offer NO CP campaigns or campaigns where everyone starts with a base # (and you cant add to it).. like 300.. this would allow players to have more interesting builds without introducing needless imbalances. I know these would be the most popular campaigns. I firmly believe most pvpers do not enjoy the hours you must have spent pve'ing to grind cp to such an absurd (imo) amount of cp.

Huggalump · August 2015

As long as there are CP, new players will always feel second rate and see a grind wall in front of them that's unprecedented in gaming. Any CP cap system will help current players catch up, but does hardly anything to help a future new player a year or two from now.

Maybe everyone is okay with this, but I just thought I should make sure we're aware of it.

phairdon · August 2015

Find it very interesting players could have 1000+ already, must take a helluva lot of grinding for hours on end.
Without boosts, I average around one CP per day, currently sitting around the 250 mark, through questing on alts, grinding one my vr14 & vr12 characters. This cap, is it across the board? As in all aspects of ESO (pve, pvp, public dungeons, trials & so forth) or just for pvp? Because most discussions about CP appear to centre around pvp.
Still think an easy solution is to take CP out of pvp altogether & leave it as is, for all other aspects of this game.

P3ZZL3 · August 2015

I won't comment on all the intricacies of the CP System and potential caps, as to be honest I'm not to understanding of them at a technical level. However, here's some stats for you from my side as a player.

I'm in my 40's and work 50+ hours a week (as an average), Monday to Friday.
I start at 8am and finish around 6pm, sometimes later.
I'm married.
I signed up to ESO on January 3rd 2015 and this is the first ever MMORPG I've ever played. Always been more of a FPS kinda guy with TF2/CSS and the likes.

Toon 1: 36 days, 5hrs
Toon 2: 15 days, 10hrs
Toon 3: 12 days, 16hours

Total CP: 299

So, in approximately 8 mths (give or take a day or two), I've played a total of 1543 hrs of ESO (GOD that's a scary figure!!).

That means, I earn approximately .2 of a CP per hour, or 200k XP per hour.

I do grind now and then, but certainly not to the level of some by a long shot. I also love to do the dungeons and the trials.

I would class myself as a relatively mid level player.

*shrugs* Just some genuine data for you guys to ponder on

On a side note:

I run 2 templars and a sorc.
I've been wanting to work on a tank from a trial/dungeon perspective, and started one up tonight & I'm now at level 10, as I refuse to hard grind him up as it's mind numbing.
The mount is slower than walking, and it pisses me off to be honest.
I've been dreading having to do this as the grind is just mind numbing - however, if I want a tank, I have no choice but to spend a very long time not playing, or enjoying the game, but grinding grinding grinding.

Just sayin..

Skcarkden · August 2015

Waffennacht wrote: »

Excuse me people, but someone should mention us console players...

3 months ish is how much time we have had. By your calculations thats roughly 180 CP only...

You need to consider us and that our CP points are no where near your PC's. So any changes concerning CP will have more of an impact on us.

(They should never have allowed the transfer) but that's too late and they can't make it up.

Just please remember us (the majority of the player base) thank you

Not true, ZoS were stupid enough to grant PC to console transfers so people like Vashna (not intended as a insult, just saying people who do grind very very much could be here)could also be present in consoles while all the people who waited till console release to even buy a copy are completely at a disadvantage.

Heck, if i knew they were gonna do that i'd have gotten PC copy, and buy lots and lots of daedric hearts for 250 gold each and be rich on console for 7k each and thrash people in PvP being one of the few on console already with CP because some dev thought it was intelligent to allow transfers to a new system so no one can truly start on equal footing.

Halfwitte · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

This is just too good to only get a /lurk....

First off, great post @Vashna! This is the kind of post I love reading - it's well thought out and you've articulated your concerns perfectly. Really appreciate the time you took to write it.

Couple of quick notes:
Just because the templates on PTS have 300 CP, doesn't mean that's what the cap will be when the system is released.

We know the break down of CP per player and will make sure the cap we choose impacts as few people as possible.

The current design allows you to keep earning CP past the cap, just at a slower pace. You will only be able to spend CP up to the cap though. (i.e. - no lost CP and you can keep grinding away if that's what you love doing)

Leveraging enlightenment is a good idea. We need to do more to bootstrap people up though.

Again, thanks for the post! Keep 'em coming!

A cap is asinine. Another band aid fix meant to ruin the game and drive away players. Why put the system in place if you're not going to reward the players who are taking advantage of it? You're just steadily ruining this game with inexplicable nerfs and caps on hard earned CP, because of the incessant complaining from the PVP community so you wreck everything else that is PVE, because a few PvPers can't kill the OP with a 1000+ CP. I tested the 3600 CP build before CP released and anything over 1200 CP did little to help a specific build since after that the rest of it is just frivolous. Going all the way to 3600 is just ridiculous. It's unrealistic to think players are going to go all the way to the cap just for the fun of it especially if you're going to cap their CP usage to artificially create content and lengthen the time they play your game.

#VoteEricWrobel4President2016
"Bringing Fun back to America 1 explicable Nerf and CP Cap at a time."

Sausage · August 2015

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

This is just too good to only get a /lurk....

First off, great post @Vashna! This is the kind of post I love reading - it's well thought out and you've articulated your concerns perfectly. Really appreciate the time you took to write it.

Couple of quick notes:
Just because the templates on PTS have 300 CP, doesn't mean that's what the cap will be when the system is released.

We know the break down of CP per player and will make sure the cap we choose impacts as few people as possible.

The current design allows you to keep earning CP past the cap, just at a slower pace. You will only be able to spend CP up to the cap though. (i.e. - no lost CP and you can keep grinding away if that's what you love doing)

Leveraging enlightenment is a good idea. We need to do more to bootstrap people up though.

Again, thanks for the post! Keep 'em coming!

Give something for those players and this works. So first thing is to reach cap, then start the fight for the whos best, even simple Title would do it I think. Also double CP for new and casuals is way too slow, let them feel like they are exploiting/cheating and they love it more (love = play longer = more money) reality hits when next seasons start anyway.

Sausage · August 2015

Sausage wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

This is just too good to only get a /lurk....

First off, great post @Vashna! This is the kind of post I love reading - it's well thought out and you've articulated your concerns perfectly. Really appreciate the time you took to write it.

Couple of quick notes:
Just because the templates on PTS have 300 CP, doesn't mean that's what the cap will be when the system is released.

We know the break down of CP per player and will make sure the cap we choose impacts as few people as possible.

The current design allows you to keep earning CP past the cap, just at a slower pace. You will only be able to spend CP up to the cap though. (i.e. - no lost CP and you can keep grinding away if that's what you love doing)

Leveraging enlightenment is a good idea. We need to do more to bootstrap people up though.

Again, thanks for the post! Keep 'em coming!

Give something for those players and this works.

Damnit, double post, its my first!

WolffenBloodseeker · August 2015

best solution in my opinion? make the player have to select one active star in each constelation + the passives been aways active once you unlocked them, this way grinders can grind to their hearts content and get the top stars if they want but the system won't be able to ruin the game's balance on the long term

DaveMoeDee · August 2015

Tyr wrote: »

The average player never made it to VR14 and has stopped playing long ago.
The average active casual player(who plays at least once a week) in any given MMO plays an average of 10 hours per week or less so they will just barely be keeping up with the 1 enlightened CP per day.
ZOS had to increase the enlightened CP buffer from 3 CP to 12 a while ago and they wouldn't have done this if a significant number of people weren't falling behind the 2 CP every 6 days marker, much less 2CP every day.

I have 3 VR characters and I play daily, but I've earned probably only a one or two CP in the last month. I have been leveling other characters and I tend to not do content that gets me XP. My enlightenment buffer is pegged to full.

My highest level character is still only VR11. It hit VR10 4 months after launch, I unsubbed, and it has gained one more rank since I returned the day Tamriel Unlimited started.

Thing is, someone like me doesn't care how many CP other people have. I don't care if there are people sitting at 3600. Doesn't bother me. If ZOS decides that CP needs adjustments for competitive reasons, no problem. But the reason shouldn't be 'for the casuals'.

Also, the whole season idea won't matter down the line when people join the game while others are at 3600 already.

Sausage · August 2015

"The average player never made it to VR14 and has stopped playing long ago."

You guys are lying to yourself if you think there isnt casuals or average players at vr14 too. Cyrodil leaderboards is perfect example what kind of separation theres already, so you guys are saying this game should be only for those top20 players? Im having myself casual period pf time now as Im recharging my batteries for IC.

Kaliki · August 2015

Sacadon wrote: »

many times I went to lesser XP areas because Vashna was grinding the preferred area. If anyone saw this it was clearly not botting.

This is one of the problems about grinding in my opinion. @Vashna 's math is right that you can theoretically grind very effectively, but only 2 players per grind spot. This only gives a handful of very efficient players the possibility to grind out CP, while the others get to hear GTFO or worse if they happen to walk through a grind spot.

You have to be extremely creative and look for certain zoned areas or delves with no XP nerf if you want to even be able to grind.

Vashna wrote:

This means the average player is already beyond ZOS' proposed 300 CP cap.

I doubt that even this is true.
I would say an average player will not get much more than 1 CP per day, for the simple fact that the average player does not and does not want to grind XP, and to get a second CP you have to grind as it is barely possible to do with quests; maybe for PvPers with PvP quests, but not doing the daily dungeons and then some more casual playing.

I'm playing regularly and have 245 CP as of now. I have always tried to keep up with enlightenment and earn a little more XP even. Like @DaveMoeDee, I do not care if anyone has 3600 CP already.
No matter what changes or caps will be implemented, the fact that a player with high CP will have an advantage over a player with low CP will persist. Either accept it or don't play the game. Not giving in to whiners worked for Eve Online, perhaps it could work for ESO as well?

reklaw67 · August 2015

Kaliki wrote: »

No matter what changes or caps will be implemented, the fact that a player with high CP will have an advantage over a player with low CP will persist. Either accept it or don't play the game. Not giving in to whiners worked for Eve Online, perhaps it could work for ESO as well?

Well not a fan.. but if you want to throw out other mmo's... WoW still has millions of subscribers and a vibrant pvp base.. and yet they do their utmost to not introduce any long term pvp imbalances. In fact any such notion is always shot down overwhelmingly. The only pvp gaps in WoW are when a new season starts. If you join late it may take you 6 to 10 weeks and then you are on exactly the same level.. leaving only skill as the difference maker.

Anyway let that guy with 1200 keep all of his cp's. I could care less.. as long as Zos introduces No cp campaigns and perhaps campaigns where everyone starts and finishes with a set cp #. He can grind till his eyes bleeds because once they introduce those campaigns he will be playing with himself or a very small # of people. Given the choice between campaigns with imbalances and those without.. I guarantee a majority will want to play without.

I dont expect advantages in any other games I play. In fact it would make those games quite boring. I realize this is an mmo but if the pvp is fun you dont need a system where grinders can become more powerful then people who actually spend their time pvping. Shadowbane also had little to no advantages based on how long you played or how much you grind pve mobs.. and yet the loyal player base loved the game. The pvp was awesome. No need to introduce imbalances. Skill alone decided fights.