lordrichter wrote: »

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

The ability to change classes.

I am trying to figure out why they decided to have classes in the first place. It would have been so much easier, for everyone, if they had just gone the skills route and let people do whatever they wanted.

That would've been perfectly fine, but they just had to go the generic, cliche MMO way and add classes.

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

I refuse to go through all that [snip] again. It's taken me two weeks just to get to level 40. Or at least it feels like it's been two weeks. The reason to have it is because players want it. There's no reason not to have it.

1.How did it take you to level 40 to realize you didn't like the templar class?
2.If the vamp/templar combo was immersion breaking for you, why did you seek out a bite and become vamp?
3.There are quite a few reasons not to have it.
4.You say players want it, I would venture to guess the majority don't, or think it's not worth ZOS's time to implement it.
5.Once you swapped, you would be a level 40 back to square one with class skills. It would be easier to re-roll and level the skills as you go again.

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Ha! Ridiculous for an mmo he says.Not many mmo's have this option. If the option was there you would come here whining about having to level the new skills. Also your last point is so incredibly moronic I can barely think of a response, but I'll try. My templar is not a vampire because...gasp...I didn't make him one. You chose to take the bite on your templar and now your mad because it doesn't mesh? Why not get cured? I do not believe for a second it took you to vet levels or wherever you're currently at to discover you didn't like the templar class. Yes this is an ES game, but it's also an mmo. You can't just have total build/skill freedom/class freedom all at once. There's a million other people in your game world now, you are no longer the Dovahkiin Rinnegan.

"You chose to take a bite on your Templar", no. I chose to take a bite on my character. My single, one and only character. I will never make a second one because that's annoying. Not having the option to change classes isn't encouraging me to reroll, it's just pissing me off and I'm less likely to play long term. I don't have "a main and alts". I have one character and I don't like the Templar/Vampire mix. I do like being a Vampire though. So what's the logical solution for someone who only wants one character, wants them to be a Vampire, and doesn't like their class? It's a class change. Seeing how no one has presented an actual reason as to why it's a bad idea, I still stand by the feature.

You took a bite on your one and only character who was a templar! That's on you. But..but..I wanted to be a vamp, just not a temp/vamp. The point you're avoiding here is that you don't like the templar class. Vampire is a skill line, not a class. You were unhappy with temp long before the vamp bite. So why did you not stop at say, level 10-20, which takes literally no time to get to, and say, "nope, need to redo this before I get too far, templar is not a class I can enjoy."

I don't like the Templar class BECAUSE my character is a Vampire. I was level 10 when I had them turned, naturally I didn't want to give up something that was so difficult for me to achieve and I was new to the game. So I just continued and ignored it for a while, but now it's starting to get on my nerves

Why are people assuming you'd be back to square one? It'd be just like when you reset your skill points. Once you change classes, the SP would go back to you and you'd reuse them as if you'd reset the skills.

[snip]

No. You got about 1/4 of it right. Just forget the reason I want to change classes, it's irrelevant. Goodness, what is wrong with you people? My personal reasoning for wanting to change classes doesn't matter. Also no, you'd keep the same levels. Why would they have you start over? If that were the case, then yeah making a new character would make more sense. But that isn't what's being proposed. The skill points would go back to you after changing classes and you'd use them accordingly.

Im talking class skills. Change classes and you would have zero levels in any of the three skill lines of the nrw class. If a dk changes to temp, he has a level 1 aedriatic spear line for instance. They would never artificially bump a skill line you've never used. Weapon and armor skills progress may remain.

[edited to remove quote]

Not too hyped on the idea of being able to swap classes, but being able to spend another skill point to have access to both versions of a morph without having to respec would be nice. Just go into the character screen and toggle it as the situation depends.

BaconMagic wrote: »

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

BaconMagic wrote: »

Someone explain to me how a classless MMO would work?

The same way a classless non-MMO RPG works. You don't have them.

[snip]

Why in the world do you think set, static classes are necessary for an MMO? MMO is Massive Multiplayer Online, that's all that means. If a regular RPG can avoid classes, then why can't an MMORPG?

[edited to remove quote]

Callous2208 wrote: »

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

I refuse to go through all that [snip] again. It's taken me two weeks just to get to level 40. Or at least it feels like it's been two weeks. The reason to have it is because players want it. There's no reason not to have it.

1.How did it take you to level 40 to realize you didn't like the templar class?
2.If the vamp/templar combo was immersion breaking for you, why did you seek out a bite and become vamp?
3.There are quite a few reasons not to have it.
4.You say players want it, I would venture to guess the majority don't, or think it's not worth ZOS's time to implement it.
5.Once you swapped, you would be a level 40 back to square one with class skills. It would be easier to re-roll and level the skills as you go again.

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Ha! Ridiculous for an mmo he says.Not many mmo's have this option. If the option was there you would come here whining about having to level the new skills. Also your last point is so incredibly moronic I can barely think of a response, but I'll try. My templar is not a vampire because...gasp...I didn't make him one. You chose to take the bite on your templar and now your mad because it doesn't mesh? Why not get cured? I do not believe for a second it took you to vet levels or wherever you're currently at to discover you didn't like the templar class. Yes this is an ES game, but it's also an mmo. You can't just have total build/skill freedom/class freedom all at once. There's a million other people in your game world now, you are no longer the Dovahkiin Rinnegan.

"You chose to take a bite on your Templar", no. I chose to take a bite on my character. My single, one and only character. I will never make a second one because that's annoying. Not having the option to change classes isn't encouraging me to reroll, it's just pissing me off and I'm less likely to play long term. I don't have "a main and alts". I have one character and I don't like the Templar/Vampire mix. I do like being a Vampire though. So what's the logical solution for someone who only wants one character, wants them to be a Vampire, and doesn't like their class? It's a class change. Seeing how no one has presented an actual reason as to why it's a bad idea, I still stand by the feature.

You took a bite on your one and only character who was a templar! That's on you. But..but..I wanted to be a vamp, just not a temp/vamp. The point you're avoiding here is that you don't like the templar class. Vampire is a skill line, not a class. You were unhappy with temp long before the vamp bite. So why did you not stop at say, level 10-20, which takes literally no time to get to, and say, "nope, need to redo this before I get too far, templar is not a class I can enjoy."

I don't like the Templar class BECAUSE my character is a Vampire. I was level 10 when I had them turned, naturally I didn't want to give up something that was so difficult for me to achieve and I was new to the game. So I just continued and ignored it for a while, but now it's starting to get on my nerves

Why are people assuming you'd be back to square one? It'd be just like when you reset your skill points. Once you change classes, the SP would go back to you and you'd reuse them as if you'd reset the skills.

[snip]

No. You got about 1/4 of it right. Just forget the reason I want to change classes, it's irrelevant. Goodness, what is wrong with you people? My personal reasoning for wanting to change classes doesn't matter. Also no, you'd keep the same levels. Why would they have you start over? If that were the case, then yeah making a new character would make more sense. But that isn't what's being proposed. The skill points would go back to you after changing classes and you'd use them accordingly.

Im talking class skills. Change classes and you would have zero levels in any of the three skill lines of the nrw class. If a dk changes to temp, he has a level 1 aedriatic spear line for instance. They would never artificially bump a skill line you've never used. Weapon and armor skills progress may remain.

Why wouldn't they? There's no sense in implementing something that's virtually useless to players. They already did their time and levelled up their former class, why not have the levels transfer over from the former class? It's not giving anyone an unfair advantage.

[edited to remove quote]

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

Xendyn wrote: »

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

UrQuan wrote: »

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

ghostwise wrote: »

MMorpgs that let you switch classes are the worst. I much prefer the character you create have meaning and not just be a template to change your game at a moments notice. Why even bother with having more than 1 character slot if you can just switch classes anytime you want?

Race? Gender? Choices? Weapon? There are multiple reasons to start a new character besides class. I will never start a new character no matter what anyway, so class isn't a motivator. If my character got deleted tomorrow, I'd snap the game in half and rip someone off in EBay. There's literally no reason not to have this feature. If you want your character to have meaning, you don't have to use it. Stop trying to force these views on other people.

Wow, you talking about how you'd break the law and scam people sure makes me more likely to listen to your arguments. No, wait, it makes me immediately think that absolutely everything you've said has exactly no value.

[snip]

[snip]

[snip]

I'd say that given the context of your posts generally in this topic, it came across as very obviously serious and like others here I certainly took it as such.

The sort of change you're asking for simply isn't a feature in MMOs and most people would say "rightly so" and do say just that whenever it is raised by someone who has rolled a character, decided he doesn't like it, but won't re-roll or create an alt so expects the developers to take time out from everything else to input the necessary work on a change that most people don't want.

People have different reasons for opposing class changes, but I believe that most argue against it because they want decisions taken at character creation to mean something and for a game to have a certain structure, rather than dumbing down a game to the point where everything is interchangeable and decisions have no consequences.

"So what's the logical solution for someone who only wants one character, wants them to be a Vampire, and doesn't like their class? It's a class change."

That's only a logical solution if the game permits such a change. This one doesn't, nor does any other MMO that I know, so the only logical solution is in fact to delete your character, recreate it as a different class, and get another bite. If you find repeating the content off-putting then choose a different alliance which will give you substantially different content apart from the main story-line together with the fighters and mages guild quests.

[edited to remove quote]

It's been mentioned before, over and over again, but taking away classes we'd all just pick the best 5 or 10 and all be the same. All DPS would have the same skills, all healers would have the same skills and all tanks would have the same skills..

That would not be fun.

If we had the possibility to swap classes, everyone would just swap classes every time the meta changes. 90% of the players will be running around with the "class of the season".

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

Why wouldn't they? There's no sense in implementing something that's virtually useless to players. They already did their time and levelled up their former class, why not have the levels transfer over from the former class? It's not giving anyone an unfair advantage.

Now this is a little ridiculous. Like some people said before, why would you have a skill leveled up when you have never ever used it before? Furthermore, how would they determine which skills should be leveled up?

I have a great idea! Allow class changing, but you need to start at level 1 with 0 skill points and an empty inventory! :^)

Mitchblue wrote: »

strikeback1247 wrote: »

I have a great idea! Allow class changing, but you need to start at level 1 with 0 skill points and an empty inventory! :^)

And no weapons to level 10. Fist fighting..

Back in older smaller games where your name meant something, people really did reroll. It's hard to imagine that now, but once upon a time that was a fact of life.

Callous2208 wrote: »

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

I refuse to go through all that [snip] again. It's taken me two weeks just to get to level 40. Or at least it feels like it's been two weeks. The reason to have it is because players want it. There's no reason not to have it.

1.How did it take you to level 40 to realize you didn't like the templar class?
2.If the vamp/templar combo was immersion breaking for you, why did you seek out a bite and become vamp?
3.There are quite a few reasons not to have it.
4.You say players want it, I would venture to guess the majority don't, or think it's not worth ZOS's time to implement it.
5.Once you swapped, you would be a level 40 back to square one with class skills. It would be easier to re-roll and level the skills as you go again.

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Ha! Ridiculous for an mmo he says.Not many mmo's have this option. If the option was there you would come here whining about having to level the new skills. Also your last point is so incredibly moronic I can barely think of a response, but I'll try. My templar is not a vampire because...gasp...I didn't make him one. You chose to take the bite on your templar and now your mad because it doesn't mesh? Why not get cured? I do not believe for a second it took you to vet levels or wherever you're currently at to discover you didn't like the templar class. Yes this is an ES game, but it's also an mmo. You can't just have total build/skill freedom/class freedom all at once. There's a million other people in your game world now, you are no longer the Dovahkiin Rinnegan.

"You chose to take a bite on your Templar", no. I chose to take a bite on my character. My single, one and only character. I will never make a second one because that's annoying. Not having the option to change classes isn't encouraging me to reroll, it's just pissing me off and I'm less likely to play long term. I don't have "a main and alts". I have one character and I don't like the Templar/Vampire mix. I do like being a Vampire though. So what's the logical solution for someone who only wants one character, wants them to be a Vampire, and doesn't like their class? It's a class change. Seeing how no one has presented an actual reason as to why it's a bad idea, I still stand by the feature.

You took a bite on your one and only character who was a templar! That's on you. But..but..I wanted to be a vamp, just not a temp/vamp. The point you're avoiding here is that you don't like the templar class. Vampire is a skill line, not a class. You were unhappy with temp long before the vamp bite. So why did you not stop at say, level 10-20, which takes literally no time to get to, and say, "nope, need to redo this before I get too far, templar is not a class I can enjoy."

I don't like the Templar class BECAUSE my character is a Vampire. I was level 10 when I had them turned, naturally I didn't want to give up something that was so difficult for me to achieve and I was new to the game. So I just continued and ignored it for a while, but now it's starting to get on my nerves

Why are people assuming you'd be back to square one? It'd be just like when you reset your skill points. Once you change classes, the SP would go back to you and you'd reuse them as if you'd reset the skills.

[snip]

No. You got about 1/4 of it right. Just forget the reason I want to change classes, it's irrelevant. Goodness, what is wrong with you people? My personal reasoning for wanting to change classes doesn't matter. Also no, you'd keep the same levels. Why would they have you start over? If that were the case, then yeah making a new character would make more sense. But that isn't what's being proposed. The skill points would go back to you after changing classes and you'd use them accordingly.

Im talking class skills. Change classes and you would have zero levels in any of the three skill lines of the nrw class. If a dk changes to temp, he has a level 1 aedriatic spear line for instance. They would never artificially bump a skill line you've never used. Weapon and armor skills progress may remain.

Why wouldn't they? There's no sense in implementing something that's virtually useless to players. They already did their time and levelled up their former class, why not have the levels transfer over from the former class? It's not giving anyone an unfair advantage.

It's silly of you to expect this. Your temp has never used green dragon blood, why would he have that maxed on class change just because he levelled breath of life?

It's called "class change" for a reason. You guys need to stop thinking like you're in the world of ESO. This is an out of world experience. You the player are rewriting your character's history, you're not simply learning a new skill set.

[edited to remove quote]

BaconMagic wrote: »

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

BaconMagic wrote: »

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

BaconMagic wrote: »

Someone explain to me how a classless MMO would work?

The same way a classless non-MMO RPG works. You don't have them.

[snip]

Why in the world do you think set, static classes are necessary for an MMO? MMO is Massive Multiplayer Online, that's all that means. If a regular RPG can avoid classes, then why can't an MMORPG?

Ok. Say you have no 'classes'. Why would there be any diversity? Everyone would pick the biggest DPS skill, the best healing skill, the best shield skill, and the best evade skill and everyone would be the same cookie cutter build in a matter of days after launch. A game with PvP needs classes or needs to have severe penalties for some skills if you choose others, which effectively makes classes a reality. How else do you balance the game?

In your classless game world, how would you make PvP fun? How would you make PvE interesting enough to want to play with other people?

We could have all of the abilities we have right now, but not limited to class. There are currently no class abilities that are so much more powerful than the others that everyone would pick the same exact things to gain an advantage. There'd be popular moves, but it's like that even now. You guys act like balance is a foreign concept.

[edited to remove quote]

strikeback1247 wrote: »

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

We could have all of the abilities we have right now, but not limited to class. There are currently no class abilities that are so much more powerful than the others that everyone would pick the same exact things to gain an advantage. There'd be popular moves, but it's like that even now. You guys act like balance is a foreign concept.

*cough* cloak *cough*

EVERYONE will be running cloak in PvP.

I would also love to see a streaking, jeebus beam firing, shield stacking killing machine that turns invisible all the time! Oh joy, that sounds fun for everyone involved!

Alright, alright, well some of the abilities would have to be tweaked. Anyway, I'm not suggesting they do that now. It's too late for something drastic like that. I just want the ability to do something that doesn't affect any of you in any way and change my damn class. I don't understand what's so difficult to understand about that or why that's such an implausible request.

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

Mitchblue wrote: »

It's been mentioned before, over and over again, but taking away classes we'd all just pick the best 5 or 10 and all be the same. All DPS would have the same skills, all healers would have the same skills and all tanks would have the same skills..

That would not be fun.

If someone is playing the game just to be the best, they'll pick the best regardless if there's class or not. They'll gladly restart if they want the best abilities.

But not the exact same skills. Many people play each class.. Take that away and everyone plays the same. Exactly the same.

Edit: Just to clarify, right now if what you say is correct - we have the best NB stam build, best NB mana build, best DK stam build, best DK mana build etc. etc.. Take classes away and you'd just have best stam class and best mana class. Going from 8 fotm to 2 fotm.

miked83b14_ESO wrote: »

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

The ability to change classes. Seriously, I don't know why these ZOS guys keep avoiding this. Say what you want, but this is still technically an "Elder Scrolls" game. I wasn't expecting the classes to be so separated. I should've known better, but I didn't. I'd like to rectify that mistake. Of course you have the selfish players who are perfectly happy with their character who say you should've chose more carefully or make a new character. I'm one of those people who likes sticking with one character. I like my current character and I don't like the idea of starting her over or having two Vestiges. Not to mention how much this game has pissed me off over the past two weeks I've had it, what with the crashing, lagging, and spotty hit detection. I just don't like the idea of a Vampiric Templar. It goes completely against itself. It's so idiotic watching my Vampire character use these Aedric holy moves, "chosen one" or not. I want to change to Nightblade or Sorcerer as they're more fitting.

No MMO offers class change. Not one. However, most MMOs do offer paid services for apearance, race and faction changes. These services are sorely absent in ESO and should be implemented.

Losing the battle, the old switcheroo - now I'm on top. Faction (alliance) change should never be part of a game.

RinneganDovahkiin wrote: »

I refuse to go through all that [snip] again. It's taken me two weeks just to get to level 40. Or at least it feels like it's been two weeks. The reason to have it is because players want it. There's no reason not to have it.

Okay. According to your logic, there should be flying mounts that shoot lasers and let you snipe n gank newbies from miles away. Why? Because someone wants it.

I'm not aware of ANY mmo that lets you change your CLASS. Race, yes, but not class. Like World of Warcraft, I'm sure ESO will offer instant-50s or instant-VR16s "soon" in their cash shop.

But just level an alt.

I play slowly - I only have 2 VR14s and I've been playing since Day -5. I'm going for as many achievements as possible on them and just enjoying it.

You have 8 slots - that's room enough for two of each class.

Just get a FPS - ESO is a thinking man's game.

[edited to remove quote]