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Argonian Racial Passives: A Very Desperate Plea
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Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Based on people's suggestions, I have come up with a solution to our problem that I think is very fair and balanced with other racial passives.
Here goes:
Restoration Expertise (not a big deal here. It becomes irrelevant once you hit 50 anyway).
1. Change Amphibious to Swamplander (or something like that):
- Increase swimming speed by 50% and decrease detection radius in stealth by 1/2/3 meters.
2. Argonian Resistance (keep as it will be in the IC update):
-Increases Max Health by 2/4/6% and Poison and Disease Resistance
3. Change Quick to Mend to Hist Ancestry (or something like that, Blessing of the Hist, or whatever):
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9% and increase max magicka by 2/4/6%
What do you guys think?
What about their historic super regeneration. Even in this description an Orc Or Khajiit or Nord has better regen. Its not too bad overall though.
But they don't have health regen now and Robust is widely viewed as one of, if not the worst racial passives in the game due to how health regen works. Why swap out one bad passive for another?
Plus, that's why I kept the healing received bonus. I think that's better than Robust.Edited by Junkogen on August 29, 2015 12:53AM0 -
Fizzlewizzle✭✭✭✭
Who says it has to be Robust?dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Based on people's suggestions, I have come up with a solution to our problem that I think is very fair and balanced with other racial passives.
Here goes:
Restoration Expertise (not a big deal here. It becomes irrelevant once you hit 50 anyway).
1. Change Amphibious to Swamplander (or something like that):
- Increase swimming speed by 50% and decrease detection radius in stealth by 1/2/3 meters.
2. Argonian Resistance (keep as it will be in the IC update):
-Increases Max Health by 2/4/6% and Poison and Disease Resistance
3. Change Quick to Mend to Hist Ancestry (or something like that, Blessing of the Hist, or whatever):
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9% and increase max magicka by 2/4/6%
What do you guys think?
What about their historic super regeneration. Even in this description an Orc Or Khajiit or Nord has better regen. Its not too bad overall though.
But they don't have health regen now and Robust is widely viewed as one of, if not the worst racial passives in the game due to how health regen works. Why swap out one bad passive for another?
I gave a very good suggestion for a decent health regen passive, which i think would fit Argonians perfectly.
Disregarding something as "the worst" is easy when the majority of the players plays offensively, while the passive in question is defensive.
To get the most out of health regen (and i say this as an Argonian, meaning i can't get the most out of it) you have to give up basically all your offensive power. I doubt that even a quarter of those players that disregard it as useless have experimented seriously with it.
Even i, as someone who has done tests with it, had spend close to a YEAR preparing for the moment i could do a serious test run with a Health regen build.
Why, because it takes 7650 hours (318 days) to be able to craft Orgnum's Scales set (as well as completing a complete questline), which is the set with the best bonus for health regen.
(Also, a heavy armor set would be best, as it also has its own health regen bonus, in which i doubt most offensive players put their money and time to research it.)7650 hours can be reduced by 25%, and shared over 3 research options if you have level 42 in the crafting skill tree.
But you still need to find/ buy the traits, which is pretty hard at the launch of a game.
Health regen can be a very valid tool if you give up all your offense.
Currently, even then it is still not possible to sustain with just health regen (need a lot of active healing besides that).
With the passive i suggested a basic Argonian build would gain a minimal effect of it, but it would be noticeable.
Someone who would build around it would gain a decent bonus, although they have to get hurt (the lower your health the higher the bonus).Mending-The-Wounded, Aldmeri Dominion, Templar.0 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭Fizzlewizzle wrote: »
Who says it has to be Robust?dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Based on people's suggestions, I have come up with a solution to our problem that I think is very fair and balanced with other racial passives.
Here goes:
Restoration Expertise (not a big deal here. It becomes irrelevant once you hit 50 anyway).
1. Change Amphibious to Swamplander (or something like that):
- Increase swimming speed by 50% and decrease detection radius in stealth by 1/2/3 meters.
2. Argonian Resistance (keep as it will be in the IC update):
-Increases Max Health by 2/4/6% and Poison and Disease Resistance
3. Change Quick to Mend to Hist Ancestry (or something like that, Blessing of the Hist, or whatever):
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9% and increase max magicka by 2/4/6%
What do you guys think?
What about their historic super regeneration. Even in this description an Orc Or Khajiit or Nord has better regen. Its not too bad overall though.
But they don't have health regen now and Robust is widely viewed as one of, if not the worst racial passives in the game due to how health regen works. Why swap out one bad passive for another?
I gave a very good suggestion for a decent health regen passive, which i think would fit Argonians perfectly.
Disregarding something as "the worst" is easy when the majority of the players plays offensively, while the passive in question is defensive.
To get the most out of health regen (and i say this as an Argonian, meaning i can't get the most out of it) you have to give up basically all your offensive power. I doubt that even a quarter of those players that disregard it as useless have experimented seriously with it.
Even i, as someone who has done tests with it, had spend close to a YEAR preparing for the moment i could do a serious test run with a Health regen build.
Why, because it takes 7650 hours (318 days) to be able to craft Orgnum's Scales set (as well as completing a complete questline), which is the set with the best bonus for health regen.
(Also, a heavy armor set would be best, as it also has its own health regen bonus, in which i doubt most offensive players put their money and time to research it.)7650 hours can be reduced by 25%, and shared over 3 research options if you have level 42 in the crafting skill tree.
But you still need to find/ buy the traits, which is pretty hard at the launch of a game.
Health regen can be a very valid tool if you give up all your offense.
Currently, even then it is still not possible to sustain with just health regen (need a lot of active healing besides that).
With the passive i suggested a basic Argonian build would gain a minimal effect of it, but it would be noticeable.
Someone who would build around it would gain a decent bonus, although they have to get hurt (the lower your health the higher the bonus).
Why would you want to give up all your offense? I guess if you want to run full tank, but I personally don't think Argonians should be designed to be tanks. The Ebonheart Pact already has Nords. Dunmer have stamina and magicka. The combination of health and magicka hasn't been used yet by any other race. I actually don't mind the healing received as the means of addressing their history of health regen as long as something like max magicka is added as a bonus.0 -
lathbury✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think argonian passives are great and I wouldn't change my passives for the world.1 -
Van_0S✭✭✭✭✭Fizzlewizzle wrote: »Restoration Expertise (as it is).
Amphibious:
- Increase swimming speed by 25/50/75% and decrease detection radius by 1/2/3 meters.
Argonian Resistance (maybe other name):
-Increase Poison and Disease resistance by X, Increase (in combat) Magicka regen by 3/6/9%.
Quick to Mend:
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9%
- Increase in combat Health regen by 10/20/30% below 90% max health, 20/40/60% below 60% max health and 30/60/90% below 30% max health.
If zenimax apply the passive change for argonain that you have given,then they will become Godzilla.It breaks the lore of them becoming in to slaves.Edited by Van_0S on August 29, 2015 4:29AM0 -
Fizzlewizzle✭✭✭✭
Main reason why i said no one has actually tested it, the mindset of "why would you want to give up all your offense".Fizzlewizzle wrote: »
Who says it has to be Robust?dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Based on people's suggestions, I have come up with a solution to our problem that I think is very fair and balanced with other racial passives.
Here goes:
Restoration Expertise (not a big deal here. It becomes irrelevant once you hit 50 anyway).
1. Change Amphibious to Swamplander (or something like that):
- Increase swimming speed by 50% and decrease detection radius in stealth by 1/2/3 meters.
2. Argonian Resistance (keep as it will be in the IC update):
-Increases Max Health by 2/4/6% and Poison and Disease Resistance
3. Change Quick to Mend to Hist Ancestry (or something like that, Blessing of the Hist, or whatever):
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9% and increase max magicka by 2/4/6%
What do you guys think?
What about their historic super regeneration. Even in this description an Orc Or Khajiit or Nord has better regen. Its not too bad overall though.
But they don't have health regen now and Robust is widely viewed as one of, if not the worst racial passives in the game due to how health regen works. Why swap out one bad passive for another?
I gave a very good suggestion for a decent health regen passive, which i think would fit Argonians perfectly.
Disregarding something as "the worst" is easy when the majority of the players plays offensively, while the passive in question is defensive.
To get the most out of health regen (and i say this as an Argonian, meaning i can't get the most out of it) you have to give up basically all your offensive power. I doubt that even a quarter of those players that disregard it as useless have experimented seriously with it.
Even i, as someone who has done tests with it, had spend close to a YEAR preparing for the moment i could do a serious test run with a Health regen build.
Why, because it takes 7650 hours (318 days) to be able to craft Orgnum's Scales set (as well as completing a complete questline), which is the set with the best bonus for health regen.
(Also, a heavy armor set would be best, as it also has its own health regen bonus, in which i doubt most offensive players put their money and time to research it.)7650 hours can be reduced by 25%, and shared over 3 research options if you have level 42 in the crafting skill tree.
But you still need to find/ buy the traits, which is pretty hard at the launch of a game.
Health regen can be a very valid tool if you give up all your offense.
Currently, even then it is still not possible to sustain with just health regen (need a lot of active healing besides that).
With the passive i suggested a basic Argonian build would gain a minimal effect of it, but it would be noticeable.
Someone who would build around it would gain a decent bonus, although they have to get hurt (the lower your health the higher the bonus).
Why would you want to give up all your offense? I guess if you want to run full tank, but I personally don't think Argonians should be designed to be tanks. The Ebonheart Pact already has Nords. Dunmer have stamina and magicka. The combination of health and magicka hasn't been used yet by any other race. I actually don't mind the healing received as the means of addressing their history of health regen as long as something like max magicka is added as a bonus.
Attacking is still possible, but you won't have the offensive bonuses a DPS style character has.
(It does work good though with magicka, as you have a build in counter against Equilibrium.)
It still is a health and magicka bonus though.
I personally don't see how they would become god. They might have survivability, but it comes with restrictions.YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »Fizzlewizzle wrote: »Restoration Expertise (as it is).
Amphibious:
- Increase swimming speed by 25/50/75% and decrease detection radius by 1/2/3 meters.
Argonian Resistance (maybe other name):
-Increase Poison and Disease resistance by X, Increase (in combat) Magicka regen by 3/6/9%.
Quick to Mend:
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9%
- Increase in combat Health regen by 10/20/30% below 90% max health, 20/40/60% below 60% max health and 30/60/90% below 30% max health.
If zenimax apply the passive change for argonain that you have given,then they will become Godzilla.It breaks the lore of them becoming in to slaves.
As for the slave part... someone who can't can't fight back (no offensive bonuses) but can do a lot of work without collapsing (high endurance) would make for a perfect slave if you asked me.
Not really how i would want to view the Argonians, but for the people who look at them that way, here you go.
Mending-The-Wounded, Aldmeri Dominion, Templar.0 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »Fizzlewizzle wrote: »Restoration Expertise (as it is).
Amphibious:
- Increase swimming speed by 25/50/75% and decrease detection radius by 1/2/3 meters.
Argonian Resistance (maybe other name):
-Increase Poison and Disease resistance by X, Increase (in combat) Magicka regen by 3/6/9%.
Quick to Mend:
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9%
- Increase in combat Health regen by 10/20/30% below 90% max health, 20/40/60% below 60% max health and 30/60/90% below 30% max health.
If zenimax apply the passive change for argonain that you have given,then they will become Godzilla.It breaks the lore of them becoming in to slaves.
Wow, that's incredibly offensive. By that same logic, would you say that African slaves were somehow naturally inferior because they were once used as slaves? Slavery says more about the slavers than those enslaved.
Besides, if you look at the lore, the Argonians finally get fed up wih the Dunmer and invade and conquer lower Morrowind, wiping out House Dres. Also, it's not like the Dunmer ever conquered Black Marsh. In fact, no one ever really has. The Dunmer raid outer, weak villages or abduct defenseless Argonians like cowards.Edited by Junkogen on August 29, 2015 11:46AM2 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭Fizzlewizzle wrote: »
Main reason why i said no one has actually tested it, the mindset of "why would you want to give up all your offense".Fizzlewizzle wrote: »
Who says it has to be Robust?dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Based on people's suggestions, I have come up with a solution to our problem that I think is very fair and balanced with other racial passives.
Here goes:
Restoration Expertise (not a big deal here. It becomes irrelevant once you hit 50 anyway).
1. Change Amphibious to Swamplander (or something like that):
- Increase swimming speed by 50% and decrease detection radius in stealth by 1/2/3 meters.
2. Argonian Resistance (keep as it will be in the IC update):
-Increases Max Health by 2/4/6% and Poison and Disease Resistance
3. Change Quick to Mend to Hist Ancestry (or something like that, Blessing of the Hist, or whatever):
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9% and increase max magicka by 2/4/6%
What do you guys think?
What about their historic super regeneration. Even in this description an Orc Or Khajiit or Nord has better regen. Its not too bad overall though.
But they don't have health regen now and Robust is widely viewed as one of, if not the worst racial passives in the game due to how health regen works. Why swap out one bad passive for another?
I gave a very good suggestion for a decent health regen passive, which i think would fit Argonians perfectly.
Disregarding something as "the worst" is easy when the majority of the players plays offensively, while the passive in question is defensive.
To get the most out of health regen (and i say this as an Argonian, meaning i can't get the most out of it) you have to give up basically all your offensive power. I doubt that even a quarter of those players that disregard it as useless have experimented seriously with it.
Even i, as someone who has done tests with it, had spend close to a YEAR preparing for the moment i could do a serious test run with a Health regen build.
Why, because it takes 7650 hours (318 days) to be able to craft Orgnum's Scales set (as well as completing a complete questline), which is the set with the best bonus for health regen.
(Also, a heavy armor set would be best, as it also has its own health regen bonus, in which i doubt most offensive players put their money and time to research it.)7650 hours can be reduced by 25%, and shared over 3 research options if you have level 42 in the crafting skill tree.
But you still need to find/ buy the traits, which is pretty hard at the launch of a game.
Health regen can be a very valid tool if you give up all your offense.
Currently, even then it is still not possible to sustain with just health regen (need a lot of active healing besides that).
With the passive i suggested a basic Argonian build would gain a minimal effect of it, but it would be noticeable.
Someone who would build around it would gain a decent bonus, although they have to get hurt (the lower your health the higher the bonus).
Why would you want to give up all your offense? I guess if you want to run full tank, but I personally don't think Argonians should be designed to be tanks. The Ebonheart Pact already has Nords. Dunmer have stamina and magicka. The combination of health and magicka hasn't been used yet by any other race. I actually don't mind the healing received as the means of addressing their history of health regen as long as something like max magicka is added as a bonus.
Attacking is still possible, but you won't have the offensive bonuses a DPS style character has.
(It does work good though with magicka, as you have a build in counter against Equilibrium.)
It still is a health and magicka bonus though.
I personally don't see how they would become god. They might have survivability, but it comes with restrictions.YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »Fizzlewizzle wrote: »Restoration Expertise (as it is).
Amphibious:
- Increase swimming speed by 25/50/75% and decrease detection radius by 1/2/3 meters.
Argonian Resistance (maybe other name):
-Increase Poison and Disease resistance by X, Increase (in combat) Magicka regen by 3/6/9%.
Quick to Mend:
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9%
- Increase in combat Health regen by 10/20/30% below 90% max health, 20/40/60% below 60% max health and 30/60/90% below 30% max health.
If zenimax apply the passive change for argonain that you have given,then they will become Godzilla.It breaks the lore of them becoming in to slaves.
As for the slave part... someone who can't can't fight back (no offensive bonuses) but can do a lot of work without collapsing (high endurance) would make for a perfect slave if you asked me.
Not really how i would want to view the Argonians, but for the people who look at them that way, here you go.
Despite the game being an MMO, much of the game is spent solo. To have no offensive ability would be incredibly frustrating. Sure, you could survive a long time, but it would take forever to kill anything.
I take it you like Argonians as a tank race? I just think it's redundant. Look at Nords, don't they have 30% health regen, 9% max health, and damage reduction? No offense, but what you're proposing kind of already exists.0 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Fizzlewizzle wrote: »
Main reason why i said no one has actually tested it, the mindset of "why would you want to give up all your offense".Fizzlewizzle wrote: »
Who says it has to be Robust?dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Based on people's suggestions, I have come up with a solution to our problem that I think is very fair and balanced with other racial passives.
Here goes:
Restoration Expertise (not a big deal here. It becomes irrelevant once you hit 50 anyway).
1. Change Amphibious to Swamplander (or something like that):
- Increase swimming speed by 50% and decrease detection radius in stealth by 1/2/3 meters.
2. Argonian Resistance (keep as it will be in the IC update):
-Increases Max Health by 2/4/6% and Poison and Disease Resistance
3. Change Quick to Mend to Hist Ancestry (or something like that, Blessing of the Hist, or whatever):
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9% and increase max magicka by 2/4/6%
What do you guys think?
What about their historic super regeneration. Even in this description an Orc Or Khajiit or Nord has better regen. Its not too bad overall though.
But they don't have health regen now and Robust is widely viewed as one of, if not the worst racial passives in the game due to how health regen works. Why swap out one bad passive for another?
I gave a very good suggestion for a decent health regen passive, which i think would fit Argonians perfectly.
Disregarding something as "the worst" is easy when the majority of the players plays offensively, while the passive in question is defensive.
To get the most out of health regen (and i say this as an Argonian, meaning i can't get the most out of it) you have to give up basically all your offensive power. I doubt that even a quarter of those players that disregard it as useless have experimented seriously with it.
Even i, as someone who has done tests with it, had spend close to a YEAR preparing for the moment i could do a serious test run with a Health regen build.
Why, because it takes 7650 hours (318 days) to be able to craft Orgnum's Scales set (as well as completing a complete questline), which is the set with the best bonus for health regen.
(Also, a heavy armor set would be best, as it also has its own health regen bonus, in which i doubt most offensive players put their money and time to research it.)7650 hours can be reduced by 25%, and shared over 3 research options if you have level 42 in the crafting skill tree.
But you still need to find/ buy the traits, which is pretty hard at the launch of a game.
Health regen can be a very valid tool if you give up all your offense.
Currently, even then it is still not possible to sustain with just health regen (need a lot of active healing besides that).
With the passive i suggested a basic Argonian build would gain a minimal effect of it, but it would be noticeable.
Someone who would build around it would gain a decent bonus, although they have to get hurt (the lower your health the higher the bonus).
Why would you want to give up all your offense? I guess if you want to run full tank, but I personally don't think Argonians should be designed to be tanks. The Ebonheart Pact already has Nords. Dunmer have stamina and magicka. The combination of health and magicka hasn't been used yet by any other race. I actually don't mind the healing received as the means of addressing their history of health regen as long as something like max magicka is added as a bonus.
Attacking is still possible, but you won't have the offensive bonuses a DPS style character has.
(It does work good though with magicka, as you have a build in counter against Equilibrium.)
It still is a health and magicka bonus though.
I personally don't see how they would become god. They might have survivability, but it comes with restrictions.YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »Fizzlewizzle wrote: »Restoration Expertise (as it is).
Amphibious:
- Increase swimming speed by 25/50/75% and decrease detection radius by 1/2/3 meters.
Argonian Resistance (maybe other name):
-Increase Poison and Disease resistance by X, Increase (in combat) Magicka regen by 3/6/9%.
Quick to Mend:
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9%
- Increase in combat Health regen by 10/20/30% below 90% max health, 20/40/60% below 60% max health and 30/60/90% below 30% max health.
If zenimax apply the passive change for argonain that you have given,then they will become Godzilla.It breaks the lore of them becoming in to slaves.
As for the slave part... someone who can't can't fight back (no offensive bonuses) but can do a lot of work without collapsing (high endurance) would make for a perfect slave if you asked me.
Not really how i would want to view the Argonians, but for the people who look at them that way, here you go.
Despite the game being an MMO, much of the game is spent solo. To have no offensive ability would be incredibly frustrating. Sure, you could survive a long time, but it would take forever to kill anything.
I take it you like Argonians as a tank race? I just think it's redundant. Look at Nords, don't they have 30% health regen, 9% max health, and damage reduction? No offense, but what you're proposing kind of already exists.
Actually, the way they've been devised, Argonians are already a tank race or at least intended that way.
US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>0 -
Selique✭✭✭✭I'd like to get a /lurk from a dev on this. What are you Devs thinking about the direction of Argonian passives? As you can tell... Many of us Saxhleel are very passionate about our.... Passives.....Falls-With-Grace ~ Shadowscale (Argonian Night Blade)
Selique Lasra ~ Captain, Smuggler, Swashbuckler (Redguard Templar)
Chases-Comets ~ Shellback Warrior (Argonian Dragon Knight)
Slissix-Kir ~ Swamp Shaman (Argonian Sorcerer)
Hail Sithis..1 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Fizzlewizzle wrote: »
Main reason why i said no one has actually tested it, the mindset of "why would you want to give up all your offense".Fizzlewizzle wrote: »
Who says it has to be Robust?dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Based on people's suggestions, I have come up with a solution to our problem that I think is very fair and balanced with other racial passives.
Here goes:
Restoration Expertise (not a big deal here. It becomes irrelevant once you hit 50 anyway).
1. Change Amphibious to Swamplander (or something like that):
- Increase swimming speed by 50% and decrease detection radius in stealth by 1/2/3 meters.
2. Argonian Resistance (keep as it will be in the IC update):
-Increases Max Health by 2/4/6% and Poison and Disease Resistance
3. Change Quick to Mend to Hist Ancestry (or something like that, Blessing of the Hist, or whatever):
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9% and increase max magicka by 2/4/6%
What do you guys think?
What about their historic super regeneration. Even in this description an Orc Or Khajiit or Nord has better regen. Its not too bad overall though.
But they don't have health regen now and Robust is widely viewed as one of, if not the worst racial passives in the game due to how health regen works. Why swap out one bad passive for another?
I gave a very good suggestion for a decent health regen passive, which i think would fit Argonians perfectly.
Disregarding something as "the worst" is easy when the majority of the players plays offensively, while the passive in question is defensive.
To get the most out of health regen (and i say this as an Argonian, meaning i can't get the most out of it) you have to give up basically all your offensive power. I doubt that even a quarter of those players that disregard it as useless have experimented seriously with it.
Even i, as someone who has done tests with it, had spend close to a YEAR preparing for the moment i could do a serious test run with a Health regen build.
Why, because it takes 7650 hours (318 days) to be able to craft Orgnum's Scales set (as well as completing a complete questline), which is the set with the best bonus for health regen.
(Also, a heavy armor set would be best, as it also has its own health regen bonus, in which i doubt most offensive players put their money and time to research it.)7650 hours can be reduced by 25%, and shared over 3 research options if you have level 42 in the crafting skill tree.
But you still need to find/ buy the traits, which is pretty hard at the launch of a game.
Health regen can be a very valid tool if you give up all your offense.
Currently, even then it is still not possible to sustain with just health regen (need a lot of active healing besides that).
With the passive i suggested a basic Argonian build would gain a minimal effect of it, but it would be noticeable.
Someone who would build around it would gain a decent bonus, although they have to get hurt (the lower your health the higher the bonus).
Why would you want to give up all your offense? I guess if you want to run full tank, but I personally don't think Argonians should be designed to be tanks. The Ebonheart Pact already has Nords. Dunmer have stamina and magicka. The combination of health and magicka hasn't been used yet by any other race. I actually don't mind the healing received as the means of addressing their history of health regen as long as something like max magicka is added as a bonus.
Attacking is still possible, but you won't have the offensive bonuses a DPS style character has.
(It does work good though with magicka, as you have a build in counter against Equilibrium.)
It still is a health and magicka bonus though.
I personally don't see how they would become god. They might have survivability, but it comes with restrictions.YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »Fizzlewizzle wrote: »Restoration Expertise (as it is).
Amphibious:
- Increase swimming speed by 25/50/75% and decrease detection radius by 1/2/3 meters.
Argonian Resistance (maybe other name):
-Increase Poison and Disease resistance by X, Increase (in combat) Magicka regen by 3/6/9%.
Quick to Mend:
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9%
- Increase in combat Health regen by 10/20/30% below 90% max health, 20/40/60% below 60% max health and 30/60/90% below 30% max health.
If zenimax apply the passive change for argonain that you have given,then they will become Godzilla.It breaks the lore of them becoming in to slaves.
As for the slave part... someone who can't can't fight back (no offensive bonuses) but can do a lot of work without collapsing (high endurance) would make for a perfect slave if you asked me.
Not really how i would want to view the Argonians, but for the people who look at them that way, here you go.
Despite the game being an MMO, much of the game is spent solo. To have no offensive ability would be incredibly frustrating. Sure, you could survive a long time, but it would take forever to kill anything.
I take it you like Argonians as a tank race? I just think it's redundant. Look at Nords, don't they have 30% health regen, 9% max health, and damage reduction? No offense, but what you're proposing kind of already exists.
Actually, the way they've been devised, Argonians are already a tank race or at least intended that way.
I guess (I don't agree with it), but I think with the changes I suggested Argonians would retain their tankiness but be much more versatile and be able to tackle any playstyle decently. Maybe not the best, but they would have a niche and be a jack of all trades.Edited by Junkogen on August 29, 2015 4:05PM0 -
Fizzlewizzle✭✭✭✭
Not really a tank race. If i wanted it to be a tank i would go the "Argonians have leathery skin, so you would assume it gives them more protection against melee/ magic, and should thus get more defense/ reduction to incoming damage (basically what nords have now)" route.Fizzlewizzle wrote: »
Main reason why i said no one has actually tested it, the mindset of "why would you want to give up all your offense".Fizzlewizzle wrote: »
Who says it has to be Robust?dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Based on people's suggestions, I have come up with a solution to our problem that I think is very fair and balanced with other racial passives.
Here goes:
Restoration Expertise (not a big deal here. It becomes irrelevant once you hit 50 anyway).
1. Change Amphibious to Swamplander (or something like that):
- Increase swimming speed by 50% and decrease detection radius in stealth by 1/2/3 meters.
2. Argonian Resistance (keep as it will be in the IC update):
-Increases Max Health by 2/4/6% and Poison and Disease Resistance
3. Change Quick to Mend to Hist Ancestry (or something like that, Blessing of the Hist, or whatever):
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9% and increase max magicka by 2/4/6%
What do you guys think?
What about their historic super regeneration. Even in this description an Orc Or Khajiit or Nord has better regen. Its not too bad overall though.
But they don't have health regen now and Robust is widely viewed as one of, if not the worst racial passives in the game due to how health regen works. Why swap out one bad passive for another?
I gave a very good suggestion for a decent health regen passive, which i think would fit Argonians perfectly.
Disregarding something as "the worst" is easy when the majority of the players plays offensively, while the passive in question is defensive.
To get the most out of health regen (and i say this as an Argonian, meaning i can't get the most out of it) you have to give up basically all your offensive power. I doubt that even a quarter of those players that disregard it as useless have experimented seriously with it.
Even i, as someone who has done tests with it, had spend close to a YEAR preparing for the moment i could do a serious test run with a Health regen build.
Why, because it takes 7650 hours (318 days) to be able to craft Orgnum's Scales set (as well as completing a complete questline), which is the set with the best bonus for health regen.
(Also, a heavy armor set would be best, as it also has its own health regen bonus, in which i doubt most offensive players put their money and time to research it.)7650 hours can be reduced by 25%, and shared over 3 research options if you have level 42 in the crafting skill tree.
But you still need to find/ buy the traits, which is pretty hard at the launch of a game.
Health regen can be a very valid tool if you give up all your offense.
Currently, even then it is still not possible to sustain with just health regen (need a lot of active healing besides that).
With the passive i suggested a basic Argonian build would gain a minimal effect of it, but it would be noticeable.
Someone who would build around it would gain a decent bonus, although they have to get hurt (the lower your health the higher the bonus).
Why would you want to give up all your offense? I guess if you want to run full tank, but I personally don't think Argonians should be designed to be tanks. The Ebonheart Pact already has Nords. Dunmer have stamina and magicka. The combination of health and magicka hasn't been used yet by any other race. I actually don't mind the healing received as the means of addressing their history of health regen as long as something like max magicka is added as a bonus.
Attacking is still possible, but you won't have the offensive bonuses a DPS style character has.
(It does work good though with magicka, as you have a build in counter against Equilibrium.)
It still is a health and magicka bonus though.
I personally don't see how they would become god. They might have survivability, but it comes with restrictions.YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »Fizzlewizzle wrote: »Restoration Expertise (as it is).
Amphibious:
- Increase swimming speed by 25/50/75% and decrease detection radius by 1/2/3 meters.
Argonian Resistance (maybe other name):
-Increase Poison and Disease resistance by X, Increase (in combat) Magicka regen by 3/6/9%.
Quick to Mend:
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9%
- Increase in combat Health regen by 10/20/30% below 90% max health, 20/40/60% below 60% max health and 30/60/90% below 30% max health.
If zenimax apply the passive change for argonain that you have given,then they will become Godzilla.It breaks the lore of them becoming in to slaves.
As for the slave part... someone who can't can't fight back (no offensive bonuses) but can do a lot of work without collapsing (high endurance) would make for a perfect slave if you asked me.
Not really how i would want to view the Argonians, but for the people who look at them that way, here you go.
Despite the game being an MMO, much of the game is spent solo. To have no offensive ability would be incredibly frustrating. Sure, you could survive a long time, but it would take forever to kill anything.
I take it you like Argonians as a tank race? I just think it's redundant. Look at Nords, don't they have 30% health regen, 9% max health, and damage reduction? No offense, but what you're proposing kind of already exists.
The idea i had in mind is more akin to a Stamina Bosmer (NB), but then the health variant of it.
A Bosmer NB can get around 6K Stamina regen (or, those are the numbers i've seen floating around here on the forums).
6K Stamina (or magicka) regen could be considered overkill, as most skills don't even cost half of that.
From a Health perspective 6K every 2 seconds isn't that much. Certain builds can get 15-20K damage per second (even in PvP), which would make 3K per second (6 every 2 seconds) nothing short of a joke.
Getting 6K Health regen is atm impossible. Might have been possible pre-1.6 with the old Restoring Aura and other health regen buff stacking, but currently it isn't possible.
A good health regen bonus would make it that the user of said health regen bonus would need less healing as they gain a decent amount of health on their own.
Giving Argonians (or races in general) just an insane health regen bonus, would be imbalanced, as it could result in said races being able to out-regen incoming damage.
(Would require an insanely high regen bonus, as the base Health regeneration of each race is around 600 at VR14.)
The Stages Health regen bonus i suggested works differently.
Because it is comes in stages you won't regain high amounts of health the second you lose some hp, but once you get into the danger zone (Execute range) it will work its hardest trying to get you out of it (by giving the biggest health regen bonus).
Although you are right that a tank would GET the most out of it, since they can focus more on health regen, a normal fighter/healer will GAIN the most out of it, simply because less is needed to let them reach certain thresholds.
(Part of me says that the health regen in my suggestion should be a bit higher, simply because the base health regen is so low. But, because i didn't want to put the focus on only health regen, i kept it low and also added magicka regen.)
With the most ridiculous build (High health regen and low max health) you could even create the situation where each hit would pull you down below the 90% or 60% health mark (maybe even below the 30% mark on a sneak attack), while your health regen brings you back to up to full.But then again, with the best rates i have managed to get, that would only be possible if you had no more than 9K health as a VR13 (Not VR14 yet)... even in Cyrodiil.
And we all know what 9K health will do with you in Cyrodiil.
Best number i have managed to pull is 4.3K by going below 60% health while using Orgnum's Scales
Mending-The-Wounded, Aldmeri Dominion, Templar.0 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭houimetub17_ESO wrote: »Replace + hp by + stam!
Why replace? Why not add? The Argonian passives are so underpowered compared to other races. The thing is, people just don't get how much better other races have it. It's kind of ridiculous.0 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'm hopeful I'll like the new argonian changes, but I agree. I do want to reiterate that I think Khajiit deserve a bump as well, in a major way. I look at their attributes and can't help but think 'huh, what were they thinking'. Khajiit just don't look like what I would have imagined them to be. As I've said before, the races with tails have it the hardest. I'm a big argonian fan as well so I'd love to see them brought in line with others, from a fairness perspective.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>1 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭Fizzlewizzle wrote: »
Not really a tank race. If i wanted it to be a tank i would go the "Argonians have leathery skin, so you would assume it gives them more protection against melee/ magic, and should thus get more defense/ reduction to incoming damage (basically what nords have now)" route.Fizzlewizzle wrote: »
Main reason why i said no one has actually tested it, the mindset of "why would you want to give up all your offense".Fizzlewizzle wrote: »
Who says it has to be Robust?dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Based on people's suggestions, I have come up with a solution to our problem that I think is very fair and balanced with other racial passives.
Here goes:
Restoration Expertise (not a big deal here. It becomes irrelevant once you hit 50 anyway).
1. Change Amphibious to Swamplander (or something like that):
- Increase swimming speed by 50% and decrease detection radius in stealth by 1/2/3 meters.
2. Argonian Resistance (keep as it will be in the IC update):
-Increases Max Health by 2/4/6% and Poison and Disease Resistance
3. Change Quick to Mend to Hist Ancestry (or something like that, Blessing of the Hist, or whatever):
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9% and increase max magicka by 2/4/6%
What do you guys think?
What about their historic super regeneration. Even in this description an Orc Or Khajiit or Nord has better regen. Its not too bad overall though.
But they don't have health regen now and Robust is widely viewed as one of, if not the worst racial passives in the game due to how health regen works. Why swap out one bad passive for another?
I gave a very good suggestion for a decent health regen passive, which i think would fit Argonians perfectly.
Disregarding something as "the worst" is easy when the majority of the players plays offensively, while the passive in question is defensive.
To get the most out of health regen (and i say this as an Argonian, meaning i can't get the most out of it) you have to give up basically all your offensive power. I doubt that even a quarter of those players that disregard it as useless have experimented seriously with it.
Even i, as someone who has done tests with it, had spend close to a YEAR preparing for the moment i could do a serious test run with a Health regen build.
Why, because it takes 7650 hours (318 days) to be able to craft Orgnum's Scales set (as well as completing a complete questline), which is the set with the best bonus for health regen.
(Also, a heavy armor set would be best, as it also has its own health regen bonus, in which i doubt most offensive players put their money and time to research it.)7650 hours can be reduced by 25%, and shared over 3 research options if you have level 42 in the crafting skill tree.
But you still need to find/ buy the traits, which is pretty hard at the launch of a game.
Health regen can be a very valid tool if you give up all your offense.
Currently, even then it is still not possible to sustain with just health regen (need a lot of active healing besides that).
With the passive i suggested a basic Argonian build would gain a minimal effect of it, but it would be noticeable.
Someone who would build around it would gain a decent bonus, although they have to get hurt (the lower your health the higher the bonus).
Why would you want to give up all your offense? I guess if you want to run full tank, but I personally don't think Argonians should be designed to be tanks. The Ebonheart Pact already has Nords. Dunmer have stamina and magicka. The combination of health and magicka hasn't been used yet by any other race. I actually don't mind the healing received as the means of addressing their history of health regen as long as something like max magicka is added as a bonus.
Attacking is still possible, but you won't have the offensive bonuses a DPS style character has.
(It does work good though with magicka, as you have a build in counter against Equilibrium.)
It still is a health and magicka bonus though.
I personally don't see how they would become god. They might have survivability, but it comes with restrictions.YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »Fizzlewizzle wrote: »Restoration Expertise (as it is).
Amphibious:
- Increase swimming speed by 25/50/75% and decrease detection radius by 1/2/3 meters.
Argonian Resistance (maybe other name):
-Increase Poison and Disease resistance by X, Increase (in combat) Magicka regen by 3/6/9%.
Quick to Mend:
- Increase healing Received by 3/6/9%
- Increase in combat Health regen by 10/20/30% below 90% max health, 20/40/60% below 60% max health and 30/60/90% below 30% max health.
If zenimax apply the passive change for argonain that you have given,then they will become Godzilla.It breaks the lore of them becoming in to slaves.
As for the slave part... someone who can't can't fight back (no offensive bonuses) but can do a lot of work without collapsing (high endurance) would make for a perfect slave if you asked me.
Not really how i would want to view the Argonians, but for the people who look at them that way, here you go.
Despite the game being an MMO, much of the game is spent solo. To have no offensive ability would be incredibly frustrating. Sure, you could survive a long time, but it would take forever to kill anything.
I take it you like Argonians as a tank race? I just think it's redundant. Look at Nords, don't they have 30% health regen, 9% max health, and damage reduction? No offense, but what you're proposing kind of already exists.
The idea i had in mind is more akin to a Stamina Bosmer (NB), but then the health variant of it.
A Bosmer NB can get around 6K Stamina regen (or, those are the numbers i've seen floating around here on the forums).
6K Stamina (or magicka) regen could be considered overkill, as most skills don't even cost half of that.
From a Health perspective 6K every 2 seconds isn't that much. Certain builds can get 15-20K damage per second (even in PvP), which would make 3K per second (6 every 2 seconds) nothing short of a joke.
Getting 6K Health regen is atm impossible. Might have been possible pre-1.6 with the old Restoring Aura and other health regen buff stacking, but currently it isn't possible.
A good health regen bonus would make it that the user of said health regen bonus would need less healing as they gain a decent amount of health on their own.
Giving Argonians (or races in general) just an insane health regen bonus, would be imbalanced, as it could result in said races being able to out-regen incoming damage.
(Would require an insanely high regen bonus, as the base Health regeneration of each race is around 600 at VR14.)
The Stages Health regen bonus i suggested works differently.
Because it is comes in stages you won't regain high amounts of health the second you lose some hp, but once you get into the danger zone (Execute range) it will work its hardest trying to get you out of it (by giving the biggest health regen bonus).
Although you are right that a tank would GET the most out of it, since they can focus more on health regen, a normal fighter/healer will GAIN the most out of it, simply because less is needed to let them reach certain thresholds.
(Part of me says that the health regen in my suggestion should be a bit higher, simply because the base health regen is so low. But, because i didn't want to put the focus on only health regen, i kept it low and also added magicka regen.)
With the most ridiculous build (High health regen and low max health) you could even create the situation where each hit would pull you down below the 90% or 60% health mark (maybe even below the 30% mark on a sneak attack), while your health regen brings you back to up to full.But then again, with the best rates i have managed to get, that would only be possible if you had no more than 9K health as a VR13 (Not VR14 yet)... even in Cyrodiil.
And we all know what 9K health will do with you in Cyrodiil.
Best number i have managed to pull is 4.3K by going below 60% health while using Orgnum's Scales
As you said, the base health regen is low. Therefore, I would be very cautious to ask for health regen as a replacement passive. While you might like to have what you outlined, the developers might only give us a portion of that such as something like Robust. With all the other stuff they have going on, I'm not sure they would be willing to take the proper time to develop a new decent health regen passive, whereas adding a 6% max magicka, or even stamina, bonus is simple and requires basically nothing in the way of testing. It seems more reasonable to ask for something like a max stat bonus than an entirely new passive.0 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »I'm hopeful I'll like the new argonian changes, but I agree. I do want to reiterate that I think Khajiit deserve a bump as well, in a major way. I look at their attributes and can't help but think 'huh, what were they thinking'. Khajiit just don't look like what I would have imagined them to be. As I've said before, the races with tails have it the hardest. I'm a big argonian fan as well so I'd love to see them brought in line with others, from a fairness perspective.
Yes, the Khajiit are underpowered, as well. I sure hope this isn't the end of their passive changes. I'm hopeful that they hold true to what they said about this just being an initial "tweaking" of the passives before a major rebalancing to accompany a race change option.
The reason there's such an imbalance is that they removed soft caps and didn't fully consider the consequences. Now, we're suffering from that seemingly rash decision.0 -
Resipsa131✭✭✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »The Dunmer never 'kept the lizard folk in line'. All they did is capture people on the outskirts of Black Marsh. Lets see how proud and important the Dunmer are in the heart of the swamps.
The dunmer would just drain the swamp0 -
asuitandtyb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I posted about this in a similar thread, I hope a dev sees this....
Good ideas, here are my thoughts. Overall in the TES games, if we choose to start from Morrowind, and look at Oblivion and Skyrim we see consistently reflecting the history and lore of the race.
Morrowind:
-bonus to alchemy (the crafting part, not the drinking part)
-spears
-athletics
-illusion magic
-medium armour
-mysticism
-unarmoured
-resist poison
-resist disease
-active water breathing ability
Synopsis: Argonians are meant to be fast (athletics, medium armour), guerilla fighters (spears) that use illusions or mysticism (perhaps a reptile implied camouflage), or terrain to hit and run. They have tough, protective hide (unarmoured) and have an inherit knowledge of fauna (alchemy). Being amphibians they can breathe underwater, and have a natural tolerance to diseases and poisons they may carry.
Oblivion:
-bonus to alchemy (the crafting part, not the drinking part)
-athletics
-illusion magic
-*added* blade (replacing non appearing spears)
-*added* hand to hand
-mysticism
-*added* security
-resist poison
-resist disease
-passive water breathing ability
Synposis (adding onto the above): Argonians are meant to be fast (athletics, medium armour), guerilla fighters (spears, blades) that use illusions or mysticism (perhaps a reptile implied camouflage), or terrain to hit and run. They have tough, protective hide (unarmoured) and have an inherit knowledge of fauna (alchemy). Being amphibians they can breathe underwater, and have a natural tolerance to diseases and poisons they may carry. They have dangerous natural claws (unarmed), have some skill at sneaky crafts (security. illusion).
In Oblivion they started hinting at some stealth skills, and a natural proficiency in close quarter combat.
Skyrim:
-bonus to alchemy (the crafting part, not the drinking part)
-alteration (the new improved mysticism and illusion)
-*added* light armour (medium was added to light armour)
-pickpocket
-sneak
-restoration
-higher unarmed damage
-passive water breathing
-resist poison
-resist disease
-active ability called histskin to self heal.
Synposis (adding onto the above): Argonians are meant to be fast (athletics, medium armourlight armour), guerilla fighters (spears, blades) that use illusions or mysticism alteration (perhaps a reptile implied camouflage), or terrain to hit and run. They have tough, protective hide (unarmoured) They have an inherit knowledge of fauna (alchemy). Being amphibians they can breathe underwater, and have a natural tolerance to diseases and poisons they may carry. They have dangerous natural claws (unarmed bonus). have some skill at sneaky crafts (security. illusion) Argonians are quite sneaky, good at picking locks for profit or assassination, and at picking pockets for profit making them ideal thieves or assassins.
In Skyrim another overall theme was added through the restoration magic and active healing ability that Argonians are natural healers, both through regeneration and overall innate knowledge. The themes of restoration and sneaking skills are very new to the existing theme of the Argonian racials.
So there is quite an evolution to the race, both in intentional design direction of the race and in game design and changes, such as spears, medium armour and mysticism being removed.
There are a few very consistent traits we can draw from however. Argonians are fast, strong at healing themselves or others, are great at creating potions, sneaky in all ways, great with blades and close combat, can breathe underwater and are all but immune to diseases and poisons, and an implied ability to blend in with their surroundings.
Now ever race can only have three defining racials, but some have a few qualities whilst others are quite singular. With all these facts in mind here are some TES game based suggestions.
-Amphibious: Increase your swim speed by 50%, and your poison and disease resistance by X amounts.
The thought behind this one was to have an overall definition of what makes Argonians...Argonians.
-Stealthy (same as Bosmer, Kajhiit): Reduces your detection radius by X meters. Increase damage done in stealth by X%.
The thought behind this is to add the defining characteristic from other TES games that Argonians are indeed a stealthy race of assassins and thieves. Also it would be nice for the Ebonheart Pact to have a stealth based class.
-Quick to Mend: Increase the effectiveness of healing on you by X%, and increased health regeneration while in combat by X%.
The thought behind this is to display the Argonians ability to heal themselves, both through active healing as well as their natural regeneration.
An alternative to that racial would be a completely new one, something like:
Reptilian Endurance: Increased stamina regeneration in combat by x%, and increased health regeneration while in combat by X%.
The though behind this is to really combine the long standing trait of athleticism, with the recently added trait of self healing or regeneration.
I truly hope a dev takes notice of this.0 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭asuitandtyb14_ESO wrote: »I posted about this in a similar thread, I hope a dev sees this....
Good ideas, here are my thoughts. Overall in the TES games, if we choose to start from Morrowind, and look at Oblivion and Skyrim we see consistently reflecting the history and lore of the race.
Morrowind:
-bonus to alchemy (the crafting part, not the drinking part)
-spears
-athletics
-illusion magic
-medium armour
-mysticism
-unarmoured
-resist poison
-resist disease
-active water breathing ability
Synopsis: Argonians are meant to be fast (athletics, medium armour), guerilla fighters (spears) that use illusions or mysticism (perhaps a reptile implied camouflage), or terrain to hit and run. They have tough, protective hide (unarmoured) and have an inherit knowledge of fauna (alchemy). Being amphibians they can breathe underwater, and have a natural tolerance to diseases and poisons they may carry.
Oblivion:
-bonus to alchemy (the crafting part, not the drinking part)
-athletics
-illusion magic
-*added* blade (replacing non appearing spears)
-*added* hand to hand
-mysticism
-*added* security
-resist poison
-resist disease
-passive water breathing ability
Synposis (adding onto the above): Argonians are meant to be fast (athletics, medium armour), guerilla fighters (spears, blades) that use illusions or mysticism (perhaps a reptile implied camouflage), or terrain to hit and run. They have tough, protective hide (unarmoured) and have an inherit knowledge of fauna (alchemy). Being amphibians they can breathe underwater, and have a natural tolerance to diseases and poisons they may carry. They have dangerous natural claws (unarmed), have some skill at sneaky crafts (security. illusion).
In Oblivion they started hinting at some stealth skills, and a natural proficiency in close quarter combat.
Skyrim:
-bonus to alchemy (the crafting part, not the drinking part)
-alteration (the new improved mysticism and illusion)
-*added* light armour (medium was added to light armour)
-pickpocket
-sneak
-restoration
-higher unarmed damage
-passive water breathing
-resist poison
-resist disease
-active ability called histskin to self heal.
Synposis (adding onto the above): Argonians are meant to be fast (athletics, medium armourlight armour), guerilla fighters (spears, blades) that use illusions or mysticism alteration (perhaps a reptile implied camouflage), or terrain to hit and run. They have tough, protective hide (unarmoured) They have an inherit knowledge of fauna (alchemy). Being amphibians they can breathe underwater, and have a natural tolerance to diseases and poisons they may carry. They have dangerous natural claws (unarmed bonus). have some skill at sneaky crafts (security. illusion) Argonians are quite sneaky, good at picking locks for profit or assassination, and at picking pockets for profit making them ideal thieves or assassins.
In Skyrim another overall theme was added through the restoration magic and active healing ability that Argonians are natural healers, both through regeneration and overall innate knowledge. The themes of restoration and sneaking skills are very new to the existing theme of the Argonian racials.
So there is quite an evolution to the race, both in intentional design direction of the race and in game design and changes, such as spears, medium armour and mysticism being removed.
There are a few very consistent traits we can draw from however. Argonians are fast, strong at healing themselves or others, are great at creating potions, sneaky in all ways, great with blades and close combat, can breathe underwater and are all but immune to diseases and poisons, and an implied ability to blend in with their surroundings.
Now ever race can only have three defining racials, but some have a few qualities whilst others are quite singular. With all these facts in mind here are some TES game based suggestions.
-Amphibious: Increase your swim speed by 50%, and your poison and disease resistance by X amounts.
The thought behind this one was to have an overall definition of what makes Argonians...Argonians.
-Stealthy (same as Bosmer, Kajhiit): Reduces your detection radius by X meters. Increase damage done in stealth by X%.
The thought behind this is to add the defining characteristic from other TES games that Argonians are indeed a stealthy race of assassins and thieves. Also it would be nice for the Ebonheart Pact to have a stealth based class.
-Quick to Mend: Increase the effectiveness of healing on you by X%, and increased health regeneration while in combat by X%.
The thought behind this is to display the Argonians ability to heal themselves, both through active healing as well as their natural regeneration.
An alternative to that racial would be a completely new one, something like:
Reptilian Endurance: Increased stamina regeneration in combat by x%, and increased health regeneration while in combat by X%.
The though behind this is to really combine the long standing trait of athleticism, with the recently added trait of self healing or regeneration.
I truly hope a dev takes notice of this.
While i appreciate where you are coming from, I don't think your suggestions are the best mainly because the game has no soft caps. In such an environment, max stats are necessary to stay competitive. Look at the races that are popular. They all have one thing in common--they all have the most increase to the preferred stat for that build. Imperials get 22% increase overall. Altmer and Breton get 10% boost to magicka, Dunmer gets 9% plus 6% stamina. If we're looking to have our race balanced and competitive with other races, we need to have max stat increases. This is why I proposed adding 6% max magicka (6% max stamina would be great, too, but Orcs already have a 6/6 max health and stamina).0 -
Fizzlewizzle✭✭✭✭Another alternative:
Go more towards the thieve route with Argonians.
- Restoration staff (basic one).
- Swim speed (also a basic one).
- Poison and Disease resistance (Seems basic for an Argonian)
- Healing received (only combat related buff. Having nothing in combat would be a bit too much, so at least survival.)
Could possibly stack those 3 bonuses (Ress staff is a standalone thing) on the same buff, as swim speed is mostly a gimmick, although a fun one.
As for new thieve like passives.
- Decreased Detection radius (always handy on a thief). Maybe double the power of the one Khajiit and Bosmer get (without the damage bonus)
- Increase pickpocket chance.
- Better prices (also works for stolen items). Does not work for Guild/ Player trades (seems logic)
- A special buff to enemies you attack, which increases the quantity and quality of their drops on death.
- More carrying capacity.
Basically a money machine. Something that would be nice to have with you on dungeon runs to gain better loot.
Sort of like what the Imperial was in Skyrim. Might have been useless there, but in an online game it might have more uses.Mending-The-Wounded, Aldmeri Dominion, Templar.0 -
13igTyme✭✭✭Fizzlewizzle wrote: »Another alternative:
Go more towards the thieve route with Argonians.
- Restoration staff (basic one).
- Swim speed (also a basic one).
- Poison and Disease resistance (Seems basic for an Argonian)
- Healing received (only combat related buff. Having nothing in combat would be a bit too much, so at least survival.)
Could possibly stack those 3 bonuses (Ress staff is a standalone thing) on the same buff, as swim speed is mostly a gimmick, although a fun one.
As for new thieve like passives.
- Decreased Detection radius (always handy on a thief). Maybe double the power of the one Khajiit and Bosmer get (without the damage bonus)
- Increase pickpocket chance.
- Better prices (also works for stolen items). Does not work for Guild/ Player trades (seems logic)
- A special buff to enemies you attack, which increases the quantity and quality of their drops on death.
- More carrying capacity.
Basically a money machine. Something that would be nice to have with you on dungeon runs to gain better loot.
Sort of like what the Imperial was in Skyrim. Might have been useless there, but in an online game it might have more uses.
It will be useless here as well.PS4 | NA | l3igTyme
Thinking about coming back to play...1 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They should just retire Argonians and replace them with a more intoxicated Nord in crocodile leather underwear.
Vacationord. The more tanned, lumbersexual, spring break version of the classic TES staple. Combines the drinking power of an Argonian with rugged survivability and an unusual urge to go on fishing trips.signing off1 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭They should just retire Argonians and replace them with a more intoxicated Nord in crocodile leather underwear.
Vacationord. The more tanned, lumbersexual, spring break version of the classic TES staple. Combines the drinking power of an Argonian with rugged survivability and an unusual urge to go on fishing trips.
Well, they might as well retire Argonians after they implement a race change option if they don't balance the passives. Look what they did for Orcs, a straight 4% damage increase on top of their 6% boost to max stamina and health. They just gave us a couple percentage points to marginally useful abilities and then gave us 6% to health. Sure, at least it's something, but that's about it; it's something, but not great.0 -
Junkogen✭✭✭✭✭
The healing received is a good bonus and useful for any build. The way you try to downplay the potion passive by saying "linked to a consumable" is a bit jaded as that's a great passive - the fact you get a mini-tri pot effect even for drinking a trash potion is good. The swim bonus, even though tied to something else, I love as a passive for them. And the resistance is decent (as good or bad as any other races resistance and I do like having a little more poison and disease resist in pvp).
Most of the ideas I see tossed around would make things either too specific to certain builds or make the race out of balance. Considering another player jumps to the conclusion I'm biased b/c I don't have an argonian (when I do - reading is hard) it seems much more like the bias is coming from the side of people overly focused on just what they want their argonians to have and not game balance.
As it stands, with the latest buffs, they are balanced well with other races. There is probably only one race left that still needs a tiny bit of love (I won't get into that here) and other than that I think they need to make the resistances a bit more worthwhile on every race that has them.
A mini tri-pot is not a great passive. How is that as good as a max stat bonus or regen that runs constantly? Potions are on a 45 second cooldown timer. With the alchemy passives, a tri-pot is good enough. I order to make the most out of the passive you wind up having to use all your jewelry spots to reduce the cool down. No other race has to do that.
Healing received is alright, but not balanced with other passives. In a game without soft caps, you need max stats. Argonian passives don't provide enough bonuses to offset what you lose by not taking another race. Argonians need at least a 6% boost to max magicka or stamina to be balanced, in my opinion.Edited by Junkogen on August 30, 2015 8:44PM1 -
Fizzlewizzle✭✭✭✭
I personally like the swimming speed.YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »Remove swim speed and replace it with running or combat speed by 5%-20%.
Maybe make it increase all forms of movement speed, rather than just swimming speed.
Might not be able to hit hard, but at least hit and run tactics become optional.Mending-The-Wounded, Aldmeri Dominion, Templar.1
