Lots of people don't want to grind Goblins until their eyes bleed just to stay competitive.

Very many people seem to believe in this mythical unicorn, the no-life CP grinder with 700+ CP that manages to spend 10+ hours a day playing the game, yet still be bad at it!

Why doesn't Zenimax put the amount of CPs gained in the UI so it is visible on enemy players? Then let us decide if it is something we want to keep putting up with if the people that show up in recaps are consistently 500+ CP?

iord_stryker wrote: »

Ok so I've been playing since console launch just got my second champion point.as a pve player I think the champion system is awesome. It gives a means of progression while bringing out vet Lvls.yet I see numerous posts of people complaining about it. So what's the problem?nhow does it ruin the game as I've heard it said?

There is actually no issue, people are confusing good sets, great builds, and skilled play with .000152 increase in power.
Also a lot of people get killed in pvp and instantly assume the only possible way they could've been beat is because the zerg that killed them had a billion CP's

New players wouldn't buy any pvp dlc if they kept loosing.

k2blader wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

What's the beef with CP?

Well, it does create a bit of a power gap for time played. Outside of that, it's mostly people that aren't very good using it as an excuse to blame their performance and accusing people better than them of having thousands of CP. Sorry to say, but it's true.

That is the typical argument. But here's a question for you:

Does your having higher CPs than someone else give you an advantage over them?

Of course (assuming the person knows what to do with the points). Just not as much as people think unless we are talking a huge gap like 500 vs 20 cp. Even then skill and build can make up for a lot.

For example, someone with a hundred points that knows how to build and play very well can easily handle someone with 500 that is relying just on points to make them strong and doesn't know what they are doing.

Most of the time, players complaining or whispering others about CP aren't in as huge a gap as they think which taints the whole argument. - that's my issue with this thread... 1. people don't have as many CP as some think. I see crazy accusations all the time. 2. The same players are losing the same fights. and finally 3. it's the same as anything else that you level - being alliance war 10 can make a bigger difference in your power level than having a hundred or 200 extra CP over someone (depending on situation of fight). Leveling up your undaunted or Playing enough variety to gather the gear you need, etc. Any and all of those are dangerous in the hands of a player that knows how to build and play.

This I can tell you, all through the game, from launch up to now I (and most of the guys I play with) get about the same results in pvp as we always have (couple of our dps guys have very low cp and are top performers).

That being said, I'd be all for setting up campaigns that have no CP or even a second one with under 300 CP or whatever. I would also personally have rolled out CP completely differently than ZoS did and think they did a pretty bad job of a good idea.

I keep seeing players who I know are amazing players claim that CP doesn't make that much of a difference. What would the leaderboards look like if they put CP'S next to the players names? Are we to expect that someone with less the 100 CP is above players with over 400? I very much doubt that. 1.5 was IMO the closest to balanced this game has seen and even then there was still issues.

SkinnyDG wrote: »

Let me start! Players that have more free time to spend in the game become stronger than others that don't have as much free time. The players that don't have that kind of free time still want to be as strong as the players that do have free time.

You forgot about new players.....

thunderwell wrote: »

My response will be imo, and from what I can gather (I'm not lvl 50 or VR 1 yet).

CP gives players a big 25% boost in damage and another in less damage taken (they're basically doing 125% damage and taking 75%). (Unless I'm wrong?)

You are.

Okay, first off, the +25% boosts require you to put 100 points in a star. Which is one of the least effective ways you can spend your points. It can sound to the outsider like that's something everyone has... but, no, if you've gotten to 300cp that's one of the weaker distributions.

Also, remember, the CP actually rotate through the three constellation sets. So if you just want to raise your physical damage to max the maximum, it's still going to take 300 points before you can put a 100th point in that star.

The second error is assuming that damage mitigation is linear... it's not. I haven't spent enough time to have it all internalized, but my recollection is that you get to about 30 or 40% mitigation fairly quickly, and then limp up to the hardcap at around 32k, which gives you 50% mitigation (I really should install the addon that shows me the mitigation values).

So, if you've got one of the armor stars (those only go to +13% btw), you can increase your armor value by 13% (again, that's the 100 point variant, so you don't get anything else, just wearing that one kind of armor really well) that isn't going to actually increase your damage mitigation by 13%. It will be a much smaller amount. And if your damage resist stat is already over 32k, (which is fairly easy for heavy armor characters at Vet) those stars will only make you slightly more resistant to armor penetration. It won't actually raise your mitigation.

If your character has low armor (<10k), those +13% armor stars may actually yield better than 13% damage mitigation. If you're high armor (>25k) those stars will probably only give you about 5% or 6% mitigation. (Now, again, don't take these numbers as 100% accurate. Raw mitigation isn't something I track so my numbers might be a little off.)

EDIT: I went in and checked the calculations given, it's not linear, but it is close to it. Either way, you're boosting your actual armor value, not flat damage mitigation. So characters with higher resistances will benefit more from the armor boosting stars. But, it still isn't flat mitigation. If you're talking about new characters at low levels, those stars are far less valuable than on a vet. And, with a vet character, you can already hit the hardcaps without spending CP... meaning it's entirely possible to pour points into stars that don't actually do anything for you. Your armor will continue to go above 32.5k, but you won't get any mitigation from it.

Now, for PvE, you are dealing +25% damage... or could be. Enemies have damage mitigation, but in most cases it's easy enough to calculate and you'll feel the extra damage going out, even if it's not quite +25%.

For PvP, you're dealing with other players who have their own mitigation values and your +25% outgoing damage could get whittled down to +12.5% pretty easily.

thunderwell wrote: »

In PvE, this really isn't an issue.
In PvP, however, it gives the players whom have 10-12 hours a day, 5-7 days a week the advantage of their stat boosts.
The players that have to work full time (40+ hours per week, 5+ days a week) are mad because they don't have the time to grind the extra stats/CP. These players (from what I'm aware of) want CP removed because they think PvP should be more skill oriented, not about how much better your stats are. Of course, there should be some grinding involved, but not to the point of losing or sacrificing one's job, friends, etc. These players have to balance their real life with leisure time.

I will not even touch PvP, solely because I'm going to be at such a disadvantage in the beginning, progress will be moot.

Even then, the actual impact of the system is pretty minor in comparison to the raw gear improvements you get through ranking up.

If you're at VR1, you're basically a level 50 character. You have 13 more levels of gear and then you're done? Well... not so much, no.

When you're crafting at non-vet, gear is only craftable at even levels. So, You can make level 2, level 36, level 40, but not level 45 or 47.

When you get to vet, gear advances statistically at the same rate, but it's delivered every single rank. So while Vet 1 gear is statistically identical to level 50. Vet 2 gear would be identical to level 52 gear (if it existed). So, when you're going up against VR14s, you're dealing with someone who's got (at the very least) level 78 gear.

Crafting adds an invisible vet rank to it's value (for now). And each color upgrade (White -> Green -> Blue -> Purple -> Gold) adds a vet rank. On the whole that will raise the equivalent gear level to ~level 88 gear. (That's not how the game calculates this, but as an illustration.)

And that gear advantage is huge. But, for a lot of people, it's easier to point at the CP, and say, "no, that's the fault, it's not that the person I was fighting was effectively 28 levels over me." Also, the raw stat value from that gear dwarfs the CP system.

My VR2's weapon damage with a bow out is 1132, my V14's is 1853. I can do specialized stat evaluations if you really want, but, it's not the CP. Even if you take the highest damage CP loadout possible on that VR2, you could not get her damage up to match the base damage (without CP) on the V14. (Also, no star directly affects the reported weapon damage stat, it applies to attacks that use it. Hence why I'm not talking about despecing them for the purpose of this conversation.)

SkinnyDG wrote: »

Let me start! Players that have more free time to spend in the game become stronger than others that don't have as much free time. The players that don't have that kind of free time still want to be as strong as the players that do have free time.

Yea, if you have a job or go to school or both...CP doesn't seem like such a great idea.