Stamina Sorc

Rayste · August 2015

Figured this needed its' own thread and this is the real reason behind the balance issues:

I will be very forward regarding this subject as some of my guildies were discussing it in mumble the other night:

Sorcerer has always been the mage/magicka archetype.. someone got it in their head that they wanted to play a stamina? ( if that is even such a thing hah, think about it sometimes) version of said archetype because ESO is PLAY THE WAY YOU WANT..... and here we sit.

They are in the early stages of making this last 'magicka only' archetype work with stamina.

Man o man this will be interesting. We all know the dev that shall not be named probably doesn't play the game competitively and I have heard rumors that he mains a night blade. Good luck!

Edited to prevent naming and shaming policy.

ginoboehm · August 2015

what gave you the idea that your oppinion (or remark) needs another thread in addition to the 20 sorc-stamina threads existing already? What reply do you expect there are many reasons to play a stamina based sorc (enemies use it and it is in lore too) beside of it beeing a blast in the past (it was very strong in 1.5 for pve and usable for pvp). i don't want my magicka sorc losing abilities because they are made into stamina morphs (like they neutered my magicka melee nb because they wanted to make stamina nb fotm) but some stuff could support stamina because it is not used by the current magicka sorc playstyle and other stuff could scale with eiter max magicka / max stamina without beein problematic. for 1.7 stamina sorcs seem in a good place already pvp powerwise it could use a utility buff but otherwise if you play pts and test it it is strong already.

Rayste · August 2015

ginoboehm wrote: »

what gave you the idea that your oppinion (or remark) needs another thread in addition to the 20 sorc-stamina threads existing already? What reply do you expect there are many reasons to play a stamina based sorc (enemies use it and it is in lore too) beside of it beeing a blast in the past (it was very strong in 1.5 for pve and usable for pvp). i don't want my magicka sorc losing abilities because they are made into stamina morphs (like they neutered my magicka melee nb because they wanted to make stamina nb fotm) but some stuff could support stamina because it is not used by the current magicka sorc playstyle and other stuff could scale with eiter max magicka / max stamina without beein problematic. for 1.7 stamina sorcs seem in a good place already pvp powerwise it could use a utility buff but otherwise if you play pts and test it it is strong already.

L2R issue: I wasn't saying I disagreed with bringing stam sorcs up to par... I was just saying why they aren't. Thanks for the bump.

Huggalump · August 2015

Rayste wrote: »

Figured this needed its' own thread and this is the real reason behind the balance issues:

I will be very forward regarding this subject as some of my guildies were discussing it in mumble the other night:

Sorcerer has always been the mage/magicka archetype.. someone got it in their head that they wanted to play a stamina? ( if that is even such a thing hah, think about it sometimes) version of said archetype because ESO is PLAY THE WAY YOU WANT..... and here we sit.

They are in the early stages of making this last 'magicka only' archetype work with stamina.

Man o man this will be interesting. We all know the dev that shall not be named probably doesn't play the game competitively and I have heard rumors that he mains a night blade. Good luck!

Edited to prevent naming and shaming policy.

This is the same post you made in my thread, but it doesn't make any sense in the context of my thread. So I'll respond here.

Your post says the main problem is that it's a new problem and the devs haven't had time to adjust to it yet. That's simply untrue. Stam sorcs have been around since ESO began. Also, you mention the "mage/magicka" archetype but then ignore that the spellsword archetype has also always been around RPGs and, more importantly, even encouraged in Elder Scrolls games.

Stam sorcs were fine under the soft-cap system. The removal of caps broke stam sorcs. The devs quickly promised to address the issue, and we're still waiting.

And about the side issue you hinted at of how silly it is for a sorcerer to be stamina, I can see where you're coming from. I'd much rather be using my magicka for magic stuff instead of using my stamina for magic stuff. However, again, with soft caps removed, this is the system we have to work with.

Furthermore, I've seen a lot of people say that sorcs should using stamina because stamina can't make magic. I don't understand. There must be some serious cognitive dissonance going on for people to say that while continuing to play a game where every other class uses stamina to perform magical abilities.

Zlater · August 2015

Rayste wrote: »

Figured this needed its' own thread and this is the real reason behind the balance issues:

I will be very forward regarding this subject as some of my guildies were discussing it in mumble the other night:

Sorcerer has always been the mage/magicka archetype.. someone got it in their head that they wanted to play a stamina? ( if that is even such a thing hah, think about it sometimes) version of said archetype because ESO is PLAY THE WAY YOU WANT..... and here we sit.

They are in the early stages of making this last 'magicka only' archetype work with stamina.

Man o man this will be interesting. We all know the dev that shall not be named probably doesn't play the game competitively and I have heard rumors that he mains a night blade. Good luck!

Edited to prevent naming and shaming policy.

I'm just going to ignore the troll above my post or three above or something xD

I played a stam sorc in 1.6 and prior and I really loved the idea that a player could play a spell sword type build and be effective. I've loved the lightning and how cool it looked and I thought Khats and Kirito was as kewl as this word's mispelling.

I love that I can finally play a stam sorc again, but in all honesty, its not quite there, infact the whole class is 'not quite anywhere' anymore. I've been messing around with stam sorcs and the DPS is through the roof. The biggest struggle is with resource managment ofc, trying to keep the stamina up while doing deeps is hard, especially because we rely on so many buff abilities to do the deeps with and there isn't any decent way we can regen stam without having to stop combat for a dark deal fest. But you know, very much 'almost there' indeed. I think it might just be enough to go live with. #err...justenough

Yolokin_Swagonborn · August 2015

Been testing the stamina sorc on PTS and I can say that it is still in no way competitive with other stamina builds.

Yes you can stack a ton of weapon damage that leaves you with no survivability or sustain. The main problem is that the best sorcerer passives that support stam require you to slot abilities you either don't have room for or don't scale with stamina.

To get the 30% stamina regen passive (from the daedric summoning tree) for example, you need to slot a summoning skill. Bound armaments would be the first choice but that takes up two spaces on your bar and still doesn't do much. Yes, 8% max stam is a big deal but you have very few other abilities you can slot to take advantage of it.

You can slot ward, but since the wards are scaled with magicka, you will only get a 2-3k ward. Not worth it.

Not even mentioning the awful pets.

The other good passive is Expert mage that gives weapon and spell power. Again, in order to maximize this would would need one weapon skill, lets say steel tornado, then fill your bar with sorcerer skills. This is great for a zergy bomb group but you couldn't stay alive soloing with that build.

Dark Deal is anemic in PvP and heals your for only 1.5k. Which is nothing

Crit surge has been improved a bit. They reduced the terrible cooldown and excluded DOTs so now it seems like you get the heals you would expect to get. It works great for PvE.

The problem is that in PvP, everyone is using shields or blocking or has some sort of mitigation. A 5k heal off a 10k wrecking blow crit is awesome but don't expect to get that very often in a fight against other players.
Here is what typically happens.

The healing ward ate most of the damage and instead of getting a 1.5k heal, i got a heal for only 200. Fighting a magicka sorcerer as a stam sorc would be suicide if you tried to rely on crit surge. You would never heal from anything.

I also tried the stamina morph of lighting form. Very underwhelming. Not enough DPS to use stamina on it. Lightning form is a utility, not DPS. now, in order to keep my speed and armor buffs up, I have to constantly spend precious stamina if I use that morph. A utility spell for a stam build should cost magicka so you can use it as a magicka dump. More on that in the link below.

The main issue right now, and historically, is that stamina sorcerer lacks good skills and passives that synergize well with stamina builds.

They also lack a powerful survivability, resource return, or damage mitigation tool that every other class has. Again I broke it all down in my post below.

Fortunately there are some great suggestions on how to really fix stamina sorcerer but its nowhere near ready to be considered a serioud endgame build yet. Sorcerer Stamina Builds vs the stamina builds of other classes: Why Sorcerer doesn't match up.)

MrGrimey · August 2015

I don't know... Seems like Stam sorc has the best passives out of any stamina class. I guess you guys just want a shiny stamina based spell though

Ahzek · August 2015

I dont think 20% stam regen (for slotting a *** skill), 2% wep dmg (per *** skill slotted), 5% cost redutcion and 15% ult cost reduction can qualify as the best stamina build passives, at least not as long as they are not supported by actually usefull stamina skills, that make slotting sorc skills worthwhile to support them.
Nightblade passives, combined with effective utility and damage spells look far more appealing tbh.

Jar_Ek · August 2015

Nightblades get armour/spell resist that sorcerers have to slot an active for, increased health, stamina regeneration just for using the best stamina damage ability. They also get additional crit and crit damage, plus a stealth bonus from passives.

DKs get improved block, heal in received and health regeneration, resource recovery on ultimate use, ultimate recovery and some stamina recovery.

Sorcerers get some cost reductions, a stamina and health regeneration bonus, and 2% wpn power per skill slotted.

Not sure about Templars.

I would say that sorcerers passives are now roughly in the same ballpark as other classes for stamina builds... the actives however are not.

However I also think that most of the classes stamina options are poor and zos need to do a 3rd morph overhaul for all classes asap.

Dyride · August 2015

For active abilities, I think the damage from Unstable Clannfear needs to scale with Stamina and weapon power because it has PHYSICAL damage.

This gives an alternative to Bound Armaments to get the Daedric Protection passive , helps Sorc Tank dps and also is a good survival skill that can't be spammed cause it takes 2/3rds of the average stam builds magicka.

The tanking aspect of the Clannfear would still be viable for magicka Sorc tanks because they can pull DPS from else where plus are more able to recast.

Honestly that is all I'm going to advocate for anymore, the class has gotten better but just this logical change would go a long ways.

FENGRUSH · August 2015

You have to understand that taking advantage of sorc passives when playing a stam sorc literally involves handicapping your build. You are trading off useful skills you need to not just survive, but to make kills possible, in order to gain some small passives. Do you want to have an execute or some stam regen? Do you want that CC or 8% max stam that you cant use with food because you have to run drink to stay in the fight.

Havent played PTS much and already can translate most of these changes. Used my live build on PTS and it was already night and day the amount of weaknesses present. The only hope is everyone else is a lot weaker too - but dont see that happening.

TBois · August 2015

Stam sorcs were beasts when we had highest weapon dmg (rally and crit surge stacking), crit surge had no cooldown and healed off dots, and we could actually bolt a few times.

Stam sorcs were placed into the position where we are now through gameplay changes and magicka sorc nerfs.

Man I miss my hist bark, crit dot heals build

SturgeHammer · August 2015

Rayste wrote: »

Sorcerer has always been the mage/magicka archetype.. someone got it in their head that they wanted to play a stamina?

I have to point out that there have been Stam Sorcs since day one of release. Someone didn't just "get it in their head" to make one, it's been around for a while. Believe it or not, players of other ES games actually started playing this game with the expectation that there would be support for builds that are good at both physical combat And magic, like every ES game has supported in the past. Also note that most of the changes on pts are actually big Nerfs to Stam Sorc, so if a future without Stam Sorcs is what you want then just let ZOS keep "supporting" us.

Weng · August 2015

Is this a role playing thread

?

Anyway, again someone is confusing Wizards (that have been omitted from this game by ZOS) and Sorcerers (that can even use strength instead of intelligence as base stat for spells in a later version of DnD - real atrocities compared to Wizards).

My opinion is that ZOS somehow lost control over the whole pvp balancing process and stamina based sorcerers are just one of the casualties.